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Thread: [DEVBLOG] The Nation strikes back

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    Default [DEVBLOG] The Nation strikes back

    It is another routine day in your friendly New Eden neighborhood: some capsuleers are gazing at the exciting, humming glow of strip miners with a blank, almost lifeless stare; others are playing carousels with their ships inside stations; the rest are merrily shooting each other in the face while exchanging strange remarks about their sisters in local chat.

    Suddenly, all this buzzing activity comes to a stop. Something feels amiss, like a half-eaten Roquefort cheese left too long on the kitchen table. Blockades appear on star gates, asteroid belts are invaded, and even the ambient nebula light has shifts to a pernicious shade. For those inside stations, sirens go off while a constellation wide emergency is declared: an incursion has begun.



    We brake for nobody

    Incursions may happen anywhere, at any time, from null-sec alliance space to high-sec travel routes. The Sansha's Nation is seriously pissed and doesn't care about politics; trust us, you would be quite mad as well if you were stuck living with giant spikes on your head ‘n' shoulders.

    Active incursions will bring a variety of disruptive changes that will greatly impact player activities; first off, celestial pirate NPCs you would normally encounter at star gates and asteroid belts will be replaced by new ones tied with the incursion, and they will demonstrate updated attributes and Sleeper-like AI. Note, however, that this will not affect CONCORD, or the empire navies, even if an incursion will suppress custom NPCs.

    In addition, systems invaded by Sanshas will receive certain system wide effects that affect all players inside them:

    · Reduction of all shield/armor resistances

    · Reduction of turret, missile, drone and smartbomb damage

    · Jamming of cynosural fields throughout the system

    · Reduction of 50% on all NPC bounties

    The purpose of such modifications is to provide a dynamic, opportunity-rich environment that breaks the routine and offers new possibilities. Capital ships won't be able to jump in low and null-security space, leveling the fields between small corporations and organized alliances; gate camps discourage players to block traffic there, and instead motivate them to look for prey inside the incursion sites themselves, where they also can be shot by the NPCs; NPC bounty reductions provides an incentive for players to gather arms, team up, and face the threat.



    Gone shootin'

    Countering the Sansha offensive and thus removing the negative effects is achieved through the control of influence. It reduces the penalties to ship resistances, damage and when sufficient influence is achieved, the final boss will appear.

    Influence is gained by completing sites. Sites are sorted into three levels, which dictate the magnitude of the Sansha strike force occupying the system they are in:

    · Vanguard: weakest occupation, aimed for small player groups of 5-10.

    · Assault: moderate difficulty, designed for 10-20 pilots per site.

    · Headquarter: highest challenge, 20-40 players recommended.



    There is also one system per incursion designated as a "staging area," aimed for new players and designed as the main place for pilots to gather up before heading into the more difficult areas. This will be shown in the in-flight UI and star map.

    So what's the point in completing more difficult sites? Not only do they give more rewards, but also net more influence, which is the key at successfully repelling the invasion, since Sansha forces will continuously attempt to push influence downwards overtime. Thus, incursions always are an ongoing struggle, a fluctuating frontline that needs to be maintained because its collapse resets system effects back to their highest values.

    Below are some screenshots of the new incursion in-flight and journal tools. Please note this is still work in progress, as our UI developers are relentlessly fine-tuning on it as we speak:



    The in-flight profile appears in incursion infested systems, and displays Sansha (red) versus player (blue) influence through the main gauge. The system occupation level is indicated by the bronze/silver/gold Sansha tags, while system effects are displayed on the bottom part. UI elements can be hovered over with the mouse for more information.



    The journal report is aimed to locate active incursions and facilitate grouping. It shows which original faction/alliance controls the affected area, the exact infested constellation/staging system location, time remaining before expiration and distance in jumps to the affected systems. It also provides map filters to identify corporation members, contacts with positive standings and display loyalty points earned and that may be granted if the final boss is defeated.



    Show me the money

    Participation in incursions grants rewards, of course. Completing sites will secure ISK and CONCORD loyalty points, the latter actually paid out only when an incursion has been successfully repelled by the destruction of its final boss (thus making it particularly important). CONCORD only pays for a job that's finished, private.

    Please also note that, - besides the fact that attempting to solo an incursion is a very, very bad idea - the rewards themselves are designed for groups and based on site objectives. The NPCs themselves have no bounty, no loot, and very little salvage as we wanted players to focus on the actual encounters. Site rewards are paid as follows:

    · To actual combat ships: no pods, shuttles or cloaked vessels

    · To players who are inside the site when it is completed

    · To players in the fleet that participated the most in the site in question; if there is more than one fleet in a site, others won't be paid. CONCORD only rewards the most effective capsuleers. If you are not ready to face the competition, we recommend you either merge your fleets together, or spread out to other unchecked sites.

    · Depending on the player numbers in the most contributing fleet. A ratio is calculated from the total number of active fleet players in the site and how many players this site is from. The closer, the better.

    ISK and loyalty points granted per site will be made apparent in the journal so players know what to expect and can make rational decisions before engaging themselves in the content.



    Here is an example of the mechanics explained above; site briefing and main objectives are listed under the encounters tab, while the reward is affected by a ratio depending on player count and security status location.

    Loyalty points gained in incursions can be spent to buy named capital module blueprint copies and new implant variations from any CONCORD store. Alternatively, they can also be changed into any empire corporation loyalty point, at a certain exchange rate. Pirate corporations are excluded, however.

    Finally, the last Sansha boss in each incursion will also drop Sansha sub-capital ship blueprint copies as well as some other goodies. In low-security space (and only there), there will also be a chance of receiving a blueprint copy of the boss ship type itself, the Sansha supercarrier.



    Adding more sand in the box, one grain at a time


    Of course, all of the above is absolutely open for anybody to participate. No matter where or when an incursion occurs, there will be no player number restrictions, (although there are some mandated ship class requirements on certain sites).

    That means you will be totally free to engage each other at will in circumstances that would normally allow it, or to tackle an incursion as you see fit. Be careful however, as NPCs do not know discrimination: they most likely will change targets to any newcomers, so plunder these sites for juicy player targets at your own risk.

    Speaking of the NPCs, while we adopted a "wolf pack" approach for the Sleepers in Apocrypha, we chose to create very specialized units for this feature, inspired from players setups. We also improved the Sleeper AI to match their new capabilities. As such you will face NPC equivalent of logistics, stealth bombers, remote spider-repairing battleships, interceptors, command ships, EW platforms, and more.



    So be prepared: Incursions are full war assaults, treat them as such.

    - CCP Ytterbium

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    This... actually sounds kinda cool.
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    Don't stop posting! RansomList's Avatar
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    So, CCP are finally bringing 'sleeper' AI to Empire. I'm not happy about this being in Empire AT ALL unless Sanshas NPC's start gatecamping like they do in 0.0. Or the Snashas like to target high population highsec systems, in other words they gatecrash Missionrunner hubs and gank peoples isk/hr.

    Its a real shame we cant side WITH the Sanshas.

    Also, if only the boss drops any loot worth having....well, hello ninja looting and epic carebear rage

    I'd say that this is a stealth lowsec buff but the fact that everyone knows there is an incursion in a system means that system will be a deathtrap and there wont be any mor etargets in Lowsec than there are currently.
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    I'm still torn, but it's leaning towards this just being World of EVEcraft raiding, with all the shit that comes as a bonus.

    the Sansha supercarrier
    They no longer refer to this as a mothership, interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RansomList View Post
    Its a real shame we cant side WITH the Sanshas.
    Some RP players do during the live events, sanctioned by CCP guys running them. As for during incursion:

    Quote Originally Posted by CCP Dropbear
    Yeah, fair. Our apologies for the slow reply. It's been a difficult thread to reply to though, mostly due to shifting sands behind the scenes; and us not wanting to promise something that might not make it through, etc.

    Over the next week or so, once plans solidify, we'll do our best to get you guys some more information regarding this aspect of Incursion.

    Regardless of all that, though, something should be stressed. The idea of increasing the scope of player influence in Incursion isn't in any way an afterthought, but it is an "after-process". We're focused on building a foundation first, before we consider building in features that might undermine that foundation from the other side. More simply, we want to build the thesis, before we built the antithesis.

    It might seem intuitive to build them both at the same time, but experience tells us that sequential development works way better in this case, and in building up the Incursion system we've developed much clearer ideas about how it could be deepened through more competitive elements.

    Lastly, I want to also stress I'm just talking about broadening the scope of what is already there. Pro-Sansha players can already run interference, and there are already ways for players to drive things and influence the Incursion. We're talking about broadening that here, instead of whether we'll have it or not. That much is already confirmed.

    So, yeah, we're listening, we're thinking of the same things, we want to deliver awesomesauce, and we'll endeavour to keep you guys better updated about this stuff in the future.
    So if not now, possibly later.

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    If you can in fact side with the Sanshas as suggested above, things might get more interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RansomList View Post
    I'd say that this is a stealth lowsec buff but the fact that everyone knows there is an incursion in a system means that system will be a deathtrap and there wont be any mor etargets in Lowsec than there are currently.
    I agree with the first bit and TBH I have no problem with it, and think its actually long overdue. I disagree with the second part - and I reckon it will increase lowsec traffic of both large grouping of carebears and the pirates hunting them. That is ofc provided that the empire dwellers don't get the shit beaten out of them so badly they lose the stomach for it.

    Time will tell I guess.

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    Nice been waiting for raiding in eve wonder what type of purples will drop.

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    gonna guess that the first supercarrier bp that is attempted to be built will be stolen by the builder.

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    I disagree with the second part - and I reckon it will increase lowsec traffic of both large grouping of carebears and the pirates hunting them. That is ofc provided that the empire dwellers don't get the shit beaten out of them so badly they lose the stomach for it.
    Give it a few weeks and the only people running the lowsec MOM dropping sites will be organized 0.0 groups that practically farm them and pirate alliances/corps native to Lowsec that use them as bait.

    Only a tiny minority of actual Highsec corps have the organization and numbers to do one of these lowsec sites. I'm betting practically none of them have the will to try and beat back persistent piracy before, during and after doing one of these lowsec incursions.

    That is unless CCP have included the immersion breaking bullshit that is NPC's prioritizing players intent on PVP.

    gonna guess that the first supercarrier bp that is attempted to be built will be stolen by the builder.
    No bet
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    Nice looks good, if they hit a high-sec mission running system hopefully its possible to keep ganking the missioners to keep the index down and let the incursion disrupt regular missioning for a week or however long the incursion lasts

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    I am planning on hanging around in my cov-ops to try and steal as many of these BPC's as I can.

    I doubt I am the only one, it just surprises me that they have implemented a full influence system here for handing out LP from the sites and have not worked this system into who ends up with the loot. Of course the servers do seem to be powered by carebear tears so maybe this is an intentional design decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RansomList View Post
    Give it a few weeks and the only people running the lowsec MOM dropping sites will be organized 0.0 groups that practically farm them and pirate alliances/corps native to Lowsec that use them as bait.

    Only a tiny minority of actual Highsec corps have the organization and numbers to do one of these lowsec sites. I'm betting practically none of them have the will to try and beat back persistent piracy before, during and after doing one of these lowsec incursions.
    This is my feeling as well. Piracy is completely skewed in EVE because the "prey" aren't gazelles that know how to escape the lion, they are milk-cows raised on grazing without thought. Although it might be interesting seeing the first few ganks that go gloriously wrong when they kill off too many carebears in the most difficult site and get overwhelmed by the rats.

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    I think it sounds like a good expansion overall, though I would also like to see an option to side with the Sanshas.

    It seems that some 0.0 dwellers in particular are unhappy about this though, as it would seem to distract from fighting "real" people in space they're paying for, etc. The fact that a system is cynojammed (and jump bridges disabled) during these incursions seems cool and could prove interesting though.

    It's a bit of a change of pace from how PvErs always whine about being forced into PvP. Now it's kind of the other way around.

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    CCP Ytterbium
    Posted - 2010.11.10 20:59:00

    To address some good concerns:

    Incursions and freezing mission activities: we prefer to encourage capsuleers to make hard decisions instead of removing missions and professions when incursions happen. By reducing NPC bounty rewards while decreasing player ship effectiveness as a whole, we create a harsh situation that needs to be dealt with - should I move to another system, stay here with increased odds, or team up with others to counter the Sansha invasion?

    NPC and damage/resistance reduction: NPCs are not affected by incursion system effects, no matter if they are regular NPCs or the new Sansha ones.

    Incursions and Sansha infested space: they will not appear in Stain, which is their headquarters region.

    Sansha supercarrier: we need to apologize for the miscommunication about this ship class name, which created some confusion here. The ship players will be able to build from the blueprint copy is a faction version of a regular supercarrier, not a new ship class.

    Site rewards: the ISK/LP numbers shown on the dev blog encounter report are per individual, not split up by fleet size. Thus, if your fleet number has a player count of 20, you would receive 25m ISK and 6k LP each.
    CCP Soundwave
    Posted - 2010.11.11 00:09:00

    Hey guys

    Thanks for all the feedback. Let me just delve into two issues here:

    Regarding the concern about lack of reward:

    The screenshot may not show it, but these sites will be very rewarding on the isk/hour scale. The fact that it’s dynamic (you can’t farm it forever) allows us to crank it up to a pretty awesome level. We’ve been doing public playtests of these sites on sisi and will very likely continue to do so, which means you can come check them out for yourselves. But yeah, tl;dr is that if you run these, you won’t be poor for long.

    Regarding wanting to contribute:

    I’m not a big fan on instances or “artificial” game environments, where you can opt out. Incursions are made in a manner that they’re a part of the landscape and part of the living, breathing universe EVE is. There is no instant dungeon finder here; there is no flagging to participate, this is the world you’re in and there is no promise or guarantee that it’s friendly. Just like you can get killed in pretty much all areas of space by players, get locked out of your station in 0.0 or wardecced, you’ll also run into areas under Sansha siege. When that happens, you can chose to fight back (and make a good chunk of cash on the way), or flee the area till the siege is over. That’s EVE, it’s not always a very nice place.

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    The highsec sites are going to need tweaking because they will become hilariously over populated.
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    Ok boys, get those Armageddons ready, time for some Amarr RRBS love.
    Stealth Amarr Boost, I called it first!!!

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    It won't attract empire people to low-sec for the same reason as level 5 missions. They'll never make it lucrative enough that it justifies the risk of losing an expensive PvE fitted ship. Especially given that attackers can interfere when you are already engaged with enough NPC mobs to make your demise nearly certain. It might well attract large gangs of 0.0 pilots to low-sec which could be interesting.

    This stuff also needs to be on the test server getting the tires kicked because intelligent players are going to find all sorts of ways to game the system. Apparently test is running the same version as live which is lame.

    I also wonder whether what we have here is PvE designed for a world in which most players are flying carriers. Which is possible and sort of sick.

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    As far as I am aware unless you have a carrier in the system when an incursion hits you won't be able to use one since the system becomes jammed. I suspect the faction warfare corps will benefit most from this since the larger ones have the resources and hopefully the knowhow to run them plus they are based in lowsec anyhow.

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    Two things that seem interesting as well - with the supposed "dynamic targeting" when Pirates/others warp in to engage in PvP it is possible that they will become targets of the NPCs. Sort of like the challenges that FW folks have been getting in those missions/complexes as well. So it's not a free farm ground, and if you are fitting for a PvP Gank fest you might not get out yourself, which will require some practice and planning.

    Since incursions appear to be at a constellation level, even if you have a carrier in one system it won't help much if it's not the "final battle" system, which really keeps this at the subcap level - might be interesting. Not sure about the stealth Amarr buff - tracking disruption affects all turrets, after all, and that's one of the incursion "effects"...

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    Ok, this is the part which i don't really get

    To ensure massive fleets don't streamroll all the sites, the rewards will be scaled based on the number of pilots involved in tackling an incursion. Use too many or too few pilots and you won't get much of an ISK reward.
    "Pilot involved" means: several fleets? or just pilots per fleet, i know the most important fleet will get the SP.


    being this the case, i can foresee some guys in dramiels or fast ships/ceptors "griefing" certain incursions by just warping in via acc-gate, shooting some random shit, then moving +200km inside the deadspace "just for the giggles".

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    if you have multiple fleets then only one fleet get the bounty/lp. You have to be in fleet and fighting to get bonus so no ninja claiming stuff. This is what i've read so it might change. I think we will see several fleets fighting each other before fighting the incursions to get the rewards.

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    Whats with Highsec being so close to 0.0 in terms of profitability? They only lose just under ~30% which makes for a 15m payout.

    Why would ANYONE run these in 0.0. Unless the faction BPC drops of subcaps are higher than low/high.

    This is starting to look like a damp squid that's just more PVE content for Empire dwellers to grind and 0.0 alliances to farm for BPC in lowsec.

    Also, these NPC's should not shoot -10's unless they are fired upon first. Its about damn time crims got some love in this game.

    if you have multiple fleets then only one fleet get the bounty/lp. You have to be in fleet and fighting to get bonus so no ninja claiming stuff. This is what i've read so it might change. I think we will see several fleets fighting each other before fighting the incursions to get the rewards.
    So what if a neutral not in fleet tries to loot the boss wreck before anyone in fleet arrives? Can they wipe whatever reward would have been dropped?

    Instanced rewards stinks like a week old fish
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    Quote Originally Posted by RansomList View Post
    Whats with Highsec being so close to 0.0 in terms of profitability? They only lose just under ~30% which makes for a 15m payout.

    Why would ANYONE run these in 0.0. Unless the faction BPC drops of subcaps are higher than low/high.
    So they can light cynos again and run sanctums /snicker

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eejit View Post
    So they can light cynos again and run sanctums /snicker
    So, CCP are forcing people to participate in group PVE.

    Shame that when they yell things about sandboxes they will never make an exception for forcing people to PVP.
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    "HTFU"

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    Really not applicable
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    Sadly, I think the most important reason to run these in 0.0 will be to get your JB network up and running again...

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    Quote Originally Posted by RansomList View Post
    So, CCP are forcing people to participate in group PVE.

    Shame that when they yell things about sandboxes they will never make an exception for forcing people to PVP.
    So null bears have to do something to maintain their obscene profits....you're breaking my heart.

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    Assuming each "incursion" is a constellation event - if it's a backwater, unvisited, or unpopular constellation (especially in 0.0) the damn things could last for eternity. Why be bothered to run the event if there is no jump bridge, station, or ihub in the systems affected? I see incursion failing within a few months because all the unfarmed 0.0 incursions occupying the available incursion slots.

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    lol this is actually cool sounding but would be awesome if incursions could also offline JB's or hamper their usage (increased lo, disabling, etc)

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    Then it needs to spread to other systems and get stronger so as to give a reason for people to not just ignore it

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    All shall be revealed in Jan 2011. Damn I love this game, never gets old.

  34. #34
    Inconstant Moon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Small Gang Bandit View Post
    Assuming each "incursion" is a constellation event - if it's a backwater, unvisited, or unpopular constellation (especially in 0.0) the damn things could last for eternity. Why be bothered to run the event if there is no jump bridge, station, or ihub in the systems affected? I see incursion failing within a few months because all the unfarmed 0.0 incursions occupying the available incursion slots.
    I'm pretty sure it was mentioned they are on a timer. So if not defeated they will eventually despawn and move to another system.

    The idea of non-consensual PvE, in that 0.0 alliances have to clear them even if they don't want the rewards is very Eve. Though since I believe the LP points buy named super-cap modules I don't expect them to last long in practice.

  35. #35
    The Alien Mind Small Gang Bandit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kireiina View Post
    I'm pretty sure it was mentioned they are on a timer. So if not defeated they will eventually despawn and move to another system.
    you are correct I just re-read that. So an alliance - or the RP'ers who are "with" sansha's nation - could actually try just camping outside an incursion and killing the inbounds.

  36. #36
    The Alien in Our Minds Nicky D's Avatar
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    I don't know, this whole idea seems like it could be really interesting and introduce variety between systems to system and even region to region.
    Underpopulated or undermaintained regions could be riddled with Sansha-cynojammed systems with dampened ship bonuses, requiring different tactics and probably different ship setups for invading players to fight with the locals.

    And yeah this Sansha Incursion stuff should be integrated with the defunct Faction Warfare stuff somehow.

  37. #37
    The Theory and Practice of Teleportation GreenDaemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RansomList View Post
    So, CCP are forcing people to participate in group PVE.

    Shame that when they yell things about sandboxes they will never make an exception for forcing people to PVP.
    Not really "forcing" but giving a major incentive.

    I ran a few of these on sisi right now, and there are a lot of incentives to run these:
    1. Dump people will get raped by these rats
      Essentily, these rats kick ass as it is right now. They neut to fuck, jam, damp, do a lot of dps, and can tank like a sonofabitch.

      The balance on sisi right now (20 members to run a Assualt system) is a very good balance, cause it was a well composed fleet of 20 that had a semi-difficult time.

      Also the gate rats lock quickly, and kick as much ass as the dungeon rats. They haven't scramed on gates yet, but i wouldn't be surprised

      Any 0.0 presence will want to clear an incursion to prevent its dumber of members from dieing terribly
    2. The isk / hr is far greater than a carrier running sanctums
      Proper fleet assembled (which stuff like RR BS, AHAC, Shield BC are good ones), you can each make 100m / hr or more (depending on faction drops)
    3. Could make living in a invaded area very annoying
      The system jamming, lower hp, camped gates, ect. makes a very good incentive to kick the fuckers out

  38. #38
    The Ethics of Madness Mira Z's Avatar
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    This sounds like it might make for interesting PVE, which, lets face it, would be a major step forward for EVE.

    Plus, if the incursion knocked out the JB network in a system like EC-P8R or HED-GP the tears would be epic. Sadly I suspect they might backtrack on this one...

  39. #39
    Waldorf Hratli Smirks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenDaemon View Post
    [*]The isk / hr is far greater than a carrier running sanctums
    Proper fleet assembled (which stuff like RR BS, AHAC, Shield BC are good ones), you can each make 100m / hr or more (depending on faction drops)
    [/LIST]
    When you say this you are talking about whatever the final boss drops right? Is this faction shit and the aforementioned bpc? Because the dev blog was pretty clear about the regular rats not dropping shit

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hratli Smirks View Post
    When you say this you are talking about whatever the final boss drops right? Is this faction shit and the aforementioned bpc? Because the dev blog was pretty clear about the regular rats not dropping shit
    AFAIK, the fleet that will get the most damage on the boss npc will get a hefty isk reward + chance for the bpc drops. Maybe even faction/plex items?

    The reward will scale depending on the number of people you bring vs the number of people shit was designed for. i.e. 40 people in a 20man raid will get fuckall each, and even combined won't make up for much. 10 people will probably(this is speculation) get more per person than 20 people, but 20 people will get the highest total reward. At least this is how I understood it.

    Also, this will make for awesome ~good fights~ if CCP pulls it off well. If anyone remembers Lineage 2, it was also a no instances, full pvp world. Every time a boss spawned, people would rape eachother at the entrance, and the winning team then got to fight the boss and collect the loot. It was awesome. Too bad the grind was unbearable.

  41. #41
    Crashlander Gyncognito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mira Z View Post
    Plus, if the incursion knocked out the JB network in a system like EC-P8R or HED-GP the tears would be epic. Sadly I suspect they might backtrack on this one...
    Imagine your alliance is fighting IT. It's the last timer of your home system. The fight has progressed, but you've lost ground over the weeks. You need a big victory here to not only keep moral, but save your capital system. Fleet logs in and forms up. The cap fleets are called for to log on into the staging system....think H-W all over again for you Max vets.

    Then...Wtf?! Sansha HQ just spawned. Our cap fleet is camped into lowsec by...NPC's. Opportunities missed. Forces not brought to bear. Battle is lost.

    Convenient, but a completely random npc event breaks to IT's favor causing the fail cascade of your alliance. Please don't think for a second that what Test pulled over those systems a few weeks ago wouldn't pale in comparison to the QQ that would infest the boards. People lost sov and that caused their coalition to fail. Hundreds of players are affected by an npc spawn that no amount of 'the logs show nothing' is going to make people believe that some ninja GM didn't manage to spawn.

    In a different game with a different history the player base might trust CCP. However, the recent Test incident has shown that we haven't forgotten the damage a single bad apple can do to an otherwise trust worthy relationship. Even if CCP can engineer a system that is 100% tamper proof, certain portions of the community are always going to believe otherwise. That unfortunately sours the relationship and keeps those old coals burning when they might otherwise have gone out.

    The unfortunately reality of this arrangement is that on a long enough timeline someone is going to loose a system or a titan over an RNG driven npc spawning event. I enjoy winning as much as the next guy, but this won't be a win. It'll be a proper RNG fucking and that's all I can think of when reading it.

  42. #42
    The Fourth Profession Carlton Banks's Avatar
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    It really wouldn't even matter if the victims in that situation thought a GM was involved or not. That a perfectly valid game feature (Sansha HQ spawn) could so entirely fuck another feature (PvP) is terribly bad game design. Of itself it's enough to cause a QQ-icane.

  43. #43
    Crashlander Gyncognito's Avatar
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    I agree.

    I understand it's entirely well meaning. PVE in eve is a major complaint for many players. It needs a revamp. And TBH, this really sounds like something that should affect 0.0. You'd expect them to show up in the wilds first and work their way in. However, even if they restricted the incursions to npc 0.0 or low sec the potential to affect major outcomes is to just great. Loosing your cap fleet to black screens is bad enough. What happens when people start loosing space to rats...

  44. #44
    Statler MpozoY's Avatar
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    Maybe they should just give a petition option similar to reinforcing a system but instead it's basically "We're fighting here, please keep your gay scripted roleplaying shit clear for a couple of days, kthx" - considering how fucking nobody is going to believe these things are 100% random, CCP might be cool with temporarily opting out rather than facing the shitstorm from their scripts fucking up a sov battle.

    That being said, unless the system is ass-broken or they implement mass-sensitive gates or some shit, in most cases you'd just take your 0.0 PvP fleet, paste the sansha real fast with no regard at all for reward and get on with life. I'm not seeing any incursion up to and including the supercap that's going to hold up against 300 Drakes.

  45. #45
    Inconstant Moon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hratli Smirks View Post
    When you say this you are talking about whatever the final boss drops right? Is this faction shit and the aforementioned bpc? Because the dev blog was pretty clear about the regular rats not dropping shit
    Clearing a site gives you straight up isk. On top of that, you get LP held in some holding tank until the whole constellation incursion is cleared. The fifteen minute site I did in an Assault gave 45M, straight in wallet. You could easily handle 2 or 3 sites an hour with 5 HACs and 2 logis. Do the math.

    I'm definitely against the idea of these incursions affecting our actual sov wars. PvE content is good, anything to replace the grind of isking up between major battles is a major plus, but not at the cost of a self-determining 0.0. I'd be all for this being a boost to NPC 0.0 and lowsec; but 0.0 frankly could do without. Or perhaps a lite version which would help with the issue of major nullsec alliances being able to farm the content in the safety of their backyard.

  46. #46
    Inconstant Moon
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    I, for one, see nothing wrong with these incursion things affect sov wars. There's just as big a chance it'll affect your enemy as there is of it affecting you, and it'll add another element that alliances have to watch out for. I see nothing wrong with a more dynamic and unpredictable nullsec.
    Caeleste naves interretis gravissimas sunt

  47. #47
    Crashlander Gyncognito's Avatar
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    There's just as big a chance it'll affect your enemy as there is of it affecting you
    I'm pretty sure you could have said the same thing about t2 bpo lotteries...once...when we were all young and naive. Now, we know better. There is no pure chance in Eve that isn't subject to the flawed whims of humans. Therein lies the danger.

    This is 0.0. This is PvP. WE are the gate camps. WE are the incursions. That's what Eve is about out here. The people are the enemy and not some mindless RNG. If you wanted that you'd be on some other forum reading about some other game.

    If they removed the cyno jammed and gate camp components I might be tempted to rethink. As long as my pvp players have a way to totally op outta this pve then I'd be ok with it. Let the bears and the isk 'recovery' crew have at it. The concept is solid and the game needs the overhaul. It's the implementation that I feel is very flawed.

  48. #48
    Inconstant Moon
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    Are you suggesting that CCP will spawn incursions in such a manner as to provide an advantage? Doubtful. While corruption amongst CCP certainly exists, I don't think it's anywhere near as widespread as it's often made out to be.

    The benefit of incursions is not to create some other adversary, but to make these existing conflicts more interesting. By adding in another dimension to these conflicts, they automatically become more interesting. And if we get some epic lulz from people whining over losing their space pixels due to NPC's, so much the better.
    Caeleste naves interretis gravissimas sunt

  49. #49
    God is dead. They found his carcass in 2019.. Wusti's Avatar
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    Gynco - you over dramatise the impact quite substantially - are you a closet drama queen?

  50. #50
    Don't stop posting! RansomList's Avatar
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    Reading test server feedback it looks like the sites wont be nearly profitable enough, esp lowsec ones where you are GUARANTEED pirates will turn up.

    As for the 0.0 ones i am going to love bombing the RR huddle with void bombs and watching the spidertank collapse. The NPC's can melt trimarked BS in short order.

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