Compiled List of Gaming News Articles Concerning EVE MT

[Shangpo]

I am waiting to hear what mittens says.... what is interesting here is the Space Pope himself wields power over the community, not the so called "community managers".

CCP has (made the mistake of?) given power to the players, whether percieved or real and they have spoken.

CCP is in a world of shit... No one knows exactly how many people have unsubbed (I hear 1M in subs per year) and who knows how much of that is real vs. rage. What is clear is they have got the message that they have an unmitigated PR fiasco and have made it worse by CCP Zulu's Japanese fetish pants post.

What makes me very nervous is the fact the the Space Pope (Mittens) himself was the one who got everyone to calm down (a wee bit at least) enough to let everyone say "Ok, the CSM is heading to Mecca (Iceland) lets see if the Mountain moves". (Bit of a arab culture joke there....) http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/as...e-mohamme.html

The fact that a CSM wields so much power over a community should scare the living shit out of CCP.....

[Stuckenschneider]

This shitty game would never reach more than 50k subs, if CCP haven't given power to community. Game is shitty and boring, it's us who make all the epic stories to advertise eve in media.

[jimmychrist]

CCP doesn't deserve this community.

[tgr]

The fact that a CSM wields so much power over a community should scare the living shit out of CCP.....

Actually, I was thinking the CSM has had more of a calming effect than anything. It's not like the CSM can demand anything from CCP, but they can certainly suggest, in no uncertain terms, what it is we, the players, feel. And it'll probably be a more tempered and logical (...one can hope) message being conveyed than what the 400+ page thread does. Or the other threads which I can't be arsed to keep up with anymore.

[Malcanis]

I can't help an unpleasant suspicion that the real shitstorm will kick off this weekend when the CSM return. CCP have consistently utterly misjudged their customer base recently, and it would not surprise me at all if they thought they could get away with delaying a few days and then asking the CSM to rubberstamp a not-really-sorry apology and a feeble attempt at something that sounds like a promise not to do power MTs but is not actually any kind of commitment.

[Dots]

I can't help an unpleasant suspicion that the real shitstorm will kick off this weekend when the CSM return. CCP have consistently utterly misjudged their customer base recently, and it would not surprise me at all if they thought they could get away with delaying a few days and then asking the CSM to rubberstamp a not-really-sorry apology and a feeble attempt at something that sounds like a promise not to do power MTs but is not actually any kind of commitment.

Nah, I think they will go with their old trusted strategy of lying to CSM and the community about not implementing p2w items and then introducing them in a following expansion/patch "CCP style". It is more consistent with their mentality this way.

[MtA]

Actually, I was thinking the CSM has had more of a calming effect than anything. It's not like the CSM can demand anything from CCP, but they can certainly suggest, in no uncertain terms, what it is we, the players, feel. And it'll probably be a more tempered and logical (...one can hope) message being conveyed than what the 400+ page thread does. Or the other threads which I can't be arsed to keep up with anymore.

Well, CCP actually created a double-edged sword here when they introduced the CSM meeting as an answer to this situation.

The CSM certainly can't demand shit, but imagine the CSM returning from their trip and having a unified communicate saying that they didn't feel reassured, everyone's worst fears are true and they are also quitting the CSM and the game. The CSM's power in this matter is the threat of turning a PR disaster into a PR catastrophe of biblical proportions.

If they were talking gas-on-a-fire before, this would be like shovel-fulls of gun powder on top of it or something.

[Shangpo]

Well, CCP actually created a double-edged sword here when they introduced the CSM meeting as an answer to this situation.The CSM certainly can't demand shit, but imagine the CSM returning from their trip and having a unified communicate saying that they didn't feel reassured, everyone's worst fears are true and they are also quitting the CSM and the game. The CSM's power in this matter is the threat of turning a PR disaster into a PR catastrophe of biblical proportions. If they were talking gas-on-a-fire before, this would be like shovel-fulls of gun powder on top of it or something.

There is precedent now. CSM does have real power. They might not be able to demand things, but the message to CCP is clear, we the players have representatives and we expect you to hear them out. If you lie to them you lie to us, or in other words, we believe the CSM more than you. Which is quite interesting as CCP has my credit card number which I wouldnt give to any CSM member. (Well maybe mittens to buy a beer cause I am a fanboi but not Whitetree)

[Faife]

CCP doesn't deserve this community.

perhaps not for the reasons you think

[jimmychrist]

That was the joke

[StevieTopSiders]

I don't understand why CCP fears doing small balance changes.
And this "agile" development "philosophy" is shit without listening to customer.

I have always wondered the same thing myself! Instead of saying, "We're waiting until the winter expansion until we rebalance stuff," why couldn't they say, "Hey, I had some ideas for a Dramiel nerf. The new stats are up on the test server, go test it and give us your feedback. For everyone constructive piece of criticism, you get some unallocated SP's on the test server. Then look at the results, and if they need more changes, make those live and get more feedback.

One thing this would require is an incentive to get people onto SiSi. Maybe if the NeX weren't such a hotbutton issue and shit was actually affordable, you could offer people 100 aurum for partaking in test fleet fight or something.

[Shangpo]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/eu...656386285.html

I am pretty sure I see a Eve Banner there somewhere.

I tend to be pessimistic and feel like CCP will do its best to spin this. Instead of falling on the mercy of the Eve community and saying "we fucked up" they will spin. The nice thing is I believe the CSM (this CSM specifically) will see through the BS and tell us if CCP is truly repentant or if they are as evil as we think they may be.

[Deniera]

There seems to be a fair bit of naivety here about CCP spending money on new products such as WoD and Dust. What do you honestly expect them to do: Focus only on EVE until it inevitably winds down, taking the company along with it?

In practice, EVE is increasingly a legacy program and that means that it's resource intensive to develop. You have to spend time and effort wading through old code to either understand what it does or clean it up and update it before you can add new features. WoD and Dust wont have such a developmental overhead.

Finally, Dust itself is a commitment to the long term survival of EVE. Without EVE to give DUST a context and a USP, DUST becomes just another FPS passing in the night.

Yes because the shelf-life of console FPS games is so long.

[GreenDaemon]

Yes because the shelf-life of console FPS games is so long.

counterpoint: halo 2. If Bungie hadn't released 3 or reach or the like, it would still be played today.
Just because a FPS is targeted to a more casual group does not mean i cannot survive a good amount of time.

Granted, however, it is much much shorter than a MMO

(not that i think Dust will have such an impact as Halo, its just an example)

[Senor Libertad]

Counterpoint: Counterstrike... except its not on the console.

[Night]

I'm sort of curious why they felt the need to develop both these other games, however, when it puts them in a vulnerable position like this. It's not like the recession is new; it's not like there was any huge outcry for Dust, any identifiable market that will latch onto it like it's the greatest thing since Halo. The WoD game, sure, you can probably make a good argument that an urban fantasy MMO, especially one backed by as widely-played a bunch as White Wolf, will be good.

But why was CCP so set on pushing Dust out if it places them in a position where they're very vulnerable?

[Deniera]

counterpoint: halo 2. If Bungie hadn't released 3 or reach or the like, it would still be played today.
Just because a FPS is targeted to a more casual group does not mean i cannot survive a good amount of time.

Granted, however, it is much much shorter than a MMO

(not that i think Dust will have such an impact as Halo, its just an example)

It just seems like average fps console games only last until the "next big thing". I would guess this is because PC FPS games have stronger communities.

[StevieTopSiders]

I'm sort of curious why they felt the need to develop both these other games, however, when it puts them in a vulnerable position like this. It's not like the recession is new; it's not like there was any huge outcry for Dust, any identifiable market that will latch onto it like it's the greatest thing since Halo. The WoD game, sure, you can probably make a good argument that an urban fantasy MMO, especially one backed by as widely-played a bunch as White Wolf, will be good.

But why was CCP so set on pushing Dust out if it places them in a position where they're very vulnerable?

I think they want DUST to be indirect publicity for Eve. Sure, they want DUST to be successful and have console-players sink money into Microtransactions, but they also want those same console players to think, "What is this Eve game I'm working with. Maybe I'll give that a try..." Subscriptions have been flat for a while, and I think they want to expose the game to new players who don't have the stigma (Eve is a learning cliff) like PC gamers do. They'll need to make quite a few improvements before consolers will get Eve and stay with it, but it might be possible.

[Tristan Acoma]

They'll need to make quite a few improvements before consolers will get Eve and stay with it, but it might be possible.

You mean like buy them a gaming PC?

[StevieTopSiders]

You mean like buy them a gaming PC?

That wouldn't have been necessary, but then they released Incarna, so... vOv

[Agathor]

Mittens link on twitter about Iceland and the financial crash throw a very interesting light on this entire mess. http://t.co/NvVMRm7

Agile seems to fit CCP like a glove. Promise, under-deliver, promise to iterate, move on, repeat.

The best way to see any city is to walk it, but everywhere I walk Icelandic men plow into me without so much as a by-your-leave. Just for fun I march up and down the main shopping drag, playing chicken, to see if any Icelandic male would rather divert his stride than bang shoulders. Nope. On party nights—Thursday, Friday, and Saturday—when half the country appears to take it as a professional obligation to drink themselves into oblivion and wander the streets until what should be sunrise, the problem is especially acute. The bars stay open until five a.m., and the frantic energy with which the people hit them seems more like work than work.

Heh.

When I go down town I dont divert for no one, unless for pretty chicks or a group 2 meter 90 kilo douche bags just looking for a fight.

Unless I am with my RL friend and ceo of my corp, over 2 meters and 120 kilos of pure bitterness.
A bear of a man that is known to use humans as pompoms when he gets angry.

[Malcanis]

There is precedent now. CSM does have real power. They might not be able to demand things, but the message to CCP is clear, we the players have representatives and we expect you to hear them out. If you lie to them you lie to us, or in other words, we believe the CSM more than you. Which is quite interesting as CCP has my credit card number which I wouldnt give to any CSM member. (Well maybe mittens to buy a beer cause I am a fanboi but not Whitetree)

The CSM doesn't have much real power, but it definitely does have influence.

It's a shame so many idiots can't see any middle ground between "omnipotent" and "impotent".

[Agathor]

0.o

Did I post in the wrong thread?

Nope just got my pages mixed up.

[Night]

I think they want DUST to be indirect publicity for Eve. Sure, they want DUST to be successful and have console-players sink money into Microtransactions, but they also want those same console players to think, "What is this Eve game I'm working with. Maybe I'll give that a try..." Subscriptions have been flat for a while, and I think they want to expose the game to new players who don't have the stigma (Eve is a learning cliff) like PC gamers do. They'll need to make quite a few improvements before consolers will get Eve and stay with it, but it might be possible.

Problem is it's all ass-backward that way. They've taken people off EVE to get Dust working; but EVE in its current state won't bring in Dusties. They want Dust to succeed; but they've chose a market where games sink without a trace often, and which is starting to turn pretty nasty if they'd bothered to look around.

But CCP decided, for no apparent reason, to commit to bringing Dust out. It's the game nobody really wanted, the game poised to fail and fail hard where EVE is chugging along happily. And while WoD will probably be overrun with people who read Anita Blake books and unironically enjoy them, it'll definitely make money. Dust is just a gamble, with a very high chance of "costly boondoggle". So who backed this shit?

[Agathor]

Dust is just a gamble, with a very high chance of "costly boondoggle". So who backed this shit?

Well, Sony has taken over the financing of Dust for the most part as I gather it.

[fulis]

I think Dust would have a much better chance of succeeding if they launched it on PC instead of PS3. I think the PC audience is more aware of EVE and lost of people are interested in the game but don't want to play EVE itself.

[GreenDaemon]

At this rate of degradation, no one may be playing eve anyways. oh well

[Pripyat]

But all other MMOs are so much more terrible

[Faife]

But all other MMOs are so much more terrible

I'm considering restarting my DCSS addiction instead

[tgr]

You could join the MMO called Real Life. Be careful, it has a mean boss called The Daystar, though, and it's not free to play.

[Tristan Acoma]

You could join the MMO called Real Life

I might consider it if they would just implement medical clones

[Unifix]

Anyone have a mirror of that accounting information?

Edit: nvm found it

[true]

I think Dust would have a much better chance of succeeding if they launched it on PC instead of PS3. I think the PC audience is more aware of EVE and lost of people are interested in the game but don't want to play EVE itself.

CCP specifically stated before that for dust they want to attract completely different playerbase.

The CSM doesn't have much real power

CSM's power is not in telling CCP what to do, it's power in influence on players.

[Malcanis]

You could join the MMO called Real Life. Be careful, it has a mean boss called The Daystar, though, and it's not free to play.

Sure it is. Free download, no subs, but the MTs are a bitch,

[zodt]

Sure it is. Free download, no subs, but the MTs are a bitch,

No, there is sub.

But no way to extend it

[Zakhodit]

CCP specifically stated before that for dust they want to attract completely different playerbase.

One that is less likely to turn on them when they pull a stupid stunt.

You could join the MMO called Real Life. Be careful, it has a mean boss called The Daystar, though, and it's not free to play.

I am horrible at this game. Plus, it's not nearly as sand box as is could be. Way too many rules. Oh, and my avatar is ugly and balding and the cost to recustomize is stupid expensive. I hear there is a Developer, His name is Jesus.. must be Mexican or something, but he never responds to messages. Some other guy got all upset, said his name was "Allah" or something like that. Who knows the guy was foaming at the mouth angry, and hard to understand. Anyway, I figured even if there was a Developer the game was freeware and any evolution in the code wouldn't come from him at all.

[jimmychrist]

Vaginas are OP.

Back when I started playing Chariots was the bomb but now everyone has Automobiles. Mudflation much?

Noobs are griefers.

When are you gonna remodel Penis?

Buff science!

Why does the devs never blog anymore? Are they busy with a new project?

Goddamn goons.

[tgr]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jimmychrist again.

[MtA]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jimmychrist again.

Gotcha covered.

[jimmychrist]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jimmychrist again.

I have the same problem re: you in the northern thread. Fucking Mulla telling us it's not ok to manlove it up in here.

[MtA]

I have the same problem re: you in the northern thread. Fucking Mulla telling us it's not ok to manlove it up in here.

I gotcha covered there too. Now don't push it, I'm new to rep-love triangles.

[tgr]

Now don't push it, I'm new

That's what she said.

[Malcanis]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jimmychrist again.

I'm on it

[Zagdul]

Looking out for your bottom line doesn't make you EA. I want CCP to be financially sound. At least to the extent that it also makes Eve a viable venture.

I have no particular desire to bail them out though, unless they also give me something other than more status quo in return.

This is what happens when you wrestle with capitalist pigs, by the way. The pigs walk away with all the revenue and you and your customers get fucked.

It's the way EA looks out for it's bottom line.

CCP feels (I have no proof, it just doesn't feel the same as when I started) that it's starting to head in that direction.


Personally, I think if CCP publically said "duders, we're trying to be smart with what we have by not putting all our eggs in one basket. We're going to start other projects in order to expand our IP. However, we think we might have bit off more than we can chew thus putting us in a rather shitty financial situation. If we can't raise some RL ISKies fast, we'll end up losing not only the future projects, but EVE online also.

So, we're going to add a squeeky domi to our store for 5 bucks and we're also adding a special "Save CCP" white Quafe shirt to our NeX store that is only $5. When you go to your account management page, you can directly purchase the item there which will give you the required AUR in game to make the buy for the Quafe shirt."


If they did this... I'm sure the fans would help.

Instead, their responses have been arrogant and some of the decisions underhanded.

At least, it feels that way.

[jimmychrist]

It's the way EA looks out for it's bottom line.

CCP feels (I have no proof, it just doesn't feel the same as when I started) that it's starting to head in that direction.


Personally, I think if CCP publically said "duders, we're trying to be smart with what we have by not putting all our eggs in one basket. We're going to start other projects in order to expand our IP. However, we think we might have bit off more than we can chew thus putting us in a rather shitty financial situation. So, we're going to add a squeeky domi to our store for 5 bucks and we're also adding a special "Save CCP" white Quafe shirt to our NeX store that is only $5. When you go to your account management page, you can directly purchase the item there which will give you the required AUR in game to make the buy for the Quafe shirt."


If they did this... I'm sure the fans would help.

Instead, their responses have been arrogant and some of the decisions underhanded.

At least, it feels that way.

Yeah, I agree. I'm not sure their VC investors would want them to publicly admit to being in dire straits, though. But yeah. It would probably have netted them more cash, not to mention goodwill. At least in the short term. They could only go back to that well so many times.

(My GF flies Gallente and she would probably do the dishes for a month if I surprised her with a squeaky domi.)

[Zagdul]

Yeah, I agree. I'm not sure their VC investors would want them to publicly admit to being in dire straits, though. But yeah. It would probably have netted them more cash, not to mention goodwill. At least in the short term. They could only go back to that well so many times.

(My GF flies Gallente and she would probably do the dishes for a month if I surprised her with a squeaky domi.)

That's kinda what I'm getting at with the "feeling" is that when I started playing EVE, the devs would have reached out to the community.

This bond needs to be rekindled. If CCP can start just being honest with us, the players will fund their projects. I would personally love to see WoD/Dust succeed because it'll build a company who can support it's games better.

I personally think that if CCP had the income and backing, they'd have better devs and superior game quality than it has now. They just need more income than what EVE provides them. Anyone with half a brain can see this. EVE is an expensive game to run and develop. So far, it seems their investments have been wise. They've stuck to their guns about buying their IP back and becoming the sole owners of it. They've developed one of the most powerful computer clusters in the world that gives NASA a hardon. They're unique and it's the attraction to the company and the game. However, if they lose their heart. If they take their fans for granted... as we've seen this past week, they'll lash out and they'll quickly break that bond.

meh... done ranting

[busyturtle]

CSM is an entity that only has strenght in the actual community not in CCP. CCP does what it wants all the time and does not care about CSM. Most of us would agree on that.
"The CSM just gets in the way of what CCP want to do as suppose to what the community wants".
After all there is countless of examples why this is so. I am 100% sure CCP will feed bs to the CSM. The last leaked mail is pritty clear. They are just gonna play delay/bs/wrap the lie into something - games.
Thats what corporations do when they are strugling/take over or in our case want to implement something thats not popular. I see it all the time in rl corporations.

I am sure they bs the CSM, then they will deploy their changes in small batches. First they implment something that we wont notice or wont care much, then something else and eventually we will have ammo/ships/guns for real money all in small steps. But all will be so suttle that by the time we notice, its too late. I am sure that special OP ships for money is coming, maybe 1/2 years down the line but i am sure now. Its really disapointing

I feel that all these sources of income that CCP is trying to get is for supporting Dust. In effct we are paying for Dust that is to say. Whats there to stop it for Eve community paying for Dust in the future e.g an extra charge to cover for Dust even after is been put live? The future is not bright i think...

[Deniera]

So is there any good reason for them to not lie to us and the CSM?

Goodwill and all is fine, but CCP used to exceptional in the area of creating tools for players, and by exceptional I don't mean they were good at it, I mean they were the exception.

[Stuckenschneider]

So is there any good reason for them to not lie to us and the CSM?

A good reason is what when the lie is uncovered, the shitstorm will be much worse.
I think what ccp has well laid plans for selling not only vanity items and they will not abandon it. Hey it worked with BFH, why it should not work here?

[Tristan Acoma]

I personally think that if CCP had the income and backing, they'd have better devs and superior game quality than it has now. They just need more income than what EVE provides them.

So the question is why are subscription costs static in an environment where the cost per account averaged over time is almost certain to go up by virtue of inflation alone? I honestly expected to be paying (or having the people buying plex for me to buy off the market to be paying) somewhere closer to $20 by this point.