Comrade Comrade's list of oldschool PC fun

[Comrade Comrade]

Wooo I made my first thread yay \o/ So here’s a list, it’s not an ultimate list as it has a fair few holes, this because I’m going off my list of games I own and as such I don’t have everything. But I have a lot, and here’s a fair bit of what I got :P Most of these are oldschool games so graphics whores would have no interest in most of these games, and most of the best listed here has been played by a few but there’s prob some decent ones to pick up and waste some time with anyway. Also note, they’re not in any particular order under their respective headings, and I threw in some newer ones but stayed off the super-well known ones, as well as the really really well known older games as well.


Sorry it’s only names I originally started with little descriptions for each but it was A LOT of effort, soz.

RTS:
Command & Conquer: Original Up to Tiberian Sun
Homeworld and Homeworld Cataclysm
Total Annihilation + Core Contingency (and BT I guess, also boring as hell SP)
Imperium Galactica I-II
Populous the Beginning
Ground Control (original)<- Absolutely amazing, amazing 3d camera, good story, voicing, everything.
Dark Reign
Company of Heroes
X-COM Series (oddly enough terror from the deep is my favorite)
Dune II

Honorable Mentions:
Supreme Commander
Homeworld 2
Conquest: The Frontier Wars
Dawn of War I-II
Age of Empires I-II
Hostile Waters: Anateous Rising (sorta doesn’t belong here but whatever)
Darwinia
Dungeon Keeper I-II
TA: Spring

More Decent Timewasters:
Gladiators: Intergalactic Circus
Nexus: The Jupiter Incident
Sacrifice
Metal Fatique
Sudden Strike
Earth Series (2140, 2150 ->)
Stronghold
Cossacks: The European Wars
S.W.I.N.E
__________________________________________________ __________________________________

FPS/Shooters:

Shogo: The Mobile Armor Division
Chronicles of Riddick: Escape From Butcher(y) Bay (Dark Athena has both but securom :/)
Unreal Anthology
Tribes 2
Valve Shit
Thief Series (stealth mostly, but still FPS)
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Alien vs Predator 2
Serious Sam 2
Star Wars: Dark Force Series (includes jedi knight/acad)
Descent Series (putting it here cause it pmuch is)
Daikatana (I kid I kid :P)
No One Lives Forever 1-2
System Shock 2

Honorable Mentions:
Farcry
Codename: Eagle (hesitant to put this here as it hasn’t aged well at all)
Battlezone
Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines
Red Faction Series
Quake(s)
Just Cause 2
SiN Episodes: Emergence
Fear Series
Tron 2.0
Metro 2033
Soldier of Fortune I-II

More Decent Timewasters:
Giants: Citizen Kabuto
Tribes: Vengeance
Max Payne 1-2
Gunman Chronicles
Call of Juarez (first 2)
__________________________________________________ ___________________________

Space-combat Sim/Other Combat Sim:

Tachyon: The Fringe
Mechwarrior 4
IL-2 Sturmvik (pretty much joystick required)
Crimson Skies
Star Wars: Tie Fighter, X-Wing, X-Wing vs Tie, Alliance
Descent: Freespace
Freespace 2 <- best spacecombat sim eva!
Wing Commander Series


Honorable Mentions:
Independence War I-II
Heavy Gear I-II (oh god I hated the default keyboard control scheme)


More Decent Timewasters:
Starlancer
Freelancer
X3: Reunion
__________________________________________________ __________________________________


Action/Adventure/Whatever/WRPG:

Fallout Series (even tactics is ok)
Elder Scrolls II-III (Daggerfall & Morrowind)
Witcher
Dungeon Siege
Silent Storm (doesn’t belong but not making a new category, damn fine game though)
Arcanium
Trackmania (My favorite being sunrise, doesn’t belong here either but it’s awesome)
Knights of the Old Republic
Commander Keen

Honorable Mentions:
Baldurs Gate (it’s here not because I don’t recommend it, but because I’m not a fan)
Titan Quest
Spellforce I-II
King’s Quest
Space Quest
Risen

More Decent Timewasters:
Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion (yah, I like II-III better, by a lot)
Trine
Throne of Darkness
KOTOR II
Sid Mier’s Pirates: Live the Life
Kerbal Space Program (it's awesome, but here cause it's a timewaster and it's life depends on you :< Jebediah Kerman is the best game character ever created).

[Malaclypse]

Rep for Descent and S.W.I.N.E. once I can rep you again. Fuck, I spend weeks with Descent 1 and 2. Too bad Part 3 was too tied to 3dfx once the series finally got pretty graphics.

I have one huge issue though: Where the fuck are the good ol' point-and-click adventures, especially the Sierra and Lucas Arts ones?
* Indiana Jones 3/4
* Monkey Island series
* Sam & Max
* Grim Fandango series
* King's Quest series (esp V and VI)

EDIT: Also my honourable mention would be Blobby Volley, that killed a lot of boring theoretic Informatics classes back in school.

[Comrade Comrade]

I listed King's Quest (King's Quest collection has em cept for the newish ones). I didn't include any of the other lucas arts point and click adventures because I figured they're kinda given already and people would already have played em for sure. Never heard of blobby volley before. The idea behind the different sections are. Main Section: If you like the Genre you should definetely try them out. Honorables: If you've finished all the above go for em, the rest are fun to try if you've exhausted your options as they are still good/decent games.

I'd throw telltales shit too, it's decent, specially their Sam and Max was fair.

[Agathor]

Did you guys ever play Laura Bow in: The Dagger of Amon Ra? In memory it was fun.

Full Trottle was p. sweet to.

[xutech]

I <3 Total Annihilation and CC.

[Comrade Comrade]

Did you guys ever play Laura Bow in: The Dagger of Amon Ra? In memory it was fun.

Full Trottle was p. sweet to.

Yah all of them were pretty fun.

I <3 Total Annihilation and CC.

Yah, Battle Tactics was such a terrible expansion :P And the old multiplayer that boneyard ran from TA was AWESOME. I wish there would be more conquer maps for RTS, would be perfect for Dawn of War really :P

[Malaclypse]

Urghs, yeah, I just spotted KQ, my bad. There's not much missed with the part 7 and 8 anyways. KQ 7 looked heavily like a Disney animated movie and KQ 8 wasn't really a King's Quest game anymore imho. At least it wasn't as bug-riddled as Ultima 9.

Blobby Volley's a small freeware game where you play volleyball with a jelly bean vs either against the AI or another human (via LAN, i-net, or on the same machine (shared keyboard)). It even has a league system nowadays.

[Comrade Comrade]

Urghs, yeah, I just spotted KQ, my bad. There's not much missed with the part 7 and 8 anyways. KQ 7 looked heavily like a Disney animated movie and KQ 8 wasn't really a King's Quest game anymore imho. At least it wasn't as bug-riddled as Ultima 9.

Blobby Volley's a small freeware game where you play volleyball with a jelly bean vs either against the AI or another human (via LAN, i-net, or on the same machine (shared keyboard)). It even has a league system nowadays.

Wow, sounds kinda cool, might check it out. And freeware dear god I forgot Kerbal Space Program!! I also can't believe I forgot Commander Keen, which is AWESOME.

Also just a reminder, there are some games that I should have went off there but I was just going through my notebook that contains the games I own, so there's plenty missing. I shoulda thrown Z in there too :<

[cloaky]

space quest and kings quest but not Leisure suit larry?

Syndicate and to a lesser extent Syndicate Wars.

Elite and Frontier: Elite II

Carrier command

[Malaclypse]

...I shoulda thrown Z in there too :<

Worms! I mean that game fuckin' owned. Just came to mind when looking threw my CDs.

Leisure Suit Larry had it's charm when I was a 13, 14 year old teen, but pixel boobs became really boring for me once I got access to real ones.

Commanche 3/Gold and Falcon 4.0 for Sims btw.

[Comrade Comrade]

space quest and kings quest but not Leisure suit larry?

Syndicate and to a lesser extent Syndicate Wars.

Elite and Frontier: Elite II

Carrier command

Not played a Leisure Suit Larry game, nor do I own them. Don't own syndicate so not on the list, do have wars though. :/

Worms! I mean that game fuckin' owned. Just came to mind when looking threw my CDs.

Leisure Suit Larry had it's charm when I was a 13, 14 year old teen, but pixel boobs became really boring for me once I got access to real ones.

Commanche 3/Gold and Falcon 4.0 for Sims btw.

Worms is cool, not sure if I'd add it. I was more of a lemmings kinda guy. Also completely forgot to add System Shock 2 too the list.

[Brooks Puuntai]

Way to bring up the old Lucas Art shit +1.

I still remember playing Police Quest, Monkey Island, Space Quest, Leisure Suit Larry back when I was a kid. There was another one that dealt with aliens and time travel that I can't remember the name of. Although sadly I went back and tried to play Space Quest recently and just couldn't do it. I guess I've gotten too superficial, but graphics and controls where too dated for me.


edit: Was thinking of Maniac Mansion

[Comrade Comrade]

Was about to say maniac mansion :P Day of the tentacle is famous!

And the space quest games don't look that bad o_0 And controls for point and click haven't really gotten better over the years, still bout the same....

[Jacabon Mere]

Good old rts

Empire Earth 1 is something i would rate as an old awesome game.

patrician 3 (european trading/building game) somewhat like anno 1404 but simpler and more trading focus

Galactic Civ 2

[Pvc]

I can only assume there was some kind of gross oversight... you managed to leave Starcraft and Sc: Broodwar off your list of RTS.

My most sincere apologies if you were unfortunate enough to miss those titles in their hay-day.

[Comrade Comrade]

Good old rts

Empire Earth 1 is something i would rate as an old awesome game.

patrician 3 (european trading/building game) somewhat like anno 1404 but simpler and more trading focus

Galactic Civ 2

Galactic Civ is cool but I'm not a huge turn based fan so pick Sins over it. Never played Patrician but played Anno 1404, good stuff but the combat's terrible.

I can only assume there was some kind of gross oversight... you managed to leave Starcraft and Sc: Broodwar off your list of RTS.

My most sincere apologies if you were unfortunate enough to miss those titles in their hay-day.

I hold SC responsible for ruining the RTS genre and I regret playing it for 2 years :|

edit: Also I specifically left out every blizzard game pmuch (cept for original Warcraft) cause everyone has played them by now, the list was games that a lot of people probably haven't played and would have something new to play ;p

[Zakhodit]

You must suck someone elses cock before giving Comrade Comrade another hummer...

Homeworld and Homeworld Cataclysm - I blame this game directly for the 5 years EVE sucked out of my life. I still play this game. Now that's a mothership!

Company of Heroes - The best of the "modern" puzzle games.

Dawn of War I-II - Found my install disk. Getting some practice in and then we shall meet on the field of glory.

Giants: Citizen Kabuto - I was unable to finish this game because I had a boot leg copy and no matter what I tried the computer would crash to a fatal error at the same part. Got about half way and loved it. (I bet it's cheap now. I should get this.)

Max Payne 1-2 - By far the most fun you can have shooting people in a single player game.

Mechwarrior 4 - I Love this game! No really. Mechwarrior 3 had the best story line but the gameplay in 4 is the best. I'm a huge Mechwarrior geek and this was as close as I could get when all my friends who used to play on the table top grew up/moved away.

X-Wing- I think there was a total of only 371 hours in 1994 I didn't spend playing this game.

Wing Commander Series- I remember when my friend got a 486 and we were amazed at how fast Wing Commander II was.

Freelancer - Almost the greatest space game ever. The only reason it isn't is that the story ended.

I hold SC responsible for ruining the RTS genre and I regret playing it for 2 years :|

Amen. I don't play any RTS anymore. Star Craft burned me out.

So, I'm guessing I have a few years on you so let me dig up the old Commadore 64 gold (you should be able to google an emulator and roms easy. If not when I get home and on a system that lets me see the other 90% of the internet I'll add links.)

Raid Over Bungling Bay - Greatest helo game ever. Makes Choplifter look like Pong.

Impossible Mission - This game is fucking Impossible. No Lie. This is the only "Winnable" game I've ever played and not won. Not even close. Since 1986 there has been a running $100 dollar bet in my family to who ever beats the game. "Just get a walkthrough." A) the internet didn't exist when we started this game. You couldn't Google you way out. B) It doesn't help. This game is seriously hard. Only My cousin and myself still try. Go ahead. Give it a spin. Try not to go mad.

[Spoiler=The Rundown on Impossible Mission]
If you clicked this because you can't help but click spoilers, click it again and walk away.

Seriously.

Gameplay as described on Wikipedia:

The player has six hours of game time to collect 36 puzzle pieces. Every time the player dies, 10 minutes are deducted from the total time. The puzzle pieces are assembled in groups of four. The puzzle pieces overlap, so three pieces can be assembled before the player realizes he must start over. Pieces may be in the wrong orientation, and the player may have to use the horizontal or vertical mirror images. Additionally, the puzzle pieces are randomized in every game. A completed puzzle forms a nine letter password which allows the player to reach Professor Atombender.
The most obvious winning strategy is to avoid dying as much as possible, while systematically searching every object in every room of the base. In many cases, it is much safer to leave a hard-to-search object behind, remembering where it is, and come back to it when a snooze pass is available to you. With six hours of game time, a patient player will spend a good deal of time winning snooze passes from the musical puzzle rooms, rather than risking death and wasting time. A successful player will also manage to memorize the layout of each of the rooms, the location of Atombender's door, as well as the orientation of the puzzle pieces.

This game will grind you into the floor and end you. The puzzle pieces are madness. Imagine a jigsaw puzzle but with no picture for reference. Just random pieces to fit into shapes. It's never the same and getting them to fit is migrane inducing. The above discription makes winning snooze passes from the musical puzzle room sound easy. This is a whole other beast. I don't even try anymore since I haven't gotten anything from the damn music room since 1988


So if you scoff at old school games because you think they are easy, try this.


My own personal hell is when Satan leads me into a room and I have to beat this game on a three inch screen before I can leave.

EDIT: I've never seen Professor Atombender, so I have not tips on how to fight him. [/Spoiler]


ZORK - Zork doesn't even have graphics. Text only. Read a paragraph and then type in commands. This goes back to 1981, the pet computer and really bad alligator polo shirts.

[Bowkers]

Homeworld <3 Bring Sajuuk to bear

[Comrade Comrade]

Company of Heroes - The best of the "modern" puzzle games.

Dawn of War I-II - Found my install disk. Getting some practice in and then we shall meet on the field of glory.

Giants: Citizen Kabuto - I was unable to finish this game because I had a boot leg copy and no matter what I tried the computer would crash to a fatal error at the same part. Got about half way and loved it. (I bet it's cheap now. I should get this.)

Freelancer - Almost the greatest space game ever. The only reason it isn't is that the story ended

ZORK - Zork doesn't even have graphics. Text only. Read a paragraph and then type in commands. This goes back to 1981, the pet computer and really bad alligator polo shirts.

Yo! Haven't played the last 3 you've mentioned ^^ Or even heard of the first 2, though I have heard of ZORK. Company of Heroes not sure if you're mistaking it for something or mistyped that, it's an RTS not puzzle game. If you get into Dawn of War II: Retribution lemme know looking for good teammates, hate getting teamed up with scrubs. As for Giants, I had a game crashing bug as well (somewhere in the second part of the game) and it was a legitmate version so maybe wasn't just you. The MP on it was pretty good fun as well. Freespace 2 was/is loads better then Freelancer btw :P

Homeworld <3 Bring Sajuuk to bear

Homeworld is awesome but I was really disappointed with Homeworld 2, it was cool but very dumbed down, and I REALLY REALLY wanted Homeworld 2: Dust Wars. Shame it got scrapped cause they figured it wouldn't sell well :/

[Bowkers]

There's always Homeworld 3...oh wait :'(

[Comrade Comrade]

Honestly I have hopes, THQ acquired the license from Sierra and they own Relic (They made the original and 2). They don't seem to be working on it at all though which is unfortunate but it's better then Sierra holding onto it and never doing anything with it :/ Also what really kills me (if it's true) is that it's been said that Dust Wars was actually completed/close to completion (which may or may not be true, it was in development for a long time before they switched over) and just never released. If so, I fucking want it so bad!



The trailer for Dust Wars, also there's supposed to be an unreleased extended trailer but v0v.... A couple years ago some documents pertaining to the story and progression were leaked/released and they were a cool read, but it's not much :/ This is back when ships were still supposed to be proper size, not like they were in HW2. And while I did enjoy the story in HW2 what Dust Wars would have been would likely have been better (but dunno :/)

Also yes it was cel shaded :P

Also if you are an RTS fan and you haven't played Ground Control (the original, epic-meh on the second one) give it a shot. IT IS AMAZING, I'd call the game an innovation but it still hasn't been copied properly to this day. Here's a video I did of it but my voice is extremely bland in it and it's probably going to put you too sleep :/

[Malaclypse]

And the space quest games don't look that bad o_0 And controls for point and click haven't really gotten better over the years, still bout the same....

Actually, when I think about Grim Fandango's transmission into the realm of 3D, it even got worse.

Another really good and not quite as old, 2D p&c-adventure comes to mind: Runaway
That was a really well designed, well drawn adventure from a Spanish dev I think. At least in Europe/Germany it was quite successful.

Homeworld and Homeworld Cataclysm - I blame this game directly for the 5 years EVE sucked out of my life. I still play this game. Now that's a mothership!

Freelancer - Almost the greatest space game ever. The only reason it isn't is that the story ended.

The comment regarding Homeworld is true for Freelancer in my case. And well, it's "only" 4 years so far. *sigh:

EDIT: While I posted about it already i nthe RPG thread some days ago, I can't help but to mention it again: Nox! I'm currently playing it again, runs perfectly on Win7 64bit, the light FX and areas may be a bit rusty, but are stll lovely detailed. And while in terms of char development and equipment management Nox isn't able to compete with Diablo II, it makes up for it with a solid storyline and clever gameplay.
Also, it has the most brilliant char creator ever.

[Comrade Comrade]

Actually, when I think about Grim Fandango's transmission into the realm of 3D, it even got worse.

Another really good and not quite as old, 2D p&c-adventure comes to mind: Runaway
That was a really well designed, well drawn adventure from a Spanish dev I think. At least in Europe/Germany it was quite successful.

Never heard of it, also just bought a game that's not really a point and click but sorta similar (and it's not PC). It's called The Space Adventure, worth trying out on an emulator (sega cd)

[Malaclypse]

You can actually get it (and the 2 sequels) on Steam. I haven't played 2 and 3, but Runaway: A Road Adventure really was the best point-and-click adventure I've played since Monkey Island 3 and Fate of Atlantis.

[Comrade Comrade]

You can actually get it (and the 2 sequels) on Steam. I haven't played 2 and 3, but Runaway: A Road Adventure really was the best point-and-click adventure I've played since Monkey Island 3 and Fate of Atlantis.

Maybe I'll give it a shot, but I'm not huge on the point and click adventures. They're fun and all but not my most favorite game type by a long shot. Also I hate buying games on steam because I like having physical copies :P

EDIT: While I posted about it already i nthe RPG thread some days ago, I can't help but to mention it again: Nox! I'm currently playing it again, runs perfectly on Win7 64bit, the light FX and areas may be a bit rusty, but are stll lovely detailed. And while in terms of char development and equipment management Nox isn't able to compete with Diablo II, it makes up for it with a solid storyline and clever gameplay.
Also, it has the most brilliant char creator ever.

NoX is cool and interesting, least from what I've seen. Friend of mine has it and I've seen him play it. Also if you ever have trouble getting your oldschool games play on 7/XP try out gog.com (good old games), they don't have physical copies which means I buy pretty much nothing from them but I think what they do is great. They take older games and package em in one installer which is easy install on XP/7, just a regular installer and it's all patched and ready to run. No messing with ini settings or constantly setting affinity and stuff like that, and they have an AWESOME selection of games for pretty damn good prices. I know it looks like I'm sucking their cock, and the truth is I am, they are pretty damn good, I own Freespace 2 and still got the gog Freespace 2 to play.

[Bowkers]

Honestly I have hopes, THQ acquired the license from Sierra and they own Relic (They made the original and 2).

Well, sadly, Relic seems too wrapped up with Games Workshop to go back the old gem that is Homeworld with DoW3 set to be announced this August

[Comrade Comrade]

Even when they acquired it it didn't seem like they were going towards one.... I think maybe your mixing up Space Marine with Dawn of War 3, I don't think DoW3 is anywhere close to being released :< But I do wish they would do another though... (HW I mean).

[Arrador]

Loved Battlezone and its sequel. Also worth mentioning is the community made expansion to BZII, Forgotten Enemies.

[Comrade Comrade]

I wasn't especially enamored with the sequel tbh :/

[Bowkers]

Difference between announced and released Comrade.

[Comrade Comrade]

Difference between announced and released Comrade.

Ah, you are correct Didn't read that and assumed you mixed it up cause Space Marine is coming out august :P Hasn't it already been announced o_0? Already been interviews about it :<

[cloaky]

one other that springs to mind as missing is Dune 2000 the forebear of the C&C series

[Comrade Comrade]

one other that springs to mind as missing is Dune 2000 the forebear of the C&C series

Dune II is moreso than 2000, hell it's the father of the RTS pretty much ^^ And you are right, it does deserve a spot on the list. Also since you mentioned spring I'll note that I was debating adding TA: Spring too the list, not sure if I should. Definitely deserves a spot in terms of awesome but :S

Edit: Ah hell, it's it's own engine so going on there.

[Malaclypse]

Dune II is moreso than 2000, hell it's the father of the RTS pretty much ^^ And you are right, it does deserve a spot on the list.

I never got why they called the first game "Dune II". And yeah, Dune 2000 actually was released between Red Alert and Tiberian Sun.

[Comrade Comrade]

I never got why they called the first game "Dune II". And yeah, Dune 2000 actually was released between Red Alert and Tiberian Sun.

Cause there was another Dune game made before it, not made by Westwood and not an RTS but same publisher so v0v.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_%28video_game%29

[John Smith]

Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance is the best RTS made to date. Men of War is a very good one also.

[Pvc]

I hold SC responsible for ruining the RTS genre and I regret playing it for 2 years :|

By making every other RTS look like terrible? Can't say that I follow... SC2 OTOH, I could agree with regretting.

[Malaclypse]

Cause there was another Dune game made before it, not made by Westwood and not an RTS but same publisher so v0v.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(video_game)

Thxalot, that's indeed an explanation. Memory might trick me but Virgin seemed like a rather decent, dev friendly publisher.

[Bowkers]

Sword of the stars anyone?

[Night]

Sword of the stars anyone?

Please no. It's a worse game then EVE.

[Comrade Comrade]

By making every other RTS look like terrible? Can't say that I follow... SC2 OTOH, I could agree with regretting.

No, it was merely an ok RTS. It was very well polished and had a good story (of which it heavily borrowed to create ;p) but it wasn't anything special. The game itself wasn't very strategic either, the crux of the game was build orders and while when you get up the ladder it gets a *little* more indepth then that it was still a big step down in complexity then other RTS out there.

Unfortunately that tickled the fancy of a lot of people since they didn't want complicated, which is fine I like a good no-brainer RTS mashup as well (original Dawn of War) but unfortunately it changed the RTS market permanently after that, before you had the staple amazing RTS. Even the great franchises tried to get a slice of the newly created gigantic pie. You had great games like C&C pump out RA2 and Generals, HW Dust Wars was dumbed down in HW2, even supcom wasn't up to TA's standards and that was considered a "hard core" RTS.

Occasionally we get a game that tries to throw down against the new order for RTS, but the most successful one that comes to mind is Company of Heroes and despite it's amazingness it didn't do as well as it should have, and DoW2 which used the same engine and dumbed it down mostly (although it added the melee dimension, and thankfully it wasn't that far dumbed down) is getting a 3rd sequel while CoH and Relic's flagship game HW gathers dust because (and I'm paraphrasing from an interview here) *people don't want to fight with a 3rd (z) axis involved, it's too difficult for them*.

SC2 is a big step up in strategic thinking for SC, but still very heavy on the build orders and the core mechanics (hell the core game :P) is the same, yet it sold like hot cakes. So it's just another nail in the coffin of RTS games of old, farewell

Sword of the stars anyone?

MMM... not list worthy for me.

Thxalot, that's indeed an explanation. Memory might trick me but Virgin seemed like a rather decent, dev friendly publisher.

Don't really know if they were dev friendly or not, most publishers were back then even EA. Different industry :| They sunk all their cashie money into one last dune game that failed epicly and they went thumbs up. Happens sometimes... Like Cavedog, Total A was AMAZING but then they put out Kingdoms and it's a nosedive into bankruptcy from there...

Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance is the best RTS made to date. Men of War is a very good one also.

Do you play any oldschool RTS? Total A + Core Contingency maybe? Ground Control? Homeworld/Homeworld:Cataclysm?

[Zakhodit]

Yo! Haven't played the last 3 you've mentioned ^^ Or even heard of the first 2, though I have heard of ZORK.

Yeah, unlikely that you would unless you played around with computers in the late 80's

Company of Heroes not sure if you're mistaking it for something or mistyped that, it's an RTS not puzzle game.

This is where you had to sneak your dudes around and accomplish missions and stuff? I may be thinking something else...

If you get into Dawn of War II: Retribution lemme know looking for good teammates, hate getting teamed up with scrubs.

Currently a Scrub. I'll let you know when the computer is no longer stomping on my ass.

As for Giants, I had a game crashing bug as well (somewhere in the second part of the game) and it was a legitmate version so maybe wasn't just you. The MP on it was pretty good fun as well.

Ah yeah, that's where mine would crash. Ok so borked game then.

Freespace 2 was/is loads better then Freelancer btw :P

Never got to play it. Looks like I have to now.

Homeworld is awesome but I was really disappointed with Homeworld 2, it was cool but very dumbed down,

This. Someone must have felt they would sell more copies if they configured it for a third grader.

The comment regarding Homeworld is true for Freelancer in my case. And well, it's "only" 4 years so far. *sigh:

I could see that with Freelancer, but either way, it took me 5 years to realize that EVE just wasn't the game I wanted it to be.

By making every other RTS look like terrible? Can't say that I follow... SC2 OTOH, I could agree with regretting.

Comrade summed this up well, but my reasons are entirely different. I playtested Brood Wars in 1998. It was actually my Job. I worked for a company called Saffire and for 90 days all I did was play Star Craft. After that, any RTS isn't different enough for me to feel like I'm playing something new. Supreme Commander had me for a bit but when it boils down to it, it's all about building a mass of units and then trampling your foe with them. *yawn*

[Comrade Comrade]

This is where you had to sneak your dudes around and accomplish missions and stuff? I may be thinking something else...

I think what you're talking about is commando's. Few games like that but that's the most popular.

[Zakhodit]

YES! That's it. Commandos.


Holy hell, I just had an old man moment. Aging is shitty.

[Comrade Comrade]

YES! That's it. Commandos.


Holy hell, I just had an old man moment. Aging is shitty.

If you liked that (I didn't) I urge you to try Silent Storm, same type of game cept awesome :P

[Zakhodit]

Commando's was good for a play. But I didn't like it enough to look for more.

Incedently I had nightmares about Impossible Mission. My thearapist thanks you.

[Ripline]

Any other classic "End of the Line" games there other than Freespace 2? The kind which were both the definitive masterpiece of the genre and about the last of their kind.

Just to throw few more names out there: Planescape Torment, Master of Orion , Master of Magic.

And I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned..*drumroll*... Star Control II. A genuine masterpiece, great writing, offbeat storyline, decent gameplay and something of a genre crossover.

[Comrade Comrade]

Well sims kinda just dropped off mostly, especially space combat sims, and most other genres are still alive and kicking. Mechwarrior 4 has been the ultimate mech-combat sim for a good long while though and is likely to be. I'm not a huge fan of turn based games so that's why you don't see a ton on my list (there are a few though). Never seen star control afore

As for RTS though I think it'd be very tough to beat the ultimate 3 in my opinion, Total Annihilation for AMAZING multiplayer and and overall awesome game, Homeworld 1/Cataclysm for AMAZING story and good multiplayer as well as overall awesome games, and Ground Control as the best singleplayer RTS experience there is. And if you watched my video I posted about GC above (not surprised if you didn't it's not the most fun :P) I noted that it is likely to be the best forever as extreme focus on SP nowadays isn't where RTS shine.

edit: Except I suppose for point-click-adventures although they seem to be resurging now, but pretty much the lucas arts point click adventure catalog.

[Pvc]

No, it was merely an ok RTS. It was very well polished and had a good story (of which it heavily borrowed to create ;p) but it wasn't anything special. The game itself wasn't very strategic either, the crux of the game was build orders and while when you get up the ladder it gets a *little* more indepth then that it was still a big step down in complexity then other RTS out there.

Unfortunately that tickled the fancy of a lot of people since they didn't want complicated, which is fine I like a good no-brainer RTS mashup as well (original Dawn of War) but unfortunately it changed the RTS market permanently after that, before you had the staple amazing RTS. Even the great franchises tried to get a slice of the newly created gigantic pie. You had great games like C&C pump out RA2 and Generals, HW Dust Wars was dumbed down in HW2, even supcom wasn't up to TA's standards and that was considered a "hard core" RTS.

Occasionally we get a game that tries to throw down against the new order for RTS, but the most successful one that comes to mind is Company of Heroes and despite it's amazingness it didn't do as well as it should have, and DoW2 which used the same engine and dumbed it down mostly (although it added the melee dimension, and thankfully it wasn't that far dumbed down) is getting a 3rd sequel while CoH and Relic's flagship game HW gathers dust because (and I'm paraphrasing from an interview here) *people don't want to fight with a 3rd (z) axis involved, it's too difficult for them*.

SC2 is a big step up in strategic thinking for SC, but still very heavy on the build orders and the core mechanics (hell the core game :P) is the same, yet it sold like hot cakes. So it's just another nail in the coffin of RTS games of old, farewell

I don't think I could disagree with you more.

Firstly, starcraft recieved continued polish for over a decade. Show me another RTS that recieved that kind of love and i'll gladly eat my hat. Second, no other RTS had one tenth the mutiplayer replay value. Be they lacking a solid networking solution (battlenet was great for it's day), lack of previously mentioned iteration on balance, or simple over-emphasis on single-player campeigning that doomed a lot of (i'll call out C&C on this one) RTS games in that era. I'm not a blizzard fanboi and I never took to the diablo series or WoW, but starcraft rightfully deserves a hall of fame position in RTS history.

Also, SC2 has thus far been a pathetic attempt at re-capturing the glory of it's predecessor and I can only hope they continue to fiddle with the game as they did with SC and BW until it actually earns the right to bear the title. I could write a laundry list of issues i've got with SC2, but i'll cut myself short here and save you a wall of text.

[Comrade Comrade]

I don't think I could disagree with you more.

Firstly, starcraft recieved continued polish for over a decade. Show me another RTS that recieved that kind of love and i'll gladly eat my hat. Second, no other RTS had one tenth the mutiplayer replay value. Be they lacking a solid networking solution (battlenet was great for it's day), lack of previously mentioned iteration on balance, or simple over-emphasis on single-player campaigning that doomed a lot of (i'll call out C&C on this one) RTS games in that era. I'm not a blizzard fanboi and I never took to the diablo series or WoW, but starcraft rightfully deserves a hall of fame position in RTS history.

Also, SC2 has thus far been a pathetic attempt at re-capturing the glory of it's predecessor and I can only hope they continue to fiddle with the game as they did with SC and BW until it actually earns the right to bear the title. I could write a laundry list of issues i've got with SC2, but i'll cut myself short here and save you a wall of text.

You really didn't disagree with me that much? Basically all you said was that it had an online service that stayed up and it kept getting patches, neither of which were points that I really talked about. What do you mean multiplayer replay value? It's the same replay value bar the use-map-settings maps which were pretty fun but got old after a little while and also completely user-generated. In terms of user-generated content most other RTS are better as the SC mods are pretty week and the MP components were usually largely unpopulated/impossible. Basically all Starcraft had online was that you could go online and play, go to crappy channels, and the different game modes (the 3 popular ones being standard, ladder, and use-map-settings). It was hardly above standard....

And as counter I provide you Total Annihilation, which clearly you never played the MP component (did you even play the regular game?). Boneyards provided the online for years and not only did it have everything that battlenet provided but it also had the extremely popular conquest maps. Basically each side had a map of the universe to take over and everyone fought regular games won/lost counted towards controlling different sectors. It was a lot more fun than the way I make it sound as you'd have to really play it, but they were fiercly contested and it was a a real addition to the MP component.

As for continuing support not only was Total A supported afterwards with expansions and patches (CC was an amazing expansion, adding not just a few units but TONS of them, and BT expansion which added more maps then you could count) but also with lots of free content, many downloadable units (free of course) and map editor etc, and the only thing that Blizzard didn't charge for was the map editor. Total Annihilation was the ultimate MP RTS experience and was hardly focused on the SP campaign (SP campaign was lame), and it was even released before Starcraft.

You may think SC2 is a pathetic attempt to relive the glory but considering how amazingly well it sold and will sell with the next iterations I'd say that it was a success. I don't like the game as it still isn't as good as it should be but comparatively it is a step up from the original Starcraft.

tl;dr SC sucks Total A better.

edit: And I have to seriously disagree with this statement

simple over-emphasis on single-player campeigning that doomed a lot of (i'll call out C&C on this one) RTS games in that era

The SP is what made C&C such a raging success, the MP focus of the later games was more of a failure then the SP.