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Jeff Wars: The Rich Get Richer

  1. Animal Kingdom tgr's Avatar
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    A stroke of joy, surely.
    Turning pretend colourblind angels from spaceship to madship samurais, one post at a time.

  2. The Empire never ended July's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    A stroke of joy, surely.
    I think Bob Dylan said it best.

    [URL="http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12609601"][ 2012.03.02 08:32:51 ] Kurth Ren > whereas love squad avoids any engagement that is not a onesided curbstomp[/URL]
    [URL="http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=11888507"][ 2012.03.02 08:34:08 ] Kurth Ren > but you are literally arguing with the inventor of broski, you aren't going to win a debate about broski history with me[/URL]
    [URL="http://unidan.net/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=1876"][ 2012.03.02 08:40:48 ] Kurth Ren > it's filled with bitter faggots who would rather be slaves to finns and run at the first sign of a fight then go on ops[/URL]

  3. King Dong Venetian Tar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    A stroke of joy, surely.
    Definitely that.

    I almost came when PL and GSF almost killed a Wyvern together, only to find out it was a blue of PL's.
    Twitter: @Vene_T - RIP Vile Rat.

  4. The Viking King Agathor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    A stroke of joy, surely.
    Yes, Grath is known for his massive strokes of joy.

  5. Oooooh yeeeah! Doink9731's Avatar
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    Support Good Posting & Healthy Moderation! Send "Walter Stine" ISK in game.

  6. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Perseus Kallistratos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffraider View Post
    PK IS AN ENIGMA WRAPPED IN A RIDDLE

    HAHA JK HE A RAPE VICTIM WRAPPED IN A RAPE VICTIM BLANKET ROFL
    BL smugposting and NC. smugposting I expect after killing some dreads.

    Didn't see you on field, BF3 was your true calling last night


  7. The Viking King Agathor's Avatar
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    Mittens is sitting on a almost identical power structure as Molle.

    He has his guy in Fountain, EXE, MC(Almost all of it back together, Mynas+Seleene=BFF), random buffer pet, unspoken nap to not fuck with Russians.

    Plus he has the Tech cartel. If he would band together with AAA to destroy Nulli, then I would be back home in IAC.

  8. Glimmung Dental Floss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanMan View Post
    BL smugposting and NC. smugposting I expect after killing some dreads.

    Didn't see you on field, BF3 was your true calling last night

    Dude, I will smugpost after killing a fucking rifter, don't expect anything otherwise. About 2 years ago, I literally smugposted about killing a gang of bombers.

  9. The Viking King Agathor's Avatar
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    You fuckers are even blue to Lady Scarlet...

  10. We're Only in It for the Money pinoyzzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agathor View Post
    You fuckers are even blue to Lady Scarlet...
    Really?


  11. Monalisa Overdrive Mfume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanMan View Post
    Didn't see you on field, BF3 was your true calling last night
    Jeff was there.
    Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.

  12. Don't try to solve serious matters in the middle of the night Zagdul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by July View Post
    Why not balance tech and make it so the other moons become worth fighting over too?
    Lets say... Hypothetically...

    There's an equivalent moon mineral in the south (Mercury for example) and it was a 2nd, just as valuable bottleneck. What point would -A- have for coming north to pick fights?

  13. I fight for the users Dysphonia's Avatar
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    As much as it pains me to agree with Zagdul, he's right. The thing is, look at everything thats happened in the last few months; how much of it has happened because tech is so valuable? I'll give you a hint; its a fairly large amount. There needs to be something better than the rest; the main issue with tech, for me, is that it is so much more valuable, and concentrated in a single half of the eve map.

  14. I'm Only in It for the Money Grim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdul View Post
    Lets say... Hypothetically...

    There's an equivalent moon mineral in the south (Mercury for example) and it was a 2nd, just as valuable bottleneck. What point would -A- have for coming north to pick fights?
    So EVE should become king of the hill in space?
    If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
    Fear the KKM

  15. Don't try to solve serious matters in the middle of the night Zagdul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim View Post
    So EVE should become king of the hill in space?
    I've only been playing eve for 2.5 years, can you tell me a time before the 2.5 years that I've been playing when it wasn't?

  16. I'm Only in It for the Money Grim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdul View Post
    I've only been playing eve for 2.5 years, can you tell me a time before the 2.5 years that I've been playing when it wasn't?
    Example: any war in the south.

    Edit: And any war in the drone regions. And the endgame of the forever war against BOB (no tech in fountain/Delve/Querious and no one moved into most of it after IT died).
    If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
    Fear the KKM

  17. Don't try to solve serious matters in the middle of the night Zagdul's Avatar
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    Let me expand on that further.

    This is an MMO. In this MMO there should be a supreme resource that is bottlenecked into an area of the map. IMO, I think tech is working as intended. I've said this before and got all kinds of lovely comments for it, but if they made the bottleneck somewhere else, do you honestly think the CFC would stay where they are and allow someone else to have that income?

    I know I wouldn't.

    And if every sector of the map had 'equivilant' resources or a resource just as valuable, what would the point of war be? There needs to be ghettos, there needs to be the middle class, then, there needs to be the space rich motherfuckers.

  18. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Opti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dysphonia View Post
    As much as it pains me to agree with Zagdul, he's right. The thing is, look at everything thats happened in the last few months; how much of it has happened because tech is so valuable? I'll give you a hint; its a fairly large amount. There needs to be something better than the rest; the main issue with tech, for me, is that it is so much more valuable, and concentrated in a single half of the eve map.
    TRIPLE OF A's I am here to extend to you my respect that you living in the barren wastelands of the south, are able to bring it to the scumbag northies who are drowning in technetium

    It makes me happy in the pants that there are people in this game who fight for whats right and dont break down and cry that PL gets 770bil/m, and the CFCs pull in 3tril/m combined, yeah exactly what the fuck is space monkeys doing with that 300bil/m they get, ffs man its a travesty!

    keep your non jelly head high friends

  19. Don't try to solve serious matters in the middle of the night Zagdul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim View Post
    Example: any war in the south.
    Yeah... Solar gets bored and decides to invade -A-, -A- runs for Stain so their k/d ratio doesn't go south.

    Rinse, Repeat.

    e: bad at spelling

  20. I'm Only in It for the Money Grim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdul View Post
    Yeah... Solar gets board and decides to invade -A-, -A- runs for Stain so their k/d ratio doesn't go south.

    Rinse, Repeat.
    Not sure if your agreeing with me or using this as a counter argument.

    But no one has invaded AAA, or pretty much any other southern alliance for their amazing wealth and superb space. At least not in the 2 years you and I have seen.
    If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
    Fear the KKM

  21. Don't try to solve serious matters in the middle of the night Zagdul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim View Post
    Not sure if your agreeing with me or using this as a counter argument.

    But no one has invaded AAA, or pretty much any other southern alliance for their amazing wealth and superb space. At least not in the 2 years you and I have seen.
    There are 2 reasons wars happen anywhere but the North:

    1. Slumlords want to expand their rental empire.
    2. Old Grudge.

    Otherwise it's bored people looking to get a fight. I can't believe Dominion Sov is ~still~ in the state it's in.

    However, every year... bloc's form to invade the north and the greatest wars in EVE take place. Why would CCP tempt fate and change this?

  22. Prominent Author Headblast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdul View Post
    There are 2 reasons wars happen anywhere but the North:

    1. Slumlords want to expand their rental empire.
    2. Old Grudge.

    Otherwise it's bored people looking to get a fight. I can't believe Dominion Sov is ~still~ in the state it's in.

    However, every year... bloc's form to invade the north and the greatest wars in EVE take place. Why would CCP tempt fate and change this?
    I honestly doubt that there will be any powerblocks making a proper, massive move towards getting a place in the North. Despite -A- and Nulli currently doing stuff, I have a hard time seeing a region and it's moons being taken from a CFC entity and replaced with a non-CFC entity. I simply cannot see who would be able to beat CFC in US time zone without PL and NC. helping (if that is even enough after a SOTG), and we all know how it went for the last dudes who tried taking on CFC. 3-4 months of sov warfare with limited fights, and we bailed and lost what we had.

  23. Inconstant Moon John Caffeine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdul View Post
    Lets say... Hypothetically...

    There's an equivalent moon mineral in the south (Mercury for example) and it was a 2nd, just as valuable bottleneck. What point would -A- have for coming north to pick fights?
    Why shouldn't there be a reason to fight anywhere else on the map?

    I'm not saying Eve shouldn't be "king of the hill" in space, but there should be more than one hill to fight over, and they should be spread out all over the map.

  24. Piper in the Woods Consentual Horseplay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdul View Post
    fights?
    You need a better reason?

  25. "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Warhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Headblast View Post
    I honestly doubt that there will be any powerblocks making a proper, massive move towards getting a place in the North. Despite -A- and Nulli currently doing stuff, I have a hard time seeing a region and it's moons being taken from a CFC entity and replaced with a non-CFC entity. I simply cannot see who would be able to beat CFC in US time zone without PL and NC. helping (if that is even enough after a SOTG), and we all know how it went for the last dudes who tried taking on CFC. 3-4 months of sov warfare with limited fights, and we bailed and lost what we had.
    People said the same thing about the NC. Just sayin'.

  26. SHADOO OUTSIDE NOW progodlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomasM View Post
    As usual, some footage from that lowsec:


    Holy fuck who frapsed that? get a fucking drone engage hotkey you massive faggot/noob. Watching that video was like 6 year old nephew and all his friends at their soccer games, jesus christ.

    A hint, the default key is F, its simple. So much for elite I guess.

  27. Inconstant Moon Prodnovick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Caffeine View Post
    Why shouldn't there be a reason to fight anywhere else on the map?

    I'm not saying Eve shouldn't be "king of the hill" in space, but there should be more than one hill to fight over, and they should be spread out all over the map.
    Tech is pretty spread out. How many regions have tech? Must be at least 10.

    I agree that there should be some tweaking to make the R64 moons more valuable again but at it's core tech is working as intended.

  28. Impostor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dysphonia View Post
    As much as it pains me to agree with Zagdul, he's right. The thing is, look at everything thats happened in the last few months; how much of it has happened because tech is so valuable? I'll give you a hint; its a fairly large amount. There needs to be something better than the rest; the main issue with tech, for me, is that it is so much more valuable, and concentrated in a single half of the eve map.
    If you ask -A- they are totally there for the fights.

    ?No really.

  29. "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warhead View Post
    People said the same thing about the NC. Just sayin'.
    the nc never had a proper fleet setup, just insane kitchen sink fleet numbers, Goons and co have numerous fleet concept that work with their numbers (also some non retarded FC, not counting dbrb in that statement ofc), and that make a huge difference.

  30. Inconstant Moon syndic thrass's Avatar
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    We have a large red watercraft that really makes us not the NC

  31. Inconstant Moon John Caffeine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prodnovick View Post
    Tech is pretty spread out. How many regions have tech? Must be at least 10.

    I agree that there should be some tweaking to make the R64 moons more valuable again but at it's core tech is working as intended.
    I really wouldn't mind it if only 10 regions in the game had a high concentration of valuable moons, it's just that they're all in the same corner of the map.

    I'd much rather see 10 valuable regions spread out around the map, each one surrounded by less valuable regions. Or put all the really good moons in NPC nullsec and lowsec, which is where people are most likely to fight over moons anyway.

  32. The Alien Mind Vik Reddy's Avatar
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    Well it's been about a year after the fall of the NC. No one seems to have benefited most by it than the CFC (read between the lines), not that they are the only ones that did. Having been in the NC, I can say a major aspect of having that coalition was holding all that tech and discouraging outside forces from taking it, or even attempting. That was the time of the supercap era and also the biggest dogpiling of supers and titans we have seen in the game at that point. Now we have the CFC coalition doing the same thing, but under the pretense of "Oh we're still red standings to some dudes, that makes us not NC". Then came the OTEC coalition, which is just bullshit for another coalition - a pact revolving around tech.

    Having several high-value targets in several regions of the map that's not concentrated in one pole will create more conflicts and not encourage the large unbeatable blob to take form, that everyone keeps complaining about. There will still be a blob coalition, but there will be reason for new smaller blobs and new blood to move into the other areas of space. That might be the long term consequence of spreading commodities around but can you say that's a bad thing?

  33. Inconstant Moon syndic thrass's Avatar
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    I must say, one of the things that has always baffled me about moon minerals isn't anything about tech all being in the north or the bottleneck or any of that. What has always baffled me is why the most expensive (by far) moon mineral and the one that wars are about and all that is an R32 instead of an R64. It just makes literally no sense.

  34. Animal Kingdom tgr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Caffeine View Post
    I'd much rather see 10 valuable regions spread out around the map, each one surrounded by less valuable regions. Or put all the really good moons in NPC nullsec and lowsec, which is where people are most likely to fight over moons anyway.
    Kind of like back before CCP fucked up everything?
    Turning pretend colourblind angels from spaceship to madship samurais, one post at a time.

  35. Inconstant Moon syndic thrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    Kind of like back before CCP fucked up everything?
    Back in 2002, the good old days...

  36. The church of Batman the redeemer needs you Nicky D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdul View Post
    There are 2 reasons wars happen anywhere but the North:

    1. Slumlords want to expand their rental empire.
    2. Old Grudge.

    Otherwise it's bored people looking to get a fight. I can't believe Dominion Sov is ~still~ in the state it's in.

    However, every year... bloc's form to invade the north and the greatest wars in EVE take place. Why would CCP tempt fate and change this?
    Greatest wars take place in the south; Both Catch wars, etc.

  37. Honey, Don't You Want a Man Like Me Elektrea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progodlegend View Post
    Holy fuck who frapsed that? get a fucking drone engage hotkey you massive faggot/noob. Watching that video was like 6 year old nephew and all his friends at their soccer games, jesus christ.

    A hint, the default key is F, its simple. So much for elite I guess.
    You were trying to play the 'chill, everything is going to plan, got to look witty for alliance morale' character.

    Its about time you let it all out.

  38. Glimmung Dental Floss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdul View Post
    Let me expand on that further.

    This is an MMO. In this MMO there should be a supreme resource that is bottlenecked into an area of the map. IMO, I think tech is working as intended. I've said this before and got all kinds of lovely comments for it, but if they made the bottleneck somewhere else, do you honestly think the CFC would stay where they are and allow someone else to have that income?

    I know I wouldn't.

    And if every sector of the map had 'equivilant' resources or a resource just as valuable, what would the point of war be? There needs to be ghettos, there needs to be the middle class, then, there needs to be the space rich motherfuckers.
    Seriously, Zagdul? How can you honestly think tech is working as intended? In his CSM campaigning, Mittens stated bluntly that he thinks the tech bottleneck is ridiculous. Elise said the same thing last year in his run up to CSM 6 after PL had already taken all the Venal tech. And CCP has agreed with them -- it's ridiculous. I understand what everyone says that a valuable resource generates a reason for fights but 1.1 trillion a month in revenue? Think about those numbers for a second and then think about the income of a sizable sov holding alliance like Nulli who has a bit of rental income but no tech.

    It's a pretty basic principle that more money can be made through cooperation than through competition. That's exactly what's happened with OTEC, the CFC before it, and the NC before that. Only every time the agreements have been made, the blue list has gotten longer and longer. There are some who still don't hold any tech and would like to get a piece of the pie, but honestly, if anyone believes that -A- or Nulli have any chance at holding the tech they do manage to take for any significant period of time, they're beyond retarded. The will of the people who want to dominate the resource is too strong, their numbers too many and there is no one in the game who can compete with that sort of organization.

    John Caffeine's idea of 10 valuable regions spread evenly around the game and surrounded by less valuable regions makes much more sense than this moronic idea of putting a Mount Everest of Gold where the only thing someone has to do get a slice is turtle up. But maybe the reason you think things are the way they were meant to be is because you happen to be the leader of an alliance that's part of the tech cartel.

  39. Animal Kingdom tgr's Avatar
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    Listen, dental, you do remember that this "10 valuable regions" business was exactly what we had (maybe not 10 regions, but they were spread more evenly than they are now) before CCP fucked up everything by reordering the usage pattern of literally every T2 material, right? And that CCP was told, several months in advance that they were fucking retarded and that technetium was going to become a huge bottleneck?

    Given that, either CCP were idiots and remained ignorant until well after the changes went live, they willfully ignored the warnings because "what do the playerbase know anyways?", or they did it specifically to get someone to man up and kill off the NC.

    Choose your poison.
    Turning pretend colourblind angels from spaceship to madship samurais, one post at a time.

  40. Monalisa Overdrive Mfume's Avatar
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    I like tech and how it's shaped EVE. Anyone who actually has to generate content does, because it's basically "move north, hit tech (or tech holders), get fights." And it's actually (barely) valuable enough that dudes keep showing up for it, even if odds are looking PRETTY GRIM.
    Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.

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    I've been deep-throating Diablo cock all week, anything fun happen?

  42. Monalisa Overdrive Mfume's Avatar
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    But hey, let's risk 200B in tengus, caps and supers over this 3B/month (or w/e it winds up post nerf) R64 moon. This makes sense.
    Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.

  43. Inconstant Moon syndic thrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dental Floss View Post
    Words
    I am inclined to agree with Zagdul to a point. I don't think it's working as intended. You are right, something is fucked up, but it is fucked up to a degree. I think there needs to be some bottleneck, I dont want R32s worth X and R64s worth 2X. I think the gap between Tech and the next best mineral (Dysprosium, I guess?) is too large. It's one of those principal vs practice things. The idea that SOMETHING needs to be worth a significant amount more than the other somethings is the right idea, but Tech is worth significantly too much more than the others.

    I generally stay out of arguments like this because I'm p stupid when it comes to the Tech arguments, but what Zagdul said here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdul View Post
    This is an MMO. In this MMO there should be a supreme resource that is bottlenecked into an area of the map.... if they made the bottleneck somewhere else, do you honestly think the CFC would stay where they are and allow someone else to have that income?
    I think is true to an extent. I don't think Tech is working as intended but I don't disagree with the IDEA driving the bottleneck and all.

  44. King Dong Ron Mexxico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progodlegend View Post
    Holy fuck who frapsed that? get a fucking drone engage hotkey you massive faggot/noob. Watching that video was like 6 year old nephew and all his friends at their soccer games, jesus christ.

    A hint, the default key is F, its simple. So much for elite I guess.
    hotkeys don't work so hot with bombers

  45. I fight for the users Dysphonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mfume View Post
    But hey, let's risk 200B in tengus, caps and supers over this 3B/month (or w/e it winds up post nerf) R64 moon. This makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mfume View Post
    I like tech and how it's shaped EVE. Anyone who actually has to generate content does, because it's basically "move north, hit tech (or tech holders), get fights." And it's actually (barely) valuable enough that dudes keep showing up for it, even if odds are looking PRETTY GRIM.
    I see what you're saying and all, but you're missing the point that as things stand, only one side can afford to really do that on anything even resembling a regular basis. We see shitty alliances like nulli not even letting members loot wrecks, and then we look at the CFC, where many alliances are rolling out tengu reimbursements and other such things, and actually, it isn't working. And then eventually it'll all just stagnate until someone dies and we all canabalise the corpse.

  46. King Dong Ron Mexxico's Avatar
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    people die while looting wrecks. say no

    ask cern

  47. Sigs are too damn expensive. Elo's Avatar
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    why would you loot wrecks, that drives the price of tech down

  48. King Dong Rer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mfume View Post
    But hey, let's risk 200B in tengus, caps and supers over this 3B/month (or w/e it winds up post nerf) R64 moon. This makes sense.
    Quick Note: I don't know shit about Tech, never fought over a moon, so complete outside perspective here.

    Couldn't you argue though that if Tech Moon's income rates aren't balanced out that eventually "non-tech" entities won't be able to bridge the ISK gap to continually fight over them? (For all I know this might already be the case.) Like Dysphonia already said, there's no fucking way entities like -A- or Nulli will be able to continuously field massive Tengu or Capital fleets if they don't start to see an increase in income. It just isn't feasible (again, from my perspective). Either that or they're putting in a fuckload more work to try to even the odds.

    Now if they had their own shit to fight over, maybe a different Moon Resource, or whatever the fuck, in their own regions, then we'd still have plenty of fights, possibly more reasonable incomes for those who are "King of the (Less Ridiculous) Hill" and maybe, just maybe, smaller blue lists.

    Maybe I'm living in some stupid naive dream-EVE, but I fail to see any downside to re-balancing Tech and creating significantly more, smaller, hills to fight over.

  49. Animal Kingdom tgr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rer View Post
    Maybe I'm living in some stupid naive dream-EVE, but I fail to see any downside to re-balancing Tech and creating significantly more, smaller, hills to fight over.
    CCP could've reverted the moongoo usage profile back to what it was prior to whichever the fuck expansion they fucked with it, and it would be infinitely better than today's situation.

    Then again, that's more or less what the majority of the playerbase has been yelling for. I guess it looks like we're going to have to force the issue.
    Turning pretend colourblind angels from spaceship to madship samurais, one post at a time.

  50. The Viking King Agathor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotch View Post
    I've been deep-throating Diablo cock all week, anything fun happen?
    Goons need more cleptokrats, the lack of internal drama is frightening.

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