Providence Snoozelum

[SirFur]

I'm likely passing on info to folks who are already well ahead on the subject; but WIdot has officially reset Severence today, so looks like any last possibility of them returning to Pure Blind/Cloud Ring is very definitly out, meaning greater likelihood of them coming back your way.

Hmm, that's interesting news.

Not heard anything about them coming to providence yet, but it may well be a possibility. It all depends on whether the currecnt composition of the alliance wants to NRDS - for the old vets won't be so hard, but policing the young'uns who have been pretty much used to the NBSI way of life it may well be difficult and may well result in a lot leaving -7- if they do change their ROE. They may not like that idea at all - but in terms of null sec space - there's not much elsewhere to go....unless maybe delve?

[Arkady Sadik]

First time I heard about how the bropact between CVA and UK was "broken" was when CVA took an outpost from UK because UK "failed to put up a credible defense". It apparently kept being ended for 4-5 years since then.

[Aralyn]

Bro-pacts have this strange habit of being broken several times, usually multiple times in any given week.

[Manfred Hideous]

Hmm, that's interesting news.

there's not much elsewhere to go....unless maybe delve?

I wonder if the DRF would even bother defending Insmother or Scalding if someone made a move on them these days. Aren't those mostly renter ghettos anyway?

[SirFur]

Looks like MM isn't moving to provi after all

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/corp/Exitus_Acta_Probat

The NCdot station controlling corp was actually a bid by MM to transfer a good number of stations to NCdot, likely in a bid to give them time to move their supers/assets out of the region and possibly a concurrent ceasefire. Not well-versed with what's happening up north at the moment so I don't know how old this news is and I know its a provi thread, but thought would be useful to know as it was something we discussed earlier.

Looks like much of tribute's outposts are now under NCdot's control....maybe it's nearly time that NCdot were going to completely move out of providence? Or are they going to sell off the systems in tribute to the highest bidder?

[Don Peyote]

I'd like to point out that Rico didn't rename IMK-K1 outpost "IMmaSplodeYou best SplodeYou" and that I'm mad at him

[SirFur]

Being bored...what with EvE-O down and all..., decided to look this up regarding the U'K war against CVA, YF and CF.

However their performance against everyone in the region, pirate and "civilian" alike has been pretty decent. (http://www.ushrakhan.com/edk/?a=cc_detail&ctr_id=19)

We've not been decced by U'K this time round but we have a fairly decent record against them in the past - don;t have any recent stats between us, and have been engaging in them of late assisting where we can. We may not have been decced but we live in the same area and in effect the war is aginst us to, though just not officially. Much of the fighting has been in low and null sec in any case.

[Garreck]

CVA made it quite clear that they considered the agreement finished after U'K followed the orders of -A- FCs (who took advantage of spies) while we were running joint fleets. This is not news.

This is accurate from my perspective. At the organizational level anyway. I think plenty of bittervets from either side still enjoy friendly interactions to some extent. Or at least "friendly" hostility towards each other in character etc.

[Borza]

This is accurate from my perspective. At the organizational level anyway. I think plenty of bittervets from either side still enjoy friendly interactions to some extent. Or at least "friendly" hostility towards each other in character etc.

Yeah, definitely. Though there was a lot of eye-rolling about the CVA reaction back then. You never had any problems with your own allies spying on us. But it was perhaps an 'emotional time' in EVE for some of your members.

We've not been decced by U'K this time round but we have a fairly decent record against them in the past - don;t have any recent stats between us, and have been engaging in them of late assisting where we can. We may not have been decced but we live in the same area and in effect the war is aginst us to, though just not officially. Much of the fighting has been in low and null sec in any case.

Like I said, single alliance vs coalition of alliances. We all know how killboards react to that. /shrug.
The wardecs are mainly to reduce the hits from sec status and GCC annoyances.

[Niding]

Yeah, definitely. Though there was a lot of eye-rolling about the CVA reaction back then. You never had any problems with your own allies spying on us. But it was perhaps an 'emotional time' in EVE for some of your members.

Pft. This discussion will go nowhere

But the whole CVA allies spying thing... dunno tbh, maybe some did, but it never reached CVA and defo wherent used on the battlefield. The few times we where offered info, voice comms info etc etc it where turned down. I had access to most info within CVA back then, and I turned it down myself a few times.
During the AAA/UK vs Old Provi war I remember UK came with such claims and I remember thinking "what the hell are they talking about!?! Are they just trying to justify flying in fleets where AAA used standard 0.0 warafe tactics?"
Tbh it never really bothered me at all, I just found it kinda amusing from the ROE point of view.

I could prolly ask about spesifics, but it wont really serve any purpose.

We wont ever get back to the "old days".
Personally I dont really care more about UK than I do about any other KOS entity on the KOS checker.
That said, CVAers still get a bit more "yey" about shooting at UK. But thats about it.
For a fair share of CVAers its mostly about NRDS and Deliverance Project and less about IGS style warfare.

(Im not in Garrecks camp on these things, so dont take my pov as how everyone see it)

[Team Dresch]

Ex Paxton, ME and pretty decent corp Firestar have joined CVA, it would seem.

[Phineas Freak]

indeed. there was a lot of cheering last week when gib, neddy (and the others whose names slipped my mind) showed up on comms for the first time. now all we need are a few dozen traver sina alts (did he unsubb?) to keep intel on autoupdate mode and it will feel a bit like late summer 2009.

[Ooohyoutouchmytralala]

Paxton industries next?

[UltraViolet]

indeed. there was a lot of cheering last week when gib, neddy (and the others whose names slipped my mind) showed up on comms for the first time. now all we need are a few dozen traver sina alts (did he unsubb?) to keep intel on autoupdate mode and it will feel a bit like late summer 2009.

NEDDY
christ haven't heard that name in a long ass time, how is the old asshat?

[Phineas Freak]

from my perception he is fine to exceptionally well, depending on his current workload. you may even see him on the ME vs. WN AT9 vid, sadly they did not make it/ME disbanded anyway..
but he may answer that himself as well, i think he is lurking around here.

[Manfred Hideous]

Yeah, definitely. Though there was a lot of eye-rolling about the CVA reaction back then. You never had any problems with your own allies spying on us. But it was perhaps an 'emotional time' in EVE for some of your members.

I obviously can't speak for other holders but we were most certainly not allowed to spy and we were told CVA wouldn't appreciate holders who metagamed.

[Ooohyoutouchmytralala]

I obviously can't speak for other holders but we were most certainly not allowed to spy and we were told CVA wouldn't appreciate holders who metagamed.

Aralis got the name of an allied informant in -A- once and gave the name of the spy to -A-. Yea, they take it pretty seriously.

[CCP Nozh]

My old alliance had a policy against spying too. Although, we weren't holders in provi.

[Tyrael]

Paxton industries next?

There is a 'Providence?' thread on the corp forums, but its old timey discussion and we'll stick with our alliance to da bitter end

Even in the far future I don't think most want to join CVA but it will be a nice roaming destination if we are kicked out by 250 supercaps

[Night]

I obviously can't speak for other holders but we were most certainly not allowed to spy and we were told CVA wouldn't appreciate holders who metagamed.

I always find this sort of hilarious, since there's plenty of background in the lore for not only spying on them but spying on your own people. Why doesn't CVA run the Amarrian KGB or something instead of pretending to some kind of high ideals? It would be more appropriate.

[Mira Z]

Why doesn't CVA run the Amarrian KGB or something instead of pretending to some kind of high ideals? It would be more appropriate.

Maybe they do already.

Maybe they do...

[Archimedes]

Maybe they do already.

Maybe they do...

One of the things CVA will never do is use metagaming. In case you haven't known, CVA is based on good principles that are the core of the Alliance for a long time, and part of the reason CVA remains alive and kicking, compared to other old Alliances.

[Night]

In case you haven't known, CVA is based on good principles that are the core of the Alliance for a long time, and part of the reason CVA remains alive and kicking, compared to other old Alliances.

If by good you mean "gimp them terribly", then yeah, sure.

[Manfred Hideous]

There is a 'Providence?' thread on the corp forums, but its old timey discussion and we'll stick with our alliance to da bitter end

Even in the far future I don't think most want to join CVA but it will be a nice roaming destination if we are kicked out by 250 supercaps

No idea. Maybe they're all pplaying Paladins without the benefit of reading the Paksenarion saga?

Thing is it may cause them some setbacks but what they do as a whole seems to work for them. How many other alliances would take the beatings they have and still exist?

[ptrpanda]

There is a 'Providence?' thread on the corp forums, but its old timey discussion and we'll stick with our alliance until we lose all our space

fyp

[SirFur]

I obviously can't speak for other holders but we were most certainly not allowed to spy and we were told CVA wouldn't appreciate holders who metagamed.

This is correct for APOC as well. Metagaming is not a part of APOC and our alliance is based on good principles and values.

[Don Peyote]

This is correct for APOC as well. Metagaming is not a part of APOC and our alliance is based on good principles and values.

I'd say this post stunk of a holier-than-thou attitude but that would probably be a compliment

[Mizuchi]

i cant wait for provi to be filled up with swarms of noobs in shitty t1 frigates on gates that will chase a lone vagabond off 100km and all die and then cry in local about evil pirates/terrorists

gona be good times

[Ooohyoutouchmytralala]

i cant wait for provi to be filled up with swarms of noobs in shitty t1 frigates on gates that will chase a lone vagabond off 100km and all die and then cry in local about evil pirates/terrorists

gona be good times

Oh I'm sure someone will come along and mess it up again, if only for the tears.

[Mira Z]

Oh I'm sure someone will come along and mess it up again, if only for the tears.

Why?

They can harvest more tears over time. That's one of the reasons Providence was so successful before: It generated game content for lots of people.

[Tyrael]

fyp

That would require some desire on some group's part to hold space in Fade. 4 constellations of badassery only marginally less desired than Providence

[HandofSatan [banned]]

Oh I'm sure someone will come along and mess it up again, if only for the tears.

I don't think CCP will make the mistake of making ALL SPACE THE SAME again. Hoo-rah for ghettos.

[Ooohyoutouchmytralala]

Who said they want the space? Maybe they just want to mess with the roleplayers

[Arkady Sadik]

Who said they want the space? Maybe they just want to mess with the roleplayers

They do. Best proof of that is TonyG's continued employment.

[davvol]

Aralis got the name of an allied informant in -A- once and gave the name of the spy to -A-. Yea, they take it pretty seriously.

I notice Aralis did nothing to stop Hydra disbanding U'K after he was told there was an insider willing to hit the disband button for a fee ;-)

The reality is that whilst the public face is 'no metagaming', this is ultimately governed by what are the benefits to be gained.

[Stronke]

Your propaganda will not work here. Aralis had no idea what was about to happen to UK with the Hydra incident. I'll probably also have to remind you he declined Hydra's offer to transfer all stations and sov to CVA. Only thing you could be upset about is them lowering them selfs by using the incident to try and grab some space on their own. But then I can not really blame them as at this point there was nothing left of the old CVA/UK relationship, and UK clearly demonstrated they wanted Providence back at all costs throwing every last bit of "e-honor" out the window.

[davvol]

Your propaganda will not work here. Aralis had no idea what was about to happen to UK with the Hydra incident

I spoke to Aralis in person, 20 minutes after everything kicked off, and he told me in no uncertain terms that he knew *exactly* what was going on, and had been given advance warning 1-2 days in advance ;-)

[Stronke]

Dirty lies and you know it

[Ooohyoutouchmytralala]

I spoke to Aralis in person, 20 minutes after everything kicked off, and he told me in no uncertain terms that he knew *exactly* what was going on, and had been given advance warning 1-2 days in advance ;-)

Actually he is right and wrong. Aralis knew what was going to happen, but was asked to remain quiet about it. He didn't do anything about it because its not really metagaming, its player politics inside the game. Two completly different issues. One is an out of game action, one is an action that has justifiable reasons for happening in game, as far as RP is concerned. You made someone a director you shouldn't have, and you were punished for it. Thats that.

[Forlorn Wongraven]

You made someone a director you shouldn't have, and you were punished for it. Thats that.

That is correct. The long time requested role of diplomats was introduced immediately after U'K disbanding, as Tarac was diplomat. In the aftermath Karn stepped down and unsubbed, cause he trusted him knowing Tarac for years.

[Ooohyoutouchmytralala]

That is correct. The long time requested role of diplomats was introduced immediately after U'K disbanding, as Tarac was diplomat. In the aftermath Karn stepped down and unsubbed, cause he trusted him knowing Tarac for years.

How is the old australian anyways? I've talked to him once or twice, and I genuinly liked him. Has he come back since, or is he done with eve, similiar to aralis?

[Tarac]

That is correct. The long time requested role of diplomats was introduced immediately after U'K disbanding, as Tarac was diplomat. In the aftermath Karn stepped down and unsubbed, cause he trusted him knowing Tarac for years.

Sup, and whats this about Karn knowing me for years?

EDIT: FYI i didn't disband you guys, you checked your alliance name recently?

[davvol]

He didn't do anything about it because its not really metagaming, its player politics inside the game.

Aye, I don't disagree, though my original post was in reference to CVA informing -A- that they had a spy, which is broadly comparable, hence bringing it up. In one situation, he let people know, and in the other, he didn't.

It wasn't meant as a dig in any way, just that 'metagaming' covers a pretty wide range of activities, and in the case of UK/CVA, having a spy in-game would have been classed as metagaming under the agreement we had to avoid this kind of thing.

[Dots]

One of the things CVA will never do is use metagaming. In case you haven't known, CVA is based on good principles that are the core of the Alliance for a long time, and part of the reason CVA remains alive and kicking, compared to other old Alliances.

What kind of good principles and values is CVA based upon? They shoot their reds, they want space (even if they gain it by exploiting an advantages provided by metagaming / spying - see uk disband incident). The only difference is that they do not metagame themselves ... they are willing though to use any circumstantial advantage provided by others' metagaming.

I do like CVA mainly because of their uniqueness and perseverance. Their longevity however has nothing to do with them not metagaming or having "good principles".

[Tarac]

Your propaganda will not work here. Aralis had no idea what was about to happen to UK with the Hydra incident.

Id just like to step in and say that Aralis was well informed beforehand. Sorry to bust your bubble. I was even talking to him on Genos TS.

[Ooohyoutouchmytralala]

What kind of good principles and values is CVA based upon? They shoot their reds, they want space (even if they gain it by exploiting an advantages provided by metagaming / spying - see uk disband incident). The only difference is that they do not metagame themselves ... they are willing though to use any circumstantial advantage provided by others' metagaming.

I do like CVA mainly because of their uniqueness and perseverance. Their longevity however has nothing to do with them not metagaming or having "good principles".

Once again, a bit of correct and incorrect. At its core, CVA is still an RP alliance, albeit one that RP's rarely. RP alliances typically last a LOT longer than normal alliances in eve, so I attribute CVA's longevity to that. Their refusing to metagame, and the principles they are built on, I think are part of that RP, so while not the direct reason for it, its certaintly part of it.

Also, when did CVA get an advantage from metagaming that was done? I said earlier, the hijacking of UK was NOT metagaming, that was player politics driven by an in game function (albeit a broken one), had the account been hacked, and the alliance disbanded (what happened to CVA late 2009), then CVA would have sat there and done nothing to exploit it, possibly even helping to hold the borders secure, as -A- and UK did when CVA got disbanded.

[Dots]

Also, when did CVA get an advantage from metagaming that was done? I said earlier, the hijacking of UK was NOT metagaming, that was player politics driven by an in game function (albeit a broken one), had the account been hacked, and the alliance disbanded (what happened to CVA late 2009), then CVA would have sat there and done nothing to exploit it, possibly even helping to hold the borders secure, as -A- and UK did when CVA got disbanded.

let me get this straight .. what you call ingame politics, in the specific scenario was spying. Aralis decided to out a cva spy in aaa, but he reaped the benefits of spying against uk. That was my point and the incosistency is apparent.

I totally agree though that rp has helped cva last longer. RP motivates people when other means fail and creates really strong bonds when used properly. However there is nothing "pure, good" in RP. It is just a way of playing the game. Others RP bloodthirsty pirates in lowsec and are equally persistent.

[Manfred Hideous]

let me get this straight .. what you call ingame politics, in the specific scenario was spying. Aralis decided to out a cva spy in aaa, but he reaped the benefits of spying against uk. That was my point and the incosistency is apparent.

I totally agree though that rp has helped cva last longer. RP motivates people when other means fail and creates really strong bonds when used properly. However there is nothing "pure, good" in RP. It is just a way of playing the game. Others RP bloodthirsty pirates in lowsec and are equally persistent.

From what I understand the -A- spy was also in either CVA or an ally. That's a bit different than finding out X is a spy and turning him in even though he's not a member of your sphere of influence and therefore not subject to your rules. The two incidents are really only similar in that they both involved Aralis knowing of the existence of a spy.

Something tells me he might have been inclined to dime him out if U'K hadn't already shown a willingness to metagame / spy in order to get Provi back. We'll never know.

[Ooohyoutouchmytralala]

I don't consider tarac a spy in UK. There was no reason to out him, as he was a proper member of the alliance, and became disgruntled, rather than (i'm assuming) joining for the sole purpose of gathering intel or doing damage.

[Phineas Freak]

thanks to all involved to help me feel 2 years younger again and immersee in the sea of tears 2009 for about 2-3 pages. it was a blast.
but i just woke up from my office nap and the calendar showed the right year again, he even refused to sync with kugus providence thread.

tralala, stronke, i am not sure if some people will ever admit that letting metagaming or in-eve politics happen is not the same as hacking an account.

we could add "acively fighting metagaming" to our banner and see how much credit we get for it. i am afraid we might get rewarded with inappropriate comments on empress jamyll's leaked counselling sessions, or worse. and if you spot metagaming cva members, root them out and make it public including something like audio logs, images, screenshots, any sort of "proof". i don't doubt your argument, it's just that this is a neverending trollsession of some sorts that will leave all involved disappointed.

btw. i am very glad UK is still around for various reasons. of course it is not the same as cva isn't the same anymore either. i wonder if eve could bear some new, "soft" forms of roleplaying apart from the foreverwar against the elusive, evil botting empire. the muninn fan club might not be edgy enough.