CCP, CSM, CCL and insider info

[StrPepel]

Disclaimer.

I decided to write this article after I stumbled upon a topic on http://forum.eve-ru.com/ which was made to discuss whether community need CSM or not. Very briefly the topic was derailed to discussion of CSM members’ personalities, their access to special information, private contacts with CCP employees and using all this for their personal concerns . Inbefore starting the post I want to apologize that all examples and information was taken from the life of ru-comminity. It happened only because I don’t have needed contacts anywhere else, but I think you’ve heard of the hero of this wall of text. Here is link for that topic, but it's in russian and moderated by topic starter.
http://forum.eve-ru.com/index.php?showtopic=88437&st=0

Part 1 – CSM, prelude. Reality and fiction.

When CSM was announced first time, Russian community paid little attention to it. Really, who can ever get interested in a volunteer’s opinion who is supposed to do something for the greater good, getting nothing in return. Almost nothing, because getting a couple of free trips to Iceland is crap, considering the short time you spend as CSM delegate and amount of efforts you do to join it.

Major figures of that time were busy with arranging the isk-flow to pay fee to their full-time FCs, propaganda managers, other random ppl you always need to maintain the life of a huge organization… and for some shadowy busyness. That’s because the first Russian delegate for CSM was Korvin. I’ve never known why he has applied. Maybe he is a fanatic idealist who dreamed of improving our game, or just lurking for some “inside” information, or maybe he just wanted that free trip (really don’t think so), but anyway, he was well known for his active participation in the life of our community.

And only when CSM 6 was announced, people with serious internet spaceship busyness understood the chances that CSM membership could give them. These things were really serious: access for special information, personal acquaintances with gamedevs from main Icelandic office… and opportunity to use these things for personal purposes, while also being able to push through ideas that could give advantage to their alliances. Shall I mention that UAxDEATH was one of the CSM 6 delegates and The Mittani, his IRL friend also was. Such a kind of New York Mafia, standing each other out. By the way, have you ever heard of Darius Johnson? He is also known to be a friend of this couple.

Part 2 – Becoming a delegate? That’s why you want to.

After having a look on various things that are spread everywhere on random and official forums you can easily notice that insider info was a good part of the action. It was discussed in UaxDeath’s CSM election topic on eve-ru, which also became the final push for me to snoop around a bit and get all available info into one whole thing. One of the interesting moments that came out to light was our hero’s private correspondence, in which we can see cases of breaking nondisclosure agreement.

I_gor (02 Jan 2012 – 18:58) wrote:
In his speech, UAxDeath told that CCP are going to make “destructible outposts idea” go live.

This were the words of random Red Overlord member, who listened stolen speech carefully and made some conclusions, that tell us about things that were going to be announced by CCP only in three weeks. The discussion that came after that post also uncovered the case when a botter in drone regions started accumulated alloys to sell them for real money when the mineral prices will “suddenly” go up seriously. Hey… but this talk took part three months ago… nothing about removing alloys was ever told that time…
After that goes a chatlog from the legion of xxdeathxx members, who had an opportunity to see all this crap with his own eyes.

Original

(07:22:43 PM) DarkPhoenix: ?? ? ??? ?? ??????, ???? ?? ?? ??????
(07:23:04 PM) DarkPhoenix: ? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ????
(07:23:10 PM) DarkPhoenix: ?.?. ?? ??? ??????, ? ??????
(07:23:19 PM) DarkPhoenix: ??, ??????, ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ????
(07:23:30 PM) DarkPhoenix: ? ?????? ?????, ??? ?? ??? ? ????
(07:23:33 PM) xxx: 100000%
(07:23:35 PM) DarkPhoenix: ? ??? ?? ? ???
(07:23:41 PM) DarkPhoenix: ??? ?????? ????? ? ?????
(07:23:46 PM) DarkPhoenix: ?? ????? ??????
(07:24:08 PM) xxx: ???
(07:24:21 PM) DarkPhoenix: ???? ?? ?? ???????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ??????????? ??? ????
(07:24:25 PM) DarkPhoenix: ??? ???? ?? ?????
(07:24:35 PM) DarkPhoenix: ?? ?????? ? ? ??? ??? ?? ????
(07:24:36 PM) xxx: ? ? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ?????????
(07:24:42 PM) DarkPhoenix: ????, ?? ??? ?? ??????? ????
(07:24:56 PM) xxx: ? ???? ???? ?? ?????, ?????? ??????????
(07:25:02 PM) DarkPhoenix: ????
(07:25:04 PM) DarkPhoenix: ???????
(07:25:05 PM) xxx: ??? ??? ???????
(07:25:08 PM) xxx: ???
(07:25:11 PM) xxx: ??????
(07:25:17 PM) xxx: ?????? ????? ??????
(07:25:19 PM) DarkPhoenix: ????
(07:25:24 PM) DarkPhoenix: ?????? ? "??????"
(07:25:31 PM) DarkPhoenix: ?????? ????? ????? ???? ?????????
(07:25:39 PM) xxx: ?????? ? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ? ?????)
(07:25:58 PM) xxx: ??? ???????? ??????? ??? ???????? ????? ????? ??????
(07:26:07 PM) xxx: ? ??? ????? ?????)
(07:26:19 PM) xxx: ????? ?????? ? ????? ?? ????????? ?????)))
(07:26:37 PM) DarkPhoenix: ? ?? ???? ???????? ??? ???????????? ?? ?????? ?????, ??? ???????? ??? ????, ???? ???? "?? ?????? ????? ? ???????? ?????"
(07:26:46 PM) DarkPhoenix: ????? ??????
(07:26:49 PM) DarkPhoenix: ??, ????????
(07:27:07 PM) xxx: ?? ???? ?? ???????
(07:27:16 PM) xxx: ?? ??? ??????? ?? ????)

Translated

(07:22:43 PM) DarkPhoenix: CSM don’t need him
(07:23:04 PM) DarkPhoenix: I know how he does things
(07:23:10 PM) DarkPhoenix: after listening to him in teamspeak and elsewhere
(07:23:19 PM) DarkPhoenix: but it’s only HIS problems he’s worried about
(07:23:30 PM) DarkPhoenix: after remembering how he works with his ally
(07:23:33 PM) xxx: 100000%
(07:23:35 PM) DarkPhoenix: and having him in CSM
(07:23:41 PM) DarkPhoenix: is just shit
(07:23:46 PM) DarkPhoenix: we don’t need it
(07:24:08 PM) xxx: ye
(07:24:21 PM) DarkPhoenix: if he’s ever spent any effort not for himself
(07:24:25 PM) DarkPhoenix: that would be cool
(07:24:35 PM) DarkPhoenix: but I don’t believe him anymore
(07:24:36 PM) xxx: I haven’t voted for him on previous election
(07:24:42 PM) DarkPhoenix: he destroyed hope himself
(07:24:56 PM) xxx: I always knew what he wanted, at least supposed it
(07:25:02 PM) DarkPhoenix: hehe
(07:25:04 PM) DarkPhoenix: insiders?
(07:25:05 PM) xxx: a whistle here a noise there
(07:25:08 PM) xxx: ye
(07:25:11 PM) xxx: insider info
(07:25:17 PM) xxx: very different info
(07:25:19 PM) DarkPhoenix: it’s clear
(07:25:24 PM) DarkPhoenix: that’s why he mentions drinking with employees
(07:25:31 PM) DarkPhoenix: drunk ppl can’t hold their tongues even if they want to
(07:25:39 PM) xxx: I’ve got access to alliance isk transactions
(07:25:58 PM) xxx: a friend of mine wrote a program counting rent from shadow
(07:26:07 PM) xxx: and you know…
(07:26:19 PM) xxx: there was no money on alliance valet when the assault on us was launched
(07:26:37 PM) DarkPhoenix: I read his election topic on eve-o, absolutely no serious info, just random stuff from random renters that tell that he’s cool and he’s bought them whiskey
(07:26:46 PM) DarkPhoenix: where’s all that isk gone?
(07:26:49 PM) DarkPhoenix: for RMT?
(07:27:07 PM) xxx: unfortunately I haven’t caught his hand on it
(07:27:16 PM) xxx: but my alliance made one more step to It’s death.

But the most indicative was the 1000 and 1 drake incident, as I call it.
Here’s this story.
“Agent Grom” who turned out to be a man known as Gravyz, has stolen from UAxDeath 1000 drakes (there were less of them actually, but there was lots of other random stuff and “The 1000 drakes incident” sounds cool) using shared director’s account. Some proofs.

http://imglink.ru/pi...df4338005c5.jpg
http://imglink.ru/pi...94fc54a0350.jpg
http://imglink.ru/pi...60b0c4f59fe.jpg
http://imglink.ru/pi...eafacb511ee.jpg

You can say: LOL he robbed him and what? But the most interesting part came after. CCP returned stolen assets to their owner… Just think about it… CCP SHOULDN’T return rightfully stolen assets and MUST ban accounts proved for being shared… What can we call a proof on acc-sharing after this?
Friends of UAxDEATH have even started a topic about it on eve-ru, calling it “punishment”

Here is a story from that unlucky robber

Mr Gravyz (23 march 2012 - 11:17) wrote:

So let’s start
At first a little opening word: ppl in eve know me as Gravyz. Some of them hate me, some became my friends and are helping me now. In the end of july I’ve started new corp – JE. Our first alliance was the Legion of xEATHXx. We started to take first positions on the CTA membercount and killboard activity.

But soon our paths diverged. The reason was a serious talk with legion’s officer Maugly about the RA.

Following the UAxDeath’s order, he wanted to destroy triple A while flying in RA fleets. His idea sounded like: we must take all their space before some patch goes live, after it –a- was going to die and drone regions would be safe…. I didn’t like that idea. I wanted to make our alliance grow both with quality and numbers, wanted to roam around, kill stuff, lead alliance CTA doing things like that and bringing ppl fun. That’s where the conflict started. After all Maugly told that he wanted to lure some RA corporations into legion, he thought that their leadership was shit, and RA was going to die after that.. that we just needed to push them up a little closer to the edge…
I’ve brought that information to Silent Dodger, which immediately caused epic emorage from legion’s leadership and denial of compensation for my corp. When Dodger asked for explanations, they told him that all that was MY and only my idea. Soon after that we left the legion.

About acc sharing in the legion:
As it always happens with account sharing, everyone know about it, no one hides it and no one have any proofs. Time to change it, cause I’ve got some.
During one operation in LXQ, some chars were shared for me:

STYPY RUS's leviathan:
???????? (15:58:27 19/09/2011)
stypy-caldar *** Zagushka (edit: I’ve deleted the password)


proof: http://s003.radikal....2302ac9cfdc.png
I’ll bring a better screenshot next time, this one looks like shit


Forelka's mothership:
ivanpetrov *** vince locke (edit: I’ve deleted the password)


Proof: http://s57.radikal.r...322fbd10276.png
Same with this, wait a bit.

I can say with full confidence that half of xix supers is shared among xix directors.
If CCP likes to ban for account sharing, they’ve got work to do, since they can check that easily.

You can’t see the correspondence on these screenshot cause their quality sucks, but you can see that I was given account data for some accounts. There was also an account with ragna, but it wasn’t used in LXQ that time.

1000 drakes and hacking bans:

After leaving XIX I’ve decided to help my xix friends to drop the burden of some assets in their homeworld. I’ve chosen Forelka’s mothership, that as I’ve mentioned before was shared for me. Cheked roles on him and assets in 1?8. After makin sure that assets are located in 1?8 and there are no directors online, I assaulted the corphangar in 1a8, using the shared character. All assets were passed to my original character.
That’s what was called the 1000 drakes incident.

But in 2-3 weeks after this incident, half of my accounts get banned for hacking.
being honest… very interesting accounts:

1 mothership account with my main Gravyz
And some account that were frozen with no characters for some time.

The game master who banned my account had a talk with me, I gave him screenshots and some other proofs and the answer was: sharing is prohibited, you get permo-ban, your petition is closed.
I’m still talking to game masters about it, but with no result. After publishing it, UAxDEATH will do everything to make my characters kicked from goonswarm, and even more bans are possible after that.
We’ll see.

Let me remind you that Gravyz took part in an operation in LXQ on the shared mothership. In this one http://eve-kill.net/...kll_id=10669596 The top damage one. From his IP. It could be a 100% proof that the was no hacking since who will ever hack an account to go to CTA on it, lol. It could be, but it wasn’t somewhy. Game master surely checked the IP addresses, since another account, that didn’t belong to Gravyz and also acted from that IP was banned too. But what about that aeon, vince locke? It’s still not banned. How has it happened? Miracle… or not? You know after that dirty story with Band of Brothers there was no way that could have happened, really? /Sarcasm off.

Part 3 – CSM of CCL?

Let’s return to the topic that made me write this. The topic starter there (Astarta Atrax) tells about the idea of destroying the institute of CSM (after being told and accepting things that were told about UAxDeath in that topic she stated that she voted for UAxDEATH with 7 accounts, while telling that there is no need in CSM, lol women logic). But what hides under this slogan “Let’s pass all the authority that CSM has to CCL” ?
After this 1000 drakes incident it’s completely clear that the owner of these magic drakes will become CCL in no time with help of their magic. It’s very useful to be anonymous and possess the same abilities than before. No angry ppl on forums, no elections, no answers to community… What else can this good man want for his personal favor?

Epilog - All the things around.

No need to think that I started all this mess because of my personal hatred to UAxDeath. Cause it is not truth. I don’t want anyone to have such an ability to cheat in the game I play.

But anyway, I understand that CSM is needed for only two entities:
1. CCP. As a puppet voice of people under their dictation. (No offence, they are businessmen afterall).
2. The CSM themselves. To access insider information for their personal needs.

I totally accept that CCP will not remove CSM, that is actually used as a fig-leaf covering a huge dick that they put on their players, to give it a smell of democracy.

Why does UAxDEATH is only one mentioned in this article? Because during his time in CSM, he is a perfect example of using the positive sides of being a delegate for his personal needs. Money does not smell.


P.S. original thread http://forum.eve-ru.com/index.php?showtopic=88561

[Fartman]

sounds good thx

[Kanloch]

I don't know if it's the long winded post or the fractured english, but I have no idea what I just read.

Is it just a bunch of ruskies being paranoid, or only wanting on the CSM to further their rmting empires? :

[Aiden]

This thread is going.... somewhere?

[Jovan Geldon]

Russian forum porn never ceases to surprise me

[progodlegend]

CSM members violate the NDA and take advantage of privileged information.

Also the pope is catholic, I thought this was like common knowledge at this point.

P.S: I only read like 5 sentences of that shit.

[Greatdum]

I can't believe I read everything

[Yang Wenli]

What a terrible post. Why did you feel this was worth transcribing?

[Nrvnqsr]

This pretty much reaffirms what I already know about Russians and their take on eve politics. I just wish I didn't keep reading thinking the post would improve

[LeonM]

I don't know if it's the long winded post or the fractured english, but I have no idea what I just read.

Is it just a bunch of ruskies being paranoid, or only wanting on the CSM to further their rmting empires? :

To make things short -
A certain bunch of ruskies doesn't want another bunch of ruskies on CSM so they won't be able to further their RMT empire.
Also, a certain bunch of ruskies would like to see shared accounts banned as prescribed by EULA, and not their stolen assets restored in spite of the violation.

BTW, if you browse the original topic, you'll see that tits have been used to derail the discussion, always a pleasure http://forum.eve-ru.com/index.php?sh...post&p=1696830
Along with posts from ISD officials, lot's of damage control from XIX etc.

[Grath]

Man, you know what, there was a post by a Dev on Eve O about 2 years ago that said that, Yes, account sharing is technically against the Eula, but they don't enforce it, and that they won't be dealing with problems from assets being stolen in that manner in any way beyond temp banning both accounts and returning the assets to the starting account.

Thats what should have happened in this case.


Also, the part about the CSM passing inside information is literally bullshit. I have come at Elise drunk, sober, just woke up, fuck if i could catch him mid orgasm to ask him a question about whats going on i would, but he absolutely refuses to give any of that information up in any way.


I WISH he leaked, but his ass is submarine levels of water tight.


Oh and thats not Titans being 'used to derail the discussion' you paranoid twit, read any other serious discussion thread about eve right now, every fucking one rolls around to being about Titans.

[Kanloch]

I think he meant actual breasts, the link in the post at the bottom of that page goes to some weird ass photoshoot.

[LeonM]

Man, you know what, there was a post by a Dev on Eve O about 2 years ago that said that, Yes, account sharing is technically against the Eula, but they don't enforce it, and that they won't be dealing with problems from assets being stolen in that manner in any way beyond temp banning both accounts and returning the assets to the starting account.

Thats what should have happened in this case.


Also, the part about the CSM passing inside information is literally bullshit. I have come at Elise drunk, sober, just woke up, fuck if i could catch him mid orgasm to ask him a question about whats going on i would, but he absolutely refuses to give any of that information up in any way.


I WISH he leaked, but his ass is submarine levels of water tight.


Oh and thats not Titans being 'used to derail the discussion' you paranoid twit, read any other serious discussion thread about eve right now, every fucking one rolls around to being about Titans.

By all means, dont try to understand what you read

[Grath]

Which part of my post do you have a problem with?

You said something about account sharing, its old news that they don't really give a shit about account sharing.

You insinuated that the CSM members use the information to their own advantage, I challenge that, mine doesn't.

You also insinuated that they're 'using titans to derail the discussion', thats not what they're 'doing', thats just what happens in EVEs current environment.


So which part of what you wrote did I misunderstand?

[Yue]

Which part of my post do you have a problem with?

You said something about account sharing, its old news that they don't really give a shit about account sharing.

You insinuated that the CSM members use the information to their own advantage, I challenge that, mine doesn't.

You also insinuated that they're 'using titans to derail the discussion', thats not what they're 'doing', thats just what happens in EVEs current environment.


So which part of what you wrote did I misunderstand?

I don't think the fact that Elise is a GGG means other CSM members wouldn't use insider info to their benefit. We have seen examples of it in the past.

[Rer]

Politicians are corrupt while some are there to actually just do there jobs. These folks are however always taken out of the spotlight in favor of the crazies to make for more entertaining news.

NEWS AT 11.

[Arrador]

You insinuated that the CSM members use the information to their own advantage, I challenge that, mine doesn't.

Both of you, Stop taking exceptions and thinking they are the norm.

[Fartman]

that tits have been used to derail the discussion

Titans being 'used to derail the discussion'

jesus h fucking christ grath.. when you're at the point where you see the word 'tits' and what comes to mind
is a titan instead of a human female's breasts.. its seriously time to take a permanent vacation from eve on-
line (a bad game)..

[Grath]

oh ive seen rus abbreviate titans to tits, so i just assumed thats what he meant.


WHOOPS

[Aiden]

oh ive seen rus abbreviate titans to tits, so i just assumed thats what he meant.


WHOOPS

I saw the same while lurking a recent kugu whinenaught about the titan nerf. Thought the abbreviation was dumb but who am I to disagree with the hive?

[Vile rat]

Both of you, Stop taking exceptions and thinking they are the norm.

What? It's been my experience that we take the nda super seriously. This kind of blanket shit always annoyed me.

[Della Monk]

You insinuated that the CSM members use the information to their own advantage, I challenge that, mine doesn't.

Cyrillic terrifies me on a subconscious level, but I think his entire point was that the russki csm was in it for himself in particular

[Krutoj]

You insinuated that the CSM members use the information to their own advantage, I challenge that, mine doesn't.

Whats worse, they making his gameplay worse by nerfing PL style of gameplay, damn you Elise and Seleeneeeee







j.k

[Pielemieni]

Man, you know what, there was a post by a Dev on Eve O about 2 years ago that said that, Yes, account sharing is technically against the Eula, but they don't enforce it, and that they won't be dealing with problems from assets being stolen in that manner in any way beyond temp banning both accounts and returning the assets to the starting account.

Thats what should have happened in this case.

I think the problem is that according to this dude, things went EXACTLY the opposite way, i.e. the ban against the shared account was permanent and others equally shared accounts were not banned. And the stuff was returned to the starting account, aye.

(...) fuck if i could catch him mid orgasm to ask him a question about whats going on (...)

I WISH he leaked, but his ass is submarine levels of water tight.

Too... much... information....




j/k

[Shadoo]

Russian never ceases to amaze me.

[Raketefrau]

Shall I mention that UAxDEATH was one of the CSM 6 delegates and The Mittani, his IRL friend also was. Such a kind of New York Mafia, standing each other out. By the way, have you ever heard of Darius Johnson? He is also known to be a friend of this couple.

I'm pretty sure that "couple" is just a mis-translation for "pair", but either way, this cracked me up.

Has anyone actually understood this enough to say whether the theft was via account sharing or not? If it was via account sharing, then whatevs. If it was a fair theft, it's fucked up.

[Pielemieni]

Has anyone actually understood this enough to say whether the theft was via account sharing or not? If it was via account sharing, then whatevs. If it was a fair theft, it's fucked up.

If I understood correctly, the former.

[Krutoj]

Russian never ceases to amaze me.

I know bro, the funny thing is how much more full of shit some Russian players are. You know, a few trolls on kugu should take notes

On a side note, Gravyz is a scumbag who knows jack all.

For example, for about a year I was the pilot for Zagushka, then this character was transferred and became a titan pilot.

[Space cadet]

You dont have to be in the CSM to get some info.
I went to the fanfest a few years ago and was drinking in the same bar as some Devs we plied one with copious amounts of alcohol I was trying to get out of him witch corp or alliance he flew with but his lips were sealed on that

Eventuly he did tell me that the Devs were concerned about how some entities could control so much of 00 space leaving nothing for others.

This is where I first heard the idea of Local channel being removed he said they had discussed it because it would make scouting and controlling great swathes of 00 sec alot harder.The decision was it would simply be too game changing to implement.

A few months after I came home from that trip CCP introduced thier answer the wormhole.

[Krutoj]

Space cadet, the issue here is the info that can be used as an advantage, rather than just some general information thats meaningless. But the author of this thread will need some proof of those advantages or maybe he should look around a bit more instead of being so butthurt, and see who really have gained advantage in the aftermath of the patching and how

[ihaveahelmet]

The topic starter there (Astarta Atrax)

isnt she super fucking hot?

[ihaveahelmet]

yes, yes she is

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-w...0/DSC_2926.jpg

[Marivauder]

yes, yes she is

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-w...0/DSC_2926.jpg

She looks like a Hazard