To be honest, Brooks, I actually don't have a problem with early term abortions. There is a point where the lump of splitting cells does become a living being (in the human sense) but I'm perfectly OK with first term abortion as I don't believe life (in the sense of having a soul and conscious mind) is in effect at conception.
Now, that being said I am personally pro life and would never try to influence a girl to get an abortion. I just wouldn't vote in favor of an outright ban.
A two week fetus won't survive out of the womb, a 7 month fetus possibly will. Still I don't think anyone yet has said they agree with aborting fetus over 7 months (think its 24 weeks over here but there are some hoops, they tried to get it down to 20 weeks but it gote voted out in 2008). It seems that the pro choice are asking for a reasonable time frame to make make an informed decision on health/ability,viabilty of being able to look after the child for what ever reason, where as the pro life seem to want to make a default statement of no abortion/for any reason, which in this day and age seems a little backward to me.Originally Posted by Brooks Puuntai
We have the technology to be able help people determine if their child (to the best of our ability) will be healthy (as in not life changing disease), if people also don't think they have the ability to look after the child because of the time in their lifes/situation etc etc then they should be able to make the choice, it's something we have to live with but you don't, so your choice should never affect my choice if you see what I mean. Surely choice is a good thing.
http://veracitystew.com/2012/08/21/i...-what-rape-is/
OK at this stage they're surely doing this shit on purpose, right? It's some kind of elaborate "gotcha" troll?
wasn't there an e-mail sent around saying "DON'T TALK ABOUT RAPE FOR FUCKS SAKE YOU ALL SOUND LIKE IDIOTS!!!!!!!"
They don't seem to want to help themselves do they and the republicans will all get tarred with the same brush, as all labour mp's or tories do over here when one of them says something retarded unless they get the boot.
Fetus is the stage approx 9-10 weeks after fertilization. So a 2 week old fetus is 3 months into the pregnancy, 7 month fetus is a 9-10 month pregnancy. What's a difference between one at 3 months and one at 9 months? An actual mind, a working nervous system capable of even feeling pain, viability to name a few.
I've noticed that there's a pretty big disconnect between the general consensus of kugu and what's actually happening. It seems enough people have said it in this thread that people are taking it as fact.
Really? Because it sounds like you're pro-choice.
I've noticed that there's a pretty big disconnect between the general consensus of kugu and what's actually happening. It seems enough people have said it in this thread that people are taking it as fact.
Thats not a distraction you sweet simple fuck thats my actual answer.
I am as a political matter. I can usually keep my political and personal feelings separate while considering a particular issue. As I said, I'd advise a woman with an accidental pregnancy on more than one course of action, abortion being the last. I'm less sympathetic for those rare ones that go late term and are elective.
I can see a middle ground where they should be left legal but with restrictions on certain late procedures. We do that with other acknowledged rights already. Does anyone have a problem with someone being charged for yelling fire (falsely) in a crowd? A partisan without any reason might consider that a violation of their rights but it's nothing more than providing a reasonable restriction to ensure the safety of other people with rights.
I disagree with madp0k that it's the pro choice side looking for reasonable outcomes in the law. The partisans on both sides are retards who would break if the bent.
Explain your answer, then. It's ambiguous that I wasn't the only one who went "huh?!?"
Oh noes, you called me a name. Why so personal bro?
This is why pro life republicans are actually retarded, as this is already the case. People like you acting like women 9 months pregnant can walk into a clinic and no questions ask they stick a fucking shop vac in their pussy and suck out the works. None of this happens anywhere but republican fantasy land.
Really, pro life people want to make rape and incest victims bring a child fathered in that manner to term and you think pro choice people aren't looking for reasonable outcomes? They GOT their reasonable outcome, its bible thumping fruit bats that want to change that outcome.
What part of "A womans Uterus isn't a mans business" is foggy here? Exactly what part of my answer don't you understand? You want my beliefs spelled out in concrete writing that you can personally try and pick apart only, the only belief I have in the matter is incomprehensible to you because it doesn't involve pushing my personal agenda onto another persons body? I literally laid out exactly my answer in easy words but because it wasn't invasive enough for you, you read things that I neither said nor meant and then came up with some dumb shit at the end saying "IF YOU SUPPORT ABORTION YOU SUPPORT 9TH MONTH ABORTION".
My answer is what my answer is, if I dont have one that suits you then maybe its you thats the problem, you asked a question and were given an answer. I believe if you want more say in what happens in a vagina, you should get one, and likewise, if women wanted more say in what goes on in a dick, they should get one. Thats pretty much it bro. Theres not a lot of mystery or double meaning there, the only people talking about late term abortions are you crazy pro life keep the baby no matter what freaks of nature who are unable to just mind your own fucking business.
Right now: You can choose, you have your own choice to keep a baby or not keep a baby.
What you want: Your right to choose removed.
This is another Republican canard -- calling planned parenthood "free contraception," as if all they do is hand out diaphragms and condoms, free with each abortion.
That's just not the way it works, so it's time to stop phrasing it like that. If you've ever set foot in an actual Planned Parenthood office you'd probably be amazed at how effective and helpful they are. Don't want billions of welfare babies? Support Planned Parenthood.
Also:
This is just one of those many times when *some* Republicans actually talk openly about what they believe, but when you say it out loud it sounds batshit crazy. There's a good portion of their base that thinks the only thing Akin did wrong was say these things out loud. Which, really, is even more fucked up than anything he actually said.
I'm glad he spilled out his beliefs and made it part of a national dialog, because if this kind of backwards, scientifically-impossible, ignorant shit is steering our government, I sure as fuck want it out in the open and being talked about.
I've pretty much outlined what I think in very plain language that I believe even you can read. What I bolded is quite far from what I stated or what I believe should be law.
Your answer is and was ambiguous because you at least seemed to be saying it might be OK to vote on the issue but that only women would have entry to that poll.
So, as I read your last post, you don't see a middle ground. No room whatsoever for compromise. If that's the case, then banning late term ELECTIVE abortions is something you do not support. Whether they happen or not is beside the point (they have in very small numbers). You can stomach no middle ground whatsoever.
I'm not saying you WANT to see 7 month abortions but you certainly won't put a restriction on it, which is why I say you support it.
As for the republican fantasy land: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_te...n_of_pregnancy
Since there seems to be some difficulty in exact age determination, the number after 20 weeks appears to be 1.4 percent.
Of those abortions, almost a quarter say their inability to make up their minds was part of the reason for a late abortion. 8% said it was for a reason I mentioned earlier. babydaddy didn't want to get trap married. 71% said they didn't know they were pregnant or that far along (I personally think over half these women were full of shit; I've known women who didn't show for a long time but they were an extreme minority).
So yeah, it does happen and yes it is sometimes elective.
Read the post I was responding to. I was specifically replaying to Malcanis' claim:
he'd support the party that wants to keep free contraception in health plans, have sex education in schools and doesn't think that abstinence is the only acceptable form of contraception. :derp:
I never called PP free contraception.
It's interesting that you can read the minds of the republicans who were repulsed by Aikens claims. If that's the case, then I guess all liberals are secret communists? That's paranoid and dumb.
Ok well you're part of a party going out of its way to restrict black voters from voting so they can try to win the election, and I'm not saying you want to put black folks back in chains, but since you're not speaking out against it, you obviously are a racist.
Do you see how fucking stupid it is to say somebody supports something that they haven't supported at all in any way shape or form? Stop reading shit into shit and just take the answer as given for fuck sake.
Hey you're not out protesting leather jacket making companies so you support clubbing baby seals.
Hey you're not out saving the Congo so you obviously support the rebels who cut the tits off women.
What fucking mongoloid retard fuck even comes up with this kind of shit?
Also even the wiki article thinks you harping on about 7 month abortions is retarded. The latest talked about in that article is 27 weeks.Some sources define an abortion after 16 weeks as "late"
Here, let me show you exactly how fucking stupid and out of touch with reality you and every other republican is:
As of 1998, among the 152 most populous countries, 54 either banned abortion entirely or permitted it only to save the life of the pregnant woman
And more specifically about your own country:
That seems pretty fucking well regulated and it looks to me like as of a few years ago the only way to have one of your late term abortions is if the mothers life is in danger, kind of like everybody already said.The United States Supreme Court decisions on abortion, including Roe v. Wade, allow states to impose more restrictions on post-viability abortions than during the earlier stages of pregnancy.
As of April 2007, 36 states had bans on late-term abortions that were not facially unconstitutional (i.e. banning all abortions) or enjoined by court order.[18] In addition, the Supreme Court in the case of Gonzales v. Carhart ruled that Congress may ban certain late-term abortion techniques, "both previability and postviability".
The Supreme Court has held that bans must include exceptions for threats to the woman's life, physical health, and mental health, but four states allow late-term abortions only when the woman's life is at risk; four allow them when the woman's life or physical health is at risk, but use a definition of health that pro-choice organizations believe is impermissibly narrow.[18] Assuming that one of these state bans is constitutionally flawed, then that does not necessarily mean that the entire ban would be struck down: "invalidating the statute entirely is not always necessary or justified, for lower courts may be able to render narrower declaratory and injunctive relief."[19]
Also, 13 states prohibit abortion after a certain number of weeks' gestation (usually 24 weeks).[18] The U.S. Supreme Court held in Webster v. Reproductive Health Services that a statute may create "a presumption of viability" after a certain number of weeks, in which case the physician must be given an opportunity to rebut the presumption by performing tests.[20] Therefore, those 13 states must provide that opportunity. Because this provision is not explicitly written into these 13 laws, as it was in the Missouri law examined in Webster, pro-choice organizations believe that such a state law is unconstitutional, but only "to the extent that it prohibits pre-viability abortions".[21]
Ten states require a second physician to approve.[18] The U.S. Supreme Court struck down a requirement of "confirmation by two other physicians" (rather than one other physician) because "acquiescence by co-practitioners has no rational connection with a patient's needs and unduly infringes on the physician's right to practice".[22] Pro-choice organizations such as the Guttmacher Institute therefore interpret some of these state laws to be unconstitutional, based on these and other Supreme Court rulings, at least to the extent that these state laws require approval of a second or third physician.[18]
Nine states have laws that require a second physician to be present during late-term abortion procedures in order to treat a fetus if born alive.[18] The Court has held that a doctor's right to practice is not infringed by requiring a second physician to be present at abortions performed after viability in order to assist in saving the life of the fetus.[2
You ask me what regulations on it I'd support, and if you want a more specific answer, I'd say the regulations are already in place, if you bible thumping cocksuckers would just leave well enough alone everything would be fine, but you're not actually happy with regulations or a womans right to choose, you want to implement your own moral views on other people and damn the truth in the process.
Republicans aren't actually interested in the truth.
Do they make leather jackets from seal skins? I thought that was about fur. If they do, hell yeah I'm down with a good leather jacket.
You really hate the association I placed on you, don't you? You could easily have said you support a reasonable restriction on late term abortions but that would probably force your levels of rage so high you'd have an embolism.
You're right, Grath,. I was completely in error in saying you held an extreme position. I was clearly incorrect in that and I retract everything I've said in reference to your obviously mainstream viewpoints. You may well be the most socially well adjusted internet dude I've ever met and it pains me that I have hurt your feelings. It's obviously just me projecting my uncontrolable desire to treal women like chattel and need to own humans to do my laundry for me. I wish I could be half as reasonable as you.
So what you're saying is you're ready to admit the entire republican party has lost its fucking mind, the abortion debate is retarded shit you're all making up and its perfectly regulated as is. Oh and you're unable to stop interjecting your own thoughts and feelings into other peoples statements.
EDIT: I mean at the end of the day thats what we've discovered, that you are a republican, and like all republicans are some kind of right wing nut job who ignores actual facts and just bleats out the company line while screaming about 2000 year old dinosaurs and what Jesus would do if he got raped.
Why of course you're right Grath. In fact, you give me far too much credit. I'm retard incarnate and I believe jesus RODE dinosaurs while unmaking abortions years after the fact. I'm too retarded to actually be able to think for myself. Actually, I'm a bot that was designed to emulate a moderate while secretly social engineering liberals to repent and join the people of real faith. I know I can't possibly abase myself enough to make a proper apology to your obvious intellectual superiority so I will just silently cry in a corner while ruminating on my abject failure as a pseudo human.
... and this is why congress gets nothing done!
That's not always a bad thing. I think they generally do too much.
Is this officially the longest tennis game on Kugu & if so what's the score?
Pretty sure I just lost, I got nothing to compete with jesus riding dinosaurs undoing abortions.
I've lost track, but both sides have obviously scored points -- there's no Love.
No, I think that belongs to Czech Lion vs. the World over the NC or something.
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
How can you say that after I ceded my every point to you? It's like you thought I wasn't being sincere or something.
Whether you agree with it and whether the US government actually has the right to do it are two very different things. I mean, sell one of your kidneys. See how far your "disagreement" gets you if/when LEOs find out about it.
If the "men" in question are sensible, they would react sensibly, but if they're fucking neolithic ogres, then yeah, they might get upset. If there was a huge US market for male genitalia I would support female representatives regulating it. If we were like seahorses and carried babies ourselves, I would support female representatives who wanted to regulate our abortions (if the regulations were sensible). Most people (who aren't sexist fucks) don't give half a shit about their rep's gender — they only care if their views jibe.
FYI they dont find out and it happens without the consent of my overbearing government now, so ....
Republicans who were "repulsed" by Akin's claims are in the wrong party because the only thing he did was bluntly articulate the official Republican position: no abortions, end of story.
http://thinkprogress.org/election/20...odern-history/
The GOP is distancing itself from Akin's biology fail (women's body shutting down), not his moral fail (women should bear their rapist child).
The only person I've heard say otherwise is Romney stating that under his administration abortion would be allowed in case of rape or danger to the life of the mother. I find little comfort in that given Romney's record of staying committed to a stance longer than a month. Then you take the 1043793 attempts by the House to strip rights from women, add to that Ryan's position of no abortion/no exception and the party affirming the same in their platform and my confidence is essentially zero that a Romney Administration would have any respect for rights of the born vs the unborn.
I've noticed that there's a pretty big disconnect between the general consensus of kugu and what's actually happening. It seems enough people have said it in this thread that people are taking it as fact.
tbh I don't even know what your point is as this juncture. I was initially just telling you that, no, the government does have the "right" to tell people what to do with their bodies. The only way that'll change is via the courts or a critical mass of representatives.
You use the word "right" in a strange way — it seems like you mean "ability" more than "right". I mean, sure, you have the ability to sell a kidney, and you may also believe you have the "right" if your conception of "rights" is supragovernmental (mine isn't), but in any case, the United States government will still punish you if they find out about your kidney-hawking! Ditto engaging in murder, creation/selling of regulated substances, jaywalking, theft, public drunkenness or nudity, speeding, littering, child-fiddling, hunting or carrying a regulated weapon without a license, or whatever other activity our government has some law about.
I'm really just trying to get you to be more consistent because I care about this topic and clarity on the issue helps our side of the argument (that, and you seem reasonable). Your views seem contradictory. On the one hand, you think current abortion regulations are more-or-less okay (and I'd agree with you there) but on the other hand you seem to be suggesting that the government (or at least "men in general") shouldn't be telling women what to with their bodies.
You're all "no men should regulate womb-activity" whilst supporting current laws which explicitly tell ladies what to do with their wombs.
Fuck, I hate it when I agree with Maureen Dowd:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/22/op...UsBwWbN7jwFC5g
She even used my "superpower" bit.
Dr. Blumenthal is alarmed that Akin is a member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology.“
What is very disturbing to me is that people like Mr. Akin who have postulated this secret mechanism for avoiding pregnancy have developed their own make-believe world of science based on entirely self-serving beliefs of convenience or just ignorance,” he said. “I don’t think we want these people to be responsible for the lives of others.”
http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.htmlMany anti-choice women are convinced that their need for abortion is unique -- not like those "other" women -- even though they have abortions for the same sorts of reasons. Anti-choice women often expect special treatment from clinic staff. Some demand an abortion immediately, wanting to skip important preliminaries such as taking a history or waiting for blood test results. Frequently, anti-abortion women will refuse counseling (such women are generally turned away or referred to an outside counselor because counseling at clinics is mandatory). Some women insist on sneaking in the back door and hiding in a room away from other patients. Others refuse to sit in the waiting room with women they call "sluts" and "trash." Or if they do, they get angry when other patients in the waiting room talk or laugh, because it proves to them that women get abortions casually, for "convenience".
I'm pretty certain I've linked that earlier but I'm often reminded of it whenever there's a discussion about who should be enjoying which rights and when. "I deserve a break cause I'm the victim of circumstance and I'm basically a good person. You made poor choices."
All this debate and there's no statement in the Bible that life even begins at conception. It's actually an Aquinean piece of Catholic dogma in the 10th century ported over from Aristotle. Of course, also according to Aristotle, calculators are sentient because they add sums. It's a bit sad that republicans don't even know the source of their most cherished shame-centric beliefs and folklore.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...threatened-by/
God must be upset with the GOP. Either that or they planned their convention in Florida during Hurricane season.
But probably God
I've noticed that there's a pretty big disconnect between the general consensus of kugu and what's actually happening. It seems enough people have said it in this thread that people are taking it as fact.
Well if I were them, I certainly wouldn't quote from a series of books which has it's main character order subjects to run women through with the sword to ensure none would be born of that tribe. Dashing babies amongst the rocks comes to mind as well.
I've noticed that there's a pretty big disconnect between the general consensus of kugu and what's actually happening. It seems enough people have said it in this thread that people are taking it as fact.
"SOCIALIST OBAMA SUMMONS HURRICANE USING MUSLIM BLACK MAGIC"
Be thankful no-one's based a religion on a shitty series of Sci-fi books like Battlefield Ear - wait shit
Mine is, what makes them so much more knowledgeable and wise than me that they should dictate that kind of thing? I mean they prove time and again that they're no smarter than a monkey so why should I pay attention to what they "order" me to do?
You feel free to follow your government like a sheep, I'll keep doing what I want until a government comes along worth following.
Having lived there in my high school years, I know that there's no reason to evac because your tropical storm reaches the first magical number and hits cat 1. I deal with headwinds of that speed on my bike.
If the storm was a cat three I might be more willing to agree with him. Canceling for a cat 1 would be him following his politics (and he'd piss off all of Tampa in doing it). I seriously doubt it will be cancelled.
Should be some rare good surfing waves, though. FL, esp the gulf is so boring without a good storm.
That rings so true hehe. Thick as brick religious chicks keep on getting more abortions then anybody. The refusal of using contraceptives and the shame of raising a bastard will do that.
All dwarves are bastards in their party's eyes.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/23/us/tex...html?hpt=hp_t1An elected county judge in Texas is warning that the nation could descend into civil war if President Barack Obama is re-elected, and is calling for a trained, well-equipped force to battle the United Nations troops he says Obama would bring in.
If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
Fear the KKM
Warning or threatening? God I hate these bullshit stories. Nutjob in the sticks. Fantastic, let's spend two news cycles on this.
Anyway, if Romney gets elected and calls in the Cosmic Cavalry from the Planet Melmac or Kolob or whatever it is I vow to lead the counter-attack. That's just the kind of take charge personality I am.
Yeah, it's a county judge. I'd be more interested if it was some district judge or the governor but anyone with a dozen friends can be 'elected' to county positions.
I've noticed that there's a pretty big disconnect between the general consensus of kugu and what's actually happening. It seems enough people have said it in this thread that people are taking it as fact.
You don't get it.
Obama *is* Xenu.
Does this mean we all get Vipers? And how would that affect the national debt? Also, if want-a-be Free Masons (mormons) bring in extra support from beyond the stars, does this mean he's changing his stand on illegal aliens?
[COLOR=blue]"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=green]"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." [/COLOR]
[COLOR=blue]"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=green]"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
[/COLOR]
I goddamn well hope this idea takes off:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79998.html
Less football more serious discussion, please.
It was neither. It was his opinion on the worst case scenario. Needless to say hes being called an idiot by his peers. This won't be anything special news wise, except for maybe on CNN.
[B]Join the hunt for Ransomlist! Help us find the Number One Kugu poster!
[URL="http://Join the hunt for Ransomlist! Help us find the Number One Kugu poster! http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?11270-RansomList-has-gone-AWOL"]http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?11270-RansomList-has-gone-AWOL[/URL][/B]
Or, you know, NPR could stop peddling shit. As could every other news organization.
I didn't say or imply that any rep or LEO is "more knowledgeable and wise than you". That isn't even relevant — they only have power because they've attained some position in a government institution. They could be (and as you say, many are) absolute morons. But they still have the position of power.
I'd wager the biggest reason most people don't do x_prohibited_activity (apart from simple cultural momentum, e.g. "I don't because my family doesn't") is that they judge how likely the local establishment is to find out about & punish them for it, and they weigh that against how profitable the activity is. So, plenty of people speed on highways or back roads where cops aren't thick, but many fewer people speed in heavily-patrolled construction sites. Likewise, many people cook meth in areas where they have few similarly-easy alternatives, but not nearly as many do so in upper-class bits of society.
Can't tell if troll, but fwiw I'm neither ovine nor a government apologist. I point out that the US has laws restricting organ trading (among other things) and that it routinely prosecutes such behavior, therefore I'm a sheep? Fuck, man. Y'know, only sheeple point out that water is wet!
You didn't imply that I have to do what my government says or I'll be punished in your other post? I got news for you sweet heart, millions of people don't do all the dumb shit the government says, if it wasn't for the rest of you spineless faggots just hanging your head and going "ok whatever" we might actually make some progress around here, but between the people that just do what their told, and the bible thumping fruit bats the country is in pretty dire fucking straights and shows no sign of improving.
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