The demand for T2 Stuff is always increasing, the supply of Technetium is not. It has the "worst" supply for its relativ demand which is the part ccp failed to figure out.
The only things that could reduce the value of tech would be a decrease in demand for T2 or CCP changing the whole Moonmining system again.
So if you don't count on CCP changing it feel free to buy tech and get spacerich.
i have no idea why you guys think a regional monopoly on a bottleneck resource is 'broken'.
seriously. this isn't supposed to be some happy fair sandbox where all resources are infinite and spread evenly.
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Faife, it's the OP that was supposed to be trollbait, not the following posts.
So now i figured out why Fullerides are so bloody fucking expensive. They have (le gasp) technetium in them. And I need 10 per thermonuclear trigger unit and 10 TTU's per t2 med autocannon... fuck me.
The sandbox is now a welfare housing development.Originally Posted by Faife
Its the fact that both Fullerides and Nanotransistors are used in every single t2 product whether mod or ship. Usually in decent quantities aswell.
Fullerides also use Platinum which has been rising for a while
Double
Yes it varies as to which site the ISk is sold.P
They also screwed the Pooch by making Tech a R32 which is really way more avalible than the R64 is supposed to be but x4 as expensive.
They need to make every region provide a key element to T2 stuff not a masterkey that is a money printing machine.
why?
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Because it makes a huge amount of regions more or less worthless regarding moon minerals. There should be variation between how much regions are worth, but it shouldn't be that there's a few regions geographically near eachother making trillions while there rest make very little.
That is only true if you aren't part of the NC.
~~~~GIMMIE +REP+ GIMMIE~~~~
FYP.
It's geographic balance I'm referring to, not political. Please don't try to make this into an NC whine, because it's not.
I totally agree on the not being an NC / not NC thing, I just don't have a problem with games being unfair and one region being very profitable.
It's fine if it isn't too and tech is nerfed, just most the arguments for the nerf seem to be of the "we don't have any and someone else is getting rich" type. I don't find that persuasive.
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Christ, can we please not get this discussion again because BntyHunter is shit at necroing and shit at understanding what the underlying problem is?
I was actually agreeing with you mr Insecuritas
~~~~GIMMIE +REP+ GIMMIE~~~~
v0v It just looked like you were quoting me and saying that I only had a problem with it because I wasn't in the NC.
Actually we are now benefiting from Tech, But in reality Eve has plus`s and minus`s and thats what makes it fun so when you have a region like say Provi that is completely useless its bad IMHO.
Just as in RL each area of the world has its own special brand of items worth something, I dont want it all to be rich but I do want there to be specific areas in which many regions can make ISK in many ways, IDK maybe increase WH activity in regions that dont have moons and have Trusec or something of that nature.
But it needs balance, not just 1 Material thats in 1 concentrated area should be the master key to making every T2 item.
I agree its not a valid argument being jealous about others being rich so asking for a nerf, I just want each region to be valuble in some way, and I want the means of getting its value to be the key to how popular it is, So Moons/Ratting would be the easiest to get ISK from where as others that we need to incorporate would be harder like Drones where you cant just get bounties but have to salvage haul and sell.
Eve is like a snuff film, First you get Raped, Then you get killed.
TGR enlighten me what is the underlying problem? Since you seem to know.
IMO the problem is not making more T2 Items use other things besides 1 material, it also is not diversified enough in location and also EVERY REGION IN GAME IMO needs something valuble, wether its tactical value, Moons, Ratting/Trusec, ore`s etc.
West Virginia has tons of coal and timber but not Gold and Diamonds and Oil etc, and since it doesnt companies have opportunities to go to other places to get it, so why would you want basically all the most important resources in 4-5 Regions?
Please make me understand Wise One
Eve is like a snuff film, First you get Raped, Then you get killed.
Sigh. You should go read Akita T's dissertation of what CCP's changes were going to entail. The problem has been well documented well in advance of the actual implementation. The fact that tech is overpoweringly expensive is squarely because CCP were being absolute fucktards in how they balanced the materials requirements for T2 stuff. Afaik, there were no real need for the change they did, as dyspro and neo (I think it was, idk) wasn't prohibitively expensive, nor was it limited to the northern hemisphere.
Literally everyone, since well before the actual change was implemented, have told CCP they were fucking retards. We're still telling them they're fucking retards. CCP are retards, news at 11.
tl/dr: go bitch at CCP. We already know about it.
The sad part is CCP is going to say that changing Tech was a good idea due to the current war in the north.
See Murr because we all just see you as "that razor poster".
not really I ran a 20 tower farm in j-l
then kartoon lost sov and I lost my 20b per month isk fountain just as it was really humming
the annoying part is shipping (you can hire people to do this) and fueling (which isn't hard if you restrict yourself to a single system and have a freighter)
they all do, all r8s and r16s are regional, you could have a SC owning all the caesium moons for example
the issue is only technetium is valuable
If you are using Amarr POS for reaction lines, GTFO. Caldari is the most common (cheapest in terms of towers required per line, most effort), Gallente is 2nd (usually requires +1 towers than caldari, lots less effort due to double silo bonus - which gets you a week, not 4 days as you stated). No one uses anything else who has any idea what they are doing.
I totally agree with you, so why was I flamed?
Maybe I just stated the obvious to much I guess, Sry for that, but I agree the Tech Buff was never needed IMO
Eve is like a snuff film, First you get Raped, Then you get killed.
Expanding 0.0 would be nice. Sure, why not throw in some tech too. And a new pirate faction.
It's just too damn crowded these days. I miss the quiet.
Who knows, maybe making the game bigger will grow the game. Or maybe not. Well, one can hope.
This is pretty much the opposite of what CCP wants for their game. Quiet does not get Massively articles and new subs. Also, there are still vast swaths of 0.0 that are unpopulated due in large majority to logistical issues.
With respect to ancient Rome, dignitas was regarded as the sum of the personal clout and influence that a male citizen acquired throughout his life. When weighing the dignitas of a particular individual, factors such as personal reputation, moral standing, and ethical worth had to be considered, along with the man's entitlement to respect and proper treatment.
Or due to the fact they are completely worthless. And were made even more so by recent anomaly changes.
I think it'd be a great idea to push some more high/low security pipes into the southern regions. Getting there does seem to be a much bigger hassle than getting into northern null. Also, CCP should give bounties to drones so the east would be worth fighting over, rather than just being a renter / AFK botter slum.
Did you play prior to Dominion? Even in Providence, we managed to scratch by a living with belt chains. There was more mining back then, too (actual player mining, as opposed to bots).
If the argument hasn't been beaten to death untold times already, the direct effect of the supercap buff along with some indirect changes meant that when before you could take and hold space with a dread/carrier fleet of about 100b on the field at a time, now you need a supercap-heavy fleet of at least an order of magnitude more cost. It necessitated a big boost to 0.0 income to compensate, which never really came, and what little boost it got was largely taken back for being to bot-friendly; thus, the everyday joe is less vested, and less capable, of taking and holding sov in 0.0 than it's been since the days of anchoring cans on gates.
I'm not a supercap builder but are you not able to mine the materials in any space these days for building caps / supers with the asteroid anoms? The everyday Joe isn't building supers with sanctums, is he? We're producing supers via our corp miners, AFAIK.
I don't question the fact that people are earning less per hour than before. However, it is possible to earn a living with belt rats. It's just not as easy to do with a high population (which WAS the stated intent of CCP adding anoms).
I'd say that the everyday Joe isn't building supercaps at all. His alliance is, with Tech, Neo, and renter income.
A single player makes more ratting than mining. Dual accounts makes ratting even more profitable. You need to run some 6+ accounts mining to beat out 2 accounts ratting.
I've noticed that there's a pretty big disconnect between the general consensus of kugu and what's actually happening. It seems enough people have said it in this thread that people are taking it as fact.
Regular joe renter in drone region tends to produce quite a lot of minerals, so it makes perfect sense to build a lot of those into carriers and use them as a currency of sorts for paying the rents. Or just selling them to your landlord, who then in turn refines the said regular caps and builds them into supercaps. Makes for a highly efficient ecosystem for producing hilariously large numbers of supercaps.
So maybe not building them directly, but that drone loot -> capitals -> supercaps is one efficient supply chain.
with you trolling in fleet comms, it will be sooner than later!
My point being that everyday Joe isn't getting by any worse today than he was Dominion -1. Dominion was a temporary boon to him but many people are crying that CCP took away some kind of entitlement. Joe isn't usually ratting to buy a titan or super carrier; He's lining his wallet. Today, Joe will get richer more slowly that he did a month ago. It may well be that L4 missions are a better way to make money for him than belt ratting. If he wants decent anomalies, he needs to get better space.
My point was the space is not completely worthless or nobody would have ever bothered being there before Dominion. Providence was, at one time, the absolutely worst non-drone space and had the highest population in null.
Alliances are still in possession of the tools to have much better space with regard to manufacturing. In Providence, I believe the best rocks we has were Spodumain. Anyone with sov and willing miners can have any ship minable resource they want today.
There are also other upgrades that require a bit more effort to use that can be quite profitable if you're not a retard.
The one thing CCP did with the nerf that nobody seems to have called them on is to reduce the viability of each system to support a higher density than one or two ratters. They made that a cornerstone of their platform to sell anoms to us but there's no way that many of these systems can support any real density.
Arent you mentioning but not discussing the pygmy elephant in the room?
Highsec vs' 0.0 for Joe Mc. Average. Recent changes in no way promote entry of people currently in Empire to 0.0 and effectively reduce the likelihood of that happening.
EDIT: Yeah, fav. topic/ pet peeve for me, moaning about Highsec.
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
pro-tip: people don't leave highsec to make money, they leave to avoid concord
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I for one already started grinding standing for my mission alt, with some clever LP cashing out it's not too bad. Prolly on par with sanctums I used to grind with machariel.
Also now you don't get sanctums respawning insta so it's 1 man - 1 sanctum with long smoke breaks between them. Also lots of risks, mostly blue tacklers.
tldr: Seriuosly thinking about moving all PVE activities out of 0.0
I didn't ignore it. It's irrelevant to my point. That being that null is no worse than it was before Dominion and that in many respects, worse truesec is still much improved over pre-Dominion days.
As for highsec, why moan? If you mean you don't like the fact that so many people avoid low/null because they can safely run L4's in empire, the fact of the matter is you won't be able to force them to be your targets by moving L4 missions. They'll farm L3 or quit playing. Those who decide to move ISK earning operations to highsec do so specifically to buy ships for you to shoot at. They moved their ISK ops to empire mainly because the density problem I already pointed out. There is only so much a belt can support. Even anoms were less than ideal as there were always the asstards who ignored calls to fleet and monopolized anoms in their carriers.
Here's one good thing. Once people realize there are actual rats in belts who have FULL bounties, you'll have targets again.
TL;DR
No system in eve is worse than it was pre-Dominion.
You used to be able to hold sov in a shitty system with as little as a single medium tower (or a small if you really were cheap), now you need the TCU and, realistically, an ihub, with taxes higher than your old fuel costs. And that's regardless of upgrades.
Drone regions now suddenly have this dumb isk sink when nothing in the space itself generates isk bounties, thus ensuring they can never, ever be self-sufficient and hold sov
Officer rats have been nerfed to where you can no longer blaze through space in an inty or assfrig and snipe them out of belts, now you need multiple carriers
Also no sov 4tresses and the loss of all the benefits that entailed
I'm sure the list is longer than that
"boost drone regions" doesn't really feel like a valid argument, does it? not with the amounts of isk that those regions are churning out in reality.
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Is this a battle of the list, now?
Sov is not a requirement in every system. It never has been but it is more relevant now as sov costs significantly more. Define your borders with sov and leave useless systems unclaimed.
Drone regions have ridiculous wealth. This wealth takes more effort to extract than other regions. If you have the organization skills, you can make great ISK.
Officer rats are rare enough that I haven't seen one outside NCP sov. What effect their buff (to the rats) has is limited in nature and is mostly confined to NPC sov anyway.
I'm ignorant regarding sov 4tresses. IIRC, this nerf to anoms would have had no effect in terms of these sov benefits, right?
Now my list of stuffs.
Learn to probe. There are signatures that contain hacking and salvage sites that can either be a relative waste of time or a lead to a very nice drop. Every alliance should install some of these.
Learn to probe. There's also an array that increases wormhole generation. Some wormholes can lead to fabulous wealth if you can use a D-scan.
coming soon TM. a change to the DED sites that should do a fair job of replacing ISK lost to the anom nerf. Sure it should have been released at the same time but it won't matter that much as so many of the people angry about the anoms will have difficulty figuring out how to use their... PROBES (assuming CCP doesn't put them in system with a damned beacon.
We also used to do this group mining thing to support the alliance wallet / ship replacement deal. Once every couple of weeks we would gather our hungry carebears and set them loose among the belts. Those of us who were prone to falling asleep when we heard the sound of mining would act as guards and scouts. It helped the alliance cohesion, provided a juicy target for reds, and (when successful) the alliance was able to pay some bills with the money gained.
I would boost drone regions. Not so much as a boost but change the way they operate to a bounty / drop system. The fact is there would be much more interest in taking that space if there were bounties.
i support this, cause i think "mining with missiles" was a stupid design decision.
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Death to bounties.
Sov is required to upgrade the space, so it's a inherent cost on any system that is marginally useful or strategic. That said I think a lot of junk space will be unclaimed. Probing for exploration sites is pretty limited. They're either very rare or quickly consumed because I've only ever seen a couple, and generally right after downtime. It's certainly not a reliable earner. Mining is considered worthless because you are competing with bots.
But the important thing is if you want to hold valuable space you'd better either have a super-capital fleet, have the support of someone who does or rely on no one caring enough to come take it. I'd also much rather watch space burn than invest the insane amount of time in extremely boring PvE required to rat up a super-carrier. Quite happy just ratting (or running empire L4's, probably about the same) to help with plex and ship replacement.
I am retarded and meant caldari instead of amarr. and thats every 2 and a bit days moving goo.
and with nano's you push out 9000 m3 per day. at 40k volume its a touch over 4 days you can hold.
This change has already come, and apparantly isn't a huge money maker for the masses. Am keen to know how much the entrapment array (or whatever it is that increases complex spawn rate) increases teh rate of complex's spawning. But from what i have read on teh matter it seems they are pretty random with sometimes only 1 a week appearing. And when that can get run by 2 or 3 guys in 30 minutes or so to earn 300mil then its not exactly wide scale income. If 1 spawned a day that wouldn't be too bad i guess but still not that crash hot.
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