'they raping everybody here'
'they raping everybody here'
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
I'm really rather proud of that one.Originally Posted by smg77
It's not in build
ruh roh
deja vu, I swear thats been posted already.
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
please god don't let them into tribute
I just want to see them land somewhere so I can laugh at them more.
It has been posted again, but i highlighted the part which is particularly important... definately when some say "there is no supercap in build"
Well yes of that whole evemail full of bullshit that is the one shining nugget of Truth
So has anyone found the new cap channel password?
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
Seems like they finally got smart and realized theres a allowance option to set to alliance only.So has anyone found the new cap channel password?
OWN getting smart… That have to be a troll. All the smart people from OWN are in TEST now.
there is one on and cooking right now bout 7 days left on it go to fo8 and scan or look at plant 6 moon 17 if you want its there
Magic 8 ball, will the babby Titan be aborted?
Come on Goonies, give in the the dark side.
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
Seven days is seven days. No time off for good behavior. Also, there has been no good behavior.
What's better than shooting blues? Aborting blue fetuses.
It would be fascinating to see how they are spinning this as a "victory" or result of them taking the honorable high ground to their membership. Likewise why the membership of the alliance would buy into it. I also fully expect the space they get to live in isn't going to be nearly as nice as the space they have and they'll be pestering the NC on that basis while sending a token force to get on KMs. I expect the next time they make the news is when the NC evicts them.
well you see GOON are broke and are making a blatant moongrab from stalwart NC member OWN Alliance. The NC, who sadly can't really interfere with the nefarious GOON administration of Deklein due to NC constitutional bylaws, have nevertheless granted OWN Alliance a fiefdom and place of refuge in Tribute (which is better than being in boring old Deklein with A-Hole GOON and TEST) because Morsus Mihi loves them like Mittens loves strapons.
So there's your positive spin
where does Fatal Ascension fall in Dek co. They are not fighting with NC in drone but helping goons to secure Dek. Are they becoming part of Dek Co or its just mutual friendship to get cloud ring?
I think the Fade/Pure Blind guys tend to fall under the DC umbrella with WiDOT. Not sure if we're crossposting ops but they have access to in-game ops/bullshit channels, and we're obviously traipsing through their space to shoot dudes on the other side anyway.
My impression is that the Deklein Coalition and the NC Pure Blind Shortbus Crew are weakly but definitely aligned, with the exception of Controlled Chaos, which is trying to get in with the NC B-Team.
*puts on dumbass speculation hat* I get the impression that the NC is starting to coalesce around three definite poles. There's the DC/Pure Blind pole, the Razor/MM pole, and the ME/R.A.G.E B-Team pole. Eventually, as the NC continues to slowly expand and grow, I think you'll see even more separation between the groups.
*puts on additional dumbass classical parallel hat* The growing polarity in the NC reminds me a lot of some other "empires" that had to administer a lot of space and people. The Romans split their empire into two halves, then four parts that slowly grew apart due to pre-existing linguistic and cultural differences compounded by the (relative) difficulty of travel. Alexander's empire went through a similar process (hastened by his death). For all the NC haters out there, the Mongols did the same thing. On Serenity, the Chinese 0.0 empire went through a roughly similar process.
That was a lot of useless historical parallels to say the following: Empires barring relatively near-instantaneous transportation tear themselves apart, Vuk Lau is literally Atilla the Hun, The Mittani is literally Nero, Kesper North is literally Justinian, and the Southern Coalition were the Goths except not as proficient.
There is people in OWN, just general membership, who actually ferverantly believe everything that Teredrum has been telling them. That GSF and TEST have been trying to clear out Dek for themselves, that we are working against the NC, that we literally hate everyone, etc. Talking to those kinds of people and trying to stay polite is like gritting your teeth and biting into a rotten steak. It's not fun.
Actually it is because you can subtly mock them!
Indeterminacy or Sage or Lucian or whoever can definitely speak infinitely more officially than me about this, but me thinks you've pegged this right.
Controlled Chaos doesn't fly that much with Dek Co, last time I can remember was the TN-T coathanger fight against Ev0ke. We are Razor Guests and accordingly act as guests of the NC. And WTF is closer with MM/RZR than we are with the Dek Co. Which is not to say I didn't have a great time fighting with them against Ev0ke or nothin'.
I don't really know much personally about the other Pure Blind residents and where their specific loyalties lay as we have been spending a lot more time with RAGE, Majesta, MM, Razor, etc lately, but whatever.
The main thing I have to say about the NC as a whole is that it's demise has been predicted for a long time and really hasn't happened because unless someone can unseat RZR and MM, the NC will stay strong. And who right now could actually unseat MM or RZR? I don't see that happening any time in the near future. The people join the NC generally want to be part of it and there isn't much internal resentment brewing right now.
The only thing that could I guess fracture the NC is if people have to pick between Dek Co and NC and then that could, I guess, cause problems for the NC. That would be predicated on some of the other NC guests/NC members picking Dek Co and none of the eastern NC members would probably choose Dek Co (if it ever came to that). Pure Blind would probably be the battle ground and because that's where a lot of the guests/buffers live... pretty much nothing would change within the NC higher ups.
The only way the BFF empire falls is a war with Goons and Dek Co and even then I think the NC would stand a fairly good chance of surviving.
This is all hypothetical obviously. Right now things are pretty damn hunky dori up North and I don't see an internal war happening anytime soon, but hell I could be wrong.
(out of curiousity:
Are the WIdots still considered part of the NC or now considered part Dek Co? It seems to be a very fuzzy line these days.)
All the best,
Kiko
Seriouspost: I noticed the regional breakdown and personally attributed it to the NC's dissatisfaction with its current borders, and the relationship between server performance and what is militarily efficient. Its inefficient for the whole NC to run back and forth across their territory throwing thousands of dudes at reinforced single POSes, especially given that (barring special circumstances like putting a system on the Jita server) the servers generally aren't going to tolerate more than a thousand guys before they go bugfuck. That wastes most of the NC numerical advantage. Breaking the NC up into smaller units with jurisdiction over a couple regions here and there allows for an efficient use of manpower (a handful of sideshow campaigns being fought by a thousand guys each) with another grip of dudes on hand to throw at a major campaign or a special opportunity.
Regional blocs, shepherded around by an alliance or two whose leadership is at least vaguely associated with a clue, also possibly provide a more stable situation to bring up newer alliances to some level of competency, who in turn may one day beat the odds and be worth a shit. GoonSwarm's relationship with Red Alliance, or TEST's relationship with LODRA/CONDI, come to mind as templates. In any case, in a regional bloc a young alliance isn't expected to take on an older, established hostile alliance one on one and at the same time is in a position where it has to contribute to its own defense instead of screaming for the NC Police.
ed:
Future secession and possible civil war is predicated on a conflict of interest between these semi-independent regional blocs. It is difficult to imagine scenarios beyond "The NC is Tired of Our Goony Bullshit" for an actual conflict between, say, the Deklein Crew and the NC, or the Deklein Crew and Bloc X*. The time may very well come when GoonSwarm decides to leave Deklein but I cannot imagine anyone but possibly TEST coming with us.
*if you discount these guys every so often trying to steal our moons
I think that this is spot on. And it would be difficult to imagine that the NC would continue to allow smaller ambitious alliance to stay in a specific region and let them grow if they weren't onboard with the NC naptrain. NC leadership would tell them to GTFO or face being nuked. The revokability (not a word I know) of guest status allows NC leadership to monitor these situations and prevent regional secession from growing.Future secession and possible civil war is predicated on a conflict of interest between these semi-independent regional blocs. It is difficult to imagine scenarios beyond "The NC is Tired of Our Goony Bullshit" for an actual conflict between, say, the Deklein Crew and the NC, or the Deklein Crew and Bloc X*. The time may very well come when GoonSwarm decides to leave Deklein but I cannot imagine anyone but possibly TEST coming with us.
As I said before the only entity within NC/Dek Co that has enough power and political ability to generate any support and/or military viability against the NC is Goons and the only reason we would fight would be cultural differences.
It doesn't serve either entities self interest to fight, well except that there would be huge trolling opportunities for Goons.
MEA MAXIMA CULPA
Great analysis here from both Hratli and the Captain. I have noticed this cultural polarization myself. It was accelerated a bit by the fact that the B Team has started acting more independently ("big boy pants" heh~) and is has lately been deploying separately from the other NC blocs, resulting in the formation of a united Vale cultural identity within the greater context of all-embracing NC BFFdom.
The fact that our numbers are growing to the point where we can fill several fleets during CTAs has led to there usually being one or more separate 'Vale fleets' during campaign ops. So at a leadership and diplomatic level we're acting in concert with the NC, we're doing a lot more on our own, and that makes us feel like we're an entity unto ourselves.
Unless Vuk becomes a raging sperglord (or I flunk out of apology school) I cannot anticipate a time when the NC blocs would have reason to shoot at each other, but I think the coming months and years will see the sense of sub-bloc identity grow. The turning point will be when they come up with some sort of name for themselves other than "NC A Team", "NC B Team", et cetera.
The development of what we call 'The Clusterfuck' came from a loose coalition of 'ok guys, who wants to actually conquer Cloud Ring', rather than any greater political motive. It's completely ad hoc. Right now, the Clusterfuck is Dek Co + WIdot + FA + some Severance guys. While the social bonds created during the past month of campaigning will no doubt remain, there's not much going on in the Dek/Fade/PB area with CR 'over', so beyond mopping up I don't anticipate much action.
[twitter]themittani[/twitter]
Hasn't the NC always been this way though? It is basically structured as a defensive alliance. If the NC was under serious threat I'm pretty sure the Deklein coalition would be there. Partly to kill-mail whore but also because they generally like the NC (bff!) even if they consider them a bit too "srs bsns" at times (and are regarded as mildly retarded in return). Whereas when its an offensive each of the entities gets a bit more freedom to decide the extent to which they participate. So the Deklein coalition (Goons/Test/TNT) is a lot more interested in pacifying cloud ring than shipping across to the drone regions and are probably pleased some local groups (FCON, WI) have bought into the offensive on their own initiative.
That's partly why it has proved so durable IMO. Atlas and AAA (and IT) were huge but centrally led and largely by a single individual. So the smaller entities were purely pets with limited freedom, limited growth, no reason for loyalty and an administrative overhead. The North is a true alliance in that the states have a lot of independence other than a mutually beneficial pledge to defend each other. Elder powers (MM,Rzr) naturally carry a lot of political weight but as far as I know they don't have the ability to issue orders and demand obedience of other full NC members. And if an NC member burns out (eg. TCF) then a succession is a possibility. This can then get passed down the chain to guests. Someone linked the thread in which the TCF leader got quite angry when the groups living in Deklein were called renters.
The goons are extremely unlikely to turn on the NC I think. They've held masses of space and it almost killed them plus they take old loyalties pretty seriously (which is why BCA/OWN's duplicity annoy them so). Old hatreds too which is why OWN's suggestion that the goons were in league with IT is so hilarious. I could see TEST break off from the DC in the future as they're still expansionist and charting their own course but even then it's hard to imagine them turning on allies. At least until the whole map is blue at which point I think cancelling your sub and going out in a blaze of glory is eminently sensible... and would probably be organised in advance.
I wonder if there really is ever a serious danger of the whole map turning blue?
I've heard this bandied about as hyperbole, but I can't help but think that this is almost impossible irregardless that it is talked about in exaggeration. Too many different cultures, too many different views on EvE, too many people who like Pew Pew. If it ever got close to that point I feel like people would almost have to start resetting each other just to end the sheer boredom.
We were involved in the H-W breakout and so forth, and we were in a situation where we were squaring off alongside Rebellion against Red Alliance to defend fucking Stella Polaris when they dropped sov on their stations. GoonWaffe members weren't happy about that because we like Red Alliance andeath and largely consider Stella Polaris to be an actual waste of meat but Rebellion were in a jam and the larger strategic picture was pretty perilous what with it happening in the middle of MAX2.
Our Russian member corps seem to be largely on board with shooting anybody which I attribute to every Russian apparently hating every other Russian.
Hey ktainer wasn't nero gay?
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
I think it becomes increasingly possible as power inflation continues. If you had to try and hold all of 0.0 with battleships it would be impossible. You need too many pilots and you can't stop people building fleets in protected empire. On the other hand if you were the only power in the game that still had a super-cap fleet then dominance is possible. Even if you don't hold sov over all of 0.0 you'd know that you could attack freely, kill smaller cap-fleets or cap fleet construction, and encourage instability thereby (which you can then go and roam through in "fun" ships). That's why the idea of CCP introducing mother-ships fills me with a certain degree of dread.
There's always "Let us purge particularly useless sperglords from EVE" as a way to encourage action, and I can think of an alliance with not one but TWO dots in its name that could use some Cheeto-induced purging.
If you've ever seen the picture of The Mittani LARPing, you wouldn't need to ask this question.Hey ktainer wasn't nero gay?
I think I must be reading this wrong or this is a typo, Motherships (like Nyx or Aeon) already exist?
Are you saying you were filled with dread WHEN they CAME out? Or are they adding more Moitherships?
Anyways I agree if it ever got to that point that it would be possible to hold dominion over all of 0.0 at least by proxy, but I find it unlikely that any one entity could actually gain that sort of control.
And though I like the NAP train I'm currently in, that IMO is the bigger danger, though not likely. It's much less insidious and much harder to rally against because it's really just a bunch of friends agreeing not to shoot at each other, but I find it unlikely that everyone would want to BFF up and thus really unlikely anyways.
The NC has built up a fairly strange system to prevent both infighting and internal rot. It's way too political, overly complex and guaranteed to be a huge pain in the ass for their diplomats ... but it works. It works better than most other systems. Personally, I like our (GSF's) system, which values cultural compatibility, enthusiasm and mutual interest over SP, ship tonnage and whatever else it is the NC looks for in a guest alliance. Still, NC's political system has seen them through things that have killed other power blocs. There are guest alliances that would make the cut by OUR standards, but that doesn't mean our standards are higher. We just value different things. Anyway, the NC's stability and turnout speak for themselves. Joe Goon might not understand it or even like it, but most of us are willing to go with it, aside from some grumbling about this NC guest or that FC. Goons that aren't bitching about other alliances are bitching about ours, so hey.
I think he's assuming that when CCP took the ships that WERE officially known as 'motherships' and changed the name to 'supercarriers', they were implying that a new supercapital ship class would be introduced at some point. I wouldn't put it past CCP, but it's still speculation (Sansha motherships notwithstanding).
This gives me hope that the individual sub-blocs of the NC will break off and do their own thing. As they gain more power, more self-determination, and begin to forge their own identity, they might start to align themselves away from the 'central' NC. While a full reset is nothing more than a pipe dream, I can at least hope for more independence among the component parts of the NC. As mittens so wisely said, 'I enjoy guzzling horse cum', in addition to 'the more players the better'.
Caeleste naves interretis gravissimas sunt
The 'problem' for you is that, if several powerblocs form, but they're still on good terms with each other, there will be more northern fleets running more independent operations at the same time, and the underlying attitude of "hey you'll bail us out if we get in over our heads, right guys?" will still in place. Great for us, not so great for everyone else.
Better than the monolthiic superbloc that used to be and, to some degree, still is the case.
Caeleste naves interretis gravissimas sunt
I think at the end of the day no matter how disparate the factions of the NC get there is always the Batphone. As long as the NC Batphone is still connected and gets picked up on the other end we're all still BFFs. Someone would literally need to break up the trust that has built up between long time NC members before they could really assault and dissect the NC: someone would need to disconnect the batphone.
I said it before but RZR and MM are the lynch pin in this, without them the NC would fall, but the problem is you can't get to them without busting through the buffer alliances in PB/Fade/Vale/Geminate. Basically, it would take a political masterstroke to turn MM and RZR against each other or against the NC or the greater NC against them... and yeah I don't see anyone capable of doing that.
Honestly though, even if the NC factions became more independent it wouldn't change anything. The NC would still stand behind it's members if they were getting fucked over and it wouldn't look any different to outside players.
Ah that clears that up.
Cheers.
There's an article on Eve News 24 apparently written by an OWN member. I say apparently because although the guy's a Russian linguist with the US military, I... can't really make heads nor tails of what he's written. If anyone can make sense of it, it might help explain what's going on in the minds of OWN Alliance members right now. (And toss some tips my way; I'm going to try to get him to translate EVE-RU for me).
From Y-1918 in Branch to FWA-4V in Pure Blind a "Deklein curtain" has descended across the North...
It should be mentioned that while -7- and FA are busy helping the DC in Cloud Ring, FCON is mostly deployed in the Drone regions with MM and Razor. Any ex-Providence loyalties would likely be forgotten if it ever came to civil war simply because a) FA spent time on the other side during the Providence war b) hardly any of the old Providence people are left in FCON and c) -7- werent exactly super popular in Providence.
The real question is what side would Mostly Harmless come down on in such a conflict?
No, wait, the real question is: would anyone care?
Ive always wondered why people continue to try to invade the north thinking it will "break" the NC. During the PB War with Tri/WN caused the NC to become more unified then I have ever seen it. It took some time to get organized and thats why at least IMO Tri Co got so much headway in the beginning. However it seems that when left alone or not much is going on is when the NC really starts to fracture.
Now it seems that the NC is starting to divide itself like some have already said.
Even so I still have respect for NC and some of the major parties. Even though my experience has only been in OWN and a couple months in MM(which I miss).
But yea back on topic. The CSAA should hold a SC not a titan. BWG was only focused on building SCs and was a ways away from building a titan. Even though they where planning/working towards building Redrum a titan.
But, but who would man the EC- jump bridge without them?
The unity of the NC comes from the mutual protection of some of the most lucrative space in the game. If you want to break up the NC, break the reliance on Caldari shield tanking ships and missiles for the PVE game.
You're all way overthinking this.
I had to take a look for myself, oh my:
Are you sure you want this guy translating things for you?POOF! As you can see OWN has been kicked out of DEK. Now.. this question comes up. Who will take control of this new territory? How will the NC react now that GOONS/TEST now are the RICHEST alliance’s in eve (with help from cloud ring of course!). Will the goons team up with IT and push from the west to be known now as the WEST COALITION!? and then we can have an east vs west! instead of the north vs south.. But all in this in a short summary ready go!
OWN has lots of isk.. GOON’s ask OWN for audit.. OWN says no. GOON’s get mad start sending isk at own pilots. TCF falls. GOONS take no more! kicks OWN out. OWN move’s to somewhere…
Urrr what?
You ain't shitting. Babelfish would give you a better translation than this tard. I used to work for a newspaper, and I couldn't help but sperg a little over this rambling collection of :words:. The whole time I was reading it, this was going through my mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
Hey Czech. Offer me steady ISK and I will happily edit your articles so that they're fit for publication. I'm sure we can come to an arrangement. I ain't greedy.
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