Agree. Adjusting the acceleration values as per the mass of the ship would go a long way.Originally Posted by Dinique
I would be ok with this as long as it's just a step in an over-all change.
Agree. Adjusting the acceleration values as per the mass of the ship would go a long way.
I would be ok with this as long as it's just a step in an over-all change.
A 'Constellation' chat replacing Local would be pretty cool if it had all of Local's functionality. I mean, if bots want to safe up any time somebody is in the same fucking constellation, they're not going to get a lot of ratting done. And at least that way I'd know when it's a good idea to be D-scanning (instead of spamming the button every ten seconds for hours on end).
Yep, whole heartedly behind the constellation chat only and no-local
It is a shitty solution, but a million times better than the current system
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Id say its definitely better than local as far as scouting and Intel gathering since roaming gangs would know if there were other gangs nearby and would then need a prober to find them in each system.
As far as ratters go It will probably make it easier for them to escape but I don't think that would be the goal of this change if CCP actually made it.
How? I mean, if a neutral enters my constellation, they could be five or six jumps away and not even moving toward my system. Or they could be in system with me. If I hit d-scan and see nothing, then do I safe up? Or keep ratting but running d-scan?
E: Everybody knows you safe up when a neutral enters local, it's not as obvious when a neutral enters your constellation.
You keep running d-scan, obviously. What, did you think nullsec was supposed to be safe? Damn carebears.
you could be right, Im thinking more along the lines of carrier ratters who currently rely on intel channels to gtfo before they get tackled because they don't align until hostiles are reported, but smaller ships could definetely get away with running d-scan
Hello Sirs,
It is my pleasure to clue you in to the fact that directional scan does not show cloaked ships
Regards, Opti
On the flip side, it makes it even harder to move a fleet around if all I need to do is drop a newbie alt in each constellation.
how would you know they are in that system? unless the system is less than 14au in radius you need to probe every system regularly and that requires more than one person scanning. Even if you did run alts d-scanning the majority of a system you cant tell if they are piling into a system, warping, landing on a gate or setting up at their optimal range ready to own you when you jump your fleet into the system because you thought you could run d-scan on a 1 day old alt and have all the info you need.
What the hell are you talking about and what is your point?
My point is that with constellation you still need to put in some effort to get good intel (unlike current local), and that you cant achieve the same intel as having 14 day alts in every system d-scanning as oppose to people with prober alts running d-scan and probing the enemy fleet, this makes for a much more engaging prelude to a fight.
Which would be the entire point of the change. Just a little but more fuzz surrounding the current binary decision between warping when someone enters local or not. A little more work for a scout trying to find someone or a fleet etc. The gang that just appeared in constellation might be in front of you or behind you. You'd really like to run away with your 10 roaming dudes from the 20 roaming dudes that just showed up, but your scout first needs to make sure you're not running towards them.
For a little less detail (you know someone is in one of these 5 systems as opposed to definitely in this specific system) you also get a larger area covered by a single omniscient intel source. Its not a bad trade off to me that might just shake things up a bit. Depending on the structure of the constellation, and where you are in it, you might be able to make some educated guesses about where those people just showed up. But you won't know until your cheetah bitch finds them.
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Why limit it to just constellations, why not make it whole regions?
Because then it doesn't give you information that is specific enough to be of any use, and would have more or less the same effect as removing local altogether.
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That's sorta the point though, right? Null shouldn't be so obvious and predictable.
I thought one of the things about local was that it was being used as an intel tool, and that some people didn't want it to be?
why are you blathering about that at me?
All I want is for it to be a little less perfect.
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Oh God regional channels in hi-sec?
A glorious idea. Make it so.
I suppose it would be an effective way to persuade players to move out of hi-sec...
Don't regional and constellation channels already exist? They just don't open automatically, and only show people who talk in them (no one). It would be pretty easy to make it show who was in it, but not make it a fixed channel like local is now.
If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
Fear the KKM
Should be a deployable SOV module for systems owners to anchor on gates that "tracks" gate traffic giving you a local count. Something easy enough for a roving band of marauders to reinforce if the locals aren't up for a fight. Not expensive, not hard to reinforce/rep.
I've always thought moon mining should be this way too. I mean, if the POS shields allow moon goo to traverse it why hasn't PL invented the MOON GOO gun that shoots giant ass Tech Mortars to instagib POS?
The point is for it to replace local or what's the point?
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You could make 'local intel systems' a target for small gangs to shoot at, and if it gets destroyed then "the lights go out" for the next 30 minutes
TGR I think what dinique is saying is that they could swap from local to constellation chat without much extra effort while making regular local like wormhole local. The carebears would get a little nerf and the hunters a little buff, while at the same time the carebears would get a little buff and the hunters would get a little nerf (little more fog for the first and a little broader area of sight in the second).
If you moved that to a regional scale you'd need to add in new scanner mechanics and everything else to get it to function properly without blinding the sheep and turning lose the wolves.
Local to constellation chat really wouldn't require much work at all to make functional.
Tell me more about how this is a "little nerf" and a "little buff" for carebears, and "a little buff" and a "little nerf" for hunters.
I started spelling it out, then I realised that if you aren't bright enough to understand it in concept, having someone explain it for you won't help
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Perhaps if you start the post with sigh, and throw five or ten f.ex in there the tumbler will click for him.
You won't know who's in local without scanning: buff to hunters, nerf to prey.
You will know who even enters your constellation: buff to prey, nerf to hunters.
K(awaii)ugu(u)tsumen
Exactly, the prey gets a wider field of view, the hunter gets some up close fog to work with.
Which basically means they have to behave as if there's a hostile in warp to them at all times, just because someone thought it'd be a hilarious idea to put one hostile in a constellation.
I love your idea of "a small nerf" and "a small buff" for the carebear side.
I think the fundamental hangup here is that you are seeing 'lazy/paranoid PvEers in nullsec will be easier to gank' as a bad thing, whereas the PL types are seeing it as the main benefit. Not going pretend I know which is more right because a) who the fuck am I and b) I don't live in nullsec, but it should be mentioned that this is gearing towards a very circular argument, which makes us sideliners sad.
Are you fucking retarded? The hunter also has no idea of really knowing where their prey is - they can leave system and the hunter wouldn't know.
Shit, leave a few unpiloted ravens inside pos shields and you have just countered a hunter.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Apparently neither of you got that I'm supportive of a Constellation alternative to Local chat, I know I made it sound dire for carebears but that's the point.
Asking people to pay attention and make intelligent decisions while playing is asking too much I suppose.
If you kill enough of them they stop fighting - Gen. Curtis Lemay
Fear the KKM
Nah, but if this change is to make it more dangerous for carebears, then they might as well just remove local altogether, as there'll always be at least one hostile in any given constellation, which means it's just a waste of server-side resources to maintain the list no-one'll bother to use.
They'll use it if local doesn't work.
Your argument is flawed though because ANYTHING you do will make it less safe for people in 0.0 because we're currently at the "You were fucking retarded if you got caught" levels of safety.
I mean, I keep seeing Zagdul say he wants more people to come out to 0.0, and I don't know if you fucking people get it or not but short of removing any non alliance members ability to use the gates in your system, nobody else is really coming out. Theres not going to be some big gasp where people from high sec come flooding out, there is no game out here they want to play.
So if the metric is "anything that makes 0.0 less safe is off the table" then theres absolutely no point in discussing anything with you because most people agree its too safe, you know too much, without any real effort, you can't get that far so the discussion is wasted on you.
The idea of the discussion is to add more danger to the people who live almost completely free of danger in the part of the game thats supposed to be the most dangerous. You instantly baw about the level of danger any time anybody brings up the slightest change.
A mod should probably just lock the thread, its obvious theres no actual way to talk to the "0.0 should be safe so dumb people that don't actually exist might want to come out" crowd.
Constellation will still be useful, since you'll know that there's x neutral/red fuckers in your general vicinity. At least, I'd care about such things. Maybe I don't know if they're in the next system or the one I just left, but I'll certainly make sure my belt is buckled and my cock is where it belongs.
This.
I'm betting the ones who talk about how everyone would move back to empire have already done so and are :: they lost an expensive ratter once.
Read the average local chat. Most of highsec permanent residents can't even deal with the level of safety that is already given them. They don't want anyone to be able to engage them outside an arena style of PVP.
That's just as useful as knowing "there's a murderer somewhere in the county, but you don't know where", which I'd take as "so useless as to be a complete waste of resources, so remove it and be done with it", because there'll be x neuts/reds in any constellation.
GBTW
So a Constellation is Country, is a Region a Continent? and local is a City?
I don't understand how making it more risky/painful to rat in 0.0 but not touching the reward is somehow going to incentivize people to come rat in 0.0. Especially if even with the "it's so safe in 0.0 if you get caught you're stupid" you still have people saying "FUCK THAT I'M NEVER LEAVING HIGHSEC."
[URL="http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12609601"][ 2012.03.02 08:32:51 ] Kurth Ren > whereas love squad avoids any engagement that is not a onesided curbstomp[/URL]
[URL="http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=11888507"][ 2012.03.02 08:34:08 ] Kurth Ren > but you are literally arguing with the inventor of broski, you aren't going to win a debate about broski history with me[/URL]
[URL="http://unidan.net/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=1876"][ 2012.03.02 08:40:48 ] Kurth Ren > it's filled with bitter faggots who would rather be slaves to finns and run at the first sign of a fight then go on ops[/URL]
Maybe it's because those of us who don't mind a nerf already think that you can't incentivize enough (short of concord invading null) to get most of the players to accept any risk.
As for rewards, null is better ISK than when I first moved out here. That's not to say I can't make better isk by doing incursions but it's hardly as bad as it was two years ago. In places where the truesec is lower, the rewards are damned good. Could there be a rebalancing? Maybe. I just don't think that it will make these people come out to null in droves.
Go back to what? WOW? For saying "get rid of local"?
Yes, WoW. No, because you started off with the "It's the remove local time of year" You continued on pointing out how the roamers are shortsighted and they would destroy null populations because the people living there wopuld go back to grinding missions for no benefit other than the accumulation of wealth. You and Zagdul disagree with the ones (including my carebear ass) who would like a SLIGHT local nerf. Fine we disagree.
But your last comment of getting rid of local sounded (to me at least) a petulant tantrum by someone who thinks if he can't have it his way then local should be gone entirely. *stomp feet*
That's why I said GBTW. Or you could kill yourself IRL. At the very least, buy some fucking vagasil and heal thyself. We survived the JB nerf and I doubt most of the ideas would have an extreme effect (any more than the effect of a lucky gank on someone's bling ratter).
If I misunderstood your comment and you have come over to the other side, then I apologize. I thought it was snark.
-create a module for some recon classes which could count the number of blues/neuts/reds in local with a cycle time of like 30 seconds (results come after the cycle, cant be used cloacked/inwarp)).
-Remove local
-raise bounties
Oh yeah, make falcons more overpowered, that'll work.
A decloacked falcon for local monitoring is hardly this big threat as the current role. Btw its quite easy to balance this via cpu, pg to be an exclusive role so you have to decide if you want a more combat or more reconaissance oriented ship. No problem here.
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