So many stupid trolls, When alliance spends great amount of isk on something its called isk sink.
So many stupid trolls, When alliance spends great amount of isk on something its called isk sink.
Sov, LP store (doesn't match mission/incursion payouts though), expired insurance, corp/alliance upkeep fees, market/contracting fees, CSPA charges, smuggling fines, isk held by banned accounts, wardecs.
That's all I can think of right now.
Plus Leetcheese getting caught botting
EVE is in a weird state where it's hedging against inflation through the insurance-minerals exchange of ships, and through users constantly desubbing and new ones joining and splitting the pool of isk
considering the fountain that are missions/rats, i'm genuinely surprised the game isn't way way more fucked than it is
THE GREATEST POSTER
Too keep everyone from getting confused (and rightly so) whenever CCP talks about ISK Sinks and Faucets they're talking about the pool of isk available to all players, or as TGR says the "global pool" (basically if it's isk in a player accessible wallet, be it corp or personal, or the temporary contract "wallet" or market "wallet"). Not you personal wallet, or the pool between 2 people, or an alliance, or whatever else your talking about. ISK Sinks take isk away from the pool and faucets give to the pool.
Things that are NOT isk faucets.
Mining = It has value, but it does not add isk to the game
Drone NPCs (the non-bounty ones ie most of them)
Selling shit to other players on market/contracts
Stuff that are isk faucets:
ISK Mission Rewards
Stuff that is an isk sink:
Transaction Taxes (that end up in NPC wallet)
Initial Insurance fees (though most of the time the insurance pays out and it's far higher so insurance overall is a faucet)
Skillbooks (and other NPC supplied market items)
LP Store (when you pay isk to the NPCs)
Convo fees (if you have em).
Course there's tons of isk sinks and faucets, and plenty of neutral stuff as well :P
I think it's the ultra-capitalist nature of the game holding the worst parts of inflation in check.
A few individuals are holding such a large percentage of the liquid ISK in the game that by not circulating it they are actually helping stave off inflation. I just realized how Twilight Zone that is with it being the opposite of how the economy works in RL. Can someone with an actual education tell me if I'm right or wrong?
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Comrade Comrade again.
ISK sinks and faucets over a 24 hour period seven months ago, per CCP Chronotis:
* Bounty Prizes 876,039,478,466
* Agent Mission Reward 68,923,141,163
* Agent Mission Time Bonus 63,450,447,585
* Insurance Payouts 111,942,877,603
* Sales Tax 6,227,911,218
* Brokers fee 6,733,818,276
* PI Construction Costs 7,575,185,000
* PI Import Tax 290,289,843
* PI Export Tax 3,355,153,925
* Insurance Cost 43,021,823,156
* Clone Activation 20,197,210,000
* Sovereignty Bill 59,332,000,000
* LP Store 135,343,150,000
I think the person quoted in the OP was referring to the fact that a ship has ISK value when it's destroyed because it could have been resold. But he's confused because that it isn't actually an ISK sink, it's more like the opportunity cost of flying the ship. I'm terrible at economics though vOv
The largest (most likely as I don't have actual data) is the sov fees.
There's a ton of small ones though.
Market Fees (NPC)
Other NPC supplied goods (bpos etc)
Corp creation fees.
Offices/Factories/Labs in NPC owned stations
Insurance fees (but in the end the payout is much larger and most of the time it gets paid out so overall it becomes a faucet).
and I have someone yelling at me to do some work so I'm gonna have to leave it at that, but there's plenty, but small ones.
Isn't insurance as a whole an isk sink? I have no facts to support this, but I would assume that more ship insurance contracts expire than are paid out. I know every time I insure a ship, it usually comes with a mail or two telling me some have expired.
When titans first came out I said they were too cheap. I said they needed to by priced 5x to 10x more. They were far better than motherships and nearly not as much as an isk sink back then. Back then goons said its too hard to get titans, now they say the opposite vocally. lol.
Now that they aren't aoe its not as big of a deal. Tough supercarrier/titan price is a bit too cheap still, so it makes dreads/carriers obsolete. If anything the only thing that might need to be balanced is cost of the ships, not their uses, thats good. But you can't change cost after they have been made, thats unfair advantage.
There always is a staggering amount of isk going into the game, they would have to do some very large changes to fix that, and it's not that they can just remove isk faucets easy. Say you take one of the largest (if not the largest), NPC bounties. You remove them, now this is never gonna fly since there's almost no reward ratting so you would have to replace it with something. Then you help slow down inflation but then you get a devauling of something. Say that is larger loot drops or more salvage or whatever. So isk inflation is slowed, but now that loot decreases in value because of an increase in supply, and it's likely to be melted down so minerals will decrease in value.
So there's some cool ideas like "fixing" insurance payouts by replacing the isk payout with a hull delivered to where you want or something similar but then that just crashs the ship building market. You have to walk a very fine line to keep inflation in check, especially as you can't just keep everything "the same." If there was no inflation then overall isk per person would be less because more new people come every day and inflation also has some benefits, as does deflation. And it's a tough as hell job, so far CCP haven't exactly done super awesome at it but it's kept healthy enough for a long time and that's very telling, so give em a golf clap.
Now don't mistake this post as a "good job mr ccp economy guy!" cause that Dr. dickfuck they hired is a moron and the stuff he does has far wider ranging consequences than just isk value.
edit: And you have JBs and all sorts of other things to make making a titan easier to, so people can do it solo instead of it being a "team" effort.
For the dribblers who still don't understand how sinks/faucets work, I, at great personal effort, whipped up this handy infographic using Microsoft-brand image manipulation sofware:
So what happens when your ISK faucets do this?
Reposted from r/wtf
Just remembered NPC office fees too.
But 800bn a day into the economy would fit the bill of giving their economist an ulcer, and force them to justify and shoehorn in adhoc nerfs to the faucets. Even to the point of slipping in some as "undocumented features" (specifically when anoms started taking 6 - 10 minutes to respawn once cleared instead of 1 or 2).
I'm gonna attempt to explain this, and prob get neg repped for it but oh well xD
A is how much liquid isk person one has
B is how much liquid isk person two has
C is how much liquid isk person one and person two has.
Person A gathers 15 billion isk to buy a super carrier. So A=15
Person B is broke but mines enough minerals for a super carrier and puts it up for sale. So B=0 (since his wallet has 0 liquid isk in it)
If you add both of their liquid isk amounts together you get 15.
Now Person A buys a super carrier from Person B for 15b liquid isk. So A=0 and B=15 now.
There is no new isk introduced to the game, Person B has the isk now and Person A has the super carrier.
Person A decides to test out his new super carrier even though he has no liquid isk and dies in a fire. Person B goes on vacation in RL and cant log into his game while for a few weeks.
Person A still has 0 liquid isk so A=0. Person B still has 15b liquid isk so B=15.
0+15=15 still so no isk was lost when the super carrier blew up.. There for it is not a global isk sink..
Yes person A is now broke, but person B was broke at the start of it. Now person B has 15b isk and person A is in the same spot person B was at the very start. No isk was destroyed (since person B didn't pay CCP for the minerals, he mined them) just the minerals (and time) person B mined were destroyed. Thus, losing a ship is not a GLOBAL isk sink. All the money that was in the game before is still there, just some one else is holding on to it..
You have 200m in your wallet.. You find a Tengu sitting in a pos and you figure out the password. You steal said Tengu but die to a gate camp in the next system. You still have 200m in your wallet.. You did not lose ANY isk, so no isk sink.
I wont even touch on the insurance part as most people are having problems understanding that the isk isn't disappearing much less that isk is appearing out of no where when a ship blows up... o.O
Hope that explanation helped..
Black Legion... Muninns... OMAI!
As far as ISK sinks go, some people already mentioned this - but the relevant ISK for inflation / market prices is the ISK in circulation, not the actual ISK in existence. Someone (let's call him Mr. Lau for no real reasons) with 15 trillion ISK in his wallet who does not do anything with it is in effect an ISK sink of 15 trillion ISK - it's "out of the market". It makes the (in-game) economist happy if they unsubscribe, too. The problem with this kind of "ISK sink" is that they can become an "ISK faucet" of enormous proportions really quickly.
I guess this is actually the main reason why the EVE economy hasn't collapsed yet. A lot of ISK is "hoarded" on a few accounts and not actively used there.
We need Isk Sink modules for ships. They'd go really well with my isk tanked officer fitted lvl 4 running carebear nightmare
As a serious addition to this thread.
Bugger having insurance pay out as a function of just ship value.
They need to do 2 things.
Uninsured Ships pay out at zero. U didn't insure it so u don't get a payout.
Work the insurance as a more "profitable" enterprise. How can any insurance company survive if 111b was payed out on revenue of 44b in a day ????
An another thing.... what ever happen to the idea of the stock market i heard they wanted to put into eve a long time ago. While thats not an Isk sink or faucet it is a mover of isk and an incentive to get large amounts of capital back into the market plus some great new ways to run ponzi schemes
I suppose, introducing planetary interaction fucked up the pos-fuel isk sink then (though lots of fun was had when the forward-looking guys hoarded PI commodities while they were still on the NPC market)/
Tgr, you're a hero for this thread. Proves how dumb some people who play this game really are.
Yes, and no. It's all a matter of perspective, some people might not have thought beyond their isk leaving them. I know of at least one which I've managed to educate because of this, and I won't call them dumb as long as they understand after having it explained to them.
MrGauky, however, doesn't seem to have been one of them.
The way I was thinking of it, is that when someone spends time getting the minerals and building a ship, which then gets blown up, that person could have spent the same amount of time doing something which doesnt just get blown up (e.g. ratting). Thus less isk is the game than would have otherwise been.
That this isn't an actual 'isk sink' though is obvious to me now, but not sure why a whole thread was needed for a pointless covo
Fair enough. As for the "whole thread", blame hratli smirks for that I think. I certainly didn't ask for it.
Ship spinning is the ultimate isk sink. Think of how much isk there would be more in the game if all the hours spent ship spinning had been spent running missions or ratting bounty NPC's.
Neat a sink/faucet discussion.
Sadly I was a couple hours late and Comrade already summed it up . So where does this discussion go from here?
Isk Sinks include but not limited to sov bills, clones, war decs, and skill book as stated anything that removes isk from the game
i wish to add my contribute on this discussion
Putting wallets in a negative Balance after they got caught Botting/RMTing would be another sink
Game needs more ISK sinks. One thing they should definitely do is remove NPC buy orders on everything. The good tags (required for LP store items) will still see circulation, the bad tags (like almost all faction spawn tags) are already worth almost nothing and that won't change. It won't do a lot, but it's the direction EVE is going anyway, so it's consistent.
I think ratting should probably just earn you mostly LP with the "opposing" faction. Rat Guristas, earn Caldari LP; rat Angels, earn Minmatar. It'll crash the LP store, but doing it this way allows you to tweak the ISK payout component dynamically to balance money supply while not making your player base angry. Having variable ratting ISK payouts would be another way for CCP to control the money supply in addition to the dynamic adjustment of insurance payouts - plus, if you scaled it based on how many people were ratting some faction, you'd create incentives to go elsewhere for your ratting. How overpopulated would the north have been if Guristas BS capped out at 200k per?