CEX.io
Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 150 of 460

Local chat: for all your local discussion needs

  1. What Good Is a Glass Dagger? Ricky's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Oct
    Location
    Still looking
    Posts
    444
    R/P
    0.53153153153153
    Power
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mfume View Post
    today we roamed in EUTZ and got init to escalate some random dudes ganking missioners to them losing a carrier on the gate to their home system. yesterday we roamed in AUTZ and managed to get xdeath to escalate and killed a carrier on the undock of their home stn.

    the fights are there, the kills are there, the players have to be there. timers are EZ mode, guaranteed fitez, but ultimately if dudes flat dont want to fight you, they don't have to show up to those either.
    you must have allot more luck then most ppl then, cause i literally never go on roams anymore, only because 19 of 20 times you come back 2-3 hours later and absolutely nothing have happened.
    [spoiler= -A- Dude on SuperCaps][quote=midi2304][COLOR=#333333]Maybe if team tech knew how to use supers properly they wouldn't be taking yards of mittani cock all over the north at the moment?[/COLOR][/quote][/spoiler]

  2. Monalisa Overdrive Mfume's Avatar
    Joined
    2011 Jun
    Location
    Spacemoney Venal
    Posts
    1,325
    R/P
    0.44377358490566
    Power
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by hellkyte View Post
    Are you seriously so thick that you don't see how this story actually VALIDATES the other position? People will fight to protect their carebears, IFF you can actually threaten them.
    when did i say people wouldn't defend carebears?

    also: grath also says that ratting is 99% risk-free because of local.

    (laffo)
    Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.

  3. Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex
    Joined
    2011 Feb
    Location
    -GE-
    Posts
    303
    R/P
    2.7524752475248
    Power
    4
    Yeah, and then there's the bulk of your roams where you do 100+ jumps and kill 5 duders who were unlucky enough to jump into your gang unscouted.
    For us at least the medscale GF/hours roamed ratio has been abysmal the last few months. No wonder FCs play LoL instead, because there its push butan and get guaranteed PvP instead of some slim chance of half-decent engagement.

    No idea how delayed local is supposed to help that. Bears are still easily catchable w/ some effort and for dumpstering uncoordinated kitchen-sink fleets while outnumbered just go to EC-P8R like Hydra does.

  4. Promiscuous Combat Scrub's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Oct
    Location
    Lost in Space, Please Ignore
    Posts
    470
    R/P
    0.16382978723404
    Power
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdul View Post
    Delayed local is a retarded and dumb idea.

    The ability to warp cloaked and light a cyno is imbalanced. Delayed local in wormholes works because you can't cyno shit on top of someone.


    EDIT: Also, I find fights with local. If you remove local there will be LESS fights as they will be harder to find. Imagine, your roaming gang jumps into system... you do a D-Scan, nothing there, ok, drop probes... still nothing.

    "Okay gang, recall probes, warp to next gate lets do this again"

    And do that.... ALL FUCKING NIGHT.

    Get fucked on a delayed local, it's a horrible idea.
    So I have had ideas about this since WH came out, and I agree (and disagree) with you.

    First, in nullsec "Local" should only have a number of ships in space. In Sovereign space, you should be able to buy an IHUB upgrade to provide, to the sovereign alliance only upgrades to Local - from number of ships to Local like in empire. If there were actual treaties and pacts, that data could be available to coalition members who are in the treaty/pact. In NPC nullsec names would only show up if the ships are docked. This allows a couple things

    • In sovereign nullsec it provides a baseline of intel (how many people are in a given system when you jump in), but detailed intel only to the sov spaceholders if they choose to buy the iHub upgrade.
    • In NPC null, it gives you an idea of how many folks are in a system, and if they are in space or in station. Maybe in NPC space the owning faction could be payed off (with LP, of course) to provide full local to anyone who wants it, on a monthly basis.
    • The cute color tags are fine with the numbering system - as long as it's standings only (blue/lt blue/none/orange/red) because you would know how many neutrals or reds in system, but that's it unless you are the sov holder or you've paid off the locals.
    • It would also give roaming gangs an immediate update (in NPC space anyway) about whether everyone is docked, or if there are ships in space.
    This doesn't totally screw up nullsec play:
    • Roaming gangs get enough intel to try and hunt or move on quickly in NPC null or their own space.
    • Sovereignty upgrades that actually "improve" the space for everyone.
    • LP sinks for NPC nullsec.
    So what's wrong with that?

  5. Don't try to solve serious matters in the middle of the night Zagdul's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Aug
    Location
    Shopping
    Posts
    1,988
    R/P
    0.68360160965795
    Power
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Combat Scrub View Post
    So I have had ideas about this since WH came out, and I agree (and disagree) with you.

    First, in nullsec "Local" should only have a number of ships in space. In Sovereign space, you should be able to buy an IHUB upgrade to provide, to the sovereign alliance only upgrades to Local - from number of ships to Local like in empire. If there were actual treaties and pacts, that data could be available to coalition members who are in the treaty/pact. In NPC nullsec names would only show up if the ships are docked. This allows a couple things

    • In sovereign nullsec it provides a baseline of intel (how many people are in a given system when you jump in), but detailed intel only to the sov spaceholders if they choose to buy the iHub upgrade.
    • In NPC null, it gives you an idea of how many folks are in a system, and if they are in space or in station. Maybe in NPC space the owning faction could be payed off (with LP, of course) to provide full local to anyone who wants it, on a monthly basis.
    • The cute color tags are fine with the numbering system - as long as it's standings only (blue/lt blue/none/orange/red) because you would know how many neutrals or reds in system, but that's it unless you are the sov holder or you've paid off the locals.
    • It would also give roaming gangs an immediate update (in NPC space anyway) about whether everyone is docked, or if there are ships in space.

    This doesn't totally screw up nullsec play:
    • Roaming gangs get enough intel to try and hunt or move on quickly in NPC null or their own space.
    • Sovereignty upgrades that actually "improve" the space for everyone.
    • LP sinks for NPC nullsec.

    So what's wrong with that?
    Adding more sov bills to an alliance is a shit idea. It's already expensive enough and alliances who don't have access to the high end moons will again be met with the question of weather risk of holding space with the expense is worth it. As it stands, space is already expensive as fuck to maintain in terms of effort put into it and the rewards. With a tech rebalance on the horizion, the benefits will lessen for alliances who hold it.

    My alliance pays out almost 20 billion a month in sov bills and we're cheap. Goons who run a single region + maintain a complex jump bridge network are paying out something retarded like 60b. It has it's benefits, but if you keep adding more without having ways to offset these costs you'll have more disgruntled sov holding entities.

    Keep taking the benefits of holding sov and we'll just have a fuck ton of PL's running around. Keep adding work and effort to generate isk just to stay afloat, and you'll lose the leadership who works their asses off to maintain the alliances. This will result in a fuck ton of pilots without guidance, goals and focus. EVE will eventually ~die~.

    You have to keep the balance of null sec being somewhat livable. No, it shouldn't be safe, yes... it should have risks. However, if you make it completely unlivable and implement things that make it un-fun to hold, you will lose interest.



    Quote Originally Posted by Marko Box View Post
    High sec mission running is worse then incursions, full stop. Its worse then anom running in 0.0 so i rly cant understand why people keep bringing it up as something which is broken in high sec.
    The argument isn't which aspect, be it missions, anoms, plexes or incursions is more worth while, try to keep up.

  6. Inconstant Moon Prodnovick's Avatar
    Joined
    2011 Aug
    Location
    Highsec
    Posts
    689
    R/P
    1.0058055152395
    Power
    4
    I don't understand people that want to nerf local in nullsec into the ground. Yeah it's stupid that the locals have 99% chance to get out if they are paying attention but the moment this changes to 90% no one will rat in nullsec anymore. The only reason I rat in nullsec right now is because I am close to our staging system, it's not like you can't make the same isk easily in high sec.

    I think people focus too much on the dead ratting systems in some regions that are visited once a month but systems in Fade and Pure Blind have gangs coming trough all the time. It wouldn't be possible to rat there so people would just move out and the gangs would stop coming. The only thing this does is create more dead regions. One guy logged of in system xxx, well we can't rat there anymore.

    The only way i see this working is if nullsec is buffed and high sec nerfed into the ground. A balance of 1isk/xxx in high to 2 in low and 4 in null and wh.

  7. Becalmed in Hell Kazanir's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Jul
    Posts
    807
    R/P
    1.0235439900867
    Power
    5
    Let me submit for consideration the idea that roaming "sucks" in 0.0 not because of local chat preventing people from undocking, but because there is nothing compelling smaller than a moon to *fight over* in that space, and because the "fighting" is best done by hiding and going AFK.

    1. Want to get a roaming solo guy to go away? Ratters just POS up and go AFK or change systems. You can't be harmed.

    2. Want to disrupt ratting in a system? Just cloak up and go AFK all day -- they can't fight back unless they happen to bait you during the 1 hour per day that you're at your keyboard.

    3. Want to get the roaming gang shitting up your space to fuck off but don't have enough people to fight? Just dock up -- you won't lose anything from not fighting.

    I could go on but this is the basic gist of things as they stand. Note that #1 and #2 are evil twin inverses of one another and that the *best solution for both party* is still to go AFK rather than fight. It is stupid, and this happens solely because nothing is worth fighting over except moons. (The sole exception here might be "the ability to undock in a staging system" which we regularly fight over in VFK or whatever, but still small change in comparison to a moon.)

    What the game needs is objectives that are worth bringing a small gang to try to claim and worth undocking a fleet to defend. The infrastructure hub in each system would be a perfect target for this if a small gang could try to "disrupt" it using hacking modules and field control. For example, what if all ratting bounties were not awarded immediately, but instead collected by the ihub for "CONCORD verification" during a specific time period each day. If a gang rolls up and disrupts the ihub during that time, they can claim the entire package of ratting bounties for the past 23 hours. Presto -- instant incentive for the owners to undock and actually play EVE online rather than just safing up all of their [s]bots[/s] enthusiastic ratters until the bad guys go away.

    There are a billion things I could think of and I know I've suggested ihub-related shit before so I won't go on and on -- but this is what the game needs, not the removal of local, which would just turn nullsec into a wasteland and further promote an already-unfairly-advantaged highsec in terms of ISKmaking opportunities.

  8. Statler MpozoY's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 May
    Location
    Theta Squad
    Posts
    3,050
    R/P
    0.014426229508197
    Power
    10
    The problem is that those mechanics break when there's just not anyone around to defend at that hour, and there just aren't anywhere near enough unique nullsec inhabitants to fill all space in all timezones.

  9. Banned
    Joined
    2011 Dec
    Location
    CDIAT
    Posts
    7,823
    R/P
    1.3067876773616
    Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Iratus View Post
    I think nullsec should be left to the blobs. Just make another area of space where small gangs have things to do. Add new null-sec space, without sov, without static resources and without local. Make an area where black-ops are actually useful. Blobs here would be less than optimal because they'd be easy to track, easy to avoid, and easy to bomb away with a well placed covert drop. Forget about structure-based ownership, hell, forget about ownership of space! Just add an activity counter (showing both PvP and PvE stats) to give the e-peeners something to point on a map and say "hey, that's us!".

    Leave nullsec to the huge space empires that amass armies of warm bodies and fight node-crashing battles. Of course, structure shooting needs work, and there should obviously be some farms and fields to burn, but space empires and wulfpax are irreconciliable, and as both should have a place in the game, both should have a homeland of sorts.
    PvE folks would definitely not elect to live in such space, seeing as spamming d-scan would be the only way to spot anyone (as with wormholes but less lucrative). If I want to do anoms or belt rat, I'll do it where I can see local, and if I want to rat where there's no local, I'll do it where I'm making at least 100m/hour.

  10. The Ethics of Madness Iratus's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Nov
    Location
    npc corp... yay?
    Posts
    1,539
    R/P
    0.40155945419103
    Power
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Hilmar Keller View Post
    PvE folks would definitely not elect to live in such space, seeing as spamming d-scan would be the only way to spot anyone (as with wormholes but less lucrative). If I want to do anoms or belt rat, I'll do it where I can see local, and if I want to rat where there's no local, I'll do it where I'm making at least 100m/hour.
    Just add some resource that can only be found there, and people will flock in. Wormholes are a pain in the arse to live in, but people do it anyway because it's the only source of sleeper shit. Since this new regions would not require you to worry about your ship's mass, scanning entrances and exists, and other nightmares of wormhole space, I think it'd be more atractive to pve folk. Hell, I bet lots of nullsec dwellers would dive in with their ratting boats to cash in, and then return to their homes (I'd do it).
    [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/hChYV.png[/IMG]

    "Every rifter counts friend" - VR

  11. Legitimate Rape Baby
    Joined
    2010 May
    Location
    Living the Hobo life
    Posts
    3,611
    R/P
    0.44696759900305
    Power
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Hilmar Keller View Post
    PvE folks would definitely not elect to live in such space, seeing as spamming d-scan would be the only way to spot anyone (as with wormholes but less lucrative). If I want to do anoms or belt rat, I'll do it where I can see local, and if I want to rat where there's no local, I'll do it where I'm making at least 100m/hour.
    Make them more lucrative, then.

    I do think wormhole style local in Null is a bit too far but a time lag (maybe longer the lower truesec is?) would be a good idea. The incoming party needs to experience the delay as well.

    Fill the new space with good moons and a higher chance of complexes spawning and jews like me will come.

    And for the love of god, don't make it so we have to go 30 brazillian jumps to get there! Part of why some of the space is so underutilized has to do with how far you have to go to get there.

  12. Don't try to solve serious matters in the middle of the night Zagdul's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Aug
    Location
    Shopping
    Posts
    1,988
    R/P
    0.68360160965795
    Power
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Manfred Hideous View Post
    Make them more lucrative, then.

    I do think wormhole style local in Null is a bit too far but a time lag (maybe longer the lower truesec is?) would be a good idea. The incoming party needs to experience the delay as well.

    Fill the new space with good moons and a higher chance of complexes spawning and jews like me will come.

    And for the love of god, don't make it so we have to go 30 brazillian jumps to get there! Part of why some of the space is so underutilized has to do with how far you have to go to get there.
    I'm on the exact opposite opinion.

    The reason there are less people to fight in null sec and when you jump into local they warp off is that you have the intelligent people (for the most part) left. In my opinion we need to make it more inviting and easier for typical empire bears to be attracted to null space, this will create targets it will then give a reason to roam space.

  13. The church of Batman the redeemer needs you Nicky D's Avatar
    Joined
    2009 Aug
    Location
    stINK zone
    Posts
    708
    R/P
    1.2754237288136
    Power
    6
    no, we need bigger disincentives to capture and live in nullsec space.
    this is the only way a plucky new alliance is going to bother tangling with powerblocs like the CFC is if they can't even defend or rat in their space due to lack of local and no real rewards for doing so compared to highsec or wormhole space.

  14. Don't try to solve serious matters in the middle of the night Teh Ashen's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Nov
    Location
    The Narrative.
    Posts
    1,971
    R/P
    2.0512430238458
    Power
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicky D View Post
    no, we need bigger disincentives to capture and live in nullsec space.
    this is the only way a plucky new alliance is going to bother tangling with powerblocs like the CFC is if they can't even defend or rat in their space due to lack of local and no real rewards for doing so compared to highsec or wormhole space.
    Periods and capitalization are your friend.
    HILMAR DIED 4 YORU SINZ

  15. Becalmed in Hell Kazanir's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Jul
    Posts
    807
    R/P
    1.0235439900867
    Power
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by Manfred Hideous View Post
    So basically, you prefer to turn it into highsec and war dec each other?

    You're in a big pants alliance/coalition. Strategic objectives and massive fights are what you look for. I prefer flying in fleets of 10 to 12 people and I'd like to get back into tooling around by myself. I guess you could say the mechanics you and I look for are different in large part because we don't play the same Eve?
    How the fuck do you get that out of what he posted man?

    What he's saying is that the average nullsec resident is too smart to be easily ganked by roaming gangs. Make nullsec *apparently* easier to get into and there will be more idiots to "PvP" with or at least people to shoot, which is a start. This is why I am HUGELY, HUGELY pro-local in its current form -- it gives people the illusion of safety and a "floor" of intel level that makes people comfortable with "doing stuff" in nullsec. Now, maybe those people need to be easier to catch or shoot, but:

    a) removing local isn't the way to do that, it would just force people into highsec incursion or wormholes depending on their tastes and

    b) the cfc's killboards do demonstrate that there are a lot of idiots living in nullsec still who are really easy to kill despite Sec's talk about how impossible it is to catch a ratter

    Anyway, I would be very much in favor of ~gameplay mechanics~ that would make it easier to catch ratters and especially to catch bots but I can't think of any cogent ideas off the top of my head. The stuff about local is dumb though; people don't realize how much of a core gameplay mechanic the local channel is and how much the game would change if it were altered.

  16. The Mote in God's Eye HeliconOne's Avatar
    Joined
    2008 Jun
    Posts
    568
    R/P
    0.10739436619718
    Power
    7
    I love the "we spent two hours roaming 50 jumps and only killed 2 ratters" comments when combined with a call to remove local, since local acts just as much as a tool for finding targets as it does for spotting incoming gankers. The end result of losing it would be that you still spend 2 hours roaming, but only made it through 25 jumps because you had to stop and scan every system for targets rather than just 'ok, nobody in here guys, jump through and warp to the next gate' (not to mention the empty drakes left abandoned in every POS to fuck over the d-scanners), only to find that you skill get fuck all for kills because most of the would-be targets have fucked off beck to L4s and highsec incursions anyway.

    Seems that what these guys really mean is that local should be removed for everyone else but not themselves.

  17. The Ethics of Madness Iratus's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Nov
    Location
    npc corp... yay?
    Posts
    1,539
    R/P
    0.40155945419103
    Power
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Securitas View Post
    I think what was mentioned before was diminishing-returns timers where if you have 1 guy on grid it takes a really long time, is easily doable in less than an hour with 20 dudes, and peaks around 50. Then sov war is more about the actual fight between two entities regardless of how large they are or whether they have a supercap fleet or not. It also makes grinding undefended space much more easy.

    So essentially you fly what best counters the hostiles you're invading instead of needing a supercap fleet or dreadnoughts or whatever to grind through an ihub. Sorry if I'm incoherent; it's 5 am and I just finished an LoTR marathon.
    Diminishing returns don't work against the blob. A 250 strong fleet would just hit 5 objectives at a time, or stand guard ouside of the one they are hitting, acting as reinforcements that immediatly replace the ships that die, while camping a gate or station.

    "Meaningful Small gang PvP" and fortified space empires don't mix, all you can have is farms and fields to burn in a hit-and-run fashion, as any meaningful objective will be defended/attacked with any warm body available, and no matter the mechanic you add to try and change that, having more people will always be an advantage (even if you instance the objectives), having reinforcements ready will turn the battle into one of atrition... one where the blob has the advantage. If you are the vietcong, you don't charge head-on into american bases with your plucky band of armed peasants, you hide in the forest where the imperialist pigs' army can't find you with ease and strike when the opportunity arises (yes, a real-life analogy, fuck you).

    If you want to have a place for small entities, you need to give them a place to hide. Guerrilla warfare is the only game where small armies beat huge ones, and that requires stealth, stealth that is impossible with nullsec's local mechanics regardless of any 30 seconds delay you might add; NPC null is not an option for guerrilla warfare, as any small entity basing off there will be on plain sight and immediatly camped into a station. If you remove local, you'll be removing the nullbears that you need to keep those regions alive, so leave nullsec as the place for huge armies with easy local intel and add more space with mechanics between a wormhole and nullsec, where small entities can actually hide to strike huge empires.

    If CCP gives nullsec some kind of farm that average members can care about (POCOS are shit because fuck PI and their HP, but they are a step in the right direction), those small entities coming from the new space can burn them on and on untill the average member of space empire 1245 says fuck it and forms a fleet to try and hunt them out, or says fuck it and moves somewhere else, effectively collapsing space empire 1245. Give those farms a chance to drop loot (say, anchorable factories that at once boost nullsec manufacturing and provide said farms) and you've got yourself raiding parties with something to gain.

    People won't patrol the space to defend it if you give them a mediocre local, they'll just pos up when the first report of a gank comes to the intel channels. You'll be effectively making nullsec a d-scan-based nighmare to live in in exchange for a few ganks with no opposition... if that's the PvP you want, you may as well go gank miners in highsec.
    [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/hChYV.png[/IMG]

    "Every rifter counts friend" - VR

  18. Legitimate Rape Baby
    Joined
    2010 May
    Location
    Living the Hobo life
    Posts
    3,611
    R/P
    0.44696759900305
    Power
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazanir View Post
    How the fuck do you get that out of what he posted man?

    What he's saying is that the average nullsec resident is too smart to be easily ganked by roaming gangs. Make nullsec *apparently* easier to get into and there will be more idiots to "PvP" with or at least people to shoot, which is a start. This is why I am HUGELY, HUGELY pro-local in its current form -- it gives people the illusion of safety and a "floor" of intel level that makes people comfortable with "doing stuff" in nullsec. Now, maybe those people need to be easier to catch or shoot, but:

    a) removing local isn't the way to do that, it would just force people into highsec incursion or wormholes depending on their tastes and

    b) the cfc's killboards do demonstrate that there are a lot of idiots living in nullsec still who are really easy to kill despite Sec's talk about how impossible it is to catch a ratter

    Anyway, I would be very much in favor of ~gameplay mechanics~ that would make it easier to catch ratters and especially to catch bots but I can't think of any cogent ideas off the top of my head. The stuff about local is dumb though; people don't realize how much of a core gameplay mechanic the local channel is and how much the game would change if it were altered.
    Someone slip a douchebag pill into your coffee, asshat?

    a) First, I don't want to remove local, you stupid fuck. Re-read what I've been saying about delays. Short ones, at that.
    b) The average guy in null is too smart to be ganked while ratting, remember?
    c) I also said it would never happen, so you're getting all dumbfuckered over nothing.

  19. The Ethics of Madness Iratus's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Nov
    Location
    npc corp... yay?
    Posts
    1,539
    R/P
    0.40155945419103
    Power
    7
    Kids, kids, calm down.
    [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/hChYV.png[/IMG]

    "Every rifter counts friend" - VR

  20. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Quesa's Avatar
    Joined
    2009 Dec
    Location
    Taking wagers on Soho's return to custody.
    Posts
    3,560
    R/P
    1.4949438202247
    Blog Entries
    4
    Power
    17
    The problem with local is that it gives too much good intel without any effort. There is no better intel tool in the game apart from someone in another fleet giving you up to the minute updates of what the fleet comp is, where and when it is moving. My biggest problem is that it removes a necessary role of recon from the game in trade for hopping into the next system to take a gander at the local channel.

    W-space like Local is exactly what I'd like to see but I also realize that the current tools in game to supplement the loss of the intel from Local would need some major overhaul before we get to that state. I've been to W-space many times and mashing the d-scan is no fun and downright retarded.

  21. Becalmed in Hell ReallyMatter's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Apr
    Location
    Siphoning yo moons
    Posts
    819
    R/P
    0.53724053724054
    Power
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdul View Post
    I'm on the exact opposite opinion.

    The reason there are less people to fight in null sec and when you jump into local they warp off is that you have the intelligent people (for the most part) left. In my opinion we need to make it more inviting and easier for typical empire bears to be attracted to null space, this will create targets it will then give a reason to roam space.

    I have to agree with that 100%

    People who live in 0.0 are not retards for the most part and know when to leave a belt and get safe when a neutral enters local, not to mention when you have populated space where every enemy movement is followed in internal intel channels, so when you get 2-3 jumps into roaming territory people already know what ship your in how many of what you have and who is the scout both fore and rear.

    There is nothing you can do, no patch you can envision that will make smart people not wanting to throw their spaceship into your jaws needlessly do so.

  22. Becalmed in Hell ReallyMatter's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Apr
    Location
    Siphoning yo moons
    Posts
    819
    R/P
    0.53724053724054
    Power
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by HeliconOne View Post
    I love the "we spent two hours roaming 50 jumps and only killed 2 ratters" comments when combined with a call to remove local, since local acts just as much as a tool for finding targets as it does for spotting incoming gankers. The end result of losing it would be that you still spend 2 hours roaming, but only made it through 25 jumps because you had to stop and scan every system for targets rather than just 'ok, nobody in here guys, jump through and warp to the next gate' (not to mention the empty drakes left abandoned in every POS to fuck over the d-scanners), only to find that you skill get fuck all for kills because most of the would-be targets have fucked off beck to L4s and highsec incursions anyway.

    Seems that what these guys really mean is that local should be removed for everyone else but not themselves.


    True words spoken here

  23. Don't try to solve serious matters in the middle of the night Zagdul's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Aug
    Location
    Shopping
    Posts
    1,988
    R/P
    0.68360160965795
    Power
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Quesa View Post
    The problem with local is that it gives too much good intel without any effort. There is no better intel tool in the game apart from someone in another fleet giving you up to the minute updates of what the fleet comp is, where and when it is moving. My biggest problem is that it removes a necessary role of recon from the game in trade for hopping into the next system to take a gander at the local channel.

    W-space like Local is exactly what I'd like to see but I also realize that the current tools in game to supplement the loss of the intel from Local would need some major overhaul before we get to that state. I've been to W-space many times and mashing the d-scan is no fun and downright retarded.
    This is due to the fact that null has become less and less profitable for the average person / grunt (mostly due to inflation and ships costing more yet no new sources of income for the average pilot have been introduced). There not enough of a draw for people to be in null sec. Therefore, as easy as 'local' is, less people are failing at watching it. Right now you've got, for the most part, the bright, quick to react grunts living there.

    Basically, for small gang warfare, null sec is turning into low sec. Dominion got one thing correct and it was the havens and sanctums in every system. When they changed this, they fucked the roaming gangs because now, with everyone centralized in the low security systems, my alliance knows exactly where the gangs go and how to defend. We've found it easier to catch black ops because we know where/who they're gonna hit. This change was a nerf to pvp and pve when they took them away. They focused where the pvp happens making defending easier so droppin' bitches is harder. At the same time, they took income away from grunts, then introduced incursions and there was a mass exodus to empire. Getting those dudes back into null sec, spread around and into their 'safe corner' of null sec will be what gets you your ganks and ratter kills.

    You need to make the mechanics support having pilots in null sec and inviting. Then, leave it to the players to make it dangerous/risky or, to defend and make it safe. If you ask me, this far into the future and with the advanced tech, there should be an early warning system in game that tells me and blows up my radar letting me know that bad dudes have entered my radar. However, local is subtle and for those who don't pay attention, it's easily missed.

    From the opposite perspective, when I'm out roaming, when I jump into a system, I should have an instant notification of some sort that informs me of how many hostiles/friendlies at a glance. I think that d-scan is retarded and should function automatically. When I open a solar system map and do a d'scan, the 'cone' and direction of said d-scan should show my results.

    Even better... I'd like to have the ability to put my probes through a gate before entering a system.

  24. Animal Kingdom tgr's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Jan
    Location
    Fix Sov
    Posts
    8,068
    R/P
    0.82337630143778
    Power
    27
    Ah. It's the "remove local" time of year again.

    The last time I discussed this on eve-o, I was called a carebear because I wanted to incentivize people into leaving hisec for nullsec riches, when all I wanted was exactly what f.ex Zagdul is saying, i.e. make more dumb people inhabit nullsec instead of trying to skew the balance more in favor of the roaming gangs. All you'll end up doing then is make it even more attractive to just do your isk-making in hisec, it solves nothing and it degrades nullsec even further for the roaming gang guys.

    But I'm sure a lot of roaming gang guys don't see this logic, all they probably see is "wah let me keep my ~perfect intel~ so I can rat in ~perfect safety~" or something, I dunno.
    Turning pretend colourblind angels from spaceship to madship samurais, one post at a time.

  25. We're Only in It for the Money pinoyzzz's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Jan
    Location
    ~dota 2~
    Posts
    1,076
    R/P
    0.58364312267658
    Power
    7
    I don't think anyone here is seriously advocating removing local in 0.0 and making it like W-space.

    But a middle ground like no local standings could help a great deal.

  26. Animal Kingdom tgr's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Jan
    Location
    Fix Sov
    Posts
    8,068
    R/P
    0.82337630143778
    Power
    27
    Thing is, though, while those who roam bitch and moan and whine about how local is overpowered or how it's ~perfect safety~ in nullsec, I'm sitting in jita 4-4, and within in a few weeks I'll have gone from having enough isk to pimpfit a supercarrier, to be able to afford a titan, and I don't even have to undock for that. Or I can run around in incursions, L4s etc and, unless I'm dumb and pimpfit a machariael or whatever, never get popped.

    What incentives are there to get me into nullsec again?

    Edit: Err, I should specify that question as why should I go into nullsec to make money.
    Turning pretend colourblind angels from spaceship to madship samurais, one post at a time.

  27. Don't try to solve serious matters in the middle of the night Zagdul's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Aug
    Location
    Shopping
    Posts
    1,988
    R/P
    0.68360160965795
    Power
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by pinoyzzz View Post
    I don't think anyone here is seriously advocating removing local in 0.0 and making it like W-space.

    But a middle ground like no local standings could help a great deal.
    Can you explain to me what the middle ground is? And if no, can you then argue that anything should currently change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grath View Post
    Nothing, but not everybody can do what you do, so you have your place in the eco system, and theres nothing thats ever going to prompt you out there for financial reasons. Nothing, even if nullsec was wort 5 times what it is an hour, so that every newbie can buy gtc's after an hours labor in 0.0, if the rats rained isk, would make you shoot them.

    You don't like it, and you won't like it, you don't NEED to put yourself in that position.


    The same that bob the dick builder is perfectly happy sitting in empire making a million off of each BS he builds so he builds 100 a day just sitting in a station running minerals back and forth.


    Nothing will ever make you want to go out there and do that for your means to survive. You've posted exactly that.



    The act of ratting in 0.0 safely out of whack where balance is concerned, and tying that argument to the financial gain of the act of ratting is non starter since they are two separate issues. If you think financially that 0.0's rewards are less than ideal, great, I don't disagree. But thats not whats at question, whats at question is how critically limiting local is to the dynamic of the game in its current constant all seeing eye form.

    Its funny to see people argue about how its fair for there to be no local in wormholes because there's no gates.


    Those people that live in wormholes, AHARM and the like, that actually live in the wormhole, know you're inside minutes after you're there. They can judge by the wormhole how much has passed through it, and perhaps some kind of recent traffic counter on a gate would help, like this gate recently processed xxxtons of ships in the last x minutes. Regardless, those people live in a system, they patrol and are active in their single system to the point that they know when you move around.
    Grath, know the best part of what happened with the Dominion expansion?

    It brought a fuck-ton of people to null sec. I remember running hot drop gangs and catching dudes almost once an hour. We could sit in a constellation for an hour and be hunting 3-4 targets and at a minimum have a chance to drop on at least 2 of them.


    I check our space, we've got some dumb dudes and I watch how they play. They've gotten smart.

    This is assuming that VLV is any good, but... Virtual Life Vanguard decided to sit in our home system of L-C and camp our ratters for about 2 months straight. Their cyno chars were spread out across the region. They caught a few barges, maybe a hauler or two. But we killed more than them then they did of us. Of course they won the isk war as bombers and an occasional recon can't keep up with a single tengu.

    The point is, those fuckers were bored. They had 1-2 systems in a constellation they could camp. If you remove local, as you suggest, sure that team of VLV bads can get kill after kill. But, you'll chase the rest of those potential targets they currently have out in the process. They won't want to live in that kind of environment either.

    The tears and fun for the dudes going for fights will last a month while we have a second exodus to empire.

    Then, what will you have left?

  28. Inconstant Moon John Caffeine's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Apr
    Location
    Rooks and Kings
    Posts
    654
    R/P
    2.1299694189602
    Power
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdul View Post
    Can you explain to me what the middle ground is? And if no, can you then argue that anything should currently change?



    Grath, know the best part of what happened with the Dominion expansion?

    It brought a fuck-ton of people to null sec. I remember running hot drop gangs and catching dudes almost once an hour. We could sit in a constellation for an hour and be hunting 3-4 targets and at a minimum have a chance to drop on at least 2 of them.


    I check our space, we've got some dumb dudes and I watch how they play. They've gotten smart.

    This is assuming that VLV is any good, but... Virtual Life Vanguard decided to sit in our home system of L-C and camp our ratters for about 2 months straight. Their cyno chars were spread out across the region. They caught a few barges, maybe a hauler or two. But we killed more than them then they did of us. Of course they won the isk war as bombers and an occasional recon can't keep up with a single tengu.

    The point is, those fuckers were bored. They had 1-2 systems in a constellation they could camp. If you remove local, as you suggest, sure that team of VLV bads can get kill after kill. But, you'll chase the rest of those potential targets they currently have out in the process. They won't want to live in that kind of environment either.

    The tears and fun for the dudes going for fights will last a month while we have a second exodus to empire.

    Then, what will you have left?
    Removing local WH style probably isn't the best solution, but making it a bit delayed would make things a lot more interesting. I'd love to see it 5 minutes or so delayed, but even making it so you don't show up in local until you decloak would go a long way.

    Even so, I don't think removing it would be all that bad. WH people manage just fine, because they work together and are willing to take risks; they even do this in systems in which gates, well WHs, can spawn in their system anywhere at anytime, with hostiles looking to gank them on the other side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdul View Post
    I check our space, we've got some dumb dudes and I watch how they play. They've gotten smart.
    How have they gotten smarter? I've only noticed people being more risk adverse and ever, they're not really smarter, just more cowardly.

  29. The church of Batman the redeemer needs you
    Joined
    2011 Feb
    Location
    inquisitive_housefly.gif
    Posts
    725
    R/P
    1.4689655172414
    Power
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by John Caffeine View Post
    How have they gotten smarter? I've only noticed people being more risk adverse and ever, they're not really smarter, just more cowardly.
    I do believe that is exactly what he means

  30. Animal Kingdom tgr's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Jan
    Location
    Fix Sov
    Posts
    8,068
    R/P
    0.82337630143778
    Power
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by John Caffeine View Post
    Removing local WH style probably isn't the best solution, but making it a bit delayed would make things a lot more interesting. I'd love to see it 5 minutes or so delayed, but even making it so you don't show up in local until you decloak would go a long way.
    This is a solution. What's the problem it's supposed to solve?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Caffeine View Post
    How have they gotten smarter? I've only noticed people being more risk adverse and ever, they're not really smarter, just more cowardly.
    What would they have to do to be categorized as "smarter"?
    Turning pretend colourblind angels from spaceship to madship samurais, one post at a time.

  31. Statler MpozoY's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 May
    Location
    Theta Squad
    Posts
    3,050
    R/P
    0.014426229508197
    Power
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by John Caffeine View Post
    Removing local WH style probably isn't the best solution, but making it a bit delayed would make things a lot more interesting. I'd love to see it 5 minutes or so delayed, but even making it so you don't show up in local until you decloak would go a long way.

    Even so, I don't think removing it would be all that bad. WH people manage just fine, because they work together and are willing to take risks; they even do this in systems in which gates, well WHs, can spawn in their system anywhere at anytime, with hostiles looking to gank them on the other side.
    A 5 minute local delay is as good as no local at all when it comes to dodging gankers - yet it gives all the benefits of local to the gankers themselves. I can't see a delay till uncloak having any meaningful effect. Again, there's no real problem that fiddling with local can appropriately address, if you're ganking your problem is too few, too risk-averse targets, and if you want real PvP your problem is getting timely combat.

    Wormholes are terrible counterarguments for self-obvious reasons; living in them is shitty enough (between logistics and d-scan mashing) that the population is heavily limited, and the income generated between PvP occurrences is so great that the WH guys loudly exclaim their biggest hassle is moving their replacement pimpships into the hole. In null there's no way in hell you're paying to replace a Tengu in the hour or two between gangs coming through; it's a no-brainer that risk-adversity is going to rule the day.

  32. We're Only in It for the Money pinoyzzz's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Jan
    Location
    ~dota 2~
    Posts
    1,076
    R/P
    0.58364312267658
    Power
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdul View Post
    Can you explain to me what the middle ground is? And if no, can you then argue that anything should currently change?
    No local standings is the middleground -- not just for 0.0, but everywhere. This is how Eve was in the period 2003-2007.

    You would not see any standings in the local chat channel - everyone would appear neutral. To clarify, only people in the chat channel would appear neutral -- people on the overview would have their red/blue standings shown as it is today. To know someone is actually friendly or hostile, you would have to know the character, see them in space, or right click the character's bio to see alliance/corp/personal standings.

    When local is relatively small (< 15) nothing really changes. However for larger system numbers, it introduces an element of chaos of not knowing how many friendlies or hostiles are in system. Not only does this make roaming better, as you can easily slip by unnoticed into large systems, but fleet warfare also becomes more uncertain and tactical. Scouts would actually have to scout. Empire is also more dangerous if you're at war.

    There are ways to game the no-standings system, such as adding people as contacts or using portrait caches - but both are relatively cumbersome and ineffective. Contact numbers are limited now, and CCP can stamp its foot against portrait cache standings (it's also pretty ineffective).

  33. Becalmed in Hell ReallyMatter's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Apr
    Location
    Siphoning yo moons
    Posts
    819
    R/P
    0.53724053724054
    Power
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by John Caffeine View Post


    How have they gotten smarter? I've only noticed people being more risk adverse and ever, they're not really smarter, just more cowardly.

    Yes because it is so brave to drive your ratting/plexing ship into 20 man roaming fleet, or better yet you should attack them in your Hulk, that will show your bravery and prove your not an idiot.

    I dont see why when neutrals come into local you getting safe in your isk making asset is cowardly, seems pretty dam smart to me.

  34. Inconstant Moon John Caffeine's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Apr
    Location
    Rooks and Kings
    Posts
    654
    R/P
    2.1299694189602
    Power
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by ReallyMatter View Post
    Yes because it is so brave to drive your ratting/plexing ship into 20 man roaming fleet, or better yet you should attack them in your Hulk, that will show your bravery and prove your not an idiot.

    I dont see why when neutrals come into local you getting safe in your isk making asset is cowardly, seems pretty dam smart to me.
    When there's neutrals in local I usually get into a pvp ship and go fight them; if I'm too outnumbered to do so myself I get my corpmates to join me.

    There's too many dudes out there so scared of dying outside of fleetfights they'll rather hide out in a POS/safespot 'til local is completly clear rather than get into a PvP ship and battle shit out. That, to me at least, make them cowards.

  35. Don't stop posting! Grath's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Aug
    Location
    PL
    Posts
    6,002
    R/P
    1.9310229923359
    Power
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by MpozoY View Post
    Again, there's no real problem that fiddling with local can appropriately address
    What you mean like recons not being able to be sneaky so a cloak is just a sight gag.


    You can't follow somebody without being seen in the vastness of space.


    You can't move fleets without it being known every single move you do.


    You can't have any surprises in fleet combat, no hidden cards to throw on the table because 1 million sp alts have scouted it all safely from a safe spot in local hours before hand.



    You cant have any surprise engagements at all, period, everything is plainly on the table.







    Yea, I'd say that none of that could be fixed by fiddling with Local, yet Zagdul keeps going on about how being a risk averse cunt is supposed to make everything ok and totally validate the reason why such a broken mechanic works. Hunters are supposed to just deal with it but if a fucking sign went up game wide every time somebody started ratting on the ingame map it wouldn't be.....oh wait, it wouldn't matter if you did that anyway because the second anybody entered local they'd just fucking safe up anyway.

    The fundamental disconnect here is that ratters, ratters who don't bot so they can't get awoxed, and those that actively sit at their computer, are 100% safe, there is literally no chance they get caught unless they move systems. People like MpozoY and Zagdul see this as something thats working as intended, because of course in 0.0 you should be completely safe while you jew.....

  36. Animal Kingdom tgr's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Jan
    Location
    Fix Sov
    Posts
    8,068
    R/P
    0.82337630143778
    Power
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by John Caffeine View Post
    When there's neutrals in local I usually get into a pvp ship and go fight them; if I'm too outnumbered to do so myself I get my corpmates to join me.

    There's too many dudes out there so scared of dying outside of fleetfights they'll rather hide out in a POS/safespot 'til local is completly clear rather than get into a PvP ship and battle shit out. That, to me at least, make them cowards.
    Cowardly, or just . It's very easy to just go "meh, I'll do L4s instead" if they lose too many ships. vOv

    And there grath goes again, focusing on how ~completely safe~ it is (it isn't vOv), instead of trying to think of how he can get more dumb fucks into nullsec so there are more people who will fuck up. That is, unless he wants those people to stay in hisec and do missions or incursions instead, which'll be a huge boon to their roams. At least there won't be people jewing in ~complete safety~ in nullsec, right?
    Turning pretend colourblind angels from spaceship to madship samurais, one post at a time.

  37. Don't stop posting! Grath's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Aug
    Location
    PL
    Posts
    6,002
    R/P
    1.9310229923359
    Power
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    Cowardly, or just . It's very easy to just go "meh, I'll do L4s instead" if they lose too many ships. vOv

    And there grath goes again, focusing on how ~completely safe~ it is (it isn't vOv), instead of trying to think of how he can get more dumb fucks into nullsec so there are more people who will fuck up. That is, unless he wants those people to stay in hisec and do missions or incursions instead, which'll be a huge boon to their roams. At least there won't be people jewing in ~complete safety~ in nullsec, right?
    You're like the US congress right now, stop trying to add shit thats a seperate issue to the problem of a broken all seeing god eye local that ruins the vastness of space and all of the tactical options that being in that space should allow.

    We're talking about seatbelt laws and you're trying to add in something about Anti Lock Breaks to the law. Regardless of your relation to it getting more people into 0.0 has nothing to do with how completely broken the intel feed 0.0 local gives you is.

  38. Inconstant Moon John Caffeine's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Apr
    Location
    Rooks and Kings
    Posts
    654
    R/P
    2.1299694189602
    Power
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    Cowardly, or just . It's very easy to just go "meh, I'll do L4s instead" if they lose too many ships. vOv

    And there grath goes again, focusing on how ~completely safe~ it is (it isn't vOv), instead of trying to think of how he can get more dumb fucks into nullsec so there are more people who will fuck up. That is, unless he wants those people to stay in hisec and do missions or incursions instead, which'll be a huge boon to their roams. At least there won't be people jewing in ~complete safety~ in nullsec, right?
    It's pretty obvious hisec incursions need to be nerfed hard. That's not really what we're discussing though, so I have no idea why it's you've brought it up.

    And getting more cowards into nullsec where they learn the secret of how never ever to get caught while PvEing (just keep an eye on local), won't really make anything better. I'm not saying shit should be easy mode for roamers, but the only way you'll ever get caught ratting is if you're afk, half sleeping or complety retarted. At least making it so you won't appear in local until you decloak from jump-in will give the hunter half a chance to catch someone actually watching their screen once in a while, as the ratter won't have a 30+ seconds before he even needs to start aligning. He'll stand a decent chance of figuring out where somone is before declaoking, but once he decloaks and warps there's still time for the ratter to warp off if he's on the ball.

    I like the idea of removing local, or giving it a delay of like 2-5 minutes, but I understand why it would upset a lot of people.

  39. Don't stop posting! Grath's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Aug
    Location
    PL
    Posts
    6,002
    R/P
    1.9310229923359
    Power
    27
    No no john you don't understand, they went through the harrowing trials of taking (being given) their space they should just BE safe now don't you see.

  40. The Mote in God's Eye HeliconOne's Avatar
    Joined
    2008 Jun
    Posts
    568
    R/P
    0.10739436619718
    Power
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by John Caffeine View Post
    It's pretty obvious hisec incursions need to be nerfed hard. That's not really what we're discussing though, so I have no idea why it's you've brought it up.
    Because if people can make more income incursioning or L4ing or whatever in highsec with CONCORD to hold their hand than they do in your no-local danger zone PvPtopia, what is your roaming gang going to shoot at, exactly?

  41. Promiscuous Far's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Nov
    Location
    Food TESTing
    Posts
    496
    R/P
    0.88709677419355
    Power
    4
    It is kind of sad that blops and titan drops are pretty much the closest thing to surprise buttseks in nullsec.

    Even if there were no local, it isn't hard to scout a gate.

  42. Don't stop posting! Grath's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Aug
    Location
    PL
    Posts
    6,002
    R/P
    1.9310229923359
    Power
    27
    yea, and even the surprise is really taken out of those.

  43. Animal Kingdom tgr's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Jan
    Location
    Fix Sov
    Posts
    8,068
    R/P
    0.82337630143778
    Power
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Grath View Post
    No no john you don't understand, they went through the harrowing trials of taking (being given) their space they should just BE safe now don't you see.
    Yeah, see, this is exactly the shortsightedness I was talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Caffeine View Post
    It's pretty obvious hisec incursions need to be nerfed hard. That's not really what we're discussing though, so I have no idea why it's you've brought it up.
    The reason I brought them up is, if you want to get more people into nullsec so there's more people to shoot at, you're going to have to appeal to people who are sensitive to risk and/or effort, and who are currently choosing not to be there right now because the risk/effort to reward ratio doesn't make it worth it to them to leave hisec L4s or incursion. Or even just whatever it is they're doing there, research, copying BPOs or inventing perhaps.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Caffeine View Post
    And getting more cowards into nullsec where they learn the secret of how never ever to get caught while PvEing (just keep an eye on local), won't really make anything better.
    Yes, it will. It doesn't take being AFK, half sleeping or completely retarded to get caught, all it takes is the right bit of inattentiveness at the right time. The more people there are somewhere, the easier it is to hide yourself in the local window, and the easier it is to catch people unaware.

    I, for example, frequently spent my early days in nullsec with stargate sg1 on one monitor and EVE on the other, while I mined or ratted. That created quite a few "oh fuck" situations because it took anywhere between 0 and 20 seconds (or more) before I noticed them. Mining and ratting is boring, keeping vigilent for hours on end while doing something boring is hard. It will catch someone out.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Caffeine View Post
    I like the idea of removing local, or giving it a delay of like 2-5 minutes, but I understand why it would upset a lot of people.
    It's not so much that it'd upset people, as it would completely remove any incentive f.ex I would have to even consider starting to mine again, because the effort it would entail to keep safe in that environment, given the rewards that would provide vs what I could get by just making money in empire instead, makes that option a retarded one to choose. This means that even fewer people would be active in nullsec, which means you roamers would whine even harder about how hard it was to find anything to gank while roaming.
    Turning pretend colourblind angels from spaceship to madship samurais, one post at a time.

  44. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Quesa's Avatar
    Joined
    2009 Dec
    Location
    Taking wagers on Soho's return to custody.
    Posts
    3,560
    R/P
    1.4949438202247
    Blog Entries
    4
    Power
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by Grath View Post
    What you mean like recons not being able to be sneaky so a cloak is just a sight gag.

    You can't follow somebody without being seen in the vastness of space.

    You can't move fleets without it being known every single move you do.

    You can't have any surprises in fleet combat, no hidden cards to throw on the table because 1 million sp alts have scouted it all safely from a safe spot in local hours before hand.

    You cant have any surprise engagements at all, period, everything is plainly on the table.
    Highlights exactly what I believe Local severely limits, if not eliminates entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by tgr View Post
    I, for example, frequently spent my early days in nullsec with stargate sg1 on one monitor and EVE on the other, while I mined or ratted. That created quite a few "oh fuck" situations because it took anywhere between 0 and 20 seconds (or more) before I noticed them. Mining and ratting is boring, keeping vigilent for hours on end while doing something boring is hard. It will catch someone out.


    It's not so much that it'd upset people, as it would completely remove any incentive f.ex I would have to even consider starting to mine again, because the effort it would entail to keep safe in that environment, given the rewards that would provide vs what I could get by just making money in empire instead, makes that option a retarded one to choose. This means that even fewer people would be active in nullsec, which means you roamers would whine even harder about how hard it was to find anything to gank while roaming.
    The main problem I see in debating a change in Local is that people get stuck on the idea that if they do change local, there won't be any change to the tools used for protection, such as the d-scanner. I don't think there is anyone that has a brain that thinks there are acceptable options out there to remove Local as a primary means of intel. Even EO devs, when commenting about changing Local, have stated that it's too good but there aren't tools to replace the loss of intel and d-scan isn't appropriate.

  45. Inconstant Moon Prodnovick's Avatar
    Joined
    2011 Aug
    Location
    Highsec
    Posts
    689
    R/P
    1.0058055152395
    Power
    4
    This local free, small gang pvp nirvana is already in the game. Why don't you guys just go there when you want to hunt ratters with a couple dudes?

    Local is too powerfull as an intel tool but nerfing it won't make nullsec a better place to roam in, unless ccp hits the sweet spot, where someone paying full attention always gets out but the chance to catch others is increased. I don't think ccp will be able to pull it of but who knows?

    It's not like they created a spaceship game where half of the ships is useless, right?

  46. God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Quesa's Avatar
    Joined
    2009 Dec
    Location
    Taking wagers on Soho's return to custody.
    Posts
    3,560
    R/P
    1.4949438202247
    Blog Entries
    4
    Power
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by Prodnovick View Post
    This local free, small gang pvp nirvana is already in the game. Why don't you guys just go there when you want to hunt ratters with a couple dudes?

    Local is too powerfull as an intel tool but nerfing it won't make nullsec a better place to roam in, unless ccp hits the sweet spot, where someone paying full attention always gets out but the chance to catch others is increased. I don't think ccp will be able to pull it of but who knows?

    It's not like they created a spaceship game where half of the ships is useless, right?
    I'm not looking to a Local change to improve roaming. It may or may not. A change will likely improve the overall complexity of the game as it will then require more active reconnaissance and allow ship classes like recons and stealth bombers to actually perform their role more efficiently.

  47. Don't try to solve serious matters in the middle of the night Zagdul's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Aug
    Location
    Shopping
    Posts
    1,988
    R/P
    0.68360160965795
    Power
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Grath View Post
    What you mean like recons not being able to be sneaky so a cloak is just a sight gag.


    You can't follow somebody without being seen in the vastness of space.


    You can't move fleets without it being known every single move you do.


    You can't have any surprises in fleet combat, no hidden cards to throw on the table because 1 million sp alts have scouted it all safely from a safe spot in local hours before hand.



    You cant have any surprise engagements at all, period, everything is plainly on the table.







    Yea, I'd say that none of that could be fixed by fiddling with Local, yet Zagdul keeps going on about how being a risk averse cunt is supposed to make everything ok and totally validate the reason why such a broken mechanic works. Hunters are supposed to just deal with it but if a fucking sign went up game wide every time somebody started ratting on the ingame map it wouldn't be.....oh wait, it wouldn't matter if you did that anyway because the second anybody entered local they'd just fucking safe up anyway.

    The fundamental disconnect here is that ratters, ratters who don't bot so they can't get awoxed, and those that actively sit at their computer, are 100% safe, there is literally no chance they get caught unless they move systems. People like MpozoY and Zagdul see this as something thats working as intended, because of course in 0.0 you should be completely safe while you jew.....
    If a pilot is at his computer, pays attention to intel channels. Properly warps off when hostiles come into system to not lose his expensive ratting ship, yes... I believe the game is worknig as intended. Many of the dudes who are out there, in their ratting tengus are dudes who aren't risk averse, they're just trying to get some isk to pay off their next plex or their next combat ship. Some people still do generate isk this way and in null sec, there are a lot of risks doing this. You're still very likely to lose that shiny toy if you aren't playing smart and playing the game... as it's intended.

    It's no different than the smaller, faster gang who runs away from the larger slower one. My one ratting ship should have a chance to get out if I'm paying attention and faster than my enemy.

    The problem isn't the game or it's mechanics here, the problem is that it's up to you to make null sec dangerous and you are asking for game mechanics to make it easier for you to make it dangerous.

    I'm telling you that there are a lot of really dumb people who don't warp of, who fall for the e-zmode login trap and fail miserably at playing this game.


    I am liking the idea that dudes don't show up in local till decloak.

    oh, and drop probes while cloaked...

  48. Banned
    Joined
    2011 Dec
    Location
    CDIAT
    Posts
    7,823
    R/P
    1.3067876773616
    Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdul View Post
    I am liking the idea that dudes don't show up in local till decloak.

    oh, and drop probes while cloaked...
    I also like these ideas, but I'm iffy on probes while cloaked - I'd have to constantly be hitting D-Scan, since a prober could be in system without being in local. Paired with an update to make D-Scan automatically scan every two seconds or something, it wouldn't be a huge issue.

  49. God damn these electric sex pants Marivauder's Avatar
    Joined
    2011 Feb
    Location
    I'm doing Secret Millionaire
    Posts
    3,711
    R/P
    1.6351387766101
    Power
    17
    All these talks about removing local and all these talks about not removing local


    why don't you just have local work on a distance type of thing, i.e. if a ship is in the space of 10au he appears in local chat or if he talks

  50. Animal Kingdom tgr's Avatar
    Joined
    2010 Jan
    Location
    Fix Sov
    Posts
    8,068
    R/P
    0.82337630143778
    Power
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Marivauder View Post
    why don't you just have local work on a distance type of thing, i.e. if a ship is in the space of 10au he appears in local chat or if he talks
    Lots of systems >10AU wide, so if that was the only change to how systems work in nullsec, the first clue something'd be amiss would be while the other guy was within a few seconds of landing on you. vOv
    Turning pretend colourblind angels from spaceship to madship samurais, one post at a time.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •