Aren't tech moons going to get a nerf sometime in the future? This would seem to be a bigger deal to the smaller alliances (anything less then the size of the CFC) and those would do not hold or have very little sov (PL), than any titan tracking nerf.
Plastering titans with other bits of titans you've destroyed like some kind of scavenger mad max post apocalyptic sex toy would be better.Originally Posted by pinoyzzz
Lorren let me explain something to you:
Take notice of the hitpoints. You see? You see all 5mil HP's? Thats what it takes to blap you see how fragile that 100 billion isk ship is to be able to blap? There in lies the whole flaw to the argument Titans are overpowered. They are paper thin in blap mode and depending on refitting mid fight is a fools dream. Now address that.
Are you convienently overlooking the fact that armor titans can fit faction tracking computers without gimping their tank or is that not worth noting in your opinion?
There's nothing worse than having a good idea for a post not being good enough to pull it off :negative:
Nobody in OH is online at 13:00 eve. Nor do we care enough to do CTAs(hint: we don't hold sov for a reason) for what equates to be alarm clock ops for most everyone at 13:00 eve time.
Spreading total moon income out across far more moons is another key element, along risk/reward balancing, farms and fields, sov capture and maintenance mechanics, and a revision of supercaps online. They're all pieces of the puzzle that need to be addressed.
I dont like your position and vision of eve where increasing titan blobs decide over the victory or defeat, I dont like a supercapital blob rolling around just for the sole purpose of trololol like it is now, I do not like the idea of requiring a titan for achieving something in this game either!!
The idea of titans as new BS is bizarre for me and I think its not good for the game and average player anyways who join eve and getting faced a 2 year skillplan and multiple thousand euro worth of GTC for a required imbalanced ship class to be relevant in this game at all!
Large group of people should win is all right for me, maybe one day times will return when real battles voer territory become reality again than just spending xxx billion ISK for PL, lean back and smug over idiots trying to achieve something in a "regular" way.
FU SUPERCAPS! A year ago I would never have thought about what I'm sayin' today, I hated the NC and all it incorporated and I hated the goons but as I see the current state of what eve turned into nowadays simply makes me despair, I lost a significant part of motivation to play it at all recently, I've got a plenty of SP and multiple accounts and enough money for supercaps I could just buy whenever I like, however I simply keep resisting the idea of joining such a blob because I dont think its healthy for the game as whole, so maybe a further titan nerf will fix this somehow.
Wide areas of 0.0 owned by such ~elitist~ alliances are completely dead, all they do is building titans, sucking moongoo for horrendous amounts of ISK out of it and thats all. In goon areas there is life and something to gank, you can roam over there and have fun, this is something I like more than empty dead regions occupied by moonmining titanbuilders.
Like this one? http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12203172
7 million hp yes but... You're missing the point that your remote reps can maintain your health indefinite in a blob. Supers are relatively balanced in small numbers. Where they become stupid is when you start getting 30+
I fly three titans.. and have blapped many sub caps. If you're honestly defending your ability to kill sub caps with impunity than something is wrong with you. If any one singular item/ship gives you a huge boost over your opponent it doesn't matter how much it costs eventually there will still massive blobs of them. CCP failed in this vision and now they have to correct it. Tracking nerf seems like the easiest way to go about it. So many dudes here doom and gloom bout titans future. I don't think it'll effect much except for a few small percentage of dudes that lived off titans ability to track sub caps. Pro tip: Don't take caps out without support.
So what you are saying is that CCP has ignored null space for awhile which has caused numerous flaws to show up. These flaws have been left in place for so long that any attempt to mitigate these flaws is going to get someone mad.
not using dmg mods/tracking enhancers in low seriously reduce titans ability to blap effective. tho its more like with tracking enhancers you can hit stuff have some transvertial, at range, and have say 30-40% chance hitting it, now with tank fit its more down to 10-20% to accually hit it, people sitting compliterly still or mwding stright at you at 100km ofc still get hit, but so would they if you was sitting in a dread. just my 5 cent.
Everyone belive firing titans guns is like rape rape rape, but accually its more like: look up whos dumb and not moving, fire, look up hows in optimial range, fire and maybe hit and then then just fire 10 shot on the duders that have a clue and hope 1 hit.
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"God created the world in seven days, in a smaller, but no less impressive gesture, I destroyed HTA in 5"
Grath
Mr Blue / Twisted girl /Stripperella - SNIGG - PL
Moreover 5m HP is hardly paper thin. It's like this alloy is stronger that that alloy or bronze vs reinforced steel or some such bad comparison. I don't know enough about metal and shit to make this comparison effective but you get the idea.
a well tanked carrier got around 1.5mill ehp, and you can alpha that with 300 maelstroms aprox. Now without making this a discussion about number games, CFC can no doubt field maelstroms beyonds that. 600 maelstroms? should be able to 2-3 volly a titan fitted like that soon.
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"God created the world in seven days, in a smaller, but no less impressive gesture, I destroyed HTA in 5"
Grath
Mr Blue / Twisted girl /Stripperella - SNIGG - PL
If you honestly think that Titans are the reason why people form coalitions you are either deluded or retarded, you're not new. People do it because its still the single best way to keep your little space empires afloat, and always has been. It minimizes the chance that this time it will be your drake that explodes when you take those small doses of risk you enjoy. And that's not something that a game mechanic is just going to change.
Ultimately, right or wrong, that is what the argument boils down to: Whatever the smaller force uses to defeat the larger one is overpowered. It was exactly the same years ago with the nano nerf. Some of us just happen to think we are better at EVE-Online: Spaceship Edition than you are (we are). Its pretty easy to keep playing the newbie card, but heh, I grew up in Syndicate in 2006 too.
Also: Titan tracking nerf shmerf. Its not even a factor, its just what people are currently crying about. Won't change a thing unless they are nerfed to the point of being entirely useless. Having a titan on your tengu mail apparantly hurts more because it indicates just how good you are at this game.
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When you're talking in terms of a fleet of whatever shooting at it, it is tiny.
This is scheduled for right after PL loses all theirs
Please tell me more of the chains that bind you, friend.
It's really not worth noting
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I actually don't mind a few super high value moons, they are good for generating fights. The problem with tech is geographic. An equal distribution over the entire universe makes a lot more sense and will make the game more fun. The current concentration is fucking retarded. It was the major problem with dyspro as well but CCP being CCP all we got is a change of address. Having more valuable regions in terms of moon count is fine, but they should be on opposite sides of the universe.
[IMG]https://www.pandemic-legion.com/forums/image.php?u=1218&type=sigpic&dateline=1226360240[/IMG]
I'm not really sure what else pilots with high SP and infinite isk should be flying instead of titans. That's pretty much the only available content...
Don't nerf tracking remove ECM invulnerability instead. Ya I said it
I would guess that CCP would take the avenue of whatever yields them the most subscriptions.
Perhaps titans won't shoot at your subcap fleet if they have more pressing issues to deal with, lets just say your friendly neighborhood superfleet just so happened to jump in at the same time your subcaps did.
It's a crazy idea I know, but it just might be crazy enough to work!
Death to all supercaps means you have to lose some of your own, too.
Your name doesn't fit your posting m8
Well, this thread was going ok, but we finally hit titan balancing again. Can someone actually do something in EVE please so we can have something less stale to talk about?
Let's assume we did commit out supercaps to a fight with, say, raiden. Let's assume that somehow we won and wiped out all of raiden's supercap fleet.
What just happened to their war effort?
Do we have a thread dedicated to balancing discussion? seems like every thread hits the point where people start whining about bombers or supers or people with too many friends. when did EVE get so many babies?
Nothing I disagree with there. The distribution of moon value pretty much dictates nullsec conflict. There should always be rare high value moons that big players want to fight over, but they should never be so valuable and distributed as such that it's worth it to pack 2k pasty nerds into a system for hours on end for them. The ridiculous dyspro and tech imbalances have been a major source of blobbing. Toning down the absurd values tones down the incentive to blob for them.
you arent strictly needed an imbalanced shiptype for this, this is not "content", its gamebreaking, at least in the extent they are used now. Whats about sandbox and creating your own content and such?
What will those people who complain about lacking content right now, demand 2 years and 40m SP later when titans arend good enough anymore? Supertitans or megaultratitans? Just for satisfying those 250m SP people?
Lets talk about Technetium
The problem with moons as a source of income (regardless of distribution) is that it concentrates inordinate wealth into the hands of the group that can defend them (whether by sov 3 or superfleet). Spreading them across the universe means nothing because of cyno chains and jump clones. Gee, I'm fighting in Tenal tonight, but my Dyspro moon in Delve needs to have materials moved, or fuel (or whatever) tomorrow. No worries. Dock, Jump to Delve. Deal with tower(s). Jump back to fight again tomorrow. Moon goo should move to something like the (fucked up) PI interface where anyone can get in on the action with diminishing returns. No "ownership" with the only tower and the offensive power to back it up. Unless, of course, you stand up a combat tower near a lunar customs office, and it shoots at all the neutrals collecting their moongoo...
I would really, really love to see this happen but I don't believe that all of an alliance's supers would be destroyed in a single fight, there will probably be a trickle of supers that did not log in or could escape and you have to hope that the little bit you have left would be enough to shoot/hug pos/bridge you around during favorable tz hours or hide behind jammers until you can buy/build enough supers, or kill enough dumb supers solo (totally possible) to fight again.
Goons during the siege of VFK and the surrounding area have proven that you don't need a gigantic superfleet to fight a defensive war, which is what the war would most likely turn into after the loss of an entire superfleet. And the tech coalition has enough subcap-fleet members to make it interesting, if they stick together.
It's harder for a coalition like Raiden because they purchase most(?) of their supers off of eve-o and prices would spike to hell. If you have a large, distributed supercap-building contingent in your coalition you can rebuild from a partial-welp cheaper.
But to answer your question, everyone who lost a super would quit the game from the shame of having lost a super, they would probably failcascade and eve would become boring.
Yep not having a couple dudes who only log on for super ops would totally ruin the game.
I love how OH roll, say as it is, props.
based of experince, your lucky if you have 50% supercap participation, then again Im from PL, and we got our supers spread out in several tz while raiden/goons are more 1 tz heavy so maybe they will have higher participation.I would really, really love to see this happen but I don't believe that all of an alliance's supers would be destroyed in a single fight, there will probably be a trickle of supers that did not log in or could escape and you have to hope that the little bit you have left would be enough to shoot/hug pos/bridge you around during favorable tz hours or hide behind jammers until you can buy/build enough supers, or kill enough dumb supers solo (totally possible) to fight again.
Goons during the siege of VFK and the surrounding area have proven that you don't need a gigantic superfleet to fight a defensive war, which is what the war would most likely turn into after the loss of an entire superfleet. And the tech coalition has enough subcap-fleet members to make it interesting, if they stick together.
It's harder for a coalition like Raiden because they purchase most(?) of their supers off of eve-o and prices would spike to hell. If you have a large, distributed supercap-building contingent in your coalition you can rebuild from a partial-welp cheaper.
But to answer your question, everyone who lost a super would quit the game from the shame of having lost a super, they would probably failcascade and eve would become boring.
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"God created the world in seven days, in a smaller, but no less impressive gesture, I destroyed HTA in 5"
Grath
Mr Blue / Twisted girl /Stripperella - SNIGG - PL
Hey I'm actually in an alliance that has defended moons on the other side of the universe. Its really neither easy, practical or cheap. Doing it every now and then is OK, but it's not sustainable. We're not even talking coordinated attacks, just a single annoying enemy.
We managed to defend lots of lowsec towers against GBC just with gunning alts, but that was because the portions of the GBC sent to harass our dyspro were beyond fucking terrible.
This is actually how PL got their first dyspro, by killing them with t1 posgeddons (no capfleet at the time) night after night while BoB and friends were elsewhere. If they came back to save it, we'd just reinforce it again the next night.
[IMG]https://www.pandemic-legion.com/forums/image.php?u=1218&type=sigpic&dateline=1226360240[/IMG]
Killed any shuttles at safespots lately?
Or anything else, imporant, that you would like to share with us?
Oh look a "I am good enough to join the fotm wave, but I don't because it is :bad: for the game" post.
Don't worry mate. I am pretty sure those fotm based elitist alliances out there are doing their best to keep resisting the idea of you joining them, based on your posting alone. Just in case the temptation is too strong for you, you know.
Not even 20 pages and we're back on "nerf supercaps/titans". I can always count on the spergs of Kugu to make me skip 19 pages of terrible posting.
delvegoons advocating a boost to falcons well i never
Fuck off bro a titan is a ticket into any alliance. You seen the trash they let in PL these days?
Nevermind one of the many elitepvp DOT based alliances.
Was the X-70 POS on a moon worth anything?
I know the Korasen one was a worthless staging tower, so I'm not sure what kind of self-hating supernerd would've tried to defend it at that hour unless they were expecting shiny kills.
And considering you RF'ed it with bombers (why would you do that to yourself?), it is quite surprising you brought an actual fleet to kill it.
No im not overlooking that fact because unless you have the Tracking Enhancers also fitted they wont track shit. Furthermore what wasn't shown in that screenshot is the Strong Drop Booster we all eat before we engage another 25mil each fight.
oh right I just remembered
it was sreegs
Yes, I also see the trash they leave out.
Mate
That's the only reason we (S2N) are up north and oh boy has it been fun. The tower we put up was reinforced less than 12 hours later, if I remember right. Can't wait for the timer
So cool stuff is happening in Branch right now, including jumping 3 fleets through the gate at once into enemies and warping subcap fleets off, leaving carriers behind.
I'm reminded of the saying from James Carville "It's the economy stupid." The whole reason there is giant discussion about Titans is that they are becoming increasingly easy to obtain. As it has been posted many time before (since there is never anything new in a discussion about titans) CCP never thought there would be this many in game. Along the same lines, they nor anyone else knew what was going to happen once you get 15, 30, or 50 in a system, beyond the fact that they were large and maybe one should bounce out away from the others. This is a stupid game mechanic by the way. So now that there are many titans in game, with more and more being produced the role of the titan needs to change. The lot of you focus on titan tracking. CCP has waited to long to make the needed adjustments and now making changes isnt just going to affect those characters with titans, but how entire alliances play the game. Now CCP can't nerf titans since it will piss off to many people, but they cant continue because that will also piss people off. Hence stalemate and why this stupid discussion continues in thread after thread. I don't really think you can nerf the titan (you can but it isn't the best option). They should still be able to kill subcaps, but you need any easier way to deal with 15+ titans. Enter the dreadnought. It's main role should be killing supers. Right now risk/reward for dropping a lot of dreads on titans is not there. Dreads are still to much of an investment to throw at titans when the percentage of it working is so low. An improvement in the siege mode might increase the reward and then people might be willing to use them more. Again, you don't need to nerf titans, you just need an easier way of killing multiple titans.
TL;DR : Don't nerf titans, buff dreads
sucide dreads to get deeps on a titan is still totaly validable(atleast if you got sub capital supremcy) as soon as your arent scared of the pretty soft looses that comes with it. While Im not hating on dreads or anything, I dont see why you would need to buff them even more than they alrdy are.
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"God created the world in seven days, in a smaller, but no less impressive gesture, I destroyed HTA in 5"
Grath
Mr Blue / Twisted girl /Stripperella - SNIGG - PL
You talking about Raiden fighting the CFC without supers in Tenal?
No actually they're getting about 1000ish on average these days. Sub cap wise nobody in EVE can come close to matching those numbers unless we form our own coalition, the loosely based sack of shit we're holding right now and calling a coalition is fairly distasteful to most of us, who are really only friends because the CFC exists.
You not understanding the smaller force argument is just you not wanting to see the truth.
They can fit those, but they won't hit shit. We refer to them as "coward fits', and they act like coward fits, the chances of you actually hitting even a BS with a full tank fit on is pretty fucking slim, taking drugs can up it slightly, but until you strip your tank and fit tracking enhancers you're not going to put a serious dent into anybody who's movings day.
Read carefully: Dreads are the new BS, Titans are the new dread.
All of you, every whining cunt in this thread that wants titans done in, want the games progression to stop at battleships. Goonswarm is a 6 year old alliance this year, AAA, even older, and if you're getting held back by 50 titans its literally your own fault.
All you need to do is cram half the fucking assholes you get for a fleet into dreads. Will you lose dreads? Hell yes you'll lose dreads, but you'll also do something else you're not doing now, which is beat the titans blob.
You had FOUR FUCKING DRAKE FLEETs the other day, and you expected to do what with that exactly?
Pro tip missile are shit in TiDi, I alluded to this the first time PL brought tengus north for the first really big TiDi battle, you should have had maels, simmies, tackle, and fucking dreads. If you have newbies in rifters, sweet, now you have a plethora of on grid warp in people for your dreads.
1000 dudes in drakes, or, 400 dudes in dreads, 2 full alpha fleets, and a fuck off bomber wing/40 dictors.
Basically you're all ignoring the dread like its not there, unfortunately the battleship isn't the top of ship progression in EVE, and it certainly doesn't go BS---->Titan. You should easily after six years be able to field the largest dread fleet seen in EVE, and with that dread fleet have the power to shit all over a titan ball of even 50 titans, but you would rather just cry about unbalanced game mechanics while flying your own unbalanced game mechanic.
So, grath, at which point do most alliances/coalitions have too many titans, to the point where we need to get a ship above titans for the bitter vets to train for, and to sate their lust for blapping everything because they paid isk for it?
I think "our" biggest issue with the whole CFC supercap "whining" regarding supercaps is that you got the tools, you got brains(hopefully) and you got the isk, but you refuse to even be trying; lets form up some more Perma mwd drake fleets and maelstroms guys, because that have been working so well in the past.
Everyone with a brain know that is doomed even before you left VFK, but rather than improving and adapting, you rather go QQ titans OP, lets rally 10k pubbies behind that. and sucide another drake fleet while we are at it to "prove" titans are OP.
Its like fat people whining about beeing fat...while refusing to change diets. :P
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"God created the world in seven days, in a smaller, but no less impressive gesture, I destroyed HTA in 5"
Grath
Mr Blue / Twisted girl /Stripperella - SNIGG - PL
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