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[devpost] winter expansion info

  1. King Dong Manny's Avatar
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    Plain and simple Null-Sec should be the ultimate risk and pay the ultimate rewards. Anything that detracts from the previous statement is game breaking.

    Can't handle the risk try lowsec or highsec.

    Want more reward try lowsec or nullsec.


    Even WOW made Cataclysm harder because dumbed down easy gaming doesn't lend well to player retention.

  2. King Dong Rer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manny View Post
    Plain and simple Null-Sec should be the ultimate risk and pay the ultimate rewards.
    So we should all just trade in derivatives

  3. The Theory and Practice of Teleportation GreenDaemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rer View Post
    So we should all just trade in derivatives
    Sun Tzu agrees.

  4. I'm Only in It for the Money Grim's Avatar
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    Well... Theoretically w-space should have the greatest risk/rewards and I think that is how eve is right now. That being said I don't see how nullsec rewards can be boosted without breaking the game. The lazy solution is a highsec mission/mining nerf that would kill eve with the exodus of highsec carebears. I don't think it can be fixed without pissing off massive amounts of people and killing the game. Minor tweaks to moon mining and sanctum values can only do so much.
    If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
    Fear the KKM

  5. What Good Is a Glass Dagger? Jm24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan Sjet View Post
    On an unrelated note, Jita's stock of heavy water has been mysteriously bought up and put back on the market at 100* the normal low sell. vov
    don't worry boss, i manipulated buys to 3x the previous days price and sells down to under 100 with a capital of 25 million isk, lmao trying to manipulate heavy water

  6. King Dong penifSMASH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim View Post
    Well... Theoretically w-space should have the greatest risk/rewards and I think that is how eve is right now. That being said I don't see how nullsec rewards can be boosted without breaking the game. The lazy solution is a highsec mission/mining nerf that would kill eve with the exodus of highsec carebears. I don't think it can be fixed without pissing off massive amounts of people and killing the game. Minor tweaks to moon mining and sanctum values can only do so much.
    Null-sec is fine as is and if you are smart enough to go beyond belt ratting in a Drake, it is very easy to get rich in sov space. Sov holders just think they are entitled to isk growing on trees because they risk their reimbursable battlecruiser in a blobby fleet flight once a month.

  7. I'm Only in It for the Money Grim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by penifSMASH View Post
    Null-sec is fine as is and if you are smart enough to go beyond belt ratting in a Drake, it is very easy to get rich in sov space. Sov holders just think they are entitled to isk growing on trees because they risk their reimbursable battlecruiser in a blobby fleet flight once a month.
    I agree that nullsec is fine isk wise as far as belt ratting/anoms go. It isn't a huge improvement over empire, but if your just in nullsec for isk you got more than a few screws loose.
    If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
    Fear the KKM

  8. Honey, Don't You Want a Man Like Me Elektrea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim View Post
    I agree that nullsec is fine isk wise as far as belt ratting/anoms go. It isn't a huge improvement over empire, but if your just in nullsec for isk you got more than a few screws loose.
    Yes ratting/anoms are better, but mining and manufacturing is missing and needs to be addressed sooner or later. I have hope because CCP are actually balancing their damn game, but will they go the whole way?

  9. Big slab'a Prussian wurst Malaclypse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    In a spaceship game, the sky is the lower limit.
    No, I am actually quite confident that there's always someone out there to prove that there's no minimal threshold for intelligence, thus there is no limit in either direction whatsoever.
    Monkeys killing monkeys killing monkeys over places of the ground.
    Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club and beat their brothers down.

    The universe is hostile, so impersonal: Devour to survive - So it is, so it's always been!

  10. The Theory and Practice of Teleportation Kevin's Avatar
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    Faction tower owners got screwed by this unles they buff the stats, but i don't own faction towers. No reduction in SOV fuel costs is also giving the finger to alliances who don't use stations, although that's rarer and rarer these days. Runnign a tower in general is going to be more expensive as well, sicne they'll all run at max powergrid/cpu for fuel costs.

    Remove of passwords sorta kills some of the metagame.

    Anchoring times are fucking wonderful now.

    And half and half, changing over at a DT? What could possibly go wrong? I think i'll go hunting offline tech towers in the hours after DT, assumign the game comes back up. Anyone remember the patch(es) when POS's started shooting blues as well?

  11. The Theory and Practice of Teleportation Kevin's Avatar
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    Also,

    Quote Originally Posted by Zakhodit View Post
    The only ships that can utilize a Cov Ops Cyno, are ships that can themselves, warp while cloaked. Sadly, a crow storm of Muninn cannot. A fleet of Stealth Bombers is our only good option if you consider the fuel cost of jumping 30 ships into a system. A Black Ops has a tiny fuel bay and jumping 30 stealth bombers empties it out pretty quick. Also, given the nature of the strike, SBs are the most cost effective
    You're doing it wrong if you can't get more than 20-30 in a drop.

  12. The Theory and Practice of Time Travel Kitty Vintner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Anyone remember the patch(es) when POS's started shooting blues as well?
    Goonswarm POS have never not shot blues. I thought it was the same for everyone.

  13. Ask Me About My Flux Capacitor Fix Lag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty Vintner View Post
    never not shot blues.
    Patch day is gonna be a fucking massacre.

  14. Glimmung Zakhodit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Also,
    You're doing it wrong if you can't get more than 20-30 in a drop.
    Meh, according to all reports, I was doing everything wrong.


    vOv


    On another note, the POS changes may just safe the lives of a few poor souls who have to keep on top of that mess. I'm going to go ahead and call it now: the winter update will take 12 hours of downtime followed by 6 hours to fix the hellish unseen glitch. But in the end, the masses will be apeased.
    "But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
    "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
    "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
    "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

  15. Inconstant Moon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakhodit View Post
    But in the end, the masses will be APPEASED.
    This part of your post was wrong. CCP is set blue, and blues must be shot. Also the hellish glitch will last for a week minimum, with regular unscheduled down times.

  16. Big slab'a Prussian wurst Malaclypse's Avatar
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    I know exactly how the big gamebreaking glitch will look like.

    [SPOILER=Beware - Horror][/SPOILER]
    Monkeys killing monkeys killing monkeys over places of the ground.
    Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club and beat their brothers down.

    The universe is hostile, so impersonal: Devour to survive - So it is, so it's always been!

  17. Glimmung Zakhodit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeon221 View Post
    This part of your post was wrong.
    I refer you to the first part of my post, and then it all becomes clear.
    "But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
    "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
    "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
    "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

  18. Fuck me I'm Famous! Grath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    Remove of passwords sorta kills some of the metagame.
    Not really:

    Currently you need a pw set for a pos to use its jump bridge, that means should trouble arise, you can take shelter in the tower. This can be problematic for smaller groups harassing the networks large coalitions use to get around. The same alliance rarely holds all the bridges and beacons a coalition uses, so the passwords are a must.

    After the change they must make a choice-

    1) Set a PW, allow shelter to be taken in the towers, but also allow the metagame.

    2) Don't set a password, just set the towers to function based on standings. Suddenly your beacons and Bridges become like getting off a bus in the ghetto at midnight. They can't run for the tower if they're one of the other alliances in the coalition (who invariably travel the routes) and so they're stuck having only whatever scrub defenses the tower provides, which even now are rarely enough to stop a determined force from committing on a bridge or beacon.


    So do you leave your allies out to dry and keep your own alliance safe or do you invite them, and everybody they let spy on them, in your towers?

    I love it.

  19. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grath View Post
    Not really:

    Currently you need a pw set for a pos to use its jump bridge, that means should trouble arise, you can take shelter in the tower. This can be problematic for smaller groups harassing the networks large coalitions use to get around. The same alliance rarely holds all the bridges and beacons a coalition uses, so the passwords are a must.

    After the change they must make a choice-

    1) Set a PW, allow shelter to be taken in the towers, but also allow the metagame.

    2) Don't set a password, just set the towers to function based on standings. Suddenly your beacons and Bridges become like getting off a bus in the ghetto at midnight. They can't run for the tower if they're one of the other alliances in the coalition (who invariably travel the routes) and so they're stuck having only whatever scrub defenses the tower provides, which even now are rarely enough to stop a determined force from committing on a bridge or beacon.


    So do you leave your allies out to dry and keep your own alliance safe or do you invite them, and everybody they let spy on them, in your towers?

    I love it.
    Agreed it's an excellent change. Although the gameplay improvements are probably unintentional, that doesn't mean we can't appreciate them

  20. Animal Kingdom tgr's Avatar
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    It's not like everyone didn't know the passwords of literally every JB tower out there anyways, the only thing this change does is

    1) Remove the grind for normal pilots
    2) Supers can chill in JB towers again (until awoxers bump them out )
    Turning pretend colourblind angels from spaceship to madship samurais, one post at a time.

  21. Glimmung Zakhodit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    It's not like everyone didn't know the passwords of literally every JB tower out there anyways,
    Didn't Mittens, during a CSM meeting with CCP, pull out a "little black book" of passwords to show them how easily obtained, and therefore pointless they are?
    "But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
    "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
    "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
    "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

  22. The Theory and Practice of Teleportation Traakile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakhodit View Post
    Didn't Mittens, during a CSM meeting with CCP, pull out a "little black book" of passwords to show them how easily obtained, and therefore pointless they are?
    Just googling "x JB map" would probably be enough.

  23. Legitimate Rape Baby
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    Stealing an unattended cap inside shields won't be so easy anymore.

  24. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manfred Hideous View Post
    Stealing an unattended cap inside shields won't be so easy anymore.
    This will make people be more careless with them.

  25. Becalmed in Hell Matos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traakile View Post
    Just googling "x JB map" would probably be enough.
    In that case could you provide me with a JB map for the new "NC"?

  26. The church of Batman the redeemer needs you
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manny View Post
    Plain and simple Null-Sec should be the ultimate risk and pay the ultimate rewards.
    in reality, people welcome any additional reward in 0.0 but shed seas of tears about the slightest increase of risks in 0.0.
    There are still myriads of threads on e-o.com about afk cloakers blocking "their systems", which require a counter etc.
    People dont like risks, only rewards and this is the reason we will never get your version of null.




    just saw that negrep:
    Thread: [devpost] winter expansion info Red post; didn't read.




    people tell me about not reading my posts -.- epic

  27. Becalmed in Hell Matos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripper van View Post
    people tell me about not reading my posts -.- epic
    Its not like they missed much. Your only point is to whine about whiners

  28. Becalmed in Hell ReallyMatter's Avatar
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    I have been pondering 0.0, manufacturing and mining, while I cant understand why a high sec station can support 50 build slots and a brand new station in 0.0 does not until you upgrade the snot out of it. Most any station in empire regardless of race can support 50 build slots. Of course I do know not all the stations in empire have manufacture ability, repair ability, refine ability, and research ability, but over 90% of them do.

    Now I ask myself as of today in the real world how fast can we mine ore, coal for example. What is a cycle, and how far can we mine. I find the Strip Miner II can mine at range of 15 kilometers, now that in itself is amazing, as the best drag line I can find (The Big Muskie) can only mine at a range of 310 feet. However the drag line can mine around 192 m3 per swipe, and a swipe takes about 1 minute.

    Now a dragline has only 1 bucket, the Hulk has 3 miners, so we have the ability with the Hulk to mine 15 kilometers away but only able to pull 1435 m3 per minute according to eft, which is about 3 times as much as a dragline of today. If we have the ability to fly in space, mine at a range of 15 kilometers, and do it with lasers instead of buckets, then I would think that we can do it in less time than a 3 minute cycle, and actually mine a whole lot more than 3 times as much as we can do today in the real world.

    What I am thinking is that if you shorten the mining laser time on a strip miner to 1 minute instead of 3 that in itself would give it a boost and make it not so mind numbing boring, I mean who wants to pay attention to doing something when you have to wait 3 minutes for something to happen? Mining to me is about as much fun as setting up a Large deathstar tower.

    I would think that since we have the ability to construct our own outposts we would construct one that operates the same in 0.0 as it would in empire, and to be quite frank about it, wouldnt we engineer it to be a little bit better than what is in empire? Why not give 0.0 Outposts 50 build slots, 20 research slots automatically without any upgrade? Make the upgrade an upgrade for time, upgrade 1 makes building X at a 25% time savings, upgrade 2 makes building X at a 40% time savings, and upgrade 3 building X gives a 60% time savings. Same for research, if upgrade 1 was installed the time savings works for it as well, along with invention success rate.

    Just an idea I have been thinking on when it comes to buffing industry in 0.0.

  29. Becalmed in Hell Matos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReallyMatter View Post
    Do you truly think it would make mining less boring if you had to shovel your cargo every 2 Minutes instead of every 6? (Or whatever the current time is)

    But yeah Outposts aren't that great in 0.0 for large scale Manufacturing. I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

  30. Becalmed in Hell ReallyMatter's Avatar
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    I dont know if anything could make mining desirable, however anything to make it better than waiting 3 minutes for something to happen would be a step in the right direction. I really think waiting 3 minutes for anything to happen is boring as hell. I stated in other threads or maybe this one I used to mine, and it was boring as hell in a Hulk, but not as boring in a BS with mining lasers since I had something to do every minute and not waiting 3 minutes for something to do.

    Granted I dont think Mining will ever be not boring, but there has to be something they can do to make it attractive to those who want to dabble in it every now and then to play eve on just something to do mode.

  31. At the office, getting paid to be on here (unofficially) Jacabon Mere's Avatar
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    a longer time would mean i watch more tv between cycles which is more interesting than dragging stuff from a cargo hold to a container.

  32. Go fuck yourself Frodo!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripper van View Post
    just saw that negrep:
    Thread: [devpost] winter expansion info Red post; didn't read.




    people tell me about not reading my posts -.- epic
    lmao, I get that loser a lot too.

    also holding sov in most systems is pretty pointless, just take the stations, some systems for jumpbridges, and moons and save yourself some bills.

    missioning and incursions in highsec are much more profitable in most regions. like providence and pureblind for example...there is probably never a single haven or sanctum there, so what's the point?

  33. At the office, getting paid to be on here (unofficially) Jacabon Mere's Avatar
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    forsaken hubs and rallypoints aren't too bad. but when you have only 3 sites worth running at level 5 it hardly brings any credibility to the we wanty pople in 0.0 cry.

    Still doesn't compare to incursions, but 50mil per hour in bounties and the odd faction spawn would indicate better average income than missions to me.

  34. Electric Ant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim View Post
    That being said I don't see how nullsec rewards can be boosted without breaking the game.
    Increase reward but also increase risk.

    "I've got 5bil worth of shit (empire prices) in 0.0 but there is a 50-50 chance of dying and losing it all trying to get to empire, what do?" <----creates awesome game play.

  35. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsubutai View Post
    Not that I disagree with your broader point, but moongoo is a fairly major omission from that list given that the vast bulk of the high value moons are in 0.0.
    I missed this before but there are probably enough moons in lo-sec to supply what high-sec needs for itself (as opposed to ships/mods exported straight back to 0.0)

  36. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moomaka View Post
    Increase reward but also increase risk.

    "I've got 5bil worth of shit (empire prices) in 0.0 but there is a 50-50 chance of dying and losing it all trying to get to empire, what do?" <----creates awesome game play.
    A: baww like crazy that it takes more than 20 minutes to jump to Jita, then get your way, then baww like crazy some more that plex/faction drops aren't worth what they used to be, and you can't make a worthwhile profit bringing T2 stuffs back to 0.0, for some inexplicable reason.

  37. The Theory and Practice of Time Travel Kitty Vintner's Avatar
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    Thank you for introducing me to Sisi, winter patch.

  38. Big slab'a Prussian wurst Malaclypse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty Vintner View Post


    Thank you for introducing me to Sisi, winter patch.
    Not to rain on your parade, but on Sisi podding actually can get you banned, unless the victim agrees to it.
    That being sad; what an idiot to not make use of the moveme channel or suicide pod himself around. After all even a full slave set only costs 600 ISK there.
    Monkeys killing monkeys killing monkeys over places of the ground.
    Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club and beat their brothers down.

    The universe is hostile, so impersonal: Devour to survive - So it is, so it's always been!

  39. Inconstant Moon John Caffeine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malaclypse View Post
    Not to rain on your parade, but on Sisi podding actually can get you banned, unless the victim agrees to it.
    That being sad; what an idiot to not make use of the moveme channel or suicide pod himself around. After all even a full slave set only costs 600 ISK there.
    Podding is allowed in C-6 now, unless it's on station or a gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by CCP Oneiromancer
    Podding is no longer disallowed, so keep your clone up to date. Keep in mind that repeated and intentional podding without consent still falls under interfering with testing, so you can still be banned if you abuse this.

  40. Go fuck yourself Frodo!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manny View Post

    Even WOW made Cataclysm harder because dumbed down easy gaming doesn't lend well to player retention.
    Which worked out so well for them, what with the 7% drop in subscriptions after it's release.

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/act...nch-2011-11-08

  41. King Dong Rer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacabon Mere View Post
    a longer time would mean i watch more tv between cycles which is more interesting than dragging stuff from a cargo hold to a container.
    Only reason Mining is tolerable, it lets me catch up on Hulu or lets me at least doing something in EVE while I'm editing/doing homework.

  42. The Theory and Practice of Teleportation Deniera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty Vintner View Post
    Goonswarm POS have never not shot blues. I thought it was the same for everyone.
    The very first op I ever flew with goons I was popped by one of their towers.

  43. The Theory and Practice of Teleportation Deniera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matos View Post
    In that case could you provide me with a JB map for the new "NC"?
    You'll have to be more specific. I do however have some really great NC jb maps that spanned all the way from geminate to delve in the one image. It was sexual.

  44. Truth. As terrible as death. But harder to find Seymore Graves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deniera View Post
    The very first op I ever flew with goons I was popped by one of their towers.
    I have some fond memories of DAWWW members being blown up by gsf towers during the ~defence of vfk.

  45. Galactic Pot-Healer Mira Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Caffeine View Post
    Podding is allowed in C-6 now, unless it's on station or a gate.
    And you know they only did that because it was too much work bansticking all the people that were podding each other...

    Anyway, I don't think anyone's picked up on the volume implications for logistics of the tower fuel changes. The volume of a weeks worth of blocks is going to be a little less than the volume of a weeks worth fuel, unmodified by faction or sov. However, its going to be significantly more than the volume taken up by the fuel required for faction towers or towers with a sov fuel discount.

    The upshot is, if you're looking after a large amount of towers in 0.0, you're going to be making more trips on your jump frieghter. That might make Centra happy, at least if the damned things werent practically invulnerable anyway.

  46. Impostor Kelmurdoch's Avatar
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    Is the value of a faction tower that it consumes less fuel? Are there any other benefits?
    Random Test member

  47. King Dong Atticus's Avatar
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    I heard there's a station spinning counter on SiSi... I imagine new contests brewing between sov holding alliances on who can spin their ships more.
    "It pains me to say it but you are a good poster." - Vonq

  48. The Illinois Enema Bandit Weaselior's Avatar
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    they're fixing it so faction towers still have fuel consumption bonuses

  49. The Illinois Enema Bandit Weaselior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deniera View Post
    The very first op I ever flew with goons I was popped by one of their towers.
    when we invaded cloud ring some FC decided to use my moon mining/reacting towers in some system as cover

    given that I had no idea how to set standings for my altcorp, that was somewhat of a mistake

  50. What Good Is a Glass Dagger? DavidKMagnus's Avatar
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    A f?w add?t?on?l changes - including a Stealth Goonswarm Nerf....

    - Jump butt?n now works remotely like the dock button. If you aren't in jumping range‚ clicking th? jump button w?ll warp to or approach the gate then automat?c?lly jump.


    - Aut?pilot now allows you to specify a station in the destination system. When you arrive in the final system you will warp to 15km off the station‚ slowboat th? rest of the way, then automat?cally dock.


    - A new EVE Launcher w?ll be ?vailable (Wind?ws only) that will do all patching automatically‚ and provid? news updates. http://www.eveonl?ne.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nb?d=3070


    - Tod?y the MOTD ?f the in-game Recruitment channel was changed by a GM to disallow scamming. The in-game Recruitment channel MOTD now reads:
    Quote:
    EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to the recruitment channel. This channel is intended for those players looking to find a new corporation‚ as w?ll as those look?ng to enl?st new pl?yers. Other activities, such as n?n-recruitment discussion is not permitted.


    No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes‚ but not limit?d to, us?ng the recru?tment ch?nnel as a platf?rm to find or target players to scam. As per subject‚ w? ask everyone to use the?r best judgment before contract?ng ?ssets ?r ISK as part of corporation’s recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility.

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