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Titan Rebalance 2012 - "Move the goalposts closer, I can't score"

  1. King Dong Manny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty Vintner View Post
    And you never fielded this because titans do comparable dps, can't be alphaed and track way better, right?
    No dreads are a pain in the arse to move around when dudes already have carriers etc to move. Currently our dread fleet's are in Tech moon centers pre-positioned to where they are needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeliconOne View Post
    Remove all titan turret hardpoints and bonuses, replace with launcher hardpoints and bonuses wned:

    Changing Titans role is dumb as is nerfing them over and over in hopes it changes things. Its simple Delete Titans refund the owners the mins of the ship. Delete Titan Skills , Delete Doomsday device skill refund the skillpoints to those that had it trained. In its place introduce a new capital/supercap that acts as a Jumpbridge/Gangbonus/Support platform. Let players make the choice if they want to invest Skillpoints into that path.


    PROBLEM SOLVED FOREVER

  3. "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Yang Wenli's Avatar
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    PL posters always say that people should spend more time thinking about counters to titans instead of asking for them to be nerfed.

    Well, I am fairly confident that thousands of players have put their minds to this particular task at one time or another since Dominion launched. We've had many alliances consider their options, including FCs that are now in PL themselves.

    Despite this fact, no definitive counter to the post-Dominion Titan blob has ever emerged.

    Since you are all apparently selling yours and/or quitting Eve forever, can you once and for all share those elusive secrets with the rest of us?

    Post-dominion they are the highest EHP ships in the game, and they have a good chance of fighting back against everything from AB-fit T3 cruisers to Dreads.

    Is that a big change? I sure think so. Pre-Dominion titans were indeed great at killing sub-caps, but dread fleets were generally only tickled by AoE DDs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manny View Post
    Changing Titans role is dumb as is nerfing them over and over in hopes it changes things. Its simple Delete Titans refund the owners the mins of the ship. Delete Titan Skills , Delete Doomsday device skill refund the skillpoints to those that had it trained. In its place introduce a new capital/supercap that acts as a Jumpbridge/Gangbonus/Support platform. Let players make the choice if they want to invest Skillpoints into that path.


    PROBLEM SOLVED FOREVER
    That's a lot of minerals to suddenly pump into the game bro.

  5. Animal Kingdom tgr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manny View Post
    Changing Titans role is dumb as is nerfing them over and over in hopes it changes things. Its simple Delete Titans refund the owners the mins of the ship. Delete Titan Skills , Delete Doomsday device skill refund the skillpoints to those that had it trained. In its place introduce a new capital/supercap that acts as a Jumpbridge/Gangbonus/Support platform. Let players make the choice if they want to invest Skillpoints into that path.

    PROBLEM SOLVED FOREVER
    Tell the CSM to advise CCP about this wish. Or just tell CCP yourselves.
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  6. The Theory and Practice of Time Travel Kitty Vintner's Avatar
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    Delete titans only refund SP. Former titan owners can bury their face in their personal tech moons and cry the pain away. Unless you're in CFC in which case you don't get shit. This rewards people who used them before they losed them without breaking the economy.

  7. King Dong Manny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DurrHurrDurr View Post
    That's a lot of minerals to suddenly pump into the game bro.

    Hello Drone region nerf this is the counter balance to the immediate vacuum that nerf creates. Its like its the perfect time or something to do this you know?

  8. King Dong Manny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty Vintner View Post
    Delete titans only refund SP. Former titan owners can bury their face in their personal tech moons and cry the pain away. Unless you're in CFC in which case you don't get shit. This rewards people who used them before they losed them without breaking the economy.
    I already know what I would do with the majority of my titan mins and it wont be selling them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manny View Post
    I already know what I would do with the majority of my titan mins and it wont be selling them.
    Oh gee a new endgame ship type that could be built what will I do with all these minerals I suddenly have???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manny View Post
    Hello Drone region nerf this is the counter balance to the immediate vacuum that nerf creates. Its like its the perfect time or something to do this you know?
    Not really. Any sort of sudden flood of that many minerals would be pretty catastrophic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    But what you're saying is that dreads aren't so much fucked in the ass as getting a quick feel copped on them or maybe a wolf-whistle

    Also if, as I understand you, the new XL gun tracking rate is still easily enough for Titans to hit subcaps with, how is it that it isn't still easily enough for Dreads to hit subcaps with?

    (This is a genuine question, I have limited experience as a dreadnaught pilot)
    Its not that they can't hit them at all, its that WHY, when the dread so desperately needs buffs to make it more attractive so people feel more comfortable using them to counter titans, why do we need to change them at all.

    Dreads are not a problem in any sense of the word, its titans, why would any change to make titans weaker need to have anything to do with dreads?

    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    So dreads retain their anti-structure role they were initially designed for? Oh dear so sad.
    You sure do seem to have a manual that says what every ship was intended for, perhaps you could post it here so we can read it to.

    As far as i know Dreads are anti structure AND anti capital platforms, they always have been.


    You're reaching really hard on this one tgr and not really getting anywhere, you've spent the past 2 pages imposing your personal beliefs as actual game design, you've bought corporate propaganda like it was stocks and bonds, the whole while ignoring every bit of factual evidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DurrHurrDurr View Post
    Not really. Any sort of sudden flood of that many minerals would be pretty catastrophic.

    Markets always correct themselves isn't that what all the economist are always cramming down our throats on the news?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grath View Post
    You're reaching really hard on this one tgr and not really getting anywhere, you've spent the past 2 pages imposing your personal beliefs as actual game design, you've bought corporate propaganda like it was stocks and bonds, the whole while ignoring every bit of factual evidence.
    What factual evidence has there been that I've ignored about how CCP has acted the last 2 years with regards to how titans and supercarriers have been designed?
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  14. Don't stop posting! Grath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yang Wenli View Post
    PL posters always say that people should spend more time thinking about counters to titans instead of asking for them to be nerfed.

    Well, I am fairly confident that thousands of players have put their minds to this particular task at one time or another since Dominion launched. We've had many alliances consider their options, including FCs that are now in PL themselves.

    Despite this fact, no definitive counter to the post-Dominion Titan blob has ever emerged.

    Since you are all apparently selling yours and/or quitting Eve forever, can you once and for all share those elusive secrets with the rest of us?

    Post-dominion they are the highest EHP ships in the game, and they have a good chance of fighting back against everything from AB-fit T3 cruisers to Dreads.

    Is that a big change? I sure think so. Pre-Dominion titans were indeed great at killing sub-caps, but dread fleets were generally only tickled by AoE DDs.

    Somebody tell me if he's fucking stupid or trolling, I can't tell anymore.

  15. The Theory and Practice of Time Travel Kitty Vintner's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure titans' current role as subcap-blappers dovetails perfectly with CCP intending them to be an anti-capital platform.

  16. Don't stop posting! Grath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    What factual evidence has there been that I've ignored about how CCP has acted the last 2 years with regards to how titans and supercarriers have been designed?
    You read the words that CCP, of all companies, puts in print instead of the actions they take in game.

    If they're so intent on Titans not raping sub caps, why is it so hard for them to fix?


    I mean its a pretty fucking simple question man.

  17. The Theory and Practice of Time Travel Kitty Vintner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grath View Post
    You read the words that CCP, of all companies, puts in print instead of the actions they take in game.

    If they're so intent on Titans not raping sub caps, why is it so hard for them to fix?

    I mean its a pretty fucking simple question man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grath View Post
    You read the words that CCP, of all companies, puts in print instead of the actions they take in game.
    Removing ability to DD subcaps? Removing drones?

    Or are you saying drones were there to help in shooting structures or capitals?
    Quote Originally Posted by Grath View Post
    If they're so intent on Titans not raping sub caps, why is it so hard for them to fix?
    :18 months: of space barbie, followed by crucible fixing some minor aspects like subcap ship balancing, now they're on to capitals/supercaps.

    The main problem is that they're sharing the guns with dreads, and they're trying to balance fucking dreads over with fucking titans over wrt subcaps, and I'm not sure if they've thought of just making titan guns XXL or something. But I'm not taking that as a "yes, please, use titans to rape subcaps with impunity", because that's obviously not what CCP wants. It's literally written in every devblog I've googled forth about titans, and it's evident in literally every change they've made to supercarriers AND titans since the post-AOE DD era began.
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  19. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grath View Post
    Its not that they can't hit them at all, its that WHY, when the dread so desperately needs buffs to make it more attractive so people feel more comfortable using them to counter titans, why do we need to change them at all.
    It seems like you're evading the questions I actually asked: in what practical sense have dreads been "fucked in the ass"? Is the new XL tracking is good enough for Titans, why isn't it good enough for Dreads?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    It's literally written in every devblog
    There are any number of changes CCP could make that would instantly remove the threat to subcaps from titans.


    Removing my ability to launch 5 drones wasn't one of them. Removing my ability to kill one guy every 10 minutes wasn't one of them.






    Removing my ability to kill one every 5.8 seconds with my guns would be a good start, but even with this coming change they couldn't even get that part right, AND they fucked with dreads in the process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Is the new XL tracking is good enough for Titans, why isn't it good enough for Dreads?
    Because people don't spend 40 billion on their dread fits?

  22. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Opti's Avatar
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    theres fighters that can hit subcaps and fighterbombers that cant
    theres dreads that can hit subcaps and seige modules that cant
    theres titans that can hit subcaps and oh wait lols

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grath View Post
    Because people don't spend 40 billion on their dread fits?
    I'm sure some wormhole pubbie somewhere does

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    Quote Originally Posted by Opti View Post
    theres fighters that can hit subcaps and fighterbombers that cant
    theres dreads that can hit subcaps and seige modules that cant
    theres titans that can hit subcaps and oh wait lols
    Hi stupid, fancy meeting you here.


    Does it bother you to know that everything you said there was wrong? (fighterbombers still do fairly impressive DPS to bs and Dreads can hit sub caps in siege in the right conditions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Peyote View Post
    I'm sure some wormhole pubbie somewhere does
    Wormhole guys are the ones being fucked the hardest actually, since they still make fairly heavy use of dreads both in and out of siege.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grath View Post
    There are any number of changes CCP could make that would instantly remove the threat to subcaps from titans.

    Removing my ability to launch 5 drones wasn't one of them. Removing my ability to kill one guy every 10 minutes wasn't one of them.

    Removing my ability to kill one every 5.8 seconds with my guns would be a good start, but even with this coming change they couldn't even get that part right, AND they fucked with dreads in the process.
    So you're taking the fact that they haven't fucked with the guns yet (but are probably doing that in the next titan iteration) as "yes, this platform is supposed to shoot subcaps", when everything else points to CCP wanting it to be a capital/structure beast?

    It can't possibly be that they haven't thought it was as big of a problem until you drug your titan nuts across their face a few times, and then went "oh dear, that just won't do at all" and are now scrambling madly for ideas on how to this, and probably will flub the first iteration?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    It can't possibly be that they haven't thought it was as big of a problem until you drug your titan nuts across their face a few times, and then went "oh dear, that just won't do at all" and are now scrambling madly for ideas on how to this, and probably will flub the first iteration?
    So, you mean, the entire time that people have been bitching about titans just sailed right on by, the CSM minutes where people bitch about titans just sailed on by, and until we dropped a titan fleet on their event, where they sat dead fucking still 80km away from the titan, that they were somehow clueless that Titans were a problem, and that somehow, now that they found out, SIX FUCKING MONTHS AGO, that they're still having delay issues addressing this obviously mountainous problem with 0.0 fleet warfare.

    Scrambling madly to fix something for six months stops being scrambling madly, especially when after six months the solution that they come up with is utter shit and doesn't do a damn thing to address the problem.

    This is not fucking rocket science, people weren't being raped by titans and their 5 drones. They weren't losing fleets to supercaps drones either, you were all told this when the winter is coming shit started, none of you have ever seemed to grasp that it was the titans raping your fleets, and it was their guns doing the work. Great, DD's took out a single ship, guns kill about 10 per minute, so over the course of one dead guy from one DD, 100 people die to titan guns.


    Forest fucking gump could have come up with a solution to this problem in the time that CCP have been mulling it over.

  27. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grath View Post
    Hi stupid, fancy meeting you here.


    Does it bother you to know that everything you said there was wrong? (fighterbombers still do fairly impressive DPS to bs and Dreads can hit sub caps in siege in the right conditions)



    Wormhole guys are the ones being fucked the hardest actually, since they still make fairly heavy use of dreads both in and out of siege.
    Dreads in seige aren't affected. What are the numbers for dreads out of seige? Are Sleeper BS harder to hit than the player ships which Titans can still hit?

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    In other words, you are taking the intentions specified in all the devblogs, and the direction all changes have had, totally ignoring that and focusing squarely on the fact that CCP haven't, say, changed all titan guns to XXL guns that just can't hit subcaps even if they stood still, or just removed the possibility to target subcaps in any way, shape or form, as a "yes, titans are supposed to be a subcap weapon"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Are Sleeper BS harder to hit than the player ships which Titans can still hit?

    I don't know its almost like I answered this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    In other words, you are taking the intentions specified in all the devblogs, and the direction all changes have had, totally ignoring that and focusing squarely on the fact that CCP haven't, say, changed all titan guns to XXL guns that just can't hit subcaps even if they stood still, or just removed the possibility to target subcaps in any way, shape or form, as a "yes, titans are supposed to be a subcap weapon"?

    If I wrote 1000 words and gave 10 speeches about never kicking TGR in the nuts, and yet once a day kicked you in the nuts, which would you believe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grath View Post
    I don't know its almost like I answered this.
    You said something about "40 bill fits", but you didn't give any actual numbers, so although it's "almost" like you answered this, in point of fact, you didn't.

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    See, now you're ignoring the fact that CCP have made actual changes, and not just typed out words. And there's coherency between what they've written, and the changes they've made. And apparently to some extent the changes they'll continue to make.
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  33. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Malcanis's Avatar
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    I mean It's almost like I already told you that I'm dumb and ignorant and therefore need things spelling out for me in quantified detail.


    Almost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    You said something about "40 bill fits", but you didn't give any actual numbers, so although it's "almost" like you answered this, in point of fact, you didn't.
    I think we've seen a few 20+ bill carriers in wormholes, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few similarly fitted dreads lying about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    See, now you're ignoring the fact that CCP have made actual changes, and not just typed out words. And there's coherency between what they've written, and the changes they've made. And apparently to some extent the changes they'll continue to make.
    Nobody is denying they've made changes.


    Its just that the changes are laughable when the solutions available and the stated goal is significantly easier than all the dumb shit combined: Just take away the fucking guns and gun bonuses completely.

    Ohterwise nothing you do short of completely altering the way guns work in EVE will stop titans from hitting sub caps.

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    Mouth meet Moneyhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default...78&#post956978
    Dear CSM & CCP;

    Hello I fly a Titan class vessel in a corporation with many Titan Class vessel's in a Alliance with the most Titan class vessels. My alliance uses Titans more than anyother organization in game. I am advocating the Deletion of all Ttitan Class vessels :FULL STOP:. I am also advocating the deletion of all Titan specific skills from the database ( Racial Titan skill , Doomsday device Operation) :FULL STOP: I am also advocating the removal of all Titan BPO/BPC's and Titan specific component BPO/BPC as well as any and all Doomsday Device BPOS/BPC's :FULL STOP:.


    In compensation to the effected pilots I am advocating the return of the minerals for the build of the Titan and its Doomsday Device all equipped modules and equipment within the Titan to be moved to JITA 4-4 so effected pilots can easily decide what to do with the assets at that point. Reimburse all skillpoints from the deleted Titan specific skills as has been done in the past with other skill deletions.Make this change at the exact same time compounds are removed from Drone Region NPC's. This will offset the vacuum left from that change and soften the potential flood of minerals to market from Titan deletion with both changes counter-balancing each other ( perhaps not perfectly).


    After the deletion or at the time of deletion ( If CCP can make it happen "time constraints" ) Introduce a new capital or supercapital platform. This supercapital platform would have specific skills required to pilot it and specific BPO's to produce it . This new platform would have no offensive capability only defensive. Its role would be a support/logistic capital/supercap. It would do things such as create Jumpbridges , Provide Gang bonuses , Have a large corporate hanger and Ship maintnence array to support its fleet.


    My arguments for this are pretty simple. Changing Titans to do this job is silly as not that many would be required to achieve having enough to support the role. Currently there are more titans in game that what would be needed to outfit all nullsec/lowsec groups with this important role. Furthermore a very large portion of Titan pilots did not train for over a year or spend billions upon billions acquiring a hull or further billions upon billions acquiring modules to outfit a Titan that has been deemed since inception to be a offensive roled hull to have it suddenly changed to a non offensive hull.


    The Supercarrier will retain the role as the dominant force in Supercapital warfare specializing in laying waste to capital class vessels and sovereignty structures. This is also a stealth buff for Dreadnaughts as they will be used in greater frequency to shoot POS & Sov Structures in the abscense of Titans.I make the assertion with the complete removal of Titans and a addition of Support/Role Supercapital we will see a more dynamic player experience. With more specific roles for players to fill instead of Titans dominating the battlefield of all types.

    Sincerely,
    Paik
    AKA Manfred Sideous

    ( would have posted with Manny but he is banned from telling screegs to go fuck himself over censoring K.com)

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    I think we've seen a few 20+ bill carriers in wormholes, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few similarly fitted dreads lying about.
    What I'm driving at here is what is the big role that Dreadnaughts play which this tracking nerf will render useless? So far as farming W-space anoms goes, yeah well too fucking bad because EVE ships should never be balanced around PvE. So what PvP role is it in which dreads are getting there asses fucked? Presumably there is a considerable PvP use of unsieged dreads to shoot at comparitively small/fast targets of which I am unaware. What is it? In big cap fights and structure shoots, dreads are presumably sieged anway, so what's the other use? Docking games?

    Enlighten me. I've already accepted I'm dumb, so you don't need to make that point. Just tell me.

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    My eyes.

  39. Don't stop posting! Grath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    What I'm driving at here is what is the big role that Dreadnaughts play which this tracking nerf will render useless?.
    I never said useless, what I said was why fuck with dreads at all, in what way did dreads need any kind of change at all?


    And if you're one of the lowsec groups that use Dreads, or one of the wormhole guys who fight in unsieged dreads, then yes, you've effectively been fucked in the ass by this patch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grath View Post
    Nobody is denying they've made changes.

    Its just that the changes are laughable when the solutions available and the stated goal is significantly easier than all the dumb shit combined: Just take away the fucking guns and gun bonuses completely.

    Ohterwise nothing you do short of completely altering the way guns work in EVE will stop titans from hitting sub caps.
    Let's assume they've removed guns and gun bonuses from the titan hulls in their entirety. What would you use them for?
    Turning pretend colourblind angels from spaceship to madship samurais, one post at a time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grath View Post
    I never said useless, what I said was why fuck with dreads at all, in what way did dreads need any kind of change at all?


    And if you're one of the lowsec groups that use Dreads, or one of the wormhole guys who fight in unsieged dreads, then yes, you've effectively been fucked in the ass by this patch.
    25k dps dread is what eve needs.

  42. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grath View Post
    I never said useless, what I said was why fuck with dreads at all, in what way did dreads need any kind of change at all?


    And if you're one of the lowsec groups that use Dreads, or one of the wormhole guys who fight in unsieged dreads, then yes, you've effectively been fucked in the ass by this patch.
    So basically, PvEers?

  43. "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    Let's assume they've removed guns and gun bonuses from the titan hulls in their entirety. What would you use them for?
    bridge on top of your cuntface

  44. Becalmed in Hell Matos's Avatar
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    Tracking Change does change fuck all for WH Sites. You have subcaps webbing/painting the NPC BS and they pop like candy.

    Just like Maelstroms still will after the Patch.

    Not sure why anyone would fight in an unsieged Dread, might just as well bring a BS then.

  45. How to Build a Universe That Doesn't Fall Apart Two Days Later El Space Mariachi's Avatar
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    The only way to balance EVE would be to make every ship have exactly the same stats. Imagine, the greatest Rifterdome ever known! It would be paradise

    Someone propose it to CCP

  46. Don't stop posting! Grath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    Let's assume they've removed guns and gun bonuses from the titan hulls in their entirety. What would you use them for?
    For the number of titans that exist in EVE, there is no role.


    They'll need to be removed entirely, but while CCP wants to figure out what to do with them removing the guns and weapon bonuses will serve to meet their stated goal of not having them kill sub caps.

    Literally NOTHING else will work. If you leave them guns, people will get shot, if you nerf them hard enough to make them miss, you kill the dread because of the way they're approaching the nerf.

    The role CCP is trying to define for the titan, Titan pilots do not want, thats not ever what the ship has been about and its not why any of them ever bought the ship. You don't cater to a part of your player base thats not going to keep the titan for what you intend it for anyway.

    Neuter it completely, those that are going to dump that account will dump it no matter what role they assign in next anyway, as they only bought them to fight with.


    So get it over and done with.

  47. Don't stop posting! Grath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matos View Post

    Not sure why anyone would fight in an unsieged Dread, might just as well bring a BS then.
    Yea, cause BS stand up to the volley of 200 maelstroms the same as dreads do right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    So basically, PvEers?
    No, but i guess putting words in my mouth is a sporting event for you today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manny View Post
    We have a fleet concept that has been mulled around for some time. It has been tested here and there its called Fatcats. Fatcats are dreads that hit subcaps quite well out of siege and when you do siege them hit subcaps moderately well and do crazy dps to structures or capitals/supers. Now with the suggested change this is severely diminished as well as the Dreads ability to do DPS reliably to supercaps at the rate it did pre titan nerf. With the tracking changes a sieged dread will now do less DPS to moving supercaps than it did before the nerf. Making using dreads and or fatcats pointless. Anytime dreads come onto the field we will put a warfare link fitted Rag into FC position align supers with max transversal and laugh at the dreads as we butcher them. GG CCP and unintended consequences.
    Regarding the bolded sentence: what? From the CCP post:

    Quote Originally Posted by CCP Greyscale
    XL turret tracking halved, siege module tracking penalty removed

    This should generally make titan performance against small targets significantly worse, without seriously impacting their effectiveness against larger targets, or negatively impacting dreadnaughts in their common use-case (ie, in siege mode).
    A sieged dread's tracking right now is:

    (base_xl_turret_tracking * mods_skills_etc) * 0.5

    Their proposed change is:

    (base_xl_turret_tracking * 0.5) * mods_skills_etc

    which is the same thing. Are you saying that it isn't?

  49. Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    Let's assume they've removed guns and gun bonuses from the titan hulls in their entirety. What would you use them for?
    Whatever they'd be used for, they'd no longer be worth 60bil. I think the first step is to accept that Titans will have to be reimbursed for everybody and transformed into cheaper vessels without a combat role. They'd still bridge and give bonuses but there would be no reason to use them en masse.

    It's a sort of extreme solution, but I don't see another way of fixing it.

  50. Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Color Gray View Post
    Regarding the bolded sentence: what? From the CCP post:



    A sieged dread's tracking right now is:

    (base_xl_turret_tracking * mods_skills_etc) * 0.5

    Their proposed change is:

    (base_xl_turret_tracking * 0.5) * mods_skills_etc

    which is the same thing. Are you saying that it isn't?
    You didn't read the part in which Manny said the 'Fatcats' were meant to be UNSIEGED. This nerf negatively affects unsieged Dreads. So yeah, it's a nerf.

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