confirming I miss provi as well. We had some good times. I remember saying, "whats the point of even roaming, we get more fights just running around provi till a fleet shows up."Originally Posted by Holdem
confirming I miss provi as well. We had some good times. I remember saying, "whats the point of even roaming, we get more fights just running around provi till a fleet shows up."
Murr, you don't know man, you weren't there. In the first black screen of D-G, the POS bowling, they doomsdayed our Guardians man. OUR GUARDIANS! TWO HOURS OF BLACK SCREEN! F5ing the killboard to find your capital loss.
And the spy on Vent, singing during it all. The spy told us which of our capitals was the next primary.
You just don't know, get out.
Edit:
+rep ;)
I'm going to reach way back here and take issue with this comment. I respect and even admire Mittens, but this is dead wrong.
It has nothing to do with them being RPers per se. It has everything to do with them being bad RPers. They're RPers living in a world that is not represented in the game or its fluff. I've touched on this point before, when tralala was complaining about people smartbombing or threatening to smartbomb Poreumai's funeral.
CCP has gone to great pains to present the capsuleers as the scheming, evil, uncaring gods of the dystopian future. We have the cash to buy planets on a whim and the firepower to collapse biospheres for fun. CVA and U'K are out there trying to play D&D with the usual party of small-time do-gooders on Faerun. CCP is running a game of Rogue Trader or an exceptionally high-powered take on WoD.
In short nobody in EVE who's been a roleplayer and worthy of any form of attention has had a fucking clue how to roleplay (perhaps SF, if you squint real hard?), starting with adapting to and understanding the setting. All these goddamn idiot white knights and honorable types don't get the message that some level of sociopathy is demanded simply by the pod pilot's day-to-day activities of killing hundreds of thousands of people, that other people who are not pod pilots are quite literally worthless by comparison. CCP has come out and outright stated these things, but still people persist in blathering on with the great crusades and pretending to be good guys.
This is not a game with good guys. It is not supposed to be a game with good guys. Anyone claiming that mantle, from any perspective, RP or no RP, is automatically dooming themselves. CCP has told you that you are one of many in a sea of cutthroats, backstabbers, and villains. If the RP types would actually play that game, they might have a fighting chance.
Damn, my rep finally went red with all that rage after my Krutoj comment. Oh noes.
Annnnyhoo. Night's correct: I found out there a friend of mine plays EVE, and he's one of the roleplayer types. The shitty roleplayer types. He's the kind of player who goes to Incursions in his Caracal expecting to kill Sansha Kuvakei and is disappointed when he gets blown up along with all his life savings.
Roleplayers like that will never, ever, find a happy home in EVE. There is simply too much random violence for them to justify it all and continue pretending that by not shooting that extra structure by Kruul's Pleasure Hub they're somehow a better person and that thousands of lives were saved.
Space pixels. Just space pixels. In a game.
While it's "just space pixels" to you, to many, it's an escape from real life. Life is hard for some, it's shitty for others and for many (most I hope), like myself, the game a way to kill time and get entertainment.
The thing with eve is that in your sandbox, it's ~just pixels~ but for others, it's a canvas to paint on for a space RPer's wet dream.
note: this is one of the better threads I've seen on this site in a while. must have something to do with how old provi had an impact on so much of EVE.
This is, interestingly enough, why I play. It's a fun way to not focus on the paper that's due tomorrow or the test next week. I just don't see how RP-to-the-core players expect to survive--like Night said, they're always white-knights. You never see RPers whose sole pleasure is ejecting civilians out into space and then shooting the cargo containers they're in.
You mean ganking carebears right? Those people don't 'need' to RP, it's typecast.
I used to RP long ago in WoW 1.0 as a dwarf priest in an all dwarf guild. We marched around ironforge in formation yelling dwarfy things.
Eventually I realized once I hit lvl 60 that if I actually wanted to enjoy the end-game content, I pretty much had to give it up and throw my hat in with the hardcores.
Mittens is right, in that there is no advantage to role playing. In fact, it is distinctly disadvantageous to do things that do not give you the largest edge according to the game mechanics. Which is why he is pretty much right about the whole thing.
If you want to RP because that's where you get your kicks, great. If you RP and expect to win at eve, don't.
That somehow seems to imply that enjoying yourself while playing EVE is not "winning at EVE"...
One of the great things about RP in EVE is that most game mechanics easily translate into in-character terms. Which means that if you are choosing not to play EVE as min-maxed as possible, that is a choice of your character. Hence, any excuse of "we can't do X because we are RPers" is pretty silly. My character can make perfectly fine fun of CVA in-character because they totally fail at Realpolitik. The excuse is not "we tie our hands behind our backs because we are RPers" but "we tie our hands behind our backs because we want to play characters with these limitations."
And that's the point. Most RPers have different goals in EVE than "being the most bad-ass alliance in the universe". For example, being among nice people, role-playing interesting and deep characters, enjoying a multi-year-long character development, etc. Also, most RPers are casuals. Mostly because they like to focus on other things than min-maxing this game.
All of this amounts to the same thing: Most of the time, RPers will not be PvP powerhouses. But that's not because "roleplaying" gives you inherent disadvantages, but because role-*players* enjoy different stuff.
And, well, if someone is enjoying themselves while playing EVE Online, I would say they are currently winning at EVE. ;-)
PS. I can't stand people who use "but I'm an RPer" to excuse being bad in PvP.
You do realise that you are a roleplayer don't you? You simply roleplay an evil spymaster with no morals and scruples.
CVA roleplayed space pilots with a specific set of moral duties - protecting the weak/building civilisation in 0.0 - using the Amarr Empire as an excuse to do so.
Roleplaying does not necessarily limit you unless you want it to limit you - which in CVA's case we did.
As someone said some time - 'Roleplayers play EVE on hard mode'
It's the challenge which is fun...
As for your point on Provi gaining value in Dominion that is also probably true. It's not the only factor but it was certainly part of the process.
Pre-Dominion there were shitty areas of 0.0 and there were super good areas of 0.0 which created some variety and you know what they say about variety :-)
Now anyone can make lots of cash in 0.0 which as I said in a previous post seems to have been CCP's big idea on attracting people to 0.0 - one which has totally failed (apart from for the botters) as, with the relative pain free ability to take space now (proliferation of supercaps), anyone who does go to 0.0 has to be aligned to one of the big powers - if only for protection...
Anyone who plays eve and does not fly space ships in real life roleplays.
You might come here and claim not to be a role player but when you tell people in real life you fly internet space ships when you get home from work, your get the same funny look weather your in CVA PL NC or any other corp/alliance
The fact is the nature of PVP in eve and the cost of losing means the majority of corps and players will jump ship when things get tough. You can see this in how quickly so called PVP alliances will spring up as everyone jumps ship to what looks like a winning team then cascade again when the shit hits the fan.
In todays EVE the term roleplayer is now applied to the small minority of people who refuse to change so they can be on the winning side and is some what riddiculed by many others.
Fact is 6 or 7 years ago EVE was a different place and NRDS was quite normal behaviour for low sec systems.
just because i'm not an apollo astronaught doesn't mean i'm roleplaying when i'm flying a drake around vale. I'm playing a game involving spaceships. roleplaying in the context of eve (your argument is one of semantics) is assuming a role (be it space captain, religious dude or wizard) and inventing an entire persona and defining what you do in the game around that.
f.ex would you honestly say if you're playing CoD/BC2 you're roleplaying a soldier?
Yes
Everyone playing video games is roleplaying to some extent or other. The only reason people don't want to admit it is that it will hurt their own self image.
nooooo you wouldn't
I will miss Aralis, his explanations about Dominion and the effect on CVA might be a bit off, but the core of it holds some truth. i hope he is not burned out by leading an alliance at war for so many months, and will enjoy fresh air, another game or an awoxing alt (unlikely) from now on.
if you want to play NRDS you can literally say goodbye to sov without a 23/7 online batphone SC fleet that can rape or rep sov structures at will.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to intex encapor again.
NVM
Please elaborate on your intricate knowledge of his dick (and how you came to have this information).
I suggest writing a blog about it.
We all have this info ; He showed his mini to DBRB for a titan
That was not my point though. My reply was to this post. I actually quoted it so you should have realised that.
The pvp action that you had was a combination of providence's location and of the NRDS. And that's not something CVA purposely built, it was a consequence. Again, my criticism was towards this exact phraseology that comes out every time a providence discussion is on the table. A very special thing that was done while it was being built by CVA. While again it comes down to dropping a shitload of stations and installing various scrub pets. And again, I'm not talking about the pvp activity. That wasn't something that was built.
Also, holdem, I know I offended your fond memories of old providence and your first steps as a newborn in the spaceworld but you don't generally negrep a post that just holds a different opinion, you neg rep a bad post. An unfunny post, a mad post, etc.
~~~~GIMMIE +REP+ GIMMIE~~~~
Sowwy Murr, guess I miss understood you.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
CVA declined the Delve offer not least - and I was explicitly told this first hand during the discussions so this is not hearsay - because there was no longer the drive or energy from anyone in the leadership to do the work that would have been necessary in gathering a coalition and motivating people to make it work.
The fact that there is this widespread (amongst CVA's leadership) conspiracy theory that CCP actively designed Dominion with the explicit intention of fucking over CVA, and that as soon as CCP "noticed" CVA holding Delve they would deliberately patch Eve again to prevent that working (no troll!) meant that it is unsurprising that these people didn't have the energy to put into such a grand project. Of course, the whole theory was a surreal, steam-powered dreamscape but there was no persuading them of that, no matter how much goodwill the idea had at the middle and lower levels of the alliance.
My blog: http://endie.net Twitter: EndiePosts
If I forget thee, O Goonfleet dot com, let my right hand forget her typing.
Its a story as old as time Mr. Endie.
People in power would rather destroy everything rather than admit they did something wrong.
Where do you get this bullshit from? I am on CVA Council and there is no mention of CCP designing Dominion to fuck over CVA - nor is there any reason for not moving to Delve other than Leadership generally think it is a bad idea. How do you or your contact know what goodwill the idea had at middle or lower levels of the alliance?
Regarding Dominion yes there were some in CVA leadership who hated it as soon as it was announced - Aralis being one of them. Personally I was persuaded by CCP propoganda that the goal of Dominion was to actually make all of EVE more 'Provi-like' - favouring small alliances and groupings and actually making it harder for mega-blocks to operate - and as such recommended a 'wait and see' attitude. Unfortunately Dominion as it was initially intended was never properly implemented (I understand many of the positive features which would have helped smaller alliances to defend their space were simply dropped).
Aralis patiently sat through all of that and has adpated - but what has particularly annoyed him recently is that it seems CCP don't seem to have learned from the mistakes of Dominion and are actually proposing changes that will make it even harder for small alliances to survive in 0.0 independently. He is not happy waiting around for another x number of years before the pendulum swings back the other way (if it ever does). While you may find the odd (very odd) individual in CVA who may think that Dominion was designed specifically to fuck CVA I think you will find that most CVA members are a little bit saner than that.
Personally - I think the Delve project (Dividing the IT Reich) will be a cluster fuck and one big drama waiting to happen. CVA, as I know it, also does not accept 0.0 from 'friends' just to be 'farmed' by those friends and even if the coalition moving to Delve does not have to make some specific agreement to suck -A-/Stainwagon or TEST/DC cock they all know that their survival relies on those groups and as such can never really have an independent 'foreign' policy...
I know that for some people it would be more convenient if CVA did move to Delve (it would certainly give them more peace in Provi) and as such are doing what they can to encourage that thinking - but they do so for their own reasons and not out of some wish to see CVA prosper...
Of course the leadership has changed - so it is possible the alliance direction will change - and I will look like an idiot - so, as ever, these opinions are my own.
But in real life i'm a cool guy who still has sex with girls. (or so I tell myself)Yes
Everyone playing video games is roleplaying to some extent or other. The only reason people don't want to admit it is that it will hurt their own self image.
Aralis, first hand, with logs which I've restrained myself from quoting out of politeness.
If you want you can simply apologise here for your dumbness and confirm with your main in-game and I will send you the proof.
Edit for clarity: by first hand I mean he told me himself, repeatedly, that there was no point in CVA taking Delve as CCP would patch Eve again explicitly and intentionally to stop CVA succeeeding. I believe that Vile Rat was also in that convo, although it was repeated again later to me alone on MSN. If you are a friend of Aralis on MSN then check his profile and you'll see me (as a version of 'Endie') on there.
My blog: http://endie.net Twitter: EndiePosts
If I forget thee, O Goonfleet dot com, let my right hand forget her typing.
Also I know about opinions at other levels in CVA because I had an alt in a leadership position in a Providence holder for 18 months, have lots (and lots) of contacts from leadership and FCs to grunt level, and watched their delight turn to disbelief as the offer was rejected.
My blog: http://endie.net Twitter: EndiePosts
If I forget thee, O Goonfleet dot com, let my right hand forget her typing.
Apart from that you're p spot on. Except for your bit about "farming" which is the opposite of the truth since CVA explicitly settled for being farmed in Providence in the past while the offer here was space, no strings in return for being a neutral buffer to stop the increasing "blocification" of Eve.
My blog: http://endie.net Twitter: EndiePosts
If I forget thee, O Goonfleet dot com, let my right hand forget her typing.
High pvp activity is something that emerged out of a region under cva dominion.Their intentions in it's most pure form were to create amarr "high sec" out of 0.0 or that's at least how I understand it. Correct me if I am wrong.
What they did manage to create was a fertile ground for many different types of eve players. Perhaps not intentionally, but it was influenced by their policies and their actions so it should be attributed to them.
I will confirm this as well. These conversations were held often, I have a TS recording of aralis going on a two hour rant about the subject last summer, I'm not going to post it out of respect though.
What mystifies me is why TEST thought the answer CVA gave them would be any different from the answer CVA gave -A- back in 2010.
If anything the Delve offer is worse: PL are running arround shitting the region up right now. It's also only a matter of time before someone semi powerful decides to make a grab for it in a similar way Ev0ke grabbed Providence.
In fact there's an idea: Ev0ke and NCdot take Delve and leave Providence for CVA. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to give TEST plenty of good fights...
^^^ I'm not in Test and neither was Vile Rat last I checked.
That's the funny thing: Aralis might have been tired of Eve, wildly misinformed about just about anything to do with sov mechanics and completely fruit loops about CCP being out to get him but he's a nice guy and as a result people tend not to leak the really daft stuff.
My blog: http://endie.net Twitter: EndiePosts
If I forget thee, O Goonfleet dot com, let my right hand forget her typing.
There is no specific agreement to suck anyones cock. We're orange to goons, Atlas, -A-, fuckin' everyone. Standings are pretty glorious right now, just wish I had more time to actually play. It may become a dramabomb that explodes in our faces in some horrible fashion, but it is better than sitting around doing nothing, feeling sorry for oneself. There is not a lot of risk to the project, if it doesn't work out, we all go back to our normal homes. If it does work out, we build power, numbers and sov-holding experience to perhaps someday be able to project power unrestrained. At the very least, it has encouraged people who want to try a hand at greater leadership and FC'ing to do so.Personally - I think the Delve project (Dividing the IT Reich) will be a cluster fuck and one big drama waiting to happen. CVA, as I know it, also does not accept 0.0 from 'friends' just to be 'farmed' by those friends and even if the coalition moving to Delve does not have to make some specific agreement to suck -A-/Stainwagon or TEST/DC cock they all know that their survival relies on those groups and as such can never really have an independent 'foreign' policy
You cannot sit there and arrogantly talk about not accepting sov from people who just "farm you" when you accept systems in Catch from -A- who has done nothing for years but farm and abuse you. Just as CVA has always looked down their noses at the G-W NRDS entities, you already are looking down your nose at the Delve NRDS entities who are trying to come together to create something. Same ol', same ol'.
Well I know Aralis hated Dominion with a passion but I don't believe that he really thinks it was created specifically to fuck over CVA and that CCP will keep changing the mechanics just to fuck over CVA - at least I hope not.
Yes I have no doubt that there were many in CVA who would have an initial positive reaction to be given free space with nice moons etc. - who wouldn't after all. But there are also many others - like me who think its a bad idea for the alliance and what we stand for. Of course I am inactive bastard who hadn't played for 18 months so maybe I am in the minority - but at the end of the day CVA is not a democracy.
As for accepting 'farming' in Provi - we never accepted it and did what we could to stop it. CVA and Holders were often praised for response times to raiders and also whinged at for blobbing but Provi to a certain extent was a victim of its own success and there is no doubt that as the population increase it became a more attractive target for roamers and you cannot stop everyone all the time. We also maintained our own foreign policy - with the end result being the attack on -A-. That would never have happened if we were merely happy with our lot in life and just being' farmed'. Other examples include our involvement on the IAC side in various wars and blocking the BoB cyno chain in FSW. All of those action carried risks with them but CVA accepted those risks. Will the alliances installed in Delve really do anything serious to piss off their benefactors?
@HandofSatan And no I am not looking down my nose at the Delve NRDS entities - as I said in the other thread I hope they do well - I just dont think it is right for CVA and what we stand for. I also am not a spokesperson for the CVA anymore so when I state that I think Delve is not for CVA I am stating my own opinion. I do think that Delve will eventually turn out to be a clusterfuck but I hope that I am proved wrong and wish anyone trying to implement an NRDS system there the best of luck. Who knows, CVA may even lend a hand at some point.
To quote myself from last week and the other thread
I wish any NRDS entities that move to Delve the best of luck and genuinely hope that they succeed. Properly policed NRDS generally creates a more populated and interesting region and as CVA knows it no way restricts the amount of Reds you have (quite the opposite in fact).
My response is due to the idea that NRDS entities accepting an invite to Delve is any different than CVA accepting stations in Catch from -A-. I don't see CVA SBU'ing the White Noise relay system in their constellation, so there's literally no difference between the offers.
Yes, they did in Catch this same month from -A-/Stainwagon.CVA, as I know it, also does not accept 0.0 from 'friends' just to be 'farmed' by those friends
I am not party to the details of the -A- / CVA agreement in Catch but I doubt that it imposes any restriction on CVA activities and self determination. If CVA is not SBUing the White Noise relay system in the constellation that is probably more due to pragmatism (we have enough on our plate at the moment) than some written agreement with -A- - but I may be wrong....
Have you read this thread? Every other fucking word out of the CVA sperg is DOMINON.
slow day and all that's going on is the provi thread, and hardin is chill so i'm going to lay out a fucking words post
this is a vaguely interesting defense that's often deployed by rpers in eve. the idea is that, by logging into eve online, you too are 'roleplaying'. this is total bullshit.
as someone who happily roleplays in other, better games, i can tell the difference when someone is roleplaying and when they aren't
in my case, i do enjoy roleplaying when i play a good roleplaying game. i used to enjoy the fuck out of vampire tabletop (owod), i spent many years playing the hell out of text-based mushes, d&d (occasional RP, mostly hack and slash ofc), all the usual stuff. i larped a lot (real larp, not darkon where i just hit people) at conventions and am a big old rper nerd
but eve is not a good roleplaying game. the setting isn't well supported, and there's too much a gulf between the game mechanics and the story. i think incarna can change a lot of that. basically with eve you don't have any real feeling of immersion or connection to the portrait of your avatar; there's no 'character' in eve, you're very much a dude playing a computer game that happens to have a spaceship on the screen unless you go through a tremendous amount ofand blurf it up and seek out other 'serious roleplayers' to blurf with in order to bridge the immersion gap
i mean i guess you can say that you 'roleplay' when you play counterstrike too, that's about the same level of immersion as eve currently has.
sure, you can get together a bunch of guys who try to turn counterstrike into a roleplaying game by using MILITARY COMMS and invent characters and stuff, but they have to do most of the work. in eve, you can roleplay, but you similarly have to invent a rpg and sort of jury-rig it onto a space-combat or space-market simulator program (which eve actually functions as)
this is something which disappoints me because i think that eve could be a good serious rp game, if incarna works out, and i will probably smuggle an alt into whatever version of CVA is currently active and indulge in my rp fetish IN SPACE
ok so
as for 'mittens roleplays a spymaster', that implies that i log into eve much (i don't) and it also implies that i'm intentionally altering my personality to adopt the character of THE MITTANI, which is what i would do if I was, say, at an oldschool vampire larp or playing a character on a MUSH
i'm not doing that here. about the closest alteration of my 'personality' is the no-capital-letters, tilde-spewing troll voice i adopt when fucking with idiots on forums. i actually am a manipulative sadist who enjoys hurting people i dislike
i mean i'm charming and polite and well-mannered but i unironically enjoy making people i dislike suffer and out-thinking them and manipulating systems to my advantage. the 'evil and without morals spymaster', c'est moi.
to be fair, i don't enjoy hurting people who are my friends or nice people, and i rescue kittens and have an awesome puppy and a good family life, but there is no 'the mittani character' which i'm roleplaying in eve online, a bad game. that's just me, as anyone who's met me can tell you
[twitter]themittani[/twitter]
Please identify the CVA spergers.
While many in CVA do believe that Dominion played a part in the end of NRDS Providence they certainly dont believe Dominion was the only reason for what happened - please read my tl:dr post on the previous page. What I was calling bullshit on was the allegation that Aralis (and by implication other senior CVA members) believe that Dominion was designed specifically to fuck over CVA and that CCP would continue to change game mechanics to fuck over CVA - hence our non participation in the Delve project. As an old school CVA member I can guarantee you that the conspiracy theory that Dominion was implemented soley to fuck over CVA is not widespread in the alliance - because that would be kinda crazy wouldn't it.
As for Aralis I really have a hard time thinking he actually believed that Dominion was aimed soley at destroying CVA - and think maybe some people are misinterpreting his general unhappiness and rants against it.
this is dumb and any actual roleplayer worth his salt - not an insecure RPer, desperately trying to defend himself against mockery by non-rpers - should know the differenceYes
Everyone playing video games is roleplaying to some extent or other. The only reason people don't want to admit it is that it will hurt their own self image.
i mean you might spoof the guys who don't roleplay at all hardin but you're spewing nonsense to anyone who has actually roleplayed and is willing to unashamedly admit it
[twitter]themittani[/twitter]
fyp.
we're in no-true-scotsman territory of argument here, that "good roleplayers" would be fine, while "bad ones" suffer
point one: even grimdark 40k or cyberpunk worlds are full of nice, compliant and easily manipulated people who are Too Nice; you can't have an entire society full of amoral manipulators. so to say that the honorhonor e-samurai are by definition 'bad' roleplayers isn't fair to them
point two: certain mechanics of eve cannot be squared with 'serious' roleplaying easily. forum wars, contact with people who don't roleplay (try maintaining your immersion with z0r chains in local) or people who are actively hostile to roleplay, and pretty much the entire espionage metagame. your average roleplayer in eve online doesn't cope well with any of this. you can say that an Ideal Nasty Roleplayer can fight and win wars just fine, but we're not discussing the Ideal Roleplayer, we're discussing the realpolitik
and the realpolitik is that the vast majority of people playing eve online and trying to roleplay in it are vaguely masochistic e-honor types and thus they enter any fight with a non-roleplaying entity at a tremendous disadvantage
[twitter]themittani[/twitter]
Interesting post but I disagree with the premise that simply being 'yourself' means you are not roleplaying. You are still a character and the annonimity of the internet does mean that you probably act differently when online than you would in your 'rl'. At the very least EVE gives you more freedom to indulge in 'out thinking' and 'manipulating systems' than you get in real life (certainly more opportunities than the average Joe would get). While you may not feel the need to create a back story and history for your character you have effectively done that by default by playing the game.slow day and all that's going on is the provi thread, and hardin is chill so i'm going to lay out a fucking words post
this is a vaguely interesting defense that's often deployed by rpers in eve. the idea is that, by logging into eve online, you too are 'roleplaying'. this is total bullshit.
as someone who happily roleplays in other, better games, i can tell the difference when someone is roleplaying and when they aren't
in my case, i do enjoy roleplaying when i play a good roleplaying game. i used to enjoy the fuck out of vampire tabletop (owod), i spent many years playing the hell out of text-based mushes, d&d (occasional RP, mostly hack and slash ofc), all the usual stuff. i larped a lot (real larp, not darkon where i just hit people) at conventions and am a big old rper nerd
but eve is not a good roleplaying game. the setting isn't well supported, and there's too much a gulf between the game mechanics and the story. i think incarna can change a lot of that. basically with eve you don't have any real feeling of immersion or connection to the portrait of your avatar; there's no 'character' in eve, you're very much a dude playing a computer game that happens to have a spaceship on the screen unless you go through a tremendous amount of
i mean i guess you can say that you 'roleplay' when you play counterstrike too, that's about the same level of immersion as eve currently has.
sure, you can get together a bunch of guys who try to turn counterstrike into a roleplaying game by using MILITARY COMMS and invent characters and stuff, but they have to do most of the work. in eve, you can roleplay, but you similarly have to invent a rpg and sort of jury-rig it onto a space-combat or space-market simulator program (which eve actually functions as)
this is something which disappoints me because i think that eve could be a good serious rp game, if incarna works out, and i will probably smuggle an alt into whatever version of CVA is currently active and indulge in my rp fetish IN SPACE
ok so
as for 'mittens roleplays a spymaster', that implies that i log into eve much (i don't) and it also implies that i'm intentionally altering my personality to adopt the character of THE MITTANI, which is what i would do if I was, say, at an oldschool vampire larp or playing a character on a MUSH
i'm not doing that here. about the closest alteration of my 'personality' is the no-capital-letters, tilde-spewing troll voice i adopt when fucking with idiots on forums. i actually am a manipulative sadist who enjoys hurting people i dislike
i mean i'm charming and polite and well-mannered but i unironically enjoy making people i dislike suffer and out-thinking them and manipulating systems to my advantage. the 'evil and without morals spymaster', c'est moi.
to be fair, i don't enjoy hurting people who are my friends or nice people, and i rescue kittens and have an awesome puppy and a good family life, but there is no 'the mittani character' which i'm roleplaying in eve online, a bad game. that's just me, as anyone who's met me can tell you
It has always been my view that everyone playing EVE is a roleplayer (albeit not the traditional kind) because EVERYONE is playing a role and creating stories in a fantasy environment. That is why I never understood the more 'traditional' roleplayers when they would bitch about Goons, or whoever, destroying their 'immersion'. IMHO Goons are ultimate roleplayers because they create the best stories...
your definition is retarded. why? because it does not define. anyone and everyone can 'create stories' doing just about anything, anywhere
when i log into world of tanks and shoot some dudes i'm not 'roleplaying'. there is no role. it's a tank. it shoots things. i am not 'trying to behave like a tank'.
if i get together with four insane friends and we invent a game where we're all nazi tank commanders and invent a comms scheme and try to put ourselves in the role of nazi tank commanders, sure, we can have a really lame attempt at roleplaying in world of tanks
i'm man enough to admit that i love a good bit of roleplay, i don't need to hide behind some kind of 'hurr it's ok because everyone does it even if they don't admit it' excuse. stop hiding.
[twitter]themittani[/twitter]
This would probably be a valid argument against someone who wasn't a lawyer for the government.
?"eve's a bad mmo, really bad, it's only saving grace is the people playing it, which i guess doesn't say great things about the people playing other MMOs"
So what I did was copied posts I believed to belong to CVA + Provi Fight Club members into a text editor and ran a regex based on the words "dominion" and "dominon" (as I misspelled it on my post - derp) and found over 100 mentions in the first 4 pages of this thread.Please identify the CVA spergers.
Using Advanced Statistical Analysis(tm), Checkbox Poll has now determined claims that CVA is not focused on Dominion as the cause of its demise are, in fact, bullshit.
Why would I hide. Seriously it's just what I think. I have no reason at all to try and justify roleplaying or even hide from it.
And yes I will accept my definition is loose but I stand by it.
But changing subject slightly I wanted to comment on your assertion that roleplay = e-honor = fail.
I played WoW for a while back when it first launched. A work colleague of mine created a horde guild on an RP server and strangely Goons were on it too on the alliance side. Anyway Goons were absolutely hated by the traditionalist RPers for all kinds of reasons. Anyway we modelled the Guild on a cult of evil demon worshippers and then proceeded to do all the shit that Goons were condemned for (ganking noobs, raiding starter areas, intervening in other people's events, trying to kill NPCs on our own side etc.) and everyone loved it because we gave them a reason for it - we were evil demon worshiping cultists who wanted chaos - so it was accepted (and damn it felt good being a real bad guy).
My point is that 'roleplaying' per se doesn't have to tie anyone's hands and I certainly don't think roleplaying on its own was a hindrance to CVA.
However you are right about - e-honor - that can tie people's hands and put them at a serious disadvantage in EVE but in my mind 'e-honor' doesnt necessarily = roleplayers. After all Istavaan Shogatsu and the GHSC are ultimate roleplayers but they have demonstrated time and time again that they have no - e-honor. Yes CVA did have e-honor and yes that probably did put us at a serious disadvantage but that was our own choice - it wasnt a roleplaying choice enforced upon us - after all Amarrians can justify pretty much any kind of behaviour as part of their roleplay.
And many non-RP organisations in EVE have had an 'e-honor' approach to the game - but that is their own choice and not necessarily a roleplaying thing (although it is fair to say that roleplaying corps are more likely to attract e-honor types)...
Someone once tried to roleplay a Goon.
His name was Heath Ledger.
Which is not surprising as the thread was started by a post talking about Dominion and has devolved into a discussion on Dominion. Hell as a CVA member I have mentioned Dominion two times (erm three times now) in this post already - yet as far as I am aware am not attributing the CVA demise to it...So what I did was copied posts I believed to belong to CVA + Provi Fight Club members into a text editor and ran a regex based on the words "dominion" and "dominon" (as I misspelled it on my post - derp) and found over 100 mentions in the first 4 pages of this thread.
Which only goes to show that Mark Twain was right when he stated that there are 'Lies, damned lies, and statistics'
But I am impressed that you took the time to do all that work - well done...
I was there too! \o/
I don't think it was quite as explicit as you said, but aralis does consider CCP to be his main adversary in the game.
One of the oldest and most fought-over debates in the RP community is about what actually is and is not "roleplaying". There are very different kinds of "roleplaying" even among the "roleplayer community". Very few people enjoy all kinds of roleplaying out there. (I myself am more into the immersionist, world-exploring kind of RP than, say, the storywriting kind)
I don't have high hopes that you will get to a sensible definition by discussing it on kugutsumen.com. :-)
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