A Song of Ice and Fire: Delve Burns

[wanamingo]

if it has the mass of a black hole it is a black hole

I think you mean density.

edit: Also, Vonqueesha, I think you negrepped the wrong post, son

[Kitty Vintner]

I wonder why there are no random harbingers/scrub ships that are not tackle in Goon fleets, is there some evil penalty such as getting locked in a dark room with DBRB(who has infrared goggles so he can rape you)?

The market in y-2 has fuck all except contracts for fully fit doctrine ships.

[Vonqueesha Shenaynay]

I think you mean density.

edit: Also, Vonqueesha, I think you negrepped the wrong post, son

I'm not your son.

I did negrep the wrong post.

Your post was shit anyway.

[wanamingo]

Yes but I would appreciate more constructive criticism in my negreps so that my future posts are not quite so shit.

[Malcanis]

I have no idea how dbrb has such difficulty staying cloaked but that boy puts a dent in the buzzard market all by himself. Can you turn off auto-repeat on covops cloaks or something?

I just checked. No.

[Pripyat]

our wins at 3:2 odds over you

You almost got me there.

[syndic thrass]

Yes but I would appreciate more constructive criticism in my negreps so that my future posts are not quite so shit.

1. Stop caring about rep
2. Get more rep

It is weird how that works around here...

Also 95% of the notes people put with their negrep is shit like "p bad post" or "shitty post". Deal with it.

[syndic thrass]

I wonder why there are no random harbingers/scrub ships that are not tackle in Goon fleets, is there some evil penalty such as getting locked in a dark room with DBRB(who has infrared goggles so he can rape you)?

No, if you can't bring a doctrine ship then you are probably far to dumb/fat-fingered to actually make it to the fight. Also let me tell you what NigFleet is for....

[Doink9731]

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY REP TO POST

[Propagandas]

Since when did "it works when the alpha fleet number go above a certain number of ships" translate to "it MUST outnumber the enemy severely"?

Well it kinda does, with your current fit you have less tank, less dps and less tracking then lets say a hellcat fleet.
You do have a 20km range advantage but that rarely gets used v0v
I am not saying your alpha doctrines is bad, im just saying there are better ones.


One reason why alpha fleet has been a bit over hyped is because when GSF gets a full 200 man alpha and 50 support fleet they rarely face another 200 man bs + 50 support fleet. They usually face 2 if not 3 diffrent fleets as is the case in delve atm and was the case of the north.

[Vee]

Whoa, lot of catching up to do in this thread!

Jesus Christ you're stupid. Vee losing a couple of engagements has nothing to do with superior FCs or something, but with the fact that the Alpha-concept only really works when it outnumbers the enemy severely (this isn't suppossed to be bawling about blobs, it's simply how the concept works).
We know it, Vee does too or he wouldn't have disengaged from a couple of fights where he faced equal numbers, the only people who don't know it are your FCs.

I'm not sure if this is a troll, but it's not really true. Alphafleet scales better than anything, but it's fine in equal numbers against anything from ~100-150 (total numbers) in fleet onwards. The only two fights I disengaged with alphafleet was 1) because of desynchs which had to be cleared and 2) because a bombing run put us in half shields, while we were on grid with 255 vs your 200 + 150 MM/Br1ck. Both exits were messy as shit because of fuckups/ccp (pick one, we'll never agree) and put our numbers too low to re-engage later. If you genuinely think it had anything to do with 'not outnumbering you enough', then I'm sorry for you.

Unfortunately it's unlikely we'll ever have a perfectly clean equal numbers fight, but hey, it'd be fun.

When theres no need to put on the silk gloves but just fire it away things sometimes get very how should I say it.. nasty. Of course this slashing with words does not help the delve resistance against the goon hordes, but atleast in the process some rotten apples might get out of the basket. Goons obviously love this and milk every drop out of it. Just a tiny sample of this retardation that sometimes is present in those halls of military leadership is recent RAWR boycot of BR1CK lead fleets. Whats up with that guys?

There have been some examples of this method working brilliantly, see: sometime in delve when the coalition started running alliance only fleets and numbers practically doubled, or the H-W defence where MM alone fielded a huge amount of dudes. However, in their current state it's a desperate maneuver which degraded them to a ~wulfpax~ roaming/stealthbomber alliance that can't field more then 50 dudes. :iiam:

And Goons.. Hmm.. I still wonder a bit why all this but I can always guess. This whole freeport thing ain´t the main reason, we all know it, but could the simple reason of theres nothing better to do be too obvious. There might be combination of motives in play and not the least of them just to mess with RAWR and BR1CK. One could be to have good fights and provide content and conflict for this terrible game we all still play. I have no doubt in my mind that clusterfuck couldn´t just steamroll Delve if they really wanted. They have the largest playerbase and capable leadership plus fleet doctrine thats very hard to counter, but that show of power would stop the conflict right there and then. Why do that when theres lots of fun fights to be had and possibility of dramatic events like this Nut Custard episode. You gotta be very careful not to brake your new toy. Those numbers you presented with almost two full fleets and rumoured capital support on top is pushing the fading will to fight on these brave delvians. Maybe thats just what you want, but I doubt that.

As much as it'd be fun to fuel rumors and confusion PL-style, it's really quite simple: when we go into a state of 'peace', I either take a break or deploy somewhere. See: creating and deploying bomberwaffe to the east, the cobalt edge 'invasion', freeport delve. It's fun to theme a deployment around something though, in this case the 'freeport' and 'freeing the cruor'. The latter is because I'd have hoped to own NOL around this time, do a massive slosh/victory op with the thing and die in a terrible fire. Not until we arrived in Y-2 did I realize Ev0ke owns the damn station, meaning downtime timers and proper defence.

At the moment we have the possibility to create fights pretty much whenever, all it takes is some sbu's and a quick structure shot. Also, nobody is using (super)caps in fights, so it's a fun place to be.

Seriously I'd like to know where all this hate towards tounsi is coming from as well. I've flown with him for quite a while now and never had any issues with him at all - quite the contrary tbh. Honestly I understand perfectly if goons wouldn't want to fly under him (he's very big on triple-checking his intel and takes his CTA's very seriously), but I have yet to see any decent argument on why hes actually bad at fcing.

Well, there are quite a few occasions where he made horrible mistakes, but at the end of the day he's the only one consistantly running the CTA's from your end. Everyone who's ever fc'd knows it's a lot of stress and effort, so he gets my props.


On another note, muninns are fucking shit against artycanes. Nulli played it out well yesterday, hope I can fight you with a more balanced fleet next time

[Makia Velli]

Lol at getting negrep for posting too much :words: I must have strangely altered perception of what is the function of this forum.

Must correct my evil ways and try to keep it simple in the future.

[Atticus]

On another note, muninns are fucking shit against artycanes. Nulli played it out well yesterday, hope I can fight you with a more balanced fleet next time

We can teach you m8s

[Mfume]

Itt shocking news: FCs in the same alliance/coalition as the poster are bold space heros and excellent gentlemen, FCs in the alliances the poster is currently fighting are raging spurgelords who couldn't lead their way out of a paper bag.

i can assure you that ive been all about "fuck tounsi" since I was in mage and consistently tricked into joining fleets led by him.

but with the fact that the Alpha-concept only really works when it outnumbers the enemy severely (this isn't suppossed to be bawling about blobs, it's simply how the concept works).

it requires a certain baseline of numbers, but you dont have to outnumber dudes, just enough to alpha what you want + support + some degree of redundancy for all the vonqs in your fleet who die retarded.

[Securitas]

i can assure you that ive been all about "fuck tounsi" since I was in mage and consistently tricked into joining fleets led by him.

Hahahahahaha you're ex RAGE ahahahahaha

[Grim]

Hahahahahaha you're ex RAGE ahahahahaha

I dont think we need to get into a who was in the worst alliance contest sec

[Dr Cheeto]

Is it time for the hourly dickwaving contest already?

[Securitas]

I dont think we need to get into a who was in the worst alliance contest sec

My history is (relatively) clean so sure let's get into it.

[Mfume]

Hahahahahaha you're ex RAGE ahahahahaha

~ethereal dawn~

[Securitas]

~ethereal dawn~(alliance leader)

Yeah you can be in pretty much any alliance without shame if you're the boss.

[Atropos]

Yeah you can be in pretty much any alliance without shame if you're the boss.

That is untrue! A damnable lie!

[indet]

~ethereal dawn~

Yeah you can be in pretty much any alliance without shame if you're the boss.

You were actually in charge of that lot? In other news, despite the hopeful wishes of some DCF folks I suspect brick will survive nut scamming 10 ppl. And be clear, that was his intent from the start. I wonder if he actually even bought a JF/JF toon.

[Atticus]

Yeah you can be in pretty much any alliance without shame if you're the boss.

That is untrue! A damnable lie!

Lies, damned lies, and statistics!

[Kythren]

You were actually in charge of that lot? In other news, despite the hopeful wishes of some DCF folks I suspect brick will survive nut scamming 10 ppl. And be clear, that was his intent from the start. I wonder if he actually even bought a JF/JF toon.

heh, only idiots give money to those kind of beggars, guess how AnarchistUK, revered FC, beloved friend and biggest faggot ive seen so far, got away with 100b. why didn't i come up with this idea before him, after he left no one wanted to donate for my cock enlargement fund any more :/

[CDLoon]

I suspect brick will survive nut scamming 10 ppl. And be clear, that was his intent from the start. I wonder if he actually even bought a JF/JF toon.

He did originally get me to be his JF pilot, but the isk reward was too low for the required. No idea if he bought his own after.

[HeliconOne]

tl;dr

[Atropos]

I found that intellectually stimulating and a damn good read.

[Mfume]

Yeah you can be in pretty much any alliance without shame if you're the boss.

counterpoint: O.W.N.

:V

[smg77]

counterpoint: O.W.N.

:V

Well done.

[MtA]

less dps

Alphafleet. As long as you have enough to alpha the hardest nut on the opposing team, it means your opponent is playing without logistics, and that's bad.

(This is of course, excluding factors external to the doctrine, like FCs, lag, Ev0ke Cheetahs, retard members, etc.)

Or am I missing something here?

[Glomp]

Rule to live by: Never shoot Mister Vee while the fleet is idling on a gate.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=10831548

Sadly it was the only kill we got when we went back to shoot the TCU.
GFs in local.

You would have gotten bonus points if you had shot his carrier.

[Razzor]

Hahahahahaha you're ex RAGE ahahahahaha

Your in cordi

[Jed]

I wonder why there are no random harbingers/scrub ships that are not tackle in Goon fleets, is there some evil penalty such as getting locked in a dark room with DBRB(who has infrared goggles so he can rape you)?

I think that's mainly because Goons' logistics team makes it ridiculously easy to buy the correctly fit ship. You would actually have to go out of your way to buy a ship that isn't in doctrine.

[Vonqueesha Shenaynay]

i can assure you that ive been all about "fuck tounsi" since I was in mage and consistently tricked into joining fleets led by him.



it requires a certain baseline of numbers, but you dont have to outnumber dudes, just enough to alpha what you want + support + some degree of redundancy for all the vonqs in your fleet who die retarded.

it's actually a very rare occasion that I die in a fleet fight.

now ratting ships is a whole other story friends. one best shared at another time.

[syndic thrass]

Yeah you can be in pretty much any alliance without shame if you're the boss.

D3 leads an alliance...... Also I went Ethereal Dawn->Mostly Harmless->WI.

I win

[tgr]

Well it kinda does, with your current fit you have less tank, less dps and less tracking then lets say a hellcat fleet.
You do have a 20km range advantage but that rarely gets used v0v
I am not saying your alpha doctrines is bad, im just saying there are better ones.

Like what, titan fleet?

[Agathor]

must be one hell of a dog when the barking can escape the dbrb hole.

Fun fact: Dbrb has not emitted light since 1998 because of his immense mass.

[tgr]

I think that's mainly because Goons' logistics team makes it ridiculously easy to buy the correctly fit ship. You would actually have to go out of your way to buy a ship that isn't in doctrine.

I keep trying to run with an instacane, and it's a lot more work than just going "meh fuck it, I'll fly a maelstrom then".

Except when main fleet is fucking full so I have to mesh with the damn niggers, where I'd probably do more good in an instacane.

[Securitas]

D3 leads an alliance...... Also I went Ethereal Dawn->Mostly Harmless->WI.

I win

So you actually went downhill =/

Also what's cordi razz?

[RCJ]

Shitty patchwork carebear alliance begins to implode from losing a few systems despite much chestbeating about thundardomez, npc space, wulfpax, and gudfites.

Who could have foreseen this?

Huh? We lost one FC and I can assure you the majority of the alliance was happy to see him gone.

[Glomp]

Fun fact: Dbrb has not emitted light since 1998 because of his immense mass.

His posting is like an event horizon as once you have read it you can never get that wasted time back.

[fugazii]

Yes but I would appreciate more constructive criticism in my negreps so that my future posts are not quite so shit.

What you've got to realize is every post is shit. The trick to rep is attaching a 0.0 alignment to your location and just watching as the rep of a 1000 posters pour in as their circlejerk showers over you.


Smile pretty, it's an intimate process.

[tgr]

His posting is like an event horizon as once you have read it you can never get that wasted time back.

And he's far from the worst poster in goonswarm.

Be nice, lest we let slip the posters of war.

[indet]

heh, only idiots give money to those kind of beggars, guess how AnarchistUK, revered FC, beloved friend and biggest faggot ive seen so far, got away with 100b. why didn't i come up with this idea before him, after he left no one wanted to donate for my cock enlargement fund any more :/

I gave nut a billion ISK. Never expected to get it back. When I logged in Sunday and saw what was going on I started a trivia game in alliance. I'll post movie/music trivia and give ISK to winners until the billion I gave nut (and got back from him, unlike most) is gone.

It's not a lot of ISK but, it's fun and frankly, it's how it's done.

[Lucas Quaan]

Alphafleet. As long as you have enough to alpha the hardest nut on the opposing team, it means your opponent is playing without logistics, and that's bad.

(This is of course, excluding factors external to the doctrine, like FCs, lag, Ev0ke Cheetahs, retard members, etc.)

Or am I missing something here?

Yes, I think you are. While alphafleets can kill a lot of stuff when they have the numbers, they aren't very tanky and will lose ships at a steady rate themselves. At a certain point this means you no longer have the alpha to kill anything and if you didn't start out with more than your enemy they can now turn the tide.

The reason we don't see this more, or maybe we do since I haven't looked at your BRs lately, is because you can start with 200 Maelstroms and lag currently plays a huge role in large fleet engagements. When (if) time dilation deploys and works as advertised we will probably see this more often.

[Some Market Dude]

Huh? We lost one FC and I can assure you the majority of the alliance was happy to see him gone.

and a corp

[Elenor Pewpew]

You need more than a few Huginns too to make alphafleet work.

[RCJ]

and a corp

As much as I liked DAB they weren't exactly the largest most active corp and as far as I know the only reason they left is because of a misunderstanding between their CEO and FC Xanion and some other FCs. From what I saw from their members a lot of them weren't happy at all about leaving but w/e. It was sad to see them go but I don't think the alliance member base is upset about it, more slightly confused.

[MtA]

Yes, I think you are. While alphafleets can kill a lot of stuff when they have the numbers, they aren't very tanky and will lose ships at a steady rate themselves. At a certain point this means you no longer have the alpha to kill anything and if you didn't start out with more than your enemy they can now turn the tide.

The reason we don't see this more, or maybe we do since I haven't looked at your BRs lately, is because you can start with 200 Maelstroms and lag currently plays a huge role in large fleet engagements. When (if) time dilation deploys and works as advertised we will probably see this more often.

I'm in no way suggesting that maelstrom alpha fleet is the be all, end all when it comes to doctrines, it would be boring if true.

Fact is, equal circumstances, equal FCs, equal mistakes and equal numbers will never happen, and any of these can tip the balance for or against any doctrine.

In an ideal, theoretical world though, I believe alpha fleet has an enormous advantage over dps-based fleets, for the simple fact that range (that dps fleets will usually have to cover) and the ability to ignore logistics will tip the balance for alpha fleet beyond recovery in the first couple of minutes. Alpha fleet doesn't need to tank much, just slow the bleeding of ships enough that our logistics catch up with your damage, while still having enough to pop your <whatever>.

But again, this theoretical world doesn't exist, and so each time things get a push from the way the dice rolls, which is just fine.

[Razzor]

Also what's cordi razz?

good question