No dreads are a pain in the arse to move around when dudes already have carriers etc to move. Currently our dread fleet's are in Tech moon centers pre-positioned to where they are needed.Originally Posted by Kitty Vintner
No dreads are a pain in the arse to move around when dudes already have carriers etc to move. Currently our dread fleet's are in Tech moon centers pre-positioned to where they are needed.
Remove all titan turret hardpoints and bonuses, replace with launcher hardpoints and bonuseswned:
Changing Titans role is dumb as is nerfing them over and over in hopes it changes things. Its simple Delete Titans refund the owners the mins of the ship. Delete Titan Skills , Delete Doomsday device skill refund the skillpoints to those that had it trained. In its place introduce a new capital/supercap that acts as a Jumpbridge/Gangbonus/Support platform. Let players make the choice if they want to invest Skillpoints into that path.
PROBLEM SOLVED FOREVER
PL posters always say that people should spend more time thinking about counters to titans instead of asking for them to be nerfed.
Well, I am fairly confident that thousands of players have put their minds to this particular task at one time or another since Dominion launched. We've had many alliances consider their options, including FCs that are now in PL themselves.
Despite this fact, no definitive counter to the post-Dominion Titan blob has ever emerged.
Since you are all apparently selling yours and/or quitting Eve forever, can you once and for all share those elusive secrets with the rest of us?
Post-dominion they are the highest EHP ships in the game, and they have a good chance of fighting back against everything from AB-fit T3 cruisers to Dreads.
Is that a big change? I sure think so. Pre-Dominion titans were indeed great at killing sub-caps, but dread fleets were generally only tickled by AoE DDs.
That's a lot of minerals to suddenly pump into the game bro.
Tell the CSM to advise CCP about this wish. Or just tell CCP yourselves.
Delete titans only refund SP. Former titan owners can bury their face in their personal tech moons and cry the pain away. Unless you're in CFC in which case you don't get shit. This rewards people who used them before they losed them without breaking the economy.
Hello Drone region nerf this is the counter balance to the immediate vacuum that nerf creates. Its like its the perfect time or something to do this you know?
I already know what I would do with the majority of my titan mins and it wont be selling them.
Oh gee a new endgame ship type that could be built what will I do with all these minerals I suddenly have???
Not really. Any sort of sudden flood of that many minerals would be pretty catastrophic.
Its not that they can't hit them at all, its that WHY, when the dread so desperately needs buffs to make it more attractive so people feel more comfortable using them to counter titans, why do we need to change them at all.
Dreads are not a problem in any sense of the word, its titans, why would any change to make titans weaker need to have anything to do with dreads?
You sure do seem to have a manual that says what every ship was intended for, perhaps you could post it here so we can read it to.
As far as i know Dreads are anti structure AND anti capital platforms, they always have been.
You're reaching really hard on this one tgr and not really getting anywhere, you've spent the past 2 pages imposing your personal beliefs as actual game design, you've bought corporate propaganda like it was stocks and bonds, the whole while ignoring every bit of factual evidence.
Markets always correct themselves isn't that what all the economist are always cramming down our throats on the news?
What factual evidence has there been that I've ignored about how CCP has acted the last 2 years with regards to how titans and supercarriers have been designed?
Somebody tell me if he's fucking stupid or trolling, I can't tell anymore.
I'm pretty sure titans' current role as subcap-blappers dovetails perfectly with CCP intending them to be an anti-capital platform.
You read the words that CCP, of all companies, puts in print instead of the actions they take in game.
If they're so intent on Titans not raping sub caps, why is it so hard for them to fix?
I mean its a pretty fucking simple question man.
Removing ability to DD subcaps? Removing drones?
Or are you saying drones were there to help in shooting structures or capitals?
:18 months: of space barbie, followed by crucible fixing some minor aspects like subcap ship balancing, now they're on to capitals/supercaps.
The main problem is that they're sharing the guns with dreads, and they're trying to balance fucking dreads over with fucking titans over wrt subcaps, and I'm not sure if they've thought of just making titan guns XXL or something. But I'm not taking that as a "yes, please, use titans to rape subcaps with impunity", because that's obviously not what CCP wants. It's literally written in every devblog I've googled forth about titans, and it's evident in literally every change they've made to supercarriers AND titans since the post-AOE DD era began.
It seems like you're evading the questions I actually asked: in what practical sense have dreads been "fucked in the ass"? Is the new XL tracking is good enough for Titans, why isn't it good enough for Dreads?
There are any number of changes CCP could make that would instantly remove the threat to subcaps from titans.
Removing my ability to launch 5 drones wasn't one of them. Removing my ability to kill one guy every 10 minutes wasn't one of them.
Removing my ability to kill one every 5.8 seconds with my guns would be a good start, but even with this coming change they couldn't even get that part right, AND they fucked with dreads in the process.
Because people don't spend 40 billion on their dread fits?
theres fighters that can hit subcaps and fighterbombers that cant
theres dreads that can hit subcaps and seige modules that cant
theres titans that can hit subcaps and oh wait lols
I'm sure some wormhole pubbie somewhere does
Hi stupid, fancy meeting you here.
Does it bother you to know that everything you said there was wrong? (fighterbombers still do fairly impressive DPS to bs and Dreads can hit sub caps in siege in the right conditions)
Wormhole guys are the ones being fucked the hardest actually, since they still make fairly heavy use of dreads both in and out of siege.
So you're taking the fact that they haven't fucked with the guns yet (but are probably doing that in the next titan iteration) as "yes, this platform is supposed to shoot subcaps", when everything else points to CCP wanting it to be a capital/structure beast?
It can't possibly be that they haven't thought it was as big of a problem until you drug your titan nuts across their face a few times, and then went "oh dear, that just won't do at all" and are now scrambling madly for ideas on how to this, and probably will flub the first iteration?
So, you mean, the entire time that people have been bitching about titans just sailed right on by, the CSM minutes where people bitch about titans just sailed on by, and until we dropped a titan fleet on their event, where they sat dead fucking still 80km away from the titan, that they were somehow clueless that Titans were a problem, and that somehow, now that they found out, SIX FUCKING MONTHS AGO, that they're still having delay issues addressing this obviously mountainous problem with 0.0 fleet warfare.
Scrambling madly to fix something for six months stops being scrambling madly, especially when after six months the solution that they come up with is utter shit and doesn't do a damn thing to address the problem.
This is not fucking rocket science, people weren't being raped by titans and their 5 drones. They weren't losing fleets to supercaps drones either, you were all told this when the winter is coming shit started, none of you have ever seemed to grasp that it was the titans raping your fleets, and it was their guns doing the work. Great, DD's took out a single ship, guns kill about 10 per minute, so over the course of one dead guy from one DD, 100 people die to titan guns.
Forest fucking gump could have come up with a solution to this problem in the time that CCP have been mulling it over.
Dreads in seige aren't affected. What are the numbers for dreads out of seige? Are Sleeper BS harder to hit than the player ships which Titans can still hit?
In other words, you are taking the intentions specified in all the devblogs, and the direction all changes have had, totally ignoring that and focusing squarely on the fact that CCP haven't, say, changed all titan guns to XXL guns that just can't hit subcaps even if they stood still, or just removed the possibility to target subcaps in any way, shape or form, as a "yes, titans are supposed to be a subcap weapon"?
I don't know its almost like I answered this.
If I wrote 1000 words and gave 10 speeches about never kicking TGR in the nuts, and yet once a day kicked you in the nuts, which would you believe?
You said something about "40 bill fits", but you didn't give any actual numbers, so although it's "almost" like you answered this, in point of fact, you didn't.
See, now you're ignoring the fact that CCP have made actual changes, and not just typed out words. And there's coherency between what they've written, and the changes they've made. And apparently to some extent the changes they'll continue to make.
I mean It's almost like I already told you that I'm dumb and ignorant and therefore need things spelling out for me in quantified detail.
Almost.
I think we've seen a few 20+ bill carriers in wormholes, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few similarly fitted dreads lying about.
Nobody is denying they've made changes.
Its just that the changes are laughable when the solutions available and the stated goal is significantly easier than all the dumb shit combined: Just take away the fucking guns and gun bonuses completely.
Ohterwise nothing you do short of completely altering the way guns work in EVE will stop titans from hitting sub caps.
Mouth meet Moneyhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default...78&#post956978
Dear CSM & CCP;
Hello I fly a Titan class vessel in a corporation with many Titan Class vessel's in a Alliance with the most Titan class vessels. My alliance uses Titans more than anyother organization in game. I am advocating the Deletion of all Ttitan Class vessels :FULL STOP:. I am also advocating the deletion of all Titan specific skills from the database ( Racial Titan skill , Doomsday device Operation) :FULL STOP: I am also advocating the removal of all Titan BPO/BPC's and Titan specific component BPO/BPC as well as any and all Doomsday Device BPOS/BPC's :FULL STOP:.
In compensation to the effected pilots I am advocating the return of the minerals for the build of the Titan and its Doomsday Device all equipped modules and equipment within the Titan to be moved to JITA 4-4 so effected pilots can easily decide what to do with the assets at that point. Reimburse all skillpoints from the deleted Titan specific skills as has been done in the past with other skill deletions.Make this change at the exact same time compounds are removed from Drone Region NPC's. This will offset the vacuum left from that change and soften the potential flood of minerals to market from Titan deletion with both changes counter-balancing each other ( perhaps not perfectly).
After the deletion or at the time of deletion ( If CCP can make it happen "time constraints" ) Introduce a new capital or supercapital platform. This supercapital platform would have specific skills required to pilot it and specific BPO's to produce it . This new platform would have no offensive capability only defensive. Its role would be a support/logistic capital/supercap. It would do things such as create Jumpbridges , Provide Gang bonuses , Have a large corporate hanger and Ship maintnence array to support its fleet.
My arguments for this are pretty simple. Changing Titans to do this job is silly as not that many would be required to achieve having enough to support the role. Currently there are more titans in game that what would be needed to outfit all nullsec/lowsec groups with this important role. Furthermore a very large portion of Titan pilots did not train for over a year or spend billions upon billions acquiring a hull or further billions upon billions acquiring modules to outfit a Titan that has been deemed since inception to be a offensive roled hull to have it suddenly changed to a non offensive hull.
The Supercarrier will retain the role as the dominant force in Supercapital warfare specializing in laying waste to capital class vessels and sovereignty structures. This is also a stealth buff for Dreadnaughts as they will be used in greater frequency to shoot POS & Sov Structures in the abscense of Titans.I make the assertion with the complete removal of Titans and a addition of Support/Role Supercapital we will see a more dynamic player experience. With more specific roles for players to fill instead of Titans dominating the battlefield of all types.
Sincerely,
Paik
AKA Manfred Sideous
( would have posted with Manny but he is banned from telling screegs to go fuck himself over censoring K.com)
What I'm driving at here is what is the big role that Dreadnaughts play which this tracking nerf will render useless? So far as farming W-space anoms goes, yeah well too fucking bad because EVE ships should never be balanced around PvE. So what PvP role is it in which dreads are getting there asses fucked? Presumably there is a considerable PvP use of unsieged dreads to shoot at comparitively small/fast targets of which I am unaware. What is it? In big cap fights and structure shoots, dreads are presumably sieged anway, so what's the other use? Docking games?
Enlighten me. I've already accepted I'm dumb, so you don't need to make that point. Just tell me.
My eyes.
[05:28:32] Damienwhat Solette > friend said, if only they didn't have those 2 falcons there, i said they have 3, and he said that just says they don't want to do anything fair, just want to be dicks about it like not normal dicks but big black huge cocks
I never said useless, what I said was why fuck with dreads at all, in what way did dreads need any kind of change at all?
And if you're one of the lowsec groups that use Dreads, or one of the wormhole guys who fight in unsieged dreads, then yes, you've effectively been fucked in the ass by this patch.
Let's assume they've removed guns and gun bonuses from the titan hulls in their entirety. What would you use them for?
25k dps dread is what eve needs.
So basically, PvEers?
bridge on top of your cuntface
Tracking Change does change fuck all for WH Sites. You have subcaps webbing/painting the NPC BS and they pop like candy.
Just like Maelstroms still will after the Patch.
Not sure why anyone would fight in an unsieged Dread, might just as well bring a BS then.
The only way to balance EVE would be to make every ship have exactly the same stats. Imagine, the greatest Rifterdome ever known! It would be paradise
Someone propose it to CCP
For the number of titans that exist in EVE, there is no role.
They'll need to be removed entirely, but while CCP wants to figure out what to do with them removing the guns and weapon bonuses will serve to meet their stated goal of not having them kill sub caps.
Literally NOTHING else will work. If you leave them guns, people will get shot, if you nerf them hard enough to make them miss, you kill the dread because of the way they're approaching the nerf.
The role CCP is trying to define for the titan, Titan pilots do not want, thats not ever what the ship has been about and its not why any of them ever bought the ship. You don't cater to a part of your player base thats not going to keep the titan for what you intend it for anyway.
Neuter it completely, those that are going to dump that account will dump it no matter what role they assign in next anyway, as they only bought them to fight with.
So get it over and done with.
Yea, cause BS stand up to the volley of 200 maelstroms the same as dreads do right?
No, but i guess putting words in my mouth is a sporting event for you today.
Regarding the bolded sentence: what? From the CCP post:
A sieged dread's tracking right now is:
(base_xl_turret_tracking * mods_skills_etc) * 0.5
Their proposed change is:
(base_xl_turret_tracking * 0.5) * mods_skills_etc
which is the same thing. Are you saying that it isn't?
Whatever they'd be used for, they'd no longer be worth 60bil. I think the first step is to accept that Titans will have to be reimbursed for everybody and transformed into cheaper vessels without a combat role. They'd still bridge and give bonuses but there would be no reason to use them en masse.
It's a sort of extreme solution, but I don't see another way of fixing it.
You didn't read the part in which Manny said the 'Fatcats' were meant to be UNSIEGED. This nerf negatively affects unsieged Dreads. So yeah, it's a nerf.Regarding the bolded sentence: what? From the CCP post:
A sieged dread's tracking right now is:
(base_xl_turret_tracking * mods_skills_etc) * 0.5
Their proposed change is:
(base_xl_turret_tracking * 0.5) * mods_skills_etc
which is the same thing. Are you saying that it isn't?
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