Where to take a small Noob PVP corp?

[NAP]

I've been PVPing for quite some time and have gather up a lot of solo & very small gang experience. I have a few friends that I created a corp with and we have been recruiting a lot of new players and going through the beat head against wall phase of trying to teach them small gang PVP in FW.

I'm growing tired of FW as it's even more beating heads against walls trying to get the various personalities & corps to work together. There are only so many walls one can beat their head against before one's brains turn to mush, so I've been looking for more attractive ventures that might better suite our corp.

We have a corp of about 40+/- a few with roughly 15 active guys that aren't a alts or someone that hasn't logged on in more than a month, but it's hard to get 10 guys in a gang at one time. We are normally 5 to 8 at best at this point but it has it's ups where we can sometime field 10 Nanno Drakes or a few Arti Hurricanes. Seem to have a revolving door of activity & inactivity that always keeps us at the same levels of gang sizes.

When I can run corp gangs we actually do decent, but often spend more time avoiding Militia or Pie blobs than fighting but we tend to get a few kills here or there with minimal losses. However when I can't be around to FC, our guys lose ships to the blobs & gank gangs to the point it's hard to even keep a positive kill/death ratio.

I'm not hung up on KB's, but I know we aren't going to attract more experienced guys, when our KB looks like shit with loads of dumb losses. We get some pretty decent kills in our own right but the losses tend to more than make up for that, which leads to guys getting EMO and going inactive. But hey at least we have the ISK war won..

I can't hold hands all the time, and some of the guys are trying to step it up, but even for myself I know it's hard at time to avoid dying to bait & blobs, so I can't fault new guys for getting ganked even though I know some are avoidable.

I'm really trying to keep the corp small gang orientated (ideally 8 to 15), but for the above mentioned reasons It's really hard for our guys that don't always have alt scouts or the needed experience, to survive in in such blob ridden space of the FW low sec areas. I've looked at Syndicate as it's close by and we do random, roams out there, but it seems much the same there anymore. There are a few larger groups that essentially just gank & bait and with our numbers we would really have a hard time.

I don't have access to a jump freighter for resupplies so living a bit deeper in NPC null sec is sort of a problem. I won't become someone's pet and never a renter but is there any NPC space that has a half decent market that isn't camped by faggots day and night that a smaller PVP corp could survive and maybe grow or is best option just to stay in low sec but move to quieter space and just roam Sov space?

[Chadstick]

Edit, didn't read post close enough

[Doddy]

Stain is always good, but it is deep.

[Securitas]

If you are mainly US TZ you're more than welcome to come hang with Concordiat, TASHA, and other people as we roam into Nullsec. It's only a casual thing but you'll get a few new FCs if you're not online that take gangs out of the mutual channel. You can hit me up ingame if you like.

[Le'Blob]

Base in Harroule, Ostingele, Vestouve for lowsecs bordering Syndicate, or Stacmon (Highsec, next to Ostingele/Harroule). It allows for easy, usually uncamped entrance into Syndicate, that is relatively close to the Gallente hubs. That is where I based anyways when I was pure solo in between corps.

For Curse/Provi you can look at Sendaya, or Gamis (highsec).

Saranen or Aunenen for pure blind.

There are some other places, but honestly if you are a nooby entity, Syndicate or POSSIBLY Great Wilds would probably be best. (Syndicate is much more active though)

edit: If you had a jf or carriers, then Fountain is really an amazing place to live with TEST, Godfathers and EXE there.

[Fatyn]

Move into a C3 or C2 wormhole with a static nullsec connection. Roam out of nullsec for regular PVP. Get some fun fights or ganks in W-space. Wormholes are really great for forming really tight small corps imo, especially if you can keep your PVP focus sharp and avoid turning into carebears. Living in one kind of forces teamwork, cooperation, initiative into your membership.

[NAP]

Securitas , maybe I will hit you up sometime, I've seen you guys roam through our area on your way to PB or CR and I think you do a lot of Ruptures gangs if I'm not mistaken.. We do a lot of Thrashers/Drakes but working on getting everyone in to Ruptures as well so we have decent T1 cruiser gang.

Le'Blob actually one of the target systems I had thought about living was Ostingele as we often fly in that area but draw back that has kept me from there is groups like Ninja Unicorns seem to or at least used to be very active in that area. Black Rise & Placid both seem to be getting kinda retarded lately and it's not uncommon to get Titian bridged on. We had a BC gang bridged on us 2 nights ago with just 2 Faction cruisers tag teaming so either EVE is just getting really retarded or the area is.

As for Fountain, I agree the NPC pocket isn't a bad place last time I ratted up my flashy sec status I did it there. Looked like a decent place to come back to from time to time but I've always been a sub cap pilot, being I've solo'd most of my game time so never had the need for caps. Now that I've built up a corp it kinda bites me in the ass, being I now have no real way to help resupply the corp outside of say 1 or 2 gate jumps into low/null.

Fatyn I've actually done the WH thing b4 when I was getting bored with the blobs in the past. Had a C2 with a static low/C2 that I was trying to use as sort of a pirates den to get random pockets of low sec to roam each day, but as luck had it my low sec static always seemed to spit me out in the ass end of Minmatar space or deep pockets of Amarr space that was barren as could be. I've toyed with trying the WH thing again but I really think it would just turn the corp into more carebearist because of all the down time between finding active targets.

[tuku]

I might recommend Molden Heath... Specifically Heild. It is within 7 jumps of Rens 2 jumps of Tenosude (a minor hub still in highsec but only just) The region is filthy with other pirates, is close to ammamake and the surrounding low security space there. As well as R1FTA witch you kind of have to experience to understand. Other people of note you might run into are Gunpoint Diplomacy and Tuskers.

[Mfume]

I'm partial to NPC Geminate (FDZ).

The advantages:
1) In the north, so it's not like completely fucking gawdawful.
2) There are 3 or 4 close (under 8j) lowsec access points, so your newer/casual members are never hellcamped completely out of it.
3) Easy access to both sov and lowsec space with groups ranging from competent to "HOLYSHIT HOW BAD CAN YOU BE AT THIS GAME", depending on your numbers/skills.
4) Sister of EVE missions are reasonably profitable and don't fuck up your empire faction standings.

[cuko]

Syndicate, Great wild lands, Providence or faction warfare low security space.

[NAP]

I might recommend Molden Heath... Specifically Heild. It is within 7 jumps of Rens 2 jumps of Tenosude (a minor hub still in highsec but only just) The region is filthy with other pirates, is close to ammamake and the surrounding low security space there. As well as R1FTA witch you kind of have to experience to understand. Other people of note you might run into are Gunpoint Diplomacy and Tuskers.

Yea I started this game living around the Ammamake area as I learned to PVP in in the systems just off it it in Bos, Gulm ect.. Problem with Ammamake any more is it's too over run with FW and the pirates that were there bobbled just as bad as the FW guys. Last time I was down there you couldn't even get a Rifter fight with out 5 guys others showing up.


Anyone have any info about Curse these days?

[spamB0t]

Don't take your noobs to syndicate, it's a mix of falcon gangs and people that are actually good at the game. +1 to Geminate and Molden Heath.
IMO Outer Ring is pretty good, you're close to Syndi,Fountain and CR.

[NAP]

Don't take your noobs to syndicate, it's a mix of falcon gangs and people that are actually good at the game. +1 to Geminate and Molden Heath.
IMO Outer Ring is pretty good, you're close to Syndi,Fountain and CR.

We live close to Syndicate now and go out there for roams already as well as Cloud Ring, so I already understand how ghey Syndicate has become lately. Used to be some fun fights out there but lately seems very bait & blob crap or 50 moron chasing around a 5 to 8 man BC gang expecting you to give them a fight.

Outer Ring & Geminate would be a bit rough for us to resupply atm with out use of a jump freighter. Molden Heath seems so so but with 1 of the two null sec entrances being Great Wildlands, it leaves me a bit skeptical of that area. being GW has shit for stations. This kinda makes me think it can't be very active out there.

I was actually looking toward maybe living in low sec Derelik area & maybe trying to roam Providence, Curse & play patty cake with some of the local pies. Kinda curious if anyone has any info on the area?

As far as our corp, I call it a noob corp, because it's still going through it's growing pains but I've been pretty hardcore on setting up specific corp ships/fits that all our guys should be flying. I've put together a basic fleet doctrine that I pretty much made guys train toward if they want to fly in our gangs. Meaning even though we do have a lot of newer players, mixed with a few decent skill point guys, we can field OK "small" gangs when I can keep guys active.

I'd say we are at the tipping point of being able to run pretty decent gangs but no where near advanced status. It's just we are pretty badly out numbered in FW, so I'm looking for a little bit quieter space that also give us decent areas to roam with targets we can fight but also targets that will challenge us to get better.

Perhaps I should just get a jump freighter as I have a Char that is somewhat close to flying one and that would give us better options.

[Dsan]

I want to say, come to catch. but honestly that would be a trap..
In seriousness, try out providence. they need some sparing partners it seems.

[Matos]

Perhaps I should just get a jump freighter as I have a Char that is somewhat close to flying one and that would give us better options.

Or just use black frog in the meanwhile.

[Andre from FW]

Just stay in FW Mutnin. You guys are going to become quite good as you are used to fighting outnumbered all the time. If you need a morale booster, go on a roadtrip somewhere and find some more even fights. Honestly, you have all the targets you need between the Gallente and pirates in Placid/Black Rise. If you cannot deal with Caldari infighting, go join Amarr FW as they seem to have their shit together. You are going to find that the grass is not greener on the other side.

Lowsec/FW and NPC 0.0 are pretty much the only place where you can remain an independent entity. WH's to some extent as well, but the large WH corps/alliances are also getting to the point where they throw people out of WH space just because they can. I forsee WH space being no different than 0.0 soon, either become a pet or get curbstomped. Anyway, the grass isn't greener on the other side and NPC 0.0 won't be better than lowsec/FW.

[NAP]

Just stay in FW Mutnin. You guys are going to become quite good as you are used to fighting outnumbered all the time. If you need a morale booster, go on a roadtrip somewhere and find some more even fights. Honestly, you have all the targets you need between the Gallente and pirates in Placid/Black Rise. If you cannot deal with Caldari infighting, go join Amarr FW as they seem to have their shit together. You are going to find that the grass is not greener on the other side.

Lowsec/FW and NPC 0.0 are pretty much the only place where you can remain an independent entity. WH's to some extent as well, but the large WH corps/alliances are also getting to the point where they throw people out of WH space just because they can. I forsee WH space being no different than 0.0 soon, either become a pet or get curbstomped. Anyway, the grass isn't greener on the other side and NPC 0.0 won't be better than lowsec/FW.

Heh well I guess you spotted me, but not like it would be hard to figure out anyway for any of the FW guys, although not sure which side of the fight you are on.

TBH I wasn't planning to pull us out of FW, but more looking for a vacation away from FW to give something else a try as a corp. As far as being out numbered all the time & having more targets than we need it's not always as good as it sounds. For most part I think we are the only corp running gangs in US time zone on Caldari side and soon as we get spotted by the Gals, it's like every one of them in all of Black Rise & Placid undock to shoot us.

That might sound like it's fun, but when you pretty much have to go through the same routine of not being able to find decent fights because you are spending 90% of the time running or avoiding gangs that are 2 to 3 time larger than you, it gets old very fast. It's not even like we can engage any equal size Gal gangs that we might come across because soon as we do the inevitable "back up" will arrive with 20 guys coming from 2 or 3 jumps away soon as we get tied down into a fight.

This pretty much leaves us to hit & run ganking of smaller or easy kills which is OK, but it's no better than what happens to us and honestly doesn't help our guys get any better at fleet/skirmish fighting. It really doesn't take much skill to have someone tackle a target and have 5 to 8 guys gank it, I want to move past that point, but at this time there doesn't seem to be a middle ground of going from ganking lone targets to running from blob.

As far as Caldari, it's not so much infighting it's just there seems to be a total lack of cohesion among the corps. There have been plenty of guys that have beaten their heads against the wall on that front, so I pretty much just worry about what our corp does til I see some results. Besides that most of the active Caldari corps are UK time zone anyway, and most Gal corps seem to be over active in US time zone meaning anything the UK guys get going likely wont help our situation in US tz.

[Brooks Puuntai]

Somewhat off topic, but how is FW now a days? Last time I was in it, it was pretty much dead. It seemed to be only used for LP jewing.

[Grim]

Somewhat off topic, but how is FW now a days? Last time I was in it, it was pretty much dead. It seemed to be only used for LP jewing.

Recently in lowsec I've run into what I assumed were FW fleets of ~20 dudes. I am sure its not widespread, but somone is still doing it for the pvp.

[StevieTopSiders]

Recently in lowsec I've run into what I assumed were FW fleets of ~20 dudes. I am sure its not widespread, but somone is still doing it for the pvp.

I've heard of lots of FW stuff going on lately. I think Drunk 'n Disorderly, Shadow Cartel, Snuff Box, and Rooks and Kings all do a decent amount of fighting in Gallente low-sec. Also, according to Susan Black's blog (Yeah, yeah, I know. :blogs: ), there are lots of late USTZ fights between Amarr and Minmatar.

[WeaselBob]

FW always has something happening, though the small scale of the militias makes it difficult to hear about it if no one is shit talking about it. I can only really talk about Eurotime Minmatar, but we've recently seen a resurgance of people actually willing to undock and fight us with 20-30 man fleets who aren't Wolfsbrigade. Meanwhile we're still trying to cover EM's ass in Bosboger with mixed sucess by which I mean yesterday wasn't even the first time we've gotten dumpstered by PL out there.

On the shitty occupancy side, us and USTZ Amarr have been flipping Arzad out from under each other for weeks and our poopsocking plex dude is proving German superiority by taking a whole shitheap of systems that no one cares about.

[NAP]

Figured I'd bump with a bit of an update..

For now we have stayed in FW and figured we would see how the changes affect it. I also pretty much had to accept the fact that with out a jump freighter, the places we could move were very limited and now my alt is about 11 days from flying a Reha. (looking for a place I can stick him to steal one, if anyone has any tips )

Thanks to the new expansion and decent position on the KB's, we have been getting a fair amount of guys joining the corp and have started to flush out our ranks with a few higher skill point players here and there. This means our gangs are starting to look a bit more like I'd like to have them, but still needing some work here & there.

FW is still a hit or miss sore spot with me, it's kinda one of those things I love to hate. It gives us lots of easy access to PVP and nice source for ISK for our guys, but I hate the damn noob blobs with no concept of fleet doctrine, other than throw m0ar numbers than the other guy and would prefer smaller gang engagements. Still it's a good place to get guys some experience and easily find gangs when we don't have a corp gang running.

What I'm curious about now as the corp starts to progress, is what can we do as a corp to create a income source that allows us to progress a bit more? Obviously we aren't going to hold anything of real value like tech moons & so on, but are any other moons worth holding as a smaller corp, that isn't worth while for larger groups? Are customs offices very profitable?

Keep in mind as a smaller group a billion here or there, goes a long damn way, so I'm interested in hearing any ideas that might be worth while. The corp is focused on PVP so we aren't running incursions or WH's ect.ect..

[Quesa]

I'd take your corp into empire and wait for a small griefer corp to dec someone else and then hop on the free-dec bandwagon!

[Grim]

Well, if your getting a little tired of FW you might want to look into the alliance I'm in now. Aurora Shadow is an alliance of a few nullsec and wh vets with a large supply of newer players or career mission runners trying to break out into nullsec. We recently moved to Serpentis Prime, and have been having amazing daily fights with the locals. We have are very active in both EU and US TZ (30-50 in fleet), but are always looking for skilled players and FCs.

Here is our killboard, but its a little hard to decipher with all the rifter losses (its all about the isk war at the moment): http://www.aurorashadow.net/?a=home

We arent rich, but NPC pirate missions make decent isk, and we are getting sov soon so that should open up some more opportunities.

Also, as a Rhea owner I can say its a great ship to have, until you have to spend a lot of time hauling everyone elses shit around.

[DurpDurp]

Fighting in Npc fountain is never about the isk war. Although it is a good place to get fights. We (TEST) are always down to fight. Some people think we only blob but that is not true, we run plenty of small gang small ship fleets that are perfect to run up against and hone your teeth on. If you win good for you always nice to get good fights, and if you lose well you didn't lose much and you know what they say, practice makes perfect.


Edit: damn you ipad

[Kanloch]

Fighting in Npc fountain is never about the isk war. Although it is a good place to get fights. We (TEST) are always down to fight. Some people think we only blob but that is not true, we run plenty of small gang small ship fleets that are perfect to run up against and hone your teeth on. If you win good for you always nice to get good fights, and if you lose well you didn't lose much and you know what they say, practice makes perfect.


Edit: damn you ipad

Fountain is a terrible place to train newbies.

If you're blue to TEST & Co, you're surrounded by allies and your chances of getting fights are slim as the only people who roam down there are Pizza and godfathers remnants; outside of solo pilots and tiny (10 or less) man gangs you're not going to get anyone dumb/desperate enough to engage you without favourable odds.

If you're not blue to TEST & Co you'll only be able to catch people on their own and only occasionally; you will likely be reported in intel channels and if a pots n pans fleet doesn't form up to hunt you then you can bet they will when the guy(s) you've tackled start screaming on jabber and alliance channels about it.

And no, TEST doesn't have plenty of small gang small ship fleets; not in Fountain anyway.

[DurpDurp]

Do you happen to be in fountain? We do small gangs all the time, that's how our new fcs get training. Ritter/thrasher fleets are not uncommon.

[Grim]

Fountain is a terrible place to train newbies.

If you're blue to TEST & Co, you're surrounded by allies and your chances of getting fights are slim as the only people who roam down there are Pizza and godfathers remnants; outside of solo pilots and tiny (10 or less) man gangs you're not going to get anyone dumb/desperate enough to engage you without favourable odds.

Based on recent experience I would disagree. There may be better places to train newbies, but I have been amazed by the constant skirmishing (and the lessons learned) by dropping an inexperienced alliance into a cramped NPC constellation.

So far we have "learned" simple things like aligning, probing, following broadcasts for primaries, broadcasting for reps, why dictors shouldnt bubble the fleet when we are trying to warp off, how to not die to bombers, and much much more.

A lot of people bitched about us makining them fly rifters in the beginning, but now when we want to get into heavier ships like drakes and canes they wont quit the frigs.

Also, I think the ship class we have killed the most is cynabals (hi anzoxe) because the local godfags and co think they know how to fly them.

[Kanloch]

Do you happen to be in fountain? We do small gangs all the time, that's how our new fcs get training. Ritter/thrasher fleets are not uncommon.

I'm in your space on a regular basis fyi.

They're not common, at least not in EU TZ. The last rifter fleet I saw was the fight on the 7bx sun, other than that it's pots & pans defence fleets or ella meer and his five alts.
And from experience when I've been roaming in our own rifter/thrasher fleets the usual gimmick is to drop a bunch of BCs (usually drakes) on us.


If you're finding decent fights that's good Grim, but I think Fountain is getting a bit too crowded and (at least on our side) unless you bring a larger fleet you tend to get overrun or ignored.

[Grim]

If you're finding decent fights that's good Grim, but I think Fountain is getting a bit too crowded and (at least on our side) unless you bring a larger fleet you tend to get overrun or ignored.

I agree with you to an extent. Having flown in a few of the Pizza fleets there are not a lot of engagable small gang targets from TEST and friends. But we are proving the exception so far because so many of the NPC locals see us as targets that we dont have to roam at all. We just sit in our station, and UMAD, Godfathers, Squinqel, and a few others come to camp us or just snipe frigs on the undock.

Ex. This one Staffo 0 dude has lost at least 5 hurricanes and tornados (all sebo no tank) trying to pop rifters while his carrier alt reps him.

I suppose its similiar to Pizza dropping a staging tower in 6VDT to get fights.


Also, I apologize for being dishonourable to Pizza yesterday. You guys brought 4 thrashers to our undock for fights, and we undocked 40 frigs into you. I will try to not do it again.

[Kanloch]

Also, I apologize for being dishonourable to Pizza yesterday. You guys brought 4 thrashers to our undock for fights, and we undocked 40 frigs into you. I will try to not do it again.

And yes our Fountain operations have turned into the odd 6vdt camp, which stops when they start sitting carriers on the undock and we can't outalpha the reps.
Or the pots n pans fleet appears.


Staffo has been here for I don't know how long now, I remember he was around while SHURK was still in TEST so he's been there retardedly smacktalking and badly flying in npc fountain for a year or two now.

[NAP]

So about the small corp ISK making thing I was asking..any suggestions?

[StevieTopSiders]

Buy lots of T1 BPO's and set an industry whiz on them. Mine some moons like Vanadium that make ~100 million a month. Use Freighters and Jump Freighters to stock a low/null-sec entrance system. Buy up shuttles and relist them for crazy money.

[NAP]

Buy lots of T1 BPO's and set an industry whiz on them. Mine some moons like Vanadium that make ~100 million a month. Use Freighters and Jump Freighters to stock a low/null-sec entrance system. Buy up shuttles and relist them for crazy money.

na 100 mil isn't worth while.. I just can't find much info on what the various moons makes these days. I did a rough estimate on a Platinum moon based on generic info I could dig up and with out any reaction it's only like 150mil or so a month selling the goo direct. Obviously you would want to do the reactions or what ever it is you do but even that kinda income isn't worth while unless my figures are off.

I honestly have no idea on that stuff, but just seems there should be some sort of middle ground between the 15bil or what ever it is a tech moon makes a month & the sub 1 or 2 hundred a month of others. Isn't there some sort of shitty moon that makes 500 to 1 bil a month, that a small corp like mine could go take?

I'd just like to toss free destroyers & T1 cruiser hulls to our guys so they can use them to learn in. Sure I know they can buy them, but I tend to have much better luck having guys in the right ships if we have them pre-fit and ready to go. Helps me better keep guys in proper ships rather than assuming they are fit right and read our EVE mails.

[Mfume]

na 100 mil isn't worth while.. I just can't find much info on what the various moons makes these days. I did a rough estimate on a Platinum moon based on generic info I could dig up and with out any reaction it's only like 150mil or so a month selling the goo direct. Obviously you would want to do the reactions or what ever it is you do but even that kinda income isn't worth while unless my figures are off.

I honestly have no idea on that stuff, but just seems there should be some sort of middle ground between the 15bil or what ever it is a tech moon makes a month & the sub 1 or 2 hundred a month of others. Isn't there some sort of shitty moon that makes 500 to 1 bil a month, that a small corp like mine could go take?

I'd just like to toss free destroyers & T1 cruiser hulls to our guys so they can use them to learn in. Sure I know they can buy them, but I tend to have much better luck having guys in the right ships if we have them pre-fit and ready to go. Helps me better keep guys in proper ships rather than assuming they are fit right and read our EVE mails.

Neo and Dyspro are mid-range, but most of the dudes owning them will helicopter dick the fuck out of a small corp's tower with like 20 dreads, so you're gonna wanna have a batphone available.

[Manfred Hideous]

My Vad Haf reaction became unprofitable this week. The market seems to have tanked by about a third of what I was getting. I might have managed to break even but it's not worth the extra effort. I'll still mine the haf moon but only because it almost pays for the POS fuel that I also use for a lab.