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Exploits in WHs

  1. The Mote in God's Eye R0ze's Avatar
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    Not sure if allready posted somewhere on kugu but here you go: http://www.massively.com/2010/09/17/...ble-advantage/

  2. Super Moderator John Smith's Avatar
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    Most likely a desync.

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    Excellence

  4. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Mr Coloredshirt's Avatar
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    Have fun getting banned into oblivion faggots.

  5. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Quesa's Avatar
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    The article is posted on SHC by a R&K guy who figured out what was happening.

    Basically, since the WH has -tracking and shit, they were remote tracking disrupting themselves to push the numbers negative, thus giving them perfect tracing, max optimal - etc etc.

    http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/v...ic.php?t=36885

    It's an interesting read and more :CCP:.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coloredshirt View Post
    Have fun getting banned into oblivion faggots.
    I really don't see this happening because it's a CCP programming blunder. They'll likely try to hotfix it before officially calling it an exploit.

  6. Crashlander Kythren's Avatar
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    also while they claim to have a go from a GM via petition, Zymurgist just locked the eve-o thread for explaining an exploit.
    typical unsigned int failure.

  7. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Mr Coloredshirt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quesa View Post
    I really don't see this happening because it's a CCP programming blunder. They'll likely try to hotfix it before officially calling it an exploit.
    Gather this p much tantamount to the ferrogel thing, and dem germans got banned.

  8. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Quesa's Avatar
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    Why are you surprised they locked a thread discussing an exploit in the game? Also, I can't see them banning someone for using it and I can totally see a GM stuffing it under the pillow for a fix another day due to it only affecting maybe 1(?) system that actually has all the bonuses/debuffs required to make it work. I don't know how deep a problem it is to fix something like this due to my limited programming experience.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Coloredshirt View Post
    Gather this p much tantamount to the ferrogel thing, and dem germans got banned.
    Some may not see a difference but I do. The ferrogel thing affected the entire manufacturing and market community whereas this really can only affect 1(?) WH system to a limited capacity.

  9. The Gripping Hand
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    6 cataclysmic variable C6 systems, and someone on SHC mentioned that with the Curse/Pilgrim bonus, you can make it work in 85 w-space systems or something.

    it's obviously not an intended game feature. Whether they'll be banned, though, probably depends on random chance and lead GM mood.

  10. The Mote in God's Eye R0ze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quesa View Post
    Some may not see a difference but I do. The ferrogel thing affected the entire manufacturing and market community whereas this really can only affect 1(?) WH system to a limited capacity.
    Depends on how you look at it - if few (or lots / since the group in question isnt that small) persons gain infinite isk source (in this case by shooting at 250km some sleeper rats) of course its not the same AFK level as with the ferrogel but still it can skew market which affects everyone for good (everyone liked the cheaper isogens before the icemacroer banhammer hit) or bad ..

    But of course better just wait when either it appears somwhere on patchnotes or "our logs show nothing" before split hairs about such thing .. not the first and prolly not the last time.

  11. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Arrador's Avatar
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    Why is R&K getting props for discovering it?
    [Arrador] possesses a considerable understanding of ship configurations, strengths and weakness. He gives clear and purposeful instructions, is good at taking advantage of the fleet-composition he's dealt, and never loses sight of the main goal: fun. This, paired with an excellent tolerance for strong drink gives him an almost Churchillian capability to win, despite being completely pissed on booze most of the fleet operation.

  12. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Quesa's Avatar
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    I think they are getting props for a)treating it as a challenge instead of emo-poasting "OMG PEEPS IN HUR R EXPOITZORING!" and b)breaking the news after figuring out how it was done.

  13. "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Raidek's Avatar
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    One of many wormhole mechanics broken since it launched. There are many more.

  14. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Mr Coloredshirt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raidek View Post
    One of many wormhole mechanics broken since it launched. There are many more.
    Do tell

  15. The Theory and Practice of Teleportation GreenDaemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raidek View Post
    One of many wormhole mechanics broken since it launched. There are many more.
    This is just another reason why they should hurry up and fix the lag alread.... wait, shit, wrong thread.

  16. Kugutsumen Murr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quesa View Post
    I think they are getting props for a)treating it as a challenge instead of emo-poasting "OMG PEEPS IN HUR R EXPOITZORING!"
    It's not a simple matter though, as Aperture Harmonics has become the no1 wormhole entity in the game. Only the fact they used that very system as their capital system makes it quite obvious they didn't just discover it, or they weren't intending to stop using it.

    And I was wondering how they became so successful in such a short time.


    ~~~~GIMMIE +REP+ GIMMIE~~~~

  17. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Quesa's Avatar
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    That, in and of itself, can't be the only reason they aresuccessful. I'm sure they got in there and successfully completed C6's before they decided to move in or before they realized the funky ass game mechanic. Simply stating that they got where they are strictly because of this :CCP: is a bit naive.

    The amount of e-spurge on the forums is a bit retarded and is overblowing the actual damage. R&K are trying to treat this as a challenge, they know about it so they are on equal footing. CCP should have fixed this when it was reported, another example of EXCELLENCE by their Q&A/Dev departments. THOSE are the two things people should be focusing on, not that AP is exploiting a C6 - which if CCP knew about it (which I believe them when they stated they reported it) then I can't really count it as an exploit, more people using shitty mechanics to their benefit...which lets be honest, anyone would do.

    So all the hurf against AP seems more like jealousy.

  18. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Opti's Avatar
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    R&K only say its a challenge because they want to use the same exploit to kill them, thus in effect making their defeat even more better

    even tho CCP may say its working as intended then that everyone has found out they will have to hotfix it because if theres one thing ccp doesnt like it people talking bad about their shit game

    so when ccp fixes it and that corp dies horribly we will all know that the only reason they had their c6 whatever is because they hacked it up killing bitches from 250k away

  19. Kugutsumen Murr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quesa View Post
    That, in and of itself, can't be the only reason they aresuccessful. I'm sure they got in there and successfully completed C6's before they decided to move in or before they realized the funky ass game mechanic. Simply stating that they got where they are strictly because of this :CCP: is a bit naive.
    I didn't state that all their success depends on that completely, what I meant was that combined with them being quite knowledgeable on the field, an advantage like that makes it nearly impossible to compete.

    I've been through their forums and their efficiency is unquestionable, they went out and mapped every single WH site, sorted out classes, difficulty, damage types, ewar, everything, with making a lot of that info public.


    ~~~~GIMMIE +REP+ GIMMIE~~~~

  20. Crashlander Giacomo Carissimi's Avatar
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    honestly, r&k knowing about the exploit/fuckup basically gives them the upper hand. it would be easy to get a fleet together with the right setup to kill them quite easily.

  21. Statler MpozoY's Avatar
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    Comedy option, throw tracking links on your opponents

  22. I have galactorrhea :( Madrak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MpozoY View Post
    Comedy option, throw tracking links on your opponents
    lol, nice comedy option. Too bad if they then turn off disruptors it could go normal levels + links.

    So Murr was there any stuff on their forums about this? How long has this exploit been going on?

  23. I have galactorrhea :(
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    I really doubt they got to where they are just by using that game "mechanic". It probably is something they found out recently

  24. The Gripping Hand
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    Having your HQ in a C6 Magnetar WH is pretty horrible without this exploit - 100% e-war (ECM, TP, TD, damp) bonus and 100% damage bonus, but -50% lock range, -50% tracking speed, -50% missile explosion velocity, and -50% drone velocity make Sleeper hunting a serious PITA. I doubt anyone would choose such a system as their *home* without this exploit. So I guess they knew of it for a while.

    Also, I'm waiting for the bugfix and the comments on e-o about "fuck CCP stop fixing bugs, fix the lag :shakesfist:"

  25. Naturally I finished my set Stronke's Avatar
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    There is no way to recreate this in regular space?

  26. The Gripping Hand
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stronke View Post
    There is no way to recreate this in regular space?
    Not that I know of. You need a pretty silly bonus to tracking disruptors to get the "bonus" high enough to get negative tracking values. C6 Magnetars give +100% TD effectiveness. TD gives -50.25% tracking, so with a 100% bonus, you get -100.5% tracking, which is negative. With the Curse bonus (TD at -62.81%), a 60% bonus is enough (62.81 * 1.6 = 100.5), which means a C4 Magnetar (+68%) is enough.

  27. Gay Bar
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    With maxed infolink proteus with EWAR strength link, on a maxed Curse, with 2 Tracking Disruptor strength links, you get 88.59% Tracking Speed Disruption on a True Sansha Tracking Disruptor. Close, but no cigar.
    FORMERLY "LunarDuck"

  28. Promiscuous
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    They've should've gone in there with tracking links and remote sensor boosters to fuck them up lol

    Hope they get permabanned, if they don't I will throw a fit. They've been deliberately using, and not reporting, a pretty massive exploit so that they could win fights and make isk at record speed. Fuck them

  29. The Gripping Hand
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    Quote Originally Posted by fulis View Post
    Hope they get permabanned, if they don't I will throw a fit. They've been deliberately using, and not reporting, a pretty massive exploit so that they could win fights and make isk at record speed. Fuck them
    According to their post, they did petition it.

  30. The Mote in God's Eye R0ze's Avatar
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    A year ( http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5660468 ) of shooting sleepers while being disrupted by your own buddies ^^

  31. Impostor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady Sadik View Post
    According to their post, they did petition it.
    regarding class 6 wormholes
    reported by CCP Navigator | 2010.09.18 12:43:14 | NEW

    It has recently been reported that an issue exists in Class 6 wormholes which allows for an exploit of game mechanics. This is currently being investigated and we hope to have some more details for you as soon as possible. We would advise all players that the use of exploits is not permitted at any time and doing so can result in action being taken as per the Terms of Service.
    http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=...nid=4119&tid=1

    Don't really think that matters now if they keep using it.

  32. Prominent Author bobbechk's Avatar
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    why would you use falloff lokis doing that....


    why not just siege a dread and enjoy infinite tracking?

  33. The Gripping Hand
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbechk View Post
    why not just siege a dread and enjoy infinite tracking?
    Siege makes you immune to ewar.

  34. "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Zimi Vlasic's Avatar
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    This is a pretty old bug that was reported by a friend to CCP as early as January.

    It's also unsurprising to me that it still isn't fixed.

  35. The Gripping Hand
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    Seems this wasn't cross-posted here yet: http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=606472

    tl;dr:
    - Bug was reported in February
    - The petition they filed first got a reply "this is fine", a few weeks later was deemed an exploit

  36. The Theory and Practice of Time Travel Dinique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady Sadik View Post
    Seems this wasn't cross-posted here yet: http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=606472

    tl;dr:
    - Bug was reported in February
    - The petition they filed first got a reply "this is fine", a few weeks later was deemed an exploit

    "This is fine" response came from a GM that (pick some):

    - Has never played EVE.
    - Doesn't know the first thing about game mechanics.
    - Didn't even read the petition.
    - Is an idiot.

    All of the above applies to 97% of EVE GMs.

  37. Promiscuous
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    The damage control from the AH guys is pretty hilarious.
    "We suspected other people knew about the exploit so we had to use it in order to defend ourselves!"

  38. Is Wrong Again!
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    MMO GM's in general are pretty shitty. Believe it or not CCP's are probably the best of the lot, if any of you have ever had experience with SOE's shit GM's...

    I'm sure this one will go down like things like this usually do: Player reported exploit months ago, CCP does nothing about it, exploit gets revealed to the general population, CCP bans dozens of players for making them look incompetent. That's pretty much how they handled the ferrogel exploit. What's the point in reporting exploits to CCP or CHEATING (as in what became the reason for this site) when they have a history of always shooting the messenger?

  39. The Gripping Hand
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinique View Post
    "This is fine" response came from a GM that (pick some):

    - Has never played EVE.
    - Doesn't know the first thing about game mechanics.
    - Didn't even read the petition.
    - Is an idiot.

    All of the above applies to 97% of EVE GMs.
    Yep. Aka "GM1". First level support is horrible. I hate it when you have to fight past that initial barrier to get something sensible done.

  40. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Aurora148's Avatar
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    GM Homo gave them the all clear,

    this is the same GM that said the 0-w local bug had an equal effect on Atlas and the reds in local.

  41. Neuromancer Berious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderKnight View Post
    MMO GM's in general are pretty shitty. Believe it or not CCP's are probably the best of the lot, if any of you have ever had experience with SOE's shit GM's...

    I'm sure this one will go down like things like this usually do: Player reported exploit months ago, CCP does nothing about it, exploit gets revealed to the general population, CCP bans dozens of players for making them look incompetent. That's pretty much how they handled the ferrogel exploit. What's the point in reporting exploits to CCP or CHEATING (as in what became the reason for this site) when they have a history of always shooting the messenger?
    WoW has the best GMs by far. When I couldn't pick up a quest drop because some addon was blocking the bind on pickup tooltip a GM appeared in like 10 minutes, told me what the problem was then spawned me a new item. Very polite too.

  42. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Mr Coloredshirt's Avatar
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    aharm posted the GM petition log condoning it and he (GM Homo?) basically said "The drawbacks you get in wormholes are intentional", didn't really seem to understand what was up.

  43. I have galactorrhea :( Madrak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0ze
    A year ( http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5660468 ) of shooting sleepers while being disrupted by your own buddies ^^
    Nice find. That Jan 15th km is damning evidence imo that there has been plenty of time to get rich off this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady Sadik
    tl;dr:
    - Bug was reported in February
    Seems like it took them awhile, but better late than never I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora148
    GM Homo gave them the all clear,
    I think we have a winner.

  44. Beaker Lordo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berious View Post
    WoW has the best GMs by far. When I couldn't pick up a quest drop because some addon was blocking the bind on pickup tooltip a GM appeared in like 10 minutes, told me what the problem was then spawned me a new item. Very polite too.
    Whilst wow in general is a shit game, the half a billion they get a year from the game + all the extra shit lets them have a very good customer support.

  45. The Gripping Hand
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    I had pretty horrible experience with the WoW GMs (very late replies, partly quite rude, etc.). I remember coming to EVE, I thought the petition system was pretty awesome in comparison. But then, I played WoW on German servers and have stopped when Burning Crusade came out, so stuff might be different in the US or have changed in the last years.

  46. Naturally I finished my set Stronke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady Sadik View Post
    I had pretty horrible experience with the WoW GMs (very late replies, partly quite rude, etc.). I remember coming to EVE, I thought the petition system was pretty awesome in comparison. But then, I played WoW on German servers and have stopped when Burning Crusade came out, so stuff might be different in the US or have changed in the last years.
    From my experience World of Warcraft GM's take no more then 20 minutes to reply and usualy solf what is going on instandly. With Everquest 2 it depended on the time you petitioned it, the GM's there only coverd serten hours it seemed. Dungeons and Dragons GM's were decent to but few in numbers so sometimes you had to wait a day.

    EvE GM's are just terrible and unless you pretend that its a billing/acount issue expect to wait a week for a reply. I sometimes had problems with a GM in EvE becous his english was shit, and mine was shit so we could do shit and it would take several tickets back and forth to get the problem across.

    There was ones when I fucked up that I praised the help from a GM. I stoped playing for half a year or so and felt like playing again. Right befor I quite I forgot I moved my characters to a new acount and that all three good characters were on 1 acount. I activated my old acounts and noticed that they were all empty so I screamed HAX and dialed the ccp hotline they responded in minutes and after some searching they told me all characters were moved to a singel acount and every thing came back to me. I was quite embarresed and apologised for waisting his time. Befor I could ask any thing the GM asked me if I wanted him to close my three acounts and put it all on the other that had the characters and I was like fuck yeah. So he shut down the acounts and gave my other one a three month playing time wich I thought was nice since it was just me being a tard again.

  47. Prominent Author Deira's Avatar
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    Id swear that when i logged in yesterday it had a newspost about this.

    Today, i log in and it is gone.

    Did CCP figure out their a bunch o nubbits that designed another feature they cant call a exploit untill they fix it?

  48. Naturally I finished my set Stronke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deira View Post
    Id swear that when i logged in yesterday it had a newspost about this.

    Today, i log in and it is gone.

    Did CCP figure out their a bunch o nubbits that designed another feature they cant call a exploit untill they fix it?
    Hello GM Useless here. What is this news post you are talking about? Becous our logs show nothing.

  49. Crashlander Kythren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stronke View Post
    From my experience World of Warcraft GM's take no more then 20 minutes to reply and usualy solf what is going on instandly. With Everquest 2 it depended on the time you petitioned it, the GM's there only coverd serten hours it seemed. Dungeons and Dragons GM's were decent to but few in numbers so sometimes you had to wait a day.

    EvE GM's are just terrible and unless you pretend that its a billing/acount issue expect to wait a week for a reply. I sometimes had problems with a GM in EvE becous his english was shit, and mine was shit so we could do shit and it would take several tickets back and forth to get the problem across.

    There was ones when I fucked up that I praised the help from a GM. I stoped playing for half a year or so and felt like playing again. Right befor I quite I forgot I moved my characters to a new acount and that all three good characters were on 1 acount. I activated my old acounts and noticed that they were all empty so I screamed HAX and dialed the ccp hotline they responded in minutes and after some searching they told me all characters were moved to a singel acount and every thing came back to me. I was quite embarresed and apologised for waisting his time. Befor I could ask any thing the GM asked me if I wanted him to close my three acounts and put it all on the other that had the characters and I was like fuck yeah. So he shut down the acounts and gave my other one a three month playing time wich I thought was nice since it was just me being a tard again.
    could you please install Chrome(it has built in language correction), you have so many (stupid) mistakes in your posts, my kidneys seizure every time I stumble over one. This will also help when communicating with GMs.

    Also who didn't expect this behaviour from CCP. If nobody knows about a certain bug/exploit, they wont fix it until the next big patch, if at all.(SOME of them play eve as well, so it is rather CONVENIENT)

  50. Kugutsumen Murr's Avatar
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    So apparently the 'exploit' was fixed on the September 21st patch with no penalties for AHARM. And since then in most engagements they seem to be winning against R&K, which is quite impressive to say the least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vilgan
    As many people are aware, R&K began an invasion of Aharm about 5 weeks ago, with the starting forces sneaking in around Sept 4/5 and the main D-day planned for Sept 11. Haven't really been any BRs since the magnetar change around Sept 21st so here's a quick update:

    R&K moved out of their old staging system (J152325, jump history is interesting) after we reinforced it unopposed (small tower, no guns), presumably planning to come up our chain. On Thursday Sept 30, we spotted one of their alt corp scanners scanning a route down the chain. After dropping off BMs we popped the cov ops as he came back into our home system. Since the chain involved a quick high sec route, we decided to close the hole and warped a dread and some BS over while stragglers got back into Nova. As the dread got back inside (closing the hole) an R&K dictor warped in and bubbled while contact lists suddenly lit up with about 17 hostile names. They quickly jumped us killing a broadsword and a curse who didn't get off the hole quickly while everyone quickly scrambled into appropriate armor tanked ships. Carrier + friendlies started landing on grid. We killed some hostiles, they started burning out to long range to pull us away from the carriers so we did a carrier leap frogging deal, then they killed a few of ours that got too eager and burned out of carrier range. Battle report here: http://apertureharmonics.eve-kill.ne...kll_id=7707797 . Not pictured was a thanatos on our side, 4 guardians on their side.

    A few days later, on Sunday we spotted one of their carrier pilots that was apparently hooking pods up with new ships. It was scanned out and initially cloaked, but the scanning proteus warped at 0 to its location and decloaked it: http://apertureharmonics.eve-kill.ne...kll_id=7731782 . Contacts list lit up again with about 15 names, but about 40 seconds later all the hostiles logged back off.

    After that, R&K+friends moved into a new staging system (J145844) and reset holes from there along with some newfound allies in BDEAL. One day while resetting, one of their dreads DC'd in the C6 so we took a small force to the system with the intention of 1) closing their hole to trap the dread and 2) reinforce the POS. A redeemer came along (jumped it past the lowsec camps) to help with the hole closing along with a small SB wing. Hole was closed, trapping the rev. Tower was reinforced (10hr timer), altho some SBs were lost in the process. Fortunately the hostile legion had no way to rep so couldn't leave again once it was put in half structure. BR here: http://apertureharmonics.eve-kill.ne...kll_id=7769814

    Tower came out Saturday morning and R&K+BDEAL had a decent amount of t3s on after downtime so we decided to leave them alone. No connection saturday, but they did manage to connect again today. After connecting they jumped through en masse, warped to safes, then reapproached the hole. The hostile thanatos sat on the other side of the hole for a while but decided not to come in, and instead warped back to their staging POS. We waited a bit for people to get back from afk and such, then warped to the hole. They did their burn out to range thing again, but some were caught burning away. Friendlies were also a lot better at not burning way out of range, except for our fearless CEO in a bhaalgorn who banzai charged haphazardly 70km from the carriers and got sent to empire. We closed the hole, they tried to reapproach and lost a few more ships then disenaged and warped around from safe to safe for 20ish before mass logging. Battle report can be found here: http://apertureharmonics.eve-kill.ne...kll_id=7784956 . Not pictured was an archon on our side and 5-6 more hostile guardians on their side.

    Oh ya, especially humorous (imo) was the damage taken by the cane here: http://apertureharmonics.eve-kill.ne...kll_id=7785332 . I think that's the most damage taken I've ever seen on a cane lossmail that didn't involve any npcs
    BR by AHARM guy.


    ~~~~GIMMIE +REP+ GIMMIE~~~~

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