MAX3: Nothing Personal (Tribute, Pure Blind, Venal)

[Some Market Dude]

The NC isn't losing because they can't out supercap blob, they're losing because they can't even hold a jammer when they have complete cap/supercap superiority in a jammed system.

Do you think the goonbrella works because they suddenly have supercap superiority with the goons' mighty armada of 3 titans added? Are they going to lose the :iskwar: when all their venal and tribute tech is gone?

Unfortunately even under a jammed system the NC needs > 3:1 odds to hold the jammer. It's far more likely that Goons will get sick of propping up the NC than the NC becoming able to hold a jammer on their own.

[lolol]

ha, the time honored spelling mistake attack. You forgot the grammar attack though

[Comrade Comrade]

ha, the time honored spelling mistake attack. You forgot the grammar attack though

Apparently you can't even read. I said NOT EVEN. So I was discounting the terrible spelling, grammar, and bit that made no sense.

edit: Although GJ butchering it now that you brought it up, and English is probably your first language too :|

[Dave T]

I don't really see NC getting many regular privately owned supercap pilots they can bring into a fight until they change their pay us a billion and if we welp your supercap or let it die as we jump out to save some carriers we'll give you a base hull some day when we get around to building one thats not already sold to our enemies but don't worry you'll need that time to grind for fittings anyway insurance program.

What amazes me, really, is that with all of the spreadsheet geeks we have in Eve nobody has done the math yet. The amount of Tech is pretty much known. The amount of time is pretty much known. What the sov payments cost is pretty much known. Reimbursed losses are probably a drop in the bucket. What's the difference? I think it's my assumption and a lot of people's assumption that there's enough isk there for the NC to easily hand out titans and scs to every pilot who could fly one unless it went *ahem* elsewhere. Is there?

Lets face it, if you're leading some large alliance like, for example, ROL, and you've got access to trillions, and those trillions are fairly easily convertible to cash, it's a huge temptation for most folks. Of course, if you get too greedy, you don't have the reserves to defend your sand-castle if someone comes to kick it down.

[tgr]

Apparently you can't even read. I said NOT EVEN. So I was discounting the terrible spelling, grammar, and bit that made no sense.

edit: Although GJ butchering it now that you brought it up, and English is probably your first language too :|

Serenity now. Oooooommmmmmmmmm.

[Russian God]

We did not back off of tribute because of the GSF.... we have one more region to clean up with a few stations not under our control at this time. It would of been stupid to do so. You just don't get Russians I guess or the art of war. We put our super caps (in mass) on the field and will do so again at some point....more than I can say for the NC.

[true]

Fun fact, it is NC is fighting against all odds here while every offending party lost their "l33t underdog" tag. I'm calling props

[Comrade Comrade]

Serenity now. Oooooommmmmmmmmm.

Goosfrabaaaaaaaaaaa

:P

I do find it funny that you think I'm raging. I just think he's an idiot, and as such awarded him my very first negrep \o/.

[lolol]

Thank you. I will post furiously for GSF to not help NC so you can also plusrep me at some point. They will read it i am sure.

[tgr]

Goosfrabaaaaaaaaaaa

I didn't think you were raging, but it had all the signs of turning into a shitflinging.

Also, don't forget woosaa.

(why the fuck aren't they making movies of that caliber these days )

[Makia Velli]

I seriously spent the last fucking two hours trying to fix this shit, but fuck it (its huge so let it load).

[SPOILER=Awesome gif][/SPOILER]

Play the .gif with while this song is in the background. Har har

I don't know why but I think it fits better than Benny Hill. Its got to be the cymbals.

I think this improved version is even better soundtrack Heavy Breakfast Machine

[Mizuchi]

Do gsf really only have like 5 titans or is it some giant troll?

Also, the NC bring in alot of isk via tech, but you have to realise if they just dumped it all on the market, the market would just crash and it'd be worthless. they probably have a huge stockpile somewhere. but regardless, they should have the isk for a decent supercap reimbursement atleast

[Phreeze]

The NC is losing because all of their best FC's are now in PL, Goonswarm, or have quit.

[Xorn]

Do gsf really only have like 5 titans or is it some giant troll?

I think I've seen up to 40 gsf supers before? At least online at the same time so probably even more than that.

[lolol]

The NC is losing because all of their best FC's are now in PL, Goonswarm, or have quit.

Fortunately you are not one of those FC's...

[Mira Z]

Also, the NC bring in alot of isk via tech, but you have to realise if they just dumped it all on the market, the market would just crash and it'd be worthless.

On the day it's finally all over, the last thing the NC probably will do is dump it on the market to cause a crash. A last fuck off to their conquerers.

[Fix Lag]

On the day it's finally all over, the last thing the NC probably will do is dump it on the market to cause a crash. A last fuck off to their conquerers.

They're too greedy to try this.

[Faife]

Fortunately you are not one of those FC's...

his evidence is kicking your ass over and over, what's your evidence?

[Mira Z]

They're too greedy to try this.

I'd imagine if the NC falls, a lot of the leaders will be quiting the game. If that's the case, then why not crash the market.

[pinoyzzz]

The NC is losing because all of their best FC's are now in PL, Goonswarm, or have quit.

Name a single good NC FC that is now in PL

[Fix Lag]

Because they RMT'd all the tech ages ago.

At least, that's the theory.

[Comrade Comrade]

Thank you. I will post furiously for GSF to not help NC so you can also plusrep me at some point. They will read it i am sure.

Reading comprehension :< It's not because of your posts for the GSF not to help the NC. I don't care if they do or not, it's your posting I take issue with.

I didn't think you were raging, but it had all the signs of turning into a shitflinging.

Also, don't forget woosaa.

(why the fuck aren't they making movies of that caliber these days )

I kinda liked Just Go With It :< Although I have to say that's in large part because of the scenes with Brooklyn Decker in a bikini.

[lolol]

his evidence is kicking your ass over and over, what's your evidence?

You are assuming i am in the NC. Why? Because i am not joining the parade of cocks sucking each other off at kugu.com?

Elementary...

[Dwergi]

Fun fact, it is NC is fighting against all odds here while every offending party lost their "l33t underdog" tag. I'm calling props

Not numerically. Napkin math:

DRF:
xDeath - 1072
Solar - 1143
Red - 2025
White Noise - 1378
Raiden - 1654
PL - 1639
NCdot - 1279
Ev0ke - 906
Merciless - 674
IRC - 1977
Total: 13747

NC:
MM - 4114
Razor - 2472
Goons - 6484
TEST - 4869
Majesta - 1858
RAGE - 1125
WIdot - 2743
MH - 3263
Total: 26928

I don't think I need to continue, but I really could: WTF (845), UFA (3554), TNT (1581), Stella (716), FA (1738), FCON (1688), LAWN (973), Gypsy (997), Wayfarer (496), SpaceMonkey's (888), OWN (514), BricK (691), etc. That's 41609 so far, if anyone's keeping count.

I think it still counts as underdogs.

[Some Market Dude]

The market has been consuming far above the daily output of tech for over a year now. The price is skyrocketing because of consumption, not hoarding.

Ignoring the possibility of significant rmt, the two huge drains on tech income are over-development and decentralization. The former is mostly the jb system, where they have one in every gd system, but also tons of stations and their corresponding jamming. It's the latter that really drains the potential out of the income though. How much isk is sitting in the wallets of unsubbed directors and afk ceos? How much has been poured into faction-pimped ratting ships, loss-making industrial projects, ratting supers that will never see a fleet? The list goes on. Even ignoring the likely possibility of massive rmt, it's easy to see how all that wealth can get wasted by incompetence and greed.

[Grim]

numbers

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when people pull this shit. All that matters is active fleet numbers, and of course, supercap numbers.

Right now, if the NC brought the same supercap numbers they had in Uemon at the start of this war they would still be outnumbered.

At the very least this is an even fight numbers wise.

[Brooks Puuntai]

The market has been consuming far above the daily output of tech for over a year now. The price is skyrocketing because of consumption, not hoarding.

Was about to post the same thing. The fact that every t2 item/ship requires a lot of 2 components(nanotrans and fullerides) is causing the skyrocket. I doubt theres a "Tech Mafia" regulating the price. It also has to do with the isk faucet thats been talked about. With more isk flowing allows people to be able to afford using t2 ships more often which even more increases the demand. Also factor in that the flow of tech moons has been slowed alot since the changes due to constant warfare in the north.

edit: sorry the grammar sucks but I'm too tired atm to fix it.

[Dwergi]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when people pull this shit. All that matters is active fleet numbers, and of course, supercap numbers.

But that's kind of the point of these exercises. NCdot/Merciless pull 100-150 into a fleet regularly out of a total of 2000 toons. At 5% participation, the NC should be fielding 2000 people on a daily basis. That it's not doing so is the hilarity of it. It's an organization that's rotten to the core and is losing a war to a conglomeration a quarter of its size. That speaks volumes of both motivation and the nature of the alliances that form it.

The NC's also gone down in size by about 5000 pilots in the past months, so I like doing an occasional tally (and I was bored).

[Nirgal]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when people pull this shit. All that matters is active fleet numbers, and of course, supercap numbers.

Right now, if the NC brought the same supercap numbers they had in Uemon at the start of this war they would still be outnumbered.

At the very least this is an even fight numbers wise.

So basically because your guys are all demoralized and don't log in, you're now the 'underdog'? That's really not so much underdog as "have already lost and are just waiting for those last few turns to play out as the inevitable happens."

[underkill]

Not numerically. Napkin math:

... , BricK (691), ...

you can take brick out of that list now. The active members have either camping HED-GP, left for somewhere else, or are flying around doing their own thing. With the goon reset and the alliance 1/3 of what it was there is little chance you'd see a brick in a NC fleet now.

Personally I have already gotten bored of camping HED so I spent a bit of last night watching PL kill NC stealth bombers with a Titan while watching TV. Oh, and reading kugu of course.

[Aralyn]

Not numerically. Napkin math:

DRF:
xDeath - 1072
Solar - 1143
Red - 2025
White Noise - 1378
Raiden - 1654
PL - 1639
NCdot - 1279
Ev0ke - 906
Merciless - 674
IRC - 1977
Total: 13747

NC:
MM - 4114
Razor - 2472
Goons - 6484
TEST - 4869
Majesta - 1858
RAGE - 1125
WIdot - 2743
MH - 3263
Total: 26928

I don't think I need to continue, but I really could: WTF (845), UFA (3554), TNT (1581), Stella (716), FA (1738), FCON (1688), LAWN (973), Gypsy (997), Wayfarer (496), SpaceMonkey's (888), OWN (514), BricK (691), etc. That's 41609 so far, if anyone's keeping count.

I think it still counts as underdogs.

If your going to include every NC guest (which you should), then you should include all DRF renters too. The obvious counter-arguement to that being that the DRF renters aren't "combatants", but neither are a good chunk of NC players; just the DRF better define combat alliances and non-combat ones (and I don't see United Pod Services, Ultima Ratio, or Intergalactic Export Group in your count just to start with, and those three have definitly been in fighting from the start).

As I posted in a seriously OCD moment in the last thread...

Just in case there was any doubt whether I was completely insane (and mostly because i would bet you two didn't think i was mad enough to do it);

DRF - 35,895 (30%)
NC - 31,695 (27%)
DC - 17,775 (15%) (if totalled with NC - 49,470 (42%))
-A-/Stain/LR/Nulli/Fail/et al - 21,704 (18%)
Evoke/NC./Ewoks/etc - 5,273 (4.5%)
CVA/Huns/Chribba/Every bugger else with sov somewhere - 5,792

Total - 118, 134

Now I'm going for a drink

Sure, the DRF is still the lesser number, but not by as huge a margin as some would portay.

(Apologies to all the people who hate numbers discussions, just didn't want to let those skewed numbers fly. Ultimatly, we all know it has no reflection on how many really x-up)

[CAPTAIN THUNK]

Pretty sure Grim is actually in Sniggwaffe hoping to get in PL one day (he won't)

e: also adding to the numbers debate, you've forgotten to include all the southern alliances tearing through RUS undefended space and opening multiple fronts

[tgr]

toons

[Centra]

When I start to lose in Risk, I cash in all my cards and put all my armies in one country for one massive attack; leaving a string of countries with just one army.

If you are going to lose at least take someone out with you. Maybe it's the Asian in me...

Pretty sure Grim is actually in Sniggwaffe hoping to get in PL one day (he won't)

He will, given the current game of one-upmanship in bad recruiting.

[CAPTAIN THUNK]

When I start to lose in Risk

NC don't play 'Risk'

[Some Market Dude]

Fuck "umad?" posts, gd numbers discussions should be infractable. They're the fucking worst

[Xorn]

Not numerically. Napkin math:

Fairly bad and meaningless listing. The first thing that hits me is the russians have renter carebear alliances that segregate their numbers from the main alliance, while the NC shelters carebears directly in alliance.

[Barry Zuckerkorn]

NC don't play 'Risk'

I think RAGE Alliance played the Oregon Trail, however much like their experience in EVE, [spoiler=RAGE ALLIANCE][/spoiler]

[Bring Stabity]

NC don't play 'Risk'

axis and allies

[Dwergi]

If your going to include every NC guest (which you should), then you should include all DRF renters too.

Apologies, I wasn't entirely sure of who was renting and should be counted. I mean, some of the people I left off the main NC list I did because they weren't major forces - UFA have paper numbers but don't fleet up in NC ops, Gypsy Band do their own thing 99% of the time, BricK is in HED. The ones I listed are regularly in NC fleets, though.

If Ultima and UPS are involved, they should be on the list, sure. My knowledge of Russian bloc politics is less detailed than my knowledge of the NC.

[Arkady Sadik]

Some corporations kick inactives after one week, some after one month, some after a year, some do not kick them at all. There is no general reason to prefer any of those options. Some work better for you depending on the corp atmosphere and layout.

Some corporations recruit pilots who are not fully specialized combat pilots. Some do not. The percentage of pilots that you recruit who do not (regularly) join combat ops depends, again, on the type of corporation you run. There is no general reason to prefer some over the rest (though extremes are usually bad).

Because of those two factors, comparing paper numbers of alliances is pretty much meaningless. All you can take out of it is a ROUGH idea of the importance of an alliance for one side, and a very ROUGH idea of general strength, but those are all-capital "ROUGH"s, and it's almost impossible to base any sensible argument on that unless the difference is by an order of magnitude (and even then it's very debatable).

Finally, when a war looks grim, participation plummets. When a war goes well, participation skyrockets. This is completely independent of paper numbers. If you really, really have to argue with numbers, go for "you have 40k in the coalition and only get 100 in fleet, your pilots sure lack morale!" (Add a "lol" if you must, but I'd recommend against) Trying to pose yourself as the underdog fighting an overpowering enemy because of paper numbers makes you look like the underdog in the battle of wits at best.

[Dwergi]

Fuck "umad?" posts, gd numbers discussions should be infractable. They're the fucking worst

umad?

[Comrade Comrade]

Apologies, I wasn't entirely sure of who was renting and should be counted. I mean, some of the people I left off the main NC list I did because they weren't major forces - UFA have paper numbers but don't fleet up in NC ops, Gypsy Band do their own thing 99% of the time, BricK is in HED. The ones I listed are regularly in NC fleets, though.

If Ultima and UPS are involved, they should be on the list, sure. My knowledge of Russian bloc politics is less detailed than my knowledge of the NC.

Honestly I wouldn't count all the renters. If they're involved in the fighting sure, if they're purely a rental alliance I'd skip em. I'd also probably skip UFA even though they sorta help.

edit: Not as a "numbers" standpoint but just as a fact that the NC allowed these alliances into their giant coalition for scenarios such as this, or buffer, or something defense related instead of just purely renting. So whether they're doing the job or not they should still count towards the giant NC bloat that are *supposed* to be doing something instead of people (like UFA, and the Russian renters) that are there purely to pull isk out of.

[Aralyn]

If Ultima and UPS are involved, they should be on the list, sure. My knowledge of Russian bloc politics is less detailed than my knowledge of the NC.

My knowledge is pretty rickety; with the three I quoted I'm just going off people I've seen on my lossmails :P

Would be intresting to find out 'real' numbers of whose participating (as horrific a task that might be), but I can already see some people training gunsights on us from the sidelines.

[Dwergi]

Would be intresting to find out 'real' numbers of whose participating (as horrific a task that might be), but I can already see some people training gunsights on us from the sidelines.

Awaiting an infraction as we speak.

[tgr]

I've an idea: stop counting, you miserable faggots.

[CAPTAIN THUNK]

Give up the numbers discussion already. No-one really cares and with NCs current state noone would expect them to have good fleet numbers anymore.

It's 2 blobs colliding which may or may not be slightly bigger is irrelevent

[Zagdul]

I mean, I could link you some battle reports, but you're pretty much raging away anyway. Most of our fleets have been Abaddons and Guardians taking on Maelstroms and Drakes and we've engaged with some very even odds 2 jumps out of your staging systems (UMI/IMK/H-W). The NC blob hadn't been spotted for weeks before yesterday - by which I refer, of course, to putting 1000+ in a system. Triv0keDOT can just about fill up a fleet at the best of times so...

I'm truly not raging. I'm laughing at the irony.

Link battle reports of what? Where you jumped into a system in the north with NC A-Team or Goons and won while being out numbed cause you're elite PVP?

go nuts...


K/D ratio amirtite?

[Comrade Comrade]

I've an idea: stop counting, you miserable faggots.

That statement is incredibly ironic given your avatar :P

K/D ratio amirtite?

And Isk war, you have to run a fine balance.

[Phreeze]

Numbers mean nothing.

Morale, leadership, and supercapital kills win wars.