Deja Vu: Delve, Querious, Period Basis and Fountain

[Batto Rem]

well don't get me started oh how dumb I think -A- is when it come to tactics, they were like atlas in that they never think outside of the box and the answer to when that tactic does not work is to try it again.

i don't see why not giving fights to people is such a bad thing. it's really worked for them before. they just play the game conservatively. not wasting assets on something they think they can't win. sure it does suck for the members but in the long run it works out pretty well for them. but sitting around and waiting does not lower moral as much as losing every since fight you are a part of.

[DurrHurrDurr]

well don't get me started oh how dumb I think -A- is when it come to tactics, they were like atlas in that they never think outside of the box and the answer to when that tactic does not work is to try it again.

i don't see why not giving fights to people is such a bad thing. it's really worked for them before. they just play the game conservatively. not wasting assets on something they think they can't win. sure it does suck for the members but in the long run it works out pretty well for them. but sitting around and waiting does not lower moral as much as losing every since fight you are a part of.

There are plenty of fights they can win pretty handily that they've turned down because the odds aren't overwhelming.

There's a difference between conservatively taking fights and just straight-up avoiding fights.

[Richter Belmont]

well don't get me started oh how dumb I think -A- is when it come to tactics, they were like atlas in that they never think outside of the box and the answer to when that tactic does not work is to try it again.

i don't see why not giving fights to people is such a bad thing. it's really worked for them before. they just play the game conservatively. not wasting assets on something they think they can't win. sure it does suck for the members but in the long run it works out pretty well for them. but sitting around and waiting does not lower moral as much as losing every since fight you are a part of.

Yeah, not being able to get a full wing of dudes in the primetime of your enemy (they were filling multiple fleets a month and a half ago, for reference) in addition to all your lead FCs going inactive while allowing your opposition to recoup all losses and stockpile for a much more destructive war is winning in the long term.

I posted this before - if Herculetz, Methuselah and Makalu think that they can blueball and "wait out" ten thousand fucking people like it's no big deal, with no negative repercussions to themselves, they have another thing coming.

[Mental Maverick]

I'd try and find the best of the situation too if I had to shoot 3 regions worth of structures that don't even belong to my enemy lmao

That doesn't even make sense.

Not entirely sure about this, mostly because I haven't followed exactly who it is that have lost sov in this conflict, but I would hazzard a guess that what he is talking about is that -A- as an alliance haven't lost sov, only their allies have. So basicly it's the same mentallity as they have with their green killboards, while their coalition as a whole loses fights -A-s own killboard is in the green.

Seems like a pretty weird way of looking at your allies if that is indeed what he meant

[Le'Blob]

These consequences sound intriguing. No doubt mity TEST will take Catch, AAA will be ruined, and herc/maka/meth will rue the day that they did not give free kills to TEST of all people. heh

At this point in the game, there is literally nothing you can threaten to do to AAA that has not already been done to AAA, and by people vastly more capable and intelligent then TEST.

[DurrHurrDurr]

These consequences sound intriguing. No doubt mity TEST will take Catch, AAA will be ruined, and herc/maka/meth will rue the day that they did not give free kills to TEST of all people. heh

At this point in the game, there is literally nothing you can threaten to do to AAA that has not already been done to AAA, and by people vastly more capable and intelligent then TEST.

Well, yeah, that's true, -A-'s pretty much been shit on in every direction possible.

[Centra]

I feel bad for -A-, they were abused growing up and now they abuse their allies. It's an endless cycle.

Attachment 3354

[Securitas]

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliances

TEST just surpassed GSF in size.

[tgr]

These consequences sound intriguing. No doubt mity TEST will take Catch, AAA will be ruined, and herc/maka/meth will rue the day that they did not give free kills to TEST of all people. heh

At this point in the game, there is literally nothing you can threaten to do to AAA that has not already been done to AAA, and by people vastly more capable and intelligent then TEST.

In other words, -A- is the housewife everyone loves to beat, and they're now so cowed that even test can do it?

Nice spin.

[Raketefrau]

These consequences sound intriguing. No doubt mity TEST will take Catch, AAA will be ruined, and herc/maka/meth will rue the day that they did not give free kills to TEST of all people. heh

At this point in the game, there is literally nothing you can threaten to do to AAA that has not already been done to AAA, and by people vastly more capable and intelligent then TEST.

As has been said a dozen times in this thread and all of its preceding threads, you don't kill -A-, you just push them to Stain.

In other words, you can't kill shit, it just turns to Stain, then recycles itself back into life.

Flush all you want, they'll make more.

[Skabbor]

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliances

TEST just surpassed GSF in size.

Race to 10.000! For someone with 750 points in Corp Management across all my characters, what's the max limit these days? I know Goons had to muck around with different corps back in the day due to skill limitations but I haven't given a shit since.

[progodlegend]

Race to 10.000! For someone with 750 points in Corp Management across all my characters, what's the max limit these days? I know Goons had to muck around with different corps back in the day due to skill limitations but I haven't given a shit since.

Soverignty allows for plenty of room, but I'm pretty sure goons already had 10,000 like a month or two ago, matter in fact i'm like 99% sure.

[Berdennol]

Soverignty allows for plenty of room, but I'm pretty sure goons already had 10,000 like a month or two ago, matter in fact i'm like 99% sure.

I looked it up, unless Dotlan somehow missed it, this is the 1% time you're wrong.

[tgr]

Soverignty allows for plenty of room, but I'm pretty sure goons already had 10,000 like a month or two ago, matter in fact i'm like 99% sure.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Goonswarm_Federation seems to disagree with you.

[nightlord]

Race to 10.000! For someone with 750 points in Corp Management across all my characters, what's the max limit these days? I know Goons had to muck around with different corps back in the day due to skill limitations but I haven't given a shit since.

I want to say counting the numbers it looks like 6300 people max are allowed in a corp. Not sure about an alliance member cap.

[progodlegend]

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Goonswarm_Federation seems to disagree with you.

I could have sworn, i saw them over 10k at one point. Oh well.

[Razzor]

Are the Aliens still intercepting your Disqus messages as well PG ?

[DurrHurrDurr]

Stealing Tez's rep for this shit

[Userkare]

So if I want to join like battles on HBC side which Corps takes alts who play 2-3 times a week usually during EU-TZ?

My mains in WH-Space and I don't intend to change that.

Flame on

Tribal Band takes anyone I think.

[MintyRoadkill]

That doesn't even make sense.

-A- tends to think that even though those 3 regions belonged to their coalition, that since it was the pets who lived there that it's not their loss. Or that only they are our true enemy since their "pet alliances" all suck, or something. -A- logic is convoluted. But they always deny having anything to do with Delve/PB/Querious, in my experience anyway. If anyone from -A- wants to step up and be realistic, I'm all ears.

[Scotch]

Fucking Tez.

[Securitas]

There is no alliance membership cap, only corporate membership caps, which I believe remain at 6300.

[eddict]

HoneyBadger State of the Coalition 9/22/2012 [Recording]
http://soundcloud.com/eddicted/honeybadger-state-of-the
Q&A:
http://soundcloud.com/eddicted/honey...state-of-the-1

[SoCoalist]

HoneyBadger State of the Coalition 9/22/2012 [Recording]
http://soundcloud.com/eddicted/honeybadger-state-of-the
Q&A:
http://soundcloud.com/eddicted/honey...state-of-the-1

Can anyone make a resume of what was announced ?

This forever hostile will be gratefull

[Vicodin]

Stealing someone's cliff's notes.

Montolio's Housecleaning

• HBC is fully formed as a stable coalition capable of offensive and defensive wars.
• TEST finances are under control. 5% TEST corp tax gone after this last month of payment.
• Sov transfers are still being sorted out.
• We ground through these three regions far faster than we expected. SoCo has mounted two large counteroffensives, neither of which were effective on a meaningful scale.
• Raiden. and Init., welcome to the HBC!
• All enemy offensives have collapsed into nothingness.
• -A- is stuck in the mindset of the old EVE master-pet organization. They have a hard time understanding the relationships TEST has with other alliances because they can't understand anything that isn't a master-pet relationship.
• HBC is intended to be a collaborative community. Anyone who is willing and capable of leadership can be part of it. TEST has handled logistics for the most part, Pandemic Legion has handled the military side very well.
• Montolio does not want dictatorships or beaureucracy. At the same time, the coalition will not tolerate shitlords and/or faggots. If you are culturally incompatible, you will be recieving the boot.
• We want communities that exist for reasons more than simple convenience.
• We've been firmly beating the SoCo. Their fleet numbers have dropped sharply, and they can not form large fleets any more.
• Many of us wish to push into Catch. -A- continually attacks our structures. If they cease this, they will be allowed to stay where they are. If not, we will be forced to invade. -A- wants us to invade Catch so that they can retreat to Stain so they can fight a guerilla war in Catch till the new owners leave. If we have to push into Catch, we will focus only on key staging systems, which will become freeport systems. We will salt the earth and harass their renters as much as possible, forcing them to fight for Catch.

Shadoo On The Military And Fleet Doctrines

• Shadoo has personally attacked Delve four times, and defended Delve three times. This is the most impressive assault on Delve he has ever seen, and the most impressive defense of Fountain and Delve he has seen. There is no great glory in defensive wars, but it is important to recognize this achievement, against one of the oldest and most knowledgeable coalitions in the game.
• Logistics has done spectacularly in these last few months.
• We have done better than entities like BoB in projecting our power over short spans of time. We have been able to form counterfleets in hostile primetimes and halt their offensives in their own timezones. -A- successfully countered our Rokhfleet with changing their Tengu fits, but by changing our own fits we were able to counter their new fits.
• One of the most impressive things we've pulled off were the doctrine changes we made. In under a week we were able to completely counter -A- Tengufleets by switching to Foxcats. To this day, -A- has not been able to counter Foxcats. We will have to remain ready for swift ship fitting changes and doctrine changes to remain relevant as a coalition. To everyone, thank you and well done.
• Foxcats were designed for a defensive role. For them to serve an offensive role, we need more logistics pilots. We will have to be ready for -A- to make a mistake so that we can punish them for it, and for this we need as many logistics pilots in fleets as we need.
• Foxcats will not be our only fleet doctrine. Shadoo will be calling for more fleet concept tests, so be prepared to participate in those tests!
• Massive changes are coming in the upcoming winter expansion. Those coalitions who adapt to these changes the fastest will be the most effective in the game, and PL, and by extension the HBC, wish to be at the forefront of this change.
• Train towards Tech II projectiles, both autocannons and artillery, as well as Foxcat skills (Large Lasers and Amarr Battleship), and logistics ships.
• Hostiles have split off into four regions, and are looking for excuses to disengage with the HBC front. -A- will likely be re-deploying to Curse in the near future, in no small part to avoid fighting with the HBC. Prepare to make this as painful for them as possible.
• Take advantage of this small downtime to stockpile money, have fun fleets, and prepare for war.

Montolio On Recent Policy Changes

• Wrik Hoover is amazing. He has recorded the fleet comms of seemingly every single -A- fleet, and he has single-handedly shown to EVE how terribly -A- treats their allies, as well as each other. Much love to you, Wrik.
• TEST is now the largest alliance in terms of pilots, as well as by the number of systems we hold. We are only 8 stations behind the largest station-holder in EVE.
• (Unverified) TEST has more German players than Ev0ke.
• Baki Yuki is a controversial person among these new German players. Montolio believes in giving him the benefit of the doubt, but if he does give reason he will be drummed out.
• Supercapital sales ban has been lifted. Montolio apologises for handling this announcement in the way he did. The policy was a CFC carryover. At the time, the policy made sense. Then, supercapitals were incredibly powerful. But then is not now, and we are no longer part of the CFC. Supercapitals have been repeatedly nerfed, to the point where Montolio believes the policy is no longer necessary. There are also economic benefits. We do not have Technetium reserves like the CFC, so we need to look to other sources for making money, such as supercapital sales.
• TEST supercapital manufacturers are required to make a good-faith attempt to sell supercapitals within TEST or the HBC at bro-prices before selling them on the open market.
• Supercapital subsidies are expected to be returning in the late fall now that TEST finances have stabilized.
• DurrHurrDurr and Rob3r are both retarded and sort-of-leaked the news about our new rental policy.
• For a long time we have lambasted renters and those who rent to them, and the backlash to our new policy regarding renters is understandable.
• Montolio has decided that CCP has most likely begun moving to prefer active income over passive income. While we were up North, everyone had so much technetium that renters were not necessary. In the South, we don't have those sources of income.
• Montolio believes that the problem TEST has with renters is not, in fact, the renters. It is the landlords that we hate. We hate them because they have taken the master-pet relationship to the extreme, and have been complete shitfucks to their renters. How could we make our policies different from this, to avoid treating our renters like shit? When renters buy into the system. They join an alliance called Honey Badger Coalition, who is +2.5 to us. They get to live in Fountain and use all of TEST space in Fountain. They have no fleet, auth, or services access.
• People will not be disallowed from scamming, so long as you are not impersonating a diplomat or dishonestly representing our rental program. The alliance description will be adjusted as such.
• Money can also be made through referrals. If you send a potential renter to our rental program diplomats (Eliphal and Dirk Action), and they are chosen for the program, you are entitled to a currently-undecided cut of their payments.
• Renters will not be recieving sov or exclusivity, they will have access to all of Fountain and own none of it.
• Being a cunt to renters will be considered bluefucking, and will be treated as such.
• Rental program revenue will go towards sov costs in Fountain first, then into other programs. One such program is a "Supercapital Welp Reimbursement Fund" in the case of a supercapital welp. This will only pay out if the pilot was not doing something stupid that lead to their loss. The rental income will be shared, in one way or another, with the entire coalition. We are a community, and we will treat one another as such.
• If the program is shown to not work, it will be disbanded. It will be given a few months to prove its worth, but if it shows to not be worth what it costs us, it will be ended.
• Overall, we have been very surprised and happy with our new allies, Raiden. and The Initiative. We should welcome them with open arms, give them the benefit of the doubt, set aside our preconcieved notion about them, and try to help them join us as a community. Sov will be handed over to them over time.
• Other alliances are still being talked to about joining the HBC.
• The HBC is not affiliated with Goons or the CFC. TEST is still and will remain blue with Goons, but that is a relationship personal to TEST and is separate from the HBC.

State of The Alliance Wrap Up

• We're beginning to coordinate on the battlefield with Raiden. and The Initiative.
• Raiden. will be broadcasting fleets, especially armour HACS (!), to the HBC.
• Squads will be opened to the entire coalition, and allies are encouraged to join them.

Q&A With Paul Knuth

• Q: What is the goal for renters?
• A: We are already making >8b per month. Eliphal estimates revenue up to 50-60b per month.
• Q: Are regions other than Querious up for grabs for our allies?
• A: Fountain will also be divided up amongst our allies. Delve will be remaning TEST space as much as possible.
• Q: How will renters that go into other regions be dealt with?
• A: All of TEST space in Fountain is open to renters. Renters found outside of Fountain will be politely reminded.
• Q: How does ratting priority work with renters in Fountain?
• A: First come first serve. Right of refusal will be avoided as much as possible.
• Q: From Dovinian: What do you think about buttsbuttsbuttsbuttsbutts?
• A: Completely for them.
• Q: With no central authority in the HBC, what concerns are there about disagreements?
• A: There have been disagreements, but they aren't a concern. If an issue arises a more rigid structure will be implemented, but thus far no such changes have been needed.
• Q: How will supercapital subsidies tie in with public sales?
• A: Flipping supers to the market is not cool. That will be treated as bluefucking within TEST. There will be a grace period for supercapital flipping.
• Q: When will Dreddit be able to use corporation taxes for activities?
• A: Complicated question. Dreddit is thought of as TEST, and by extension HoneyBadgers. Corporation-only operations are going to be avoided, and should be oriented towards the whole HoneyBadger community.
• Q: With all of these new doctrines, will these fittings and their pertinent information be centralized?
• A: We are currently in a transitional period, but they will be pushed to be available on the wiki (wiki.pleaseignore.com). Montolio is looking to trim down the number of doctrines the coalition uses.
• Q: What are the plans for dealing with awoxers within renters?
• A: Corporations with awoxers will be kicked and barred from returning till they fully repay the losses.
• Q: What is the status of sov upgrades and the jump bridge network in Delve?
• A: Upgrades have been filtering into Delve, Querious has been shaky, and will most likely lag behind. Donations for upgrades are welcome (logistics will dislike you, but they're still welcome). Stations are being handed out to corporations that upgrade the systems.
• Q: Have we decided on what constellations in Querious will be given to our allies?
• A: Not yet. Don't attempt to set up a base of operations in Querious till everything shakes out.
• Q: Will renters be able to join TEST?
• A: Renters can apply to DAWWW, and they will go through the same process as any other corporation. Plans are being made to raise corporation recruitment standards. No priority will be given to renters looking to join TEST proper.
• Q: Will renters have access to our services, and will that affect their ability to integrate with our culture?
• A: Complicated question. Do we want to integrate these people into our social structure? This is a purely business transaction. Integration will not be required.

Announcements

• Guillane: German speakers should join TEST-GER ingame to chill with other Germans.
• Logistics: If corps are interested and capable of providing system upgrades, contact SkierX about this.
• For those who did not attend TESTival, please attend! It was amazing last year, and the next one will be just as fun!
• Jinli, Dovinian, Barrien, and other TEST dudes are going to EVE Vegas. Contact them if you are also going and want to coordinate.
• We will be changing server hardware soon to deal with larger loads. Twizted Sizter is now our fourth systems administrator. Appreciate your sysadmins, because they're pretty much the coolest dudes ever!

Holy shit

[Ecocrexis]

Q&A:
http://soundcloud.com/eddicted/honey...state-of-the-1

My favourite part:
Q: how will we deal with awoxing with renters
A: We can't

[Razzor]

You stated how you hate landlords because they treat renters as 2nd class citizens and then went ahead and listed how they will be 2nd class citizens. Also why would you pay for blue standings when you could just join TASHA like everyone else.

[nightlord]

Its TRIBE now.

[Fix Lag]

I think I'm just going to roll a renter alt to kill a TEST guy that I don't like.

[Razzor]

The funny side to that Fix is you will have to pay for the privilege while any TEST members that wished to kill you would only have to ask

[Ammzi]

You stated how you hate landlords because they treat renters as 2nd class citizens and then went ahead and listed how they will be 2nd class citizens. Also why would you pay for blue standings when you could just join TASHA like everyone else.

It's really not hard. Just tribe.
By the way, ROL has lost 3 neo moons in paragon and 6+ are rf'd.

[Fix Lag]

I just like the "the overlords are shit" line and then they go on to say that you can scam renters and basically do whatever to them, but don't be cunts because that is bad.

Jesus this will not end well.

[Agathor]

I think TEST is gonna win the most improved alliance in the next faggies.

[Stevens]

I just like the "the overlords are shit" line and then they go on to say that you can scam renters and basically do whatever to them, but don't be cunts because that is bad.

Jesus this will not end well.

If I read it right, scamming renters will be considered bluefucking.

[Fix Lag]

• People will not be disallowed from scamming, so long as you are not impersonating a diplomat or dishonestly representing our rental program. The alliance description will be adjusted as such.

fuck blues 'erry day

[Userkare]

[/LIST]

fuck blues 'erry day

You are not allowed to scam current renters, only potential renters.

[DurrHurrDurr]

[/LIST]

fuck blues 'erry day

Yeah, that's about potential renters ie. marks.

[ihaveahelmet]

fuck all blues forever

[Elendar]

Yeah, not being able to get a full wing of dudes in the primetime of your enemy (they were filling multiple fleets a month and a half ago, for reference) in addition to all your lead FCs going inactive while allowing your opposition to recoup all losses and stockpile for a much more destructive war is winning in the long term.

I posted this before - if Herculetz, Methuselah and Makalu think that they can blueball and "wait out" ten thousand fucking people like it's no big deal, with no negative repercussions to themselves, they have another thing coming.

Why? They've done it enough times before and its worked every time. Blueballing the blob and waiting it out makes far more sense than feeding it.

[Elendar]

Also "This is the most impressive assault on Delve he has ever seen, and the most impressive defense of Fountain and Delve he has seen. There is no great glory in defensive wars, but it is important to recognize this achievement, against one of the oldest and most knowledgeable coalitions in the game."
Ahahah

[Fix Lag]

Why? They've done it enough times before and its worked every time. Blueballing the blob and waiting it out makes far more sense than feeding it.

and I quote, "That's what we're counting on."

[Lorren Canada]

We will salt the earth and harass their renters as much as possible, forcing them to fight for Catch.

My favorite idea for destroying Catch was one floated by goons (back when tech was 200.000k a unit) to drop caldari stations in every system making it worthless for holding/renting.

[Razzor]

Oh silly Securitas camping our Capital trying to kill our Dreads.

Denied at 50% hull

owned

[Securitas]

Oh silly Securitas camping our Capital trying to kill our Dreads.

Denied at 50% hull

owned

"We meant to send an untanked moros as bait"

6 tier 3 bcs basically killing a moros awww yeah

[02:39:54] Hagress > cannot believe we used fuel for this

owned

[Razzor]

Bait for what ?

what the fuck are you talking about ?, nobody said it was bait. Also chest beating over "basically" killing something, you heard it here first.

[Securitas]

Confirming I was chestbeating. It was just awesome as fuck.

Honestly, TY to gsf for a great time today!

[Mr Coloredshirt]

Also "This is the most impressive assault on Delve he has ever seen, and the most impressive defense of Fountain and Delve he has seen. There is no great glory in defensive wars, but it is important to recognize this achievement, against one of the oldest and most knowledgeable coalitions in the game."
Ahahah

how is the war against minmatar going?

[sladislov]

Heh, TEST is renting out;
This will end well.

There won't be any awoxing; 'cause as soon as fountain becomes not dead anymore all those claystealers in serp NPC will start roaming/camping everything again.

Turnover rate of the renters will be very high.

[Muhadin]

Bait for what ?

what the fuck are you talking about ?, nobody said it was bait. Also chest beating over "basically" killing something, you heard it here first.

It don't matter whether you lose by an inch or a mile, losing is loosing.

[SoCoalist]

Holy shit

Thanks a lot for the update.