I didn't mention needing more supers or income, that must have been your imagination. I'm certain if being ratting whores was higher up in -a-'s priority list they would have moved at some point. Most people I know live in Catch because small/medium gang warfare is prime, not because our moons are the shit or we can rat more.Originally Posted by Grath
“Isn't it funny how the mood can be ruined so quickly by just one busted condom”
Actually, you said exactly that:
Or did the keyboard fairy come along and leave a little message while you were napping?
Which do you think will effect Morale more in our big fight scenario?
1200 men engage 50 titans, fit for blap, which is the only time maelstroms are really in danger from Titans. Figuring 600 of those fleet members are Maels, and the rest are in support, you're firing 600k alpha per shot, into no tanked titans (not that shit fit GK thing that the other guy linked, man titans, that run a DCU as their tank).
So in that fight, you're going to lose some maels, probably a lot of maels, say 500 maels.
But 2-3 titans are going down as well, complete with pods most likely due to the bubbles/smart bombs.
So who suffers the most morale hits in that combat arena? The 3 dead titans or the 500 dead maels? I can tell you from actual real working functioning trials on this that the titans stop logging in first. The maels go back and get new ships, the titan pilots start bitching about blobs and naps and all kinds of other bitch like shit that never fucking ends until their pulled out, and if a 2nd engagement was to go that way, oh dear sweet lord the fucking tears from them is absolutely abysmal.
EDIT: Case in point, VFK, we didn't even lose a fucking titan, all you did was put them in near constant danger, and it was enough to break the normal amount we had logging in.
What in the bloody blue blazes are you talking about? Pointing to a slapfight between two pets as evidence of how a powerbloc can "break apart" is nonsense of the highest order.One has only to look at the slap fight between FCON and FA to realize how easy it is politically for that 1400 man fleet to break apart.
Giant bluefests don't break apart easily. See: Coalition, Northern which would STILL be up there lining Vuk Lau's pockets without a way for determined entities to get around the numbers game. And that solution is and always will be, supercaps. As long as cowards band together in multiple region blocks of blue blue blue, then supercaps need to be in the game to counter-balance coward bluing faggotry.
Neither of those statements says -a- needs those things-in fact we're doing quite well with what we have. You're merely assuming shit because from you're point of view-more supers and titans is the natural way of things and its inconceivable for you to operate without contract jew gold or supers.
“Isn't it funny how the mood can be ruined so quickly by just one busted condom”
Are you retarded?
I man this honestly now, are you fucking stupid, have you been diagnosed with retardation, or some other mental illness?
What the fuck does that say, and did you or did you not just type it on page 8 (post 396) of this thread?
ahahahaha, then he neg reps me for pointing out the obvious fact that he did indeed say it.
you're going to be mad as fuck when gsf has 120 dudes in supers every night
Mfume Apocal - Origin. - Black Legion.
You mean the coalition which was essentially broken apart by another coalition blueing up in equal (or greater, I don't remember offhand) number?
(Before you go herpaderpaing with number of people in the alliances IN that coalition: I mean number of people actually on the ground.)
Advocating the Nyx as a roaming ship and passing judgement on how much space an alliance owns while themselves circumventing traditional sov ownership as a barometer for "winning" because that would in turn create the potential for "losing," to me, that says the entity is pretty clearly from a certain alliance.
I know right? When I undock to lead a roaming gang my only option is -A-. Nice alliance ticker bro.I were to lead a PL gang out on a roam, either nothing would happen, or I'd have to sit on your doorstep for 2 hours while you got a fleet together.
And can you guess why people didn't show up "on the ground", eh?You mean the coalition which was essentially broken apart by another coalition blueing up in equal (or greater, I don't remember offhand) number?
(Before you go herpaderpaing with number of people in the alliances IN that coalition: I mean number of people actually on the ground.)
Because they were lacking any sort of decent force projection comparatively. Their morale was broken by the attackers, which doesn't happen without super capitals being in the game. Numbers shouldn't be the sole determining factor in force projection, as it will continue to simply cause massive bluelists spanning region upon region. Until they are able to destroy giant gay bluefests, they can't remove supercaps.
Mentally sending stabby knives your direction now.
This might be a more persuasive argument if the large majority of supercaps didn't belong to alliances which have absolutely no problem with coward bluing faggotry.
EDIT: And no Teak, it's not a "different issue entirely". It's exactly the issue. Massed titan/supercarrier fleets are not a tool for breaking up coalitions; they're solely a tool used by coalitions. The old "we need titans to fight the blob" line sounds good but, like "we need AoE doomsday to stop laggy fleet fights", it is, sadly, just not true.
Go to sleep.
e for content: if CCP ruin cloaking I'm going to fucking kill myself (ingame).
Yes, they can. The main problem isn't the supers, they mainly become the force they are currently because of the SOV system, because you know you have to attack and defend ONE system, which means the strategy is, and always will be, "how much force can I shoehorn into that system to ensure I win?". If the SOV system had been much more granular, or required multiple objectives, then the comparative power of the titans would decrease a fair bit, and they'd become less of a "deploy supers, receive bacon". You can of course concentrate your supers in one system, but the other guy can just concentrate on other systems if that's the case.
Nobody on the CSM thinks fucking with cloaking is a good idea. Nobody has ever died to a cloaked ship and the only thing hurt is your peace of mind while solo ratting.
I literally sleep every other day.
You should see just how much eve-o posters are literally fapping their penises raw over two statements in the minutes, the "cloaked ship hunter" and "look at local".
Cloaked ship hunters wouldn't be bad if they killed local, or killed cloaked ships in local, it would then be a fair trade off, once the hunter tips his hand he becomes the hunted
Perhaps, but I'd put that pretty fucking low on the tree of shit that needs to be fixed in eve online: still a bad game.
It's hilarious to troll the eve-o guys though. One guy actually tried to call afk cloaking an officially frowned upon exploit.
Ask him about suicide ganking and hulkageddon. Oh and can flipping.
Part animal, part machine
Oh wow
And I'm too hungover to troll the ever living shit out of him
I'm not, somebody link that shit
Thanks for stepping up, Grath ?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default...s&t=57685&p=17
Ghost of Truth on a posting rant for pages..and pages
Cloaking as a feature is nice and cute.Lets me give you crash course
According to wikipedia:
'An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or design flaw by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.[1] It is often colloquially abbreviated sploit. Exploits have been classified as a form of cheating'
Cloaking=Feature since 2003
AFKIng =using that feature to get unintended bonuses=exploit baby!!
See...
https://forums.eveonline.com/default...85&find=unread
and
https://forums.eveonline.com/default...32&find=unread
... in addition to the parent forum for the thrice weekly afk cloaking threads.
Highlights from eve-o:
I agree that people shouldn't be pussies about a cloaked ship, or perhaps use some organisation to protect themselves. But the fact of the matter is there are a lot of players who will log on to their favourite ratting system with a set up like I used to have (Tengus and a Carrier etc all in the same system ready to rat), but who will not undock and will simply logoff again rather than take the risk that an entire hostile fleet is forming up for the "AFK" cloaker to bridge in on top of your carrier, or taking the effort involved in moving all those assets to a new system. This means that one player has been put off playing, and the other player (the AFK cloaker) is also not playing. Two people, if not more ratters who have logged in and decided not to play, have now been stopped from playing the game. Players that could perhaps have been providing targets for roaming gangs (something CCP wants to see more of) to try and engage. Surely even something like a "no actions performed in the last 60 minutes = automatic logoff" rule would be more beneficial than no change at all? Though I have to say I'm not opposed to the idea of a ship that can scan down cloaked ships, though it shouldn't be as quick or as easy as normal probing.Shitty idea that everyone will laugh at me for: cloaks using fuel so people can't sit there 24/7 without some kind of penalty or consequence. Obviously I am not the first person to suggest this, but I haven't seen anyone mention it here.My biggest problem with the AFK cloaking is that it's retarded to have a game mechanic where the person AFK has no risk as the active player has no means to do anything about them once they are in system.I never said they were a risk, I said the cloaker has no risk afking. My complaint has nothing to do with the actual cloaked ships in general (they are fine mostly), it's the fact that as a game mechanic it's retarded that being afk cloaked is the safest you can be outside of being docked.The deciding factor should be if AFK cloaking makes the game more fun. Personally, I don't see how it makes EvE more fun.
Comments on this Post
Make a more clear point and I'll pull this back, you're not refuting anything I say, you're attaching the negative to my alliance instead
a. lol @ implying I give a fuck if you hold my rep hostage Grath. I'm a relative nobody, but thanks.
b. all due respect, I am refuting what you're saying; it's quoted very specifically. Considering the negative rep and lack of any rebuttal, I think I hit home, but probably deserve it anyways for the digression.
c. To your main points I add:
The lowest common denominator is the individual player's subjective gaming experience. Doesn't matter if you're in PL in a titan, or a Maroon 5 album owning faggot in a taranis having an "I was there moment" -- people want to feel like what they're doing in this often boring as fuck game matters.
People shouldn't enjoy setting a range and methodically cycling on one target after the next with no other considerations (am I talking about a Titan pilot or a Maelstrom pilot?). Combat should be dynamic, tactful, and where possible incorporate actual pilot experience and skill. An equation where X number of BS equals Y number of titans with the expectation of each battleship simply being a sink for a handful of XL charges (and the cycle time required to kill the next battleship) couldn't be father from that ideal.
Thousands of alpha battleships (or whatever the next largest pwnmobile is) against another thousand alpha battleships in a very linear fight is also not ideal, so to your and other's credit, more nonlinear and dynamic methods of engaging EVE's most massive fleets are being talked about (+ rep to you sir). Without actual balancing happening this is the only way forward, because as it stands, class balancing is so imperfect that if you took titans away, or gave them to everyone, in general fights would be conducted in pretty much the same way.
How you reconcile supporting the blap supercap status quo with the micro PL is supposed to be renowned for is beyond me.
"I paid good money for this botting program and I don't see why some AFK cloaker should be able to mess with my ISK stream"
Grath you complain vehemently about the number of hit points on "inanimate structures". You do realise that those will be far more likely to be cut substantially once the problem of supercapitals is dealt with, since it won't be making it an even more trivial task for 30 dudes to spend 15 minutes condemning some smaller, poorer and younger alliance to 8 hours of repping.
Yet again, unbalanced supercaps constrain CCP and stop them making the game less horrible for both attacker and defender in the majority of fights. Fortunately, they do seem to be beginning to grasp this.
My blog: http://endie.net Twitter: EndiePosts
If I forget thee, O Goonfleet dot com, let my right hand forget her typing.
drakes are popular in pvp and pve because T1/named fits are easier to get into than a fat ugly drunk nymphos knickers, trading kinetic dmg bonus for RoF will actually make them more useful in pve versus all different NPCs
i want to see more pve, the AI used for sleepers and incursions is pretty good, why not have randomly spawned travelling caravans of blockade runners escorted by scary damage dealers travelling across many systems, more ccp events too
i want to see more ships, whoever said add more Tier1/2 variants of subcaps, good idea
if structure hp and specifically station services are decreased and drone minerals changed to bounties in turn increasing mining I can see beartears on the horizon, another case of doing too many things at the same time without thinking them through as a whole which leads to negative feelings when ccp repeatedly nerf the new features
also I want walking in stations as opposed to walking in closets, is there really no talk about establishments? no timeline even if 18 months from now?
Get tae fuck.
My blog: http://endie.net Twitter: EndiePosts
If I forget thee, O Goonfleet dot com, let my right hand forget her typing.
Oh. You're that guy.
It would be a shame what so many resources spent on Incarna would result only in CQ. It would be great if CCP at least made "instances" like corp hq or alliance hq without the rest of the station or establishments. I just want to show off my cool cloths from nex store I've spent $100 on.
Part animal, part machine
Yet again the cancer of self-interest comes to the fore as you fail to mention the obvious example of Muninns. Sic him, Grath...
My blog: http://endie.net Twitter: EndiePosts
If I forget thee, O Goonfleet dot com, let my right hand forget her typing.
You do realize that by cutting their HP it would no longer take 8 fucking hours to rep them, its a circular problem with HP, they have a fuck ton, so it takes forever to shoot them, and forever to rep them.
If you drastically reduce them, they're quick to be shot down, but also quick to fix, so that the act of shooting them and repping them becomes more of an annoyance that promotes smaller defensive actions instead of massive fuck off blobs. Some days you can care, some days you don't have to care, because fuck it, it'll only take 5 or 10 minutes to fix, you can do it later, or one of the other people in your alliance might grab something and put it back right again.
Last, I never said he was against fun, but I am saying he's against any idea that doesn't support his group. Maybe he spoke up and told the CCP guy that he was fucking retarded, but thats not in the minutes, and when confronted about it all he has to say in return was "you have CSM delegates too". The CSM isn't there to help one group or another, they're supposed to be stopping CCP from making stupid choices about their game, and when the guy said "Drakes are used too much, they do everything too well, we need to nerf them", one of the CSM should have asked him if he's retarded or does he not understand uniform fleet doctrines, and that the cane, mael, abbadon, rokh, zealot, munnin, ect all also fall into his retard category because that particular CCP guy can't grasp whats right in front of his face. I did also call him out of touch, because something tells me that the average Joe Goon would also like to see structure HP slashed across the board.
Would you be willing to put up a poll, on GF.com, with no related thread to avoid altering anybodies natural opinion through discussion, and see how many people in GSF like the current structure HP amounts?
I guess the one thing that I have to lean back on in this whole deal is that CCP likes money, and they're not ever going to do anything that drastically cuts accounts (well not again anyway), so they'll likely largely ignore him and Supers will stay super, so that the owners keep the accounts running.
EDIT: Also, while you're bitching about 30 dudes making some poorer younger alliance miserable by getting them shit on, your at the same time advocating station services on NPC 0.0 stations, that can be disabled, but not repped, and this same area is where most newborn 0.0 alliances live. Just a tad hypocritical.
just gonna say .....
You mean like the way they'd never dare fuck with anomalies or drakes?
You're "the 1%", remember? If CCP are happy to fuck with the 99% of subscribers, why wouldn't they risk your precious subs? Especially since it's been a long while since you actually gave them any actual money, and there are plenty of other people who'd buy those PLEX instead.
I did edit in 'again', and I do pay with money, but the point is, I seriously doubt they'd make either platform unfun to play, as they'll try to avoid bleeding anymore accounts. I'm happy that GSF has 700 newbies per recruitment drive, but somehow I doubt the retention rate is near that high. Eve isn't going to die tomorrow, but have you noticed how long its been since we've seen actual subscription numbers like they used to give us.
heh, yeh, but more for the reason we waited so many years for it to get done and it is still unfinished with no ETA, it isn't the Sagrada Família ffs!
Grath is onto something that is irritating me, disabling NPC station services, it's a negative mechanic that neither attacking or defending parties would enjoy and would be primarily used for griefing by pirates and wardec corps, thus making lowsec even more terrible, try run your low/null-only incursions with disabled repairing now bitches! LOL! etc.
Not seeink problem.
It's not like they didn't set a precedent when they assraped anoms.
Yes, which is why I then immediately said:
Also, you seem to be making the same mistake again and believing that, not just does The Mittani speak for everyone on the CSM, and represent the opinions of everyone in CCP (after you blamed him for CCP Ytterbium's comment on drakes) but now everyone in Goonswarm!Yet again, unbalanced supercaps constrain CCP and stop them making the game less horrible for both attacker and defender in the majority of fights. Fortunately, they do seem to be beginning to grasp this.
I would like there to be fewer hit points on structures. I might like, say, a mere million hit points on some service and with peak regen of 15,000 so that 25 dudes can gank them in a pretty short amount of time but some solo aspie can't do it at 4am. And so that the targets can rep them up again, which is the corollary.
But so long as you have an essentially untouchable 40-man supercap blob able to cyno in just before downtime into some outlying station, gank the services and cyno out before a midpoint bridge titan can even be found let alone your mythical 1400 man maelstrom fleet be conjured up then no I see no desire to make it even more trivial. Once supercaps are nerfed into oblivion (and I have two, so this isn't your much vaunted GSF nepotism) then all these vistas for improving the game open up.
This is bullshit the vast majority of beginners in nullsec start up - as you rightly pointed out in the drone wars thread - as pets or renters, usually in the east or south. The people who start an alliance and move to NPC space are usually retreads and experienced.EDIT: Also, while you're bitching about 30 dudes making some poorer younger alliance miserable by getting them shit on, your at the same time advocating station services on NPC 0.0 stations, that can be disabled, but not repped, and this same area is where most newborn 0.0 alliances live. Just a tad hypocritical.
My blog: http://endie.net Twitter: EndiePosts
If I forget thee, O Goonfleet dot com, let my right hand forget her typing.
Look man. I am all for owning your argument and shit, but let's be real. I read every line said in the bitchfest that is Goonswarm's leadership channels and I can tell you two things:
1. Yes, everyone wants titans nerfed because we think that their current form is really gay. Probably 100% of us would be happy with your solution of refunding and deleting them.
2. Not one single word has ever been said by any of us about nerfing drakes and you are spinning out of control on the tinfoil bullshit here. Take a deep breath and acknowledge that this is part of the 20% of EVE that isn't a conspiracy. Jesus.
If it takes 5-10 minutes to rep station services, what does it matter if somebody nukes them at dt with a supercap blob?
At that point you're literally wasting fuel.
I mean, defanging a pos now with supers takes about 3 minutes, tops, the whole fucking thing, i think we did one yesterday that had like, 40 guns or some dumb shit on it, no big deal. The guy repping that spent the entire day fixing it.
If the HP were drastically slashed it wouldn't be such a bother if a supercap group went and nuked it all, because while you sped 5 minutes repping it up, you'll be laughing at their 13 billion isk fuel bill.
I think we're misunderstanding something here between each other, because I'm just not getting how supers would be a problem in that situation.
Also we'll have to agree to disagree about the NPC space thing, Curse has dudes in it I've literally never heard of, I'm told Syndicate is similar, they're smallish, newish, and to be honest, the Gorgon Empire guys probably have a pretty decent future ahead of them, they can own pretty hard for their weight (about 30 guys peak roam).
I did, its on this page, post 434, 3rd paragraph, 3rd line.
While I agree that fucking around with cloaking (without significant changes to local and intel tools) is a bad idea, as a current member of the Dirt Nap Squad, I can most definitively state that your second statement is self-evidently wrong, except in the most narrow sense of "Nobody has ever died to a cloaked ship while that ship is cloaked"
Oh, well, that sounds fair, then.
Thats what I mean, its not fair, its stupid. To fix the problem of the supers being able to rape it all in minutes, simply make the repair take only minutes, this also would allow for smaller groups not in supers to do what was intended back when they added station services and moved all the mods out of the POS.
Also this guy here-
No, not really, your original post that I said that to you on, was some snarky bullshit about what alliance I'm from, broken into 2 lines. Thats what I meant when I said "You're attaching the negative to the alliance", your post, pretty much uses my alliance as the basis of the argument against my statements.
And that's the exact point everyone keeps making whenever I point out that yes, they're cloaked, but they can pick and choose the time of their engagement. "But they're cloaked. They can't hurt you when they're cloaked. What are you whining for?". You're just going to have to deal with it, I'm afraid.
At the risk of exposing my level of pubbiness, I'm curious what possible benefits to NPC stations being vulnerable are there? Wouldn't it just push the smaller entities living in NPC space into lowsec, making the deeper parts of sov space even safer?
[URL="http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12609601"][ 2012.03.02 08:32:51 ] Kurth Ren > whereas love squad avoids any engagement that is not a onesided curbstomp[/URL]
[URL="http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=11888507"][ 2012.03.02 08:34:08 ] Kurth Ren > but you are literally arguing with the inventor of broski, you aren't going to win a debate about broski history with me[/URL]
[URL="http://unidan.net/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=1876"][ 2012.03.02 08:40:48 ] Kurth Ren > it's filled with bitter faggots who would rather be slaves to finns and run at the first sign of a fight then go on ops[/URL]
Now you're confusing me. Are you mad about it possibly being possible to rep things up quickly, or that you can rape a whole POS in minutes with supers?
Oh god hold me I'm so confused
I always read it as a useful possible reprisal if someone is living out of a neighbouring NPC area and making your life miserable. Say someone is living out of NPC Pure Blind (again), making the services of those stations vulnerable gives the locals a means to strike back (albeit in a very minor way). Put out all the fitting services in the Sisters of Eve constellation is going to put a cramp in to an alliance using it as a stage point to raid Fade and Pure Blind. It wont do much in the scheme of things, but it would make the locals feel that little less impotent every time the vultures preying constantly on your infrastructure scuttle back into immunity every time you possy up to get them. When I lived in Pure Blind, I prayed constantly that this would be implimented. Now I'm a bit more meh about it, as I'm not sure it would have any 'real' effect in the long run.
Maybe this ties into the 'shortening hp on services' issue. With less hitpoints, it would just be good sense for people in adjacent areas to keep reinforced the whole of Venal, Syndicate, Outer Ring, etc, just to make them unlivable in. With the current hitpoints, you would have to be a masochist (or Boat) to want to do all that hp grinding, so you'll likely save it for special occasions when a particular resident is really getting on your nerves.
hey our ~smallgang~ objective can be waiting for npc station services to become usable again. that sounds like a lot of fun! after, we can go ref yours!
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