The War for the Franklin Terrace Towers (Venal and the North)

[Zagdul]

No No No you see Tech promotes conflict and therefore should never be nerfed, actually it should be subsidized

Hi smart guy.

Tech isn't what is broken. Nerfing tech doesn't fix what the problems in EVE are. Not to mention the way CCP is going about it with Alchemy removes yet another part of the sandbox you as a player had control over, market fuckery. So instead of people who own a resource being able to dick with the market, CCP has introduced a mechanic to put a soft cap on it's price.

This is taking away from what EVE is. It nerfs EVE, not tech. Tech, after this latest change, will continue to remain the most valuable resource in the game for a few reasons. The main being the manufacturing process which tech is used in. It's entirely unbalanced and full of hard bottlenecks. Other reasons will be when the prices of ships and modules drop and tech being the bottleneck in the manufacturing process, will make sure that any alliance who holds it will have far less effort to gain the income and support their members.

While I believe there should be a supreme valuable item in EVE, I also believe that the players should have a way to determine what that valuable resource is. Not a mechanic CCP introduces to help prevent market fuckery.

[Mira Z]

There are two major conflicts going on in EVE right now, with either 3.5 different sides (NC.+co, -A-+co., and with the ambiguity of the HBC/CFC split I'll chalk that whole thing up to a side and a half) - and a 4th sitting it out on the sidelines for the time being (hint: it includes the alliance in your name).

I prefer to think of it as one really big conflict. I have to congratulate -A- for making their best contribution yet to a war in the north.

[Solar Fleet Best Fleet]

Hi smart guy.

Tech isn't what is broken. Nerfing tech doesn't fix what the problems in EVE are. Not to mention the way CCP is going about it with Alchemy removes yet another part of the sandbox you as a player had control over, market fuckery. So instead of people who own a resource being able to dick with the market, CCP has introduced a mechanic to put a soft cap on it's price.

This is taking away from what EVE is. It nerfs EVE, not tech. Tech, after this latest change, will continue to remain the most valuable resource in the game for a few reasons. The main being the manufacturing process which tech is used in. It's entirely unbalanced and full of hard bottlenecks. Other reasons will be when the prices of ships and modules drop and tech being the bottleneck in the manufacturing process, will make sure that any alliance who holds it will have far less effort to gain the income and support their members.

While I believe there should be a supreme valuable item in EVE, I also believe that the players should have a way to determine what that valuable resource is. Not a mechanic CCP introduces to help prevent market fuckery.

Yes, having far and away the most valuable resource in the game largely confined to the North where it can be protected by massive coalitions utilizing shitty sov mechanics is obviously a good idea. I wouldn't care if tech was still worth as much as it was before, just make it more spread out.

Putting most of it in one spot just promotes huge gaggles of faggots blue'ing each other and protecting it by slamming thousands of people into the system. The most valuable resource in the game should not be static.

[tgr]

shitty sov mechanics

I found the problem.

[Solar Fleet Best Fleet]

I found the problem.

It's a big part of it yes, but I think spreading out the valuable resource would be beneficial as well.

At least as a quick remedy until sov gets fixed (if ever).

[Iseeyouseemeseeyou]

It's a big part of it yes, but I think spreading out the valuable resource would be beneficial as well.

At least as a quick remedy until sov gets fixed (if ever).

Tell me why. If anything, I see everybody having x amount of tech in their area as causing stagnation.

[tgr]

It's a big part of it yes, but I think spreading out the valuable resource would be beneficial as well.

At least as a quick remedy until sov gets fixed (if ever).

So the entire universe has to rescan all moons all over again?

Foo diggity I can't wait.

[icanhazcheesetoast]

GF

[Solar Fleet Best Fleet]

Ah fuck it, I don't know how to fix tech.

Making it non-static is too much -effort-. Spreading it evenly creates stagnation. Having it centralized is fucking dumb for obvious reasons.

I'm going to log in and shoot stuff, I don't play games to think this hard

[Phey Onat]

You don't fix tech, you fix T2 manufacturing.

[Atticus]

Zagdul, if you like tech so much, why dont you take some from goons lmao

[Phey Onat]

Zagdul, if you like tech so much, why dont you take some from goons lmao

Goons defend their tech, I'd rather have some from NCdot

[Omeega]

Goons defend their tech, I'd rather have some from NCdot

Take my rep and shutup!

[Vince Draken]

CFC defend their tech, I'd rather have some from NCdot

[Zagdul]

Yes, having far and away the most valuable resource in the game largely confined to the North where it can be protected by massive coalitions utilizing shitty sov mechanics is obviously a good idea. I wouldn't care if tech was still worth as much as it was before, just make it more spread out.

Putting most of it in one spot just promotes huge gaggles of faggots blue'ing each other and protecting it by slamming thousands of people into the system. The most valuable resource in the game should not be static.

Way to go being dumb and not reading the post. Hi Five duder.

[Malcanis]

I'll try and make this real simple and use short words:

It's OK to have a best resource.

When that best resource is 50 jillion times better than everything else, then it's not OK

The longer, ruder words version:

Stop crying like a fucking space-republican that your insanely unbalanced, incredibly badly distributed, money fountain is going to become a merely highly lucrative money fountain, you tremendously entitled unconvincing cockholster.

Also to whoever said anything about sov: Tech has precisely fucking zip to do with "sov", you ignorant idiot. Eg: Pandemic Legion.

[Prodnovick]

I'll try and make this real simple and use short words:

It's OK to have a best resource.

When that best resource is 50 jillion times better than everything else, then it's not OK

The longer, ruder words version:

Stop crying like a fucking space-republican that your insanely unbalanced, incredibly badly distributed, money fountain is going to become a merely highly lucrative money fountain, you tremendously entitled unconvincing cockholster.
Also to whoever said anything about sov: Tech has precisely fucking zip to do with "sov", you ignorant idiot. Eg: Pandemic Legion.

Nobody is whining that tech got nerfed, it's just that they didn't actually change anything but introduce a soft cap on the price. They need to fix t2 manufacturing and make multiple moons valuable depending on demand.

[Solar Fleet Best Fleet]

Bwahahaha, I was worried about tech moon income and then I logged in and found out how much money we make from renters.

Nerf renters, goddamn.

[Lorren Canada]

Here we go

[Praesus Lecti]

Yes, having far and away the most valuable resource in the game largely confined to the North where it can be protected by massive coalitions utilizing shitty sov mechanics is obviously a good idea. I wouldn't care if tech was still worth as much as it was before, just make it more spread out.

Putting most of it in one spot just promotes huge gaggles of faggots blue'ing each other and protecting it by slamming thousands of people into the system. The most valuable resource in the game should not be static.

You do realize that CCP could have just as easily done the same thing with any of the R32 instead of Technetium, right? Had it been Mercury or Hafnium then the south would have been the beneficiaries of CCP's incompetence. I wonder though...had that actually happened, would you be here whining with the same argument. Magic 8 ball says "no".

[Quesa]

As long as you are able to passively make isk in the amounts as we've seen in the past and even Tech-present, you'll continue to have added pressure for alliances to cuddle up next to each other. There won't be anything CCP can do to drive a massive wedge between people's innate need to group together for safety but, in my eyes, they shouldn't be adding any incentive.

[Solar Fleet Best Fleet]

You do realize that CCP could have just as easily done the same thing with any of the R32 instead of Technetium, right? Had it been Mercury or Hafnium then the south would have been the beneficiaries of CCP's incompetence. I wonder though...had that actually happened, would you be here whining with the same argument. Magic 8 ball says "no".

Yes, because it would still be broken and bad for the game. Although maybe not AS broken because at least the South has shitty sov.

While Quesa's statement is true, if you honestly think such a condition afflicts the South and East as much as it does the North, you are woefully ignorant.

[Ron Mexxico]

hey shelios maybe you can ask zagdul for tips on how to FC drakes

[tgr]

You do realize that CCP could have just as easily done the same thing with any of the R32 instead of Technetium, right? Had it been Mercury or Hafnium then the south would have been the beneficiaries of CCP's incompetence. I wonder though...had that actually happened, would you be here whining with the same argument. Magic 8 ball says "no".

I doubt they'd still be "in the south" if they had.

[Muhadin]

Hi smart guy.

Tech isn't what is broken. Nerfing tech doesn't fix what the problems in EVE are. Not to mention the way CCP is going about it with Alchemy removes yet another part of the sandbox you as a player had control over, market fuckery. So instead of people who own a resource being able to dick with the market, CCP has introduced a mechanic to put a soft cap on it's price.

This is taking away from what EVE is. It nerfs EVE, not tech. Tech, after this latest change, will continue to remain the most valuable resource in the game for a few reasons. The main being the manufacturing process which tech is used in. It's entirely unbalanced and full of hard bottlenecks. Other reasons will be when the prices of ships and modules drop and tech being the bottleneck in the manufacturing process, will make sure that any alliance who holds it will have far less effort to gain the income and support their members.

While I believe there should be a supreme valuable item in EVE, I also believe that the players should have a way to determine what that valuable resource is. Not a mechanic CCP introduces to help prevent market fuckery.

Its the same thing as invention, so that was a mistake to, or would you rather go back to 30mil/per Cap Recharger IIs?

[Iseeyouseemeseeyou]

Its the same thing as invention, so that was a mistake to, or would you rather go back to 30mil/per Cap Recharger IIs?

I've got ~400 CR2's, so yes 30m/per sounds excellent.

[jimmychrist]

You do realize that CCP could have just as easily done the same thing with any of the R32 instead of Technetium, right? Had it been Mercury or Hafnium then the south would have been the beneficiaries of CCP's incompetence. I wonder though...had that actually happened, would you be here whining with the same argument. Magic 8 ball says "no".

They would probably think tech was fine. You'd be here saying that it was unfine though. So it kind of balances itself out.

[Zagdul]

You do realize that CCP could have just as easily done the same thing with any of the R32 instead of Technetium, right? Had it been Mercury or Hafnium then the south would have been the beneficiaries of CCP's incompetence. I wonder though...had that actually happened, would you be here whining with the same argument. Magic 8 ball says "no".

Dude, then the CFC would just invade and take it. A lot of people make claims that a resource in their space should be just as valuable as tech. This is a dumb statement.

Another dumb statement is that resources should rotate off moons and magically appear on other moons. This is another dumb concept.

The only two reasonable ideas I've heard are:

1. Distribute resources based on N/S/E/W of where an R64 and R32 are exclusive to each section of space.
North Caldari/Missiles Requires Neo/Tech,
East Minmatar/Projectiles Prom/Merc

etc etc etc...

The further you travel into null sec, the more R64's you have. This would mean that WE have a choice over what is more valuable depending on what we blow up. Off the bat, this would be a direct buff to all R64's as you'd do a 2/1 ratio of R64 > R32.

This makes all moon mining have some value across all space.

Conflict: Dude... how many of you wanna control Mini/Projectile area which is right next to Amarr/Lasers. People who control the north literally control the missile market.

2. Miners accidentally upon moon minerals during their herpaderping in belts. This makes sense as asteroids are essentially broken apart moons anyway. However, asteroids don't travel across solar systems and shouldn't see resources from other systems in them. I.E.: the deeper you go, the more likely you'll see higher end shit in your belt. Empire would NEVER see R32/R64..

[Zagdul]

Its the same thing as invention, so that was a mistake to, or would you rather go back to 30mil/per Cap Recharger IIs?

It is not the same as invention.

[Muhadin]

It is not the same as invention.

So, invention wasn't a softcap for t2 modules/ships?

[Iseeyouseemeseeyou]

2. Miners accidentally upon moon minerals during their herpaderping in belts. This makes sense as asteroids are essentially broken apart moons anyway. However, asteroids don't travel across solar systems and shouldn't see resources from other systems in them. I.E.: the deeper you go, the more likely you'll see higher end shit in your belt. Empire would NEVER see R32/R64..

I actually quite like this. Though it would have to be extremely well balanced to not just be a massive "FUCK OFF" to ratters. Knowing CCP, .

[Phey Onat]

Every Drake for himself!

[progodlegend]

damn, nice to be back in 0.0 again. Good fight CFC, i'll write up a little br later.

[thinduke]

Hey dudes please jump into the system, this fleet is really boring, TIA

LOL we had 65 in fleet you had 220 in fleet and you were asking us to jump in? Im sorry your FC didnt have the balls to attack us when you didnt quite have 4 times our numbers. I know a mate of mine in your fleet felt great frustration at this..We ended up having fun anyway ninjering a few kills using the cfc jump bridges to move around.

A lot of talk about tech etc so and very little about the fights and fun being had by quite a few of us. OTEC is over for us in NC. which is a great elief for us all, having a lot of fun getting the crap blobbed out of us in most fights but holding our own in others. Looking forward to teh next few weeks....this will not be over for a long while yet.

[Phey Onat]

Looking forward to teh next few weeks....this will not be over for a long while yet.

Please don't collapse like Raiden.

[Pilious]

http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?brid=11129

Awaiting the spin on this. But thanks for killing me so early so I missed out of the whole route and was simply updating my clone and think wow sounds like I am missing being on the right side of a massacer.

Updated battle doc inserted IRC kinda welped some of there snippers but still 150 man advatage and capitals on the field so yeh pretty poor showing by the elite CFC USTZ

[Phey Onat]

The FCON tower is still standing

[Pilious]

The FCON tower is still standing

At current Tech prices you will need close to 3 months of uninterrupted production if not more to equal what you lost, and it's reinforced again so meh not producing anything right now is it? But that is what I figured the official spin on welping your fleet to even numbers would be.

[Gossip Whore]

lol, good job Goons. Elite PvP.

[Pilious]

http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?brid=11129

Updated battle doc welp IRC

[DrunkRussian]

At current Tech prices you will need close to 3 months of uninterrupted production if not more to equal what you lost, and it's reinforced again so meh not producing anything right now is it? But that is what I figured the official spin on welping your fleet to even numbers would be.

They got more out of that moon than you ever will.

[Gothic Light]

You do not warp alphamaels onto ahacs at 0.
It is known.

[Razzor]

CFC welping hard to defend a strategic objective. This is shocking news and I just don't know what to think anymore.

[Checkbox Poll]

You do not warp alphamaels onto ahacs at 0.
It is known.

But I don't see ShadowandLight in fleet???

[Phey Onat]

Ping goes out...

Enemy dreads: Jump out! Jump out!

[Elo]

look what happens when I forget to jump out

[Addrake]

Great late night dinner
http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?brid=11142

[Phey Onat]

There was dinner? I missed the wine and dining and ended up straight in the middle of the fucking

[SeriousTroll]

http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?brid=11129

Updated battle doc welp IRC

hmm wasnt in that fight, did we just get a terrible warp in or does CFC hate us some much that had to go on our ass

[Mira Z]

Dude, then the CFC would just invade and take it.

The question is "Would they be able to?"

The CFC's success in the game today is built on strong bureaucratic organisation which is able to redistribute the passive income from its moons in the form of comprehensive reimbursement for lost ships. Because of this pilots are encouraged to fly in fleets and do not suffer when the inevitable welps occur (and everyone welps sooner or later). The reimbursement also enhances recruitment and retention - new players join for the free ships, existing players don't walk out because they are "broke".

If tech had never been the bottleneck, would the CFC ever have had enough isk to start this virtuous cycle? We'll never know, but it's pretty foolish to assume that the relative potency of the powerblocks in EVE would have been similiar enough to make rolling over -A- as easy a proposition as it is today. A better comparison would be asking if a Providence era FA could have invaded Catch.

History tells us you ran away like girls...