Nobody is good at eve online. You can create an illusion that you are good but in reality you are just as terrible as everyone else.Originally Posted by Aaron
Nobody is good at eve online. You can create an illusion that you are good but in reality you are just as terrible as everyone else.
I'm going to spoil the ending: M3 station currently being repped, local count down to 700, all either blue or desperately bouncing planets/safes. Begin again. Currently looting the field.
Here is a BR for the defense of M3-H2y from the viewpoint of a Guardian pilot in the assault hac fleet.
With widespread reports that the NC was cutting and running, I was wondering how many people would show up for this. At first attendence was looking dodgy, with the usual idiots joining NC Armor Hacs from fleetfinder and asking "is a drake alright??" but finally we got a decent looking fleet with about 120ish ships.
At 19:45 we bridged to M3-H2Y. After warping around planets a bit and setting up chains and ECCM, we got a few more reinforcements and ended up with a 220+ fleet of ahax with 40 logis. At 21:00 local was at 840, almost all friendly, with a full drake fleet and another misc. shield fleet, as well as a BS fleet. We started to hear word that DRF had about 500 dudes forming up and had intentions of using Scaps.
Finally the russians bridged in at 22:10 and local jumped to 1370. Our fleet warped to the cyno and landed in the midst of a gigantic blob of maelstroms. WHile I was able to lock targets just fine, modules were taking minutes to activate, if they activated at all. The Maelstrom blob wasn't looking like they loaded at all however, and after 10 minutes we still only had 3 people broadcast for reps (who were all full shields). Just for shits I activated reps on one of them and it took 8 minutes for one rep cycle. At this time there were reports of PL and/or IRC in LXQ trying to cut off any reinforcement fleets but might have been only rumors.
Since the start of the fight, Iliziana in an abaddon was our primary and 30 minutes after the start of the engagement he hit armor! Cries of joy were heard on TS. At the same time my friend in a drake reported their fleet had killed their first ship, a Raven. Iliziana was reported dead at 22:50ish, so our 240+ ahax fleet was killing people at the blistering pace of 1 ship every 40 minutes. Only 500 more russians to go...
After the next kill (woo, 2 kills!) we then warped on top of another fleet. At first it was quite messy, with none of our modules activating and then half our fleet warped off from an old fleet warp. However we eventually managed to mostly get back to our anchor and cap chain went back up(not that it was needed). We still had not lost any ships at all that had broadcast.
Lag started to clear up and we began working through the primaries. A few people broadcast for armor but no one was ever in any danger. One bomber put some of us into shields but probably did more damage to the russian BS we were on top of at the time. He did manage to kill my drone that I had out though, what a jerk! Local dropped past 1k at 23:40 with capsules filling up my all_ships overview.
With pretty much all targets in range dead we warped to another group of BS. The ones nearby were dropped quickly. Local dropped to 770 and the fleet warped to the SBU where we killed some stragglers there and started shooting the SBU. Fight was over with us not losing a single ship (though other fleets did have losses). Station was reported fully repped at this point.
tldr: NC showed up firstest with the mostest and DRF pretty much blackscreened. Total numbers at peak seemed to be 800ish NC vs 500ish DRF.
It is more fun to shoot people who are worse than you, while listening to their tears and poasting about it on forums. If you actually have to take it seriously you might just have to pay attention and then what if you see some one else poasting about your OWN tears
whelp
Nice one. And yeah, Iliziana, never forget! (No, JET HEART!) You missed out on the karaoke-break while we waited for the fight to begin though.
Props to RUS for bringing it despite the numeric disadvantage.
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
Lol. All due respect, GTFO.
I was thinking of the ridiculous nature of farm subsidies (paying farmers NOT to grow food when there's starving ppl in the country) as I mused about PL. It's quite a racket and it's not so called PVP Prowess that allows them to do this. So, what is it then?
Original Tri DID fight PL back in the day, on a daily basis.
I think even TRI mk3 and PL had a pretty solid cap slugfest before PL/CH/Ev0ke attacked NC in PB last year. Close but I think TRI was ahead, might erring totally though as well, too long ago.
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
If the NC shows up to fight PL with a thousand dudes, don't look to the east on the third day expecting us to ride in with some super dee duper new tactic that annhilates them.
Unless they all blackscreen on jumpin, we've yet to find a strategy that allows us to overcome the scaling of blob vs tactics that occurs with such numbers.
However, if you like BC2, you might find a host of us on that in the meantime
a) All 0.0 players meta. We can have this debate, but I think it's settled. Some do it better.So, what is it then?
b) Not all 0.0 players utilize asymmetrical warfare. This ties in with meta gaming, but knowing something is different from being able to leverage it against an opponent.
c) Not all 0.0 players are flexible. They eschew situation awareness in place of rigid fleet dogmas. They are slow to change standings, ideas, fittings, or tactics. The lack of fluidity makes them vulnerable to A and B.
d) A pretty face and the right PR can get you far in life even if the curtains don't match the drapes.
But be honest. You knew the answers already. It's just easy and fun to beat up on the popular kid. I'm not claiming moral superiority. I think we've all done that. Myself included. I'd guess it's natural. What makes it easier for me to avoid is that PL doesn't often claim moral superiority either. Just business and a contract. There's something to respect in that...even if and when they are shooting me personally.
Wait, what happened? Great news like Cobra being fired doesn't filter down to people like me very often.
props to CCP for not boosting m3-h, specifically
Krutoj CSM ALT 2011
[SPOILER=Krutoj the Destroyer][IMG]http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/2917/krut.jpg[/IMG][/SPOILER]
Our side asked too.
No we didn't lawlOur side asked too.
your side is of no concern, we had enough petitions from RUS side, my only question is, whats the point?Our side asked too.
Krutoj CSM ALT 2011
[SPOILER=Krutoj the Destroyer][IMG]http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/2917/krut.jpg[/IMG][/SPOILER]
You made sure to petition on bot accounts rite?
Here's the BR I wrote for the Majesta forums. Doesn't intend to cover every detail perfectly, just give a bit of flavor from my perspective.
Also, that Raven someone mentioned "The shield fleet killed"? One of my corpmates was in the other shield fleet, and they'd primaried it too. Two nearly-full fleets shot that thing for the better part of an hour. Only 151 made it on the mail.
--------
Well that was fun.
We put 800+ in system. Most fleets were enroute or in system by 2030, with most in system by 2100, and a virtually endless series of train fleets following up. Thanks to the guys who stepped up to run the trains.
I wasn't sure I was going to be able to stick it out for the whole op so I grabbed a covops, thinking I could at least be on CC as eyes and maybe a prober for the other FCs. I'm mostly over my cold though so it turned out not to be an issue (and I should be back to FCing more consistently now).
I joined one of the Drake fleets that left LS-JEP about 2030.
Word was the DRF guys were forming up on Titans in jump range. They had a decent number of bombers in system, presumably with cynos, and an Onyx chilling at their POS at 4-1. We had their POS bubbled completely. Their numbers kept rising, first 300, then 500 gets reported but they're starting to level off.
The station was going to become vulnerable at about 2330. It's now about 2130, T-Minus 2 hours.
Lights on. 4+ cynos light on their tower. "Hostile cyno, hostile cyno, 4-1 POS". The order is to warp to the cynos and lay into them as they're loading. Some fleets warp to different points, some different cynos. The bubbles pull-in some, block others, while others still use on-grid warpins effectively.
Just about the time we get everyone on grid, local breaks 1300, and everything grinds to a halt.
The next hour is spent languishing in the lag. Our fleet at one point tries to snag some of their warpoffs at a planet, but actions are taking around 10 minutes to execute, which confuses people (including the FC) pretty badly as you'll end up with several navigation commands in the queue at once. Go to do one thing, and the thing you forgot you ordered 10 minutes ago happens instead.
Eventually our first FC disconnects entirely. Another picks it up for a while but the lag prevents anything productive from happening before he desyncs into uselessness. Aside from recovering from a few fleet warps I've been sitting perfectly still in my covops, doing nothing. Well, I tried to recover the sisters probes I'd launched just before they jumped in, but they timed out without a chance to respond.
I've been watching the monitor's network tab (ctrl-alt-shift-m). When it hits zero outstanding calls my perspective of the battlefield is just-about as current as can be, and I've been keeping it there. So I step up and start directing the fleet in a rather odd way. It doesn't matter that I can't check ranges, or can't lock targets from where I am. The previous FCs were so out of sync with things they ended up chasing illusions when trying to use the normal fleet proceedures.
I try something a little different. I pick someone who is relatively in the thick of things and declare them the anchor. "Everyone either orbit or warp to N. Order it once, and wait". "In the mean while, lock up all the targets nearest to you. Select the most damaged one, and shoot at it. If none are damaged, just pick one."
That order stood for the next hour.
Our fleet was initially very spread out from the earlier warps and failed warps so my weird order meant they were self-organizing their own primaries, as well as sharing primaries with other fleets they were near. It would have been an absolutely terrible order under normal circumstances, but in this case it appeared to be working.
One at a time, people died, disconnected, or gave up and logged. More of them than us.
As our fleet re-grouped the primaries started overlapping more and more, and we killed them quicker and quicker. We cleared out our area and started moving to engage more blobs of enemies as the friendly fleets did the same.
Eventually enough people had died that the lag started to let up and I dared an Advanced Fleet Maneuver™, and bounced us off my covops position to hit one of the remaining clusters of enemies.
And then the only hostiles on grid were just ghosts, invulnerable ships that were already dead and would disappear soon. Local was at about 700. The hostiles all dead. It was now about 2400 and the station had been out for a half hour.
We had won.
Everyone to the SBU for a victory bash! I made a point to aggro the damn SBU and get my kill-mail credit for the op =)
Excellent work everyone. I'm not sure about the other fleets but, at least in mine, everyone showed a great amount of patience during the lag. As terrible as the lag was, most seemed to still enjoy the fight (I did).
We're bringing 2000 dudes, btw.If the NC shows up to fight PL with a thousand dudes, don't look to the east on the third day expecting us to ride in with some super dee duper new tactic that annhilates them.
Unless they all blackscreen on jumpin, we've yet to find a strategy that allows us to overcome the scaling of blob vs tactics that occurs with such numbers.
However, if you like BC2, you might find a host of us on that in the meantime
Think one of the main reasons why NC won this one was because lag disabled bombers and they chickened out with capitals. Main reason why DRF won few fights was the very good bombing and capitals support. Without bombers and fighter support I think NC can win even when slightly outnumbered. Bombers simply dont work in lag (bombs travel for 200km before they assplode) and fielding supers would probably make another 300 NC to X up.
Also about PL. They dont claim moral superiority very often, but they their posters sure do present them like them being coolest, bestest players of eve. I think try not to do it, but they feel their superiority so much, so strong, that it pours out of them with every post they make. Havent seen any PL battlereport from north that doesnt have comments LIKE "80 proud PL warriors against 200 NC scrubs". Yes, their FCs are good and they also whats more important they have alot of pilots with good individual piloting skills. But the main reason they win fights 80 vs 200 is because the 80 people PL gang usually has more skill points than 200 people NC gang. Also their 80 man fleet often cost more than 200 ships from NC.
The DRF bombers came very, very close to annihilating one of our shield fleets before they reached M3.
They are doing it to deliberately get a rise out of people.snip PL
There's one more factor, and that's experience. A large alliance might have periods with not many strategic ops and there will be lots of (the more casual) people who only make a subset of those. All the small elite alliances will try to keep themselves busy (to avoid players getting bored) and have a substantial proportion of people who play so much Eve they attend a lot of these. End result is they have a lot more chance to improve both individually and as a fleet.
That's pretty much the same in every MMO, it's not Eve specific. The more elite groups have extremely high activity with as low numbers as they can manage so that each person is experienced, familiar with the tactics they employ and very well geared. And these groups by competing for status also tend to attract people who want that gameplay experience.
Is my posting appropriatly smug? I do what I can, but I tend to be a realist.
No, it's because the 80 PL dudes are able to focus fire and listen to their FC while NC lemmings do bomber-friendly group-hugs at 0 speed and put each gun/launcher on a different target to whore as many KM's as possible.
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
PL moved into H-PA when Tri were living there in mid 07. We kept an above 50% efficiency on the killboard, however, it was never an equal fight as PL numbered little over 400 and Tri must of been pushing double that or nearer 1k. Thus we were outnumbered in euro timezone, but managed to outnumber them in US, so no major fights went down, just ganks and guerilla kills.
Are you telling me that's not how you are supposed to fight? I love group hugs
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/hChYV.png[/IMG]
"Every rifter counts friend" - VR
I'm merely pointing out the cultural differences of warfare. :PAre you telling me that's not how you are supposed to fight? I love group hugs
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
NC so called propoganda war is so pathetic as they cant control their own propaganda and members. I thought clowns were bad, but NC muppet show went to a whole new level.
So lets summerise something right. NC blobs up the system 2-3 hours before it comes out of reinforce, the pathetic sheep (pets) wait patiently in promise of good fights within every 30m while noticing that they cant click a module. Nevertheless, 3 hours pass by, RUS jumps in hoping CCP boosted the system unlike the previous 20 times, sure as fuck they didnt. 10 people load grid the rest sit and wait before logging off one by one and heading off to bed. NC spends the next 3 hours whining about lag on forums and listening to crappy as fuck FCing by smughinata and eardrum infestation JuniorSVK.
I have to say, I thought only Atlas had a bunch of dumb faggots who would spend 5-6 hours doing almost nothing in game they are paying for, playing dress up for a fake victory parade and furiously wanking over their greatness. Oh and some more lag whining afterwards.
See Czech Lion, thats how you write a BR ;d
Krutoj CSM ALT 2011
[SPOILER=Krutoj the Destroyer][IMG]http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/2917/krut.jpg[/IMG][/SPOILER]
Holy shitposting batman, this makes my eyes bleed. It's bad even by NC standards. And with "standards" I mean no standards.
Wow, in 24 hours you went from basically declaring victory over the NC to this whining post? You need to get your own propaganda under control brosef.
its a BR you dumb faggots
Krutoj CSM ALT 2011
[SPOILER=Krutoj the Destroyer][IMG]http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/2917/krut.jpg[/IMG][/SPOILER]
It's pretty good BR
I thought yall were only like 10 people with a few dozen bot accounts each for "RAVEN/DRAKE/SCARRIER ARMIE"?
Krutoj, I thought you were a reasonable guy, but you've kind of been turning into a sperglord since this campaign started, and that makes me sad. I would like to have a convo with you so that we can establish more pleasant diplomatic relations, if you'd be cool with that.
Does this mean the Solar Legion of Red Noise Christmas in Kalevala is cancelled?
Wow, hey now. There's no need to insult us that much.
Oooh you have no idea how wrong you are. Seriously, we have people warping to wrong gates (or even hostile poses in carriers), jumping too early, shooting completely wrong targets, not following primaries and being generally bad. I doubt theres actually corp / alliance in eve that doesnt do that.
He's speaking about GK, NESW is pretty much perfect in everyway.
yeah, if NESW were a NC corp (which it is).
lol you sound as mad as i am always. welcome to the darkside.
Boosh.
Ceterum censeo -A- esse delendam
[QUOTE=Don Peyote;435913]velonad is p good h ats
i mnea i love you more an yevrerying but velongad is the hnowreigan of my heart always
happy nwe yar[/QUOTE]
fixd!
Why would anyone join z0r? I mean what, seriously, goes through peoples minds when they see oshits alt industrial corp and thinks 'Yeah, that looks like a great choice.'. :iiam:
The only reason you're not winning this is you keep way to many resources for yourself. Throw more supers at pl!!!! Some of your alliance members don't feel like slaves yet
So is NC retreating or not? I am confused.
Seeing AJ Krutoj complaining about numbers has relieved my need for comedy for the week.
Someone sounds mad. Krutoj are you mad? I bet your glad you alarm clocked and told your dudes to take today off now aren't you. Well your recapturing will need another 3 alarm clocks per station so yeh.
PS-Confirming the NC failed because again we got to the system and had patience to wait for our uber opponents to jump into us, like every other station we have either defended or captured in your space.
Personally, I think NC is retreating. I suspect the people with the ships and money left weeks ago. I've heard from just about everyone I know in NC that something odd (or not odd really in light of Phreeze prognostications) is going on with MM. That's prolly evidenced by the above referenced campaign FC's being replaced and PL's apparent intel that NC main fc's are burned out on the DRF war. I've personally seen just a ridiculous amount of caps leaving the ER area and the high sec entries. None appeared to be coming back, but then again they could have been leaving on repping ops.So is NC retreating or not? I am confused.
Local in LXQ was down last night, but still high enough that I'm not gonna hang out and take sample sets. They apparently had the numbers in M3 to save their station. So some folks either aren't getting the message or they are the 'bitter end' types who were promised space in any expansion.
Someone who hangs out in northern lowsec could prolly verify if there's a bunch of caps moving through or parking in that area. I'm sure if you live there you know where they stage outta. To me that'd be the real evidence.
I suspect there's much QQ'ing over the moon goo. Some people really need that 3rd or 4th mom apparently.
Both MM and Razor are moving back to venal, I'll let someone else leak the razor retreat order.
Since Majesta only "deployed" to the other end of Vale, no order for withdrawal has come from on high.
With that said, local in ls-jep has on average dropped and local in northern Vale systems has increased over the past few days. I personally expect the "run for the hills of tribute!" general command from RAWR soonish, leaving MAGE to defend kalevala from krutoj's hoards of arty abbadons and nyx's on their own.
And yeah, I dont think anything of importance has been done or even thought about since cobra was fired/left/did something else. Was all his brain child as far as I was told, and when he left no one else felt like doing shit. Meh I got a few good fights out of it all and got blue balled/blown up a few times so what do I care?
The bot sperg is tiring and when CCP fails to reinforce a node, everyone loses
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