Perhaps you missed the part where I said remove the ability to add corp/alliance to overview.Originally Posted by Kiko V
Perhaps you missed the part where I said remove the ability to add corp/alliance to overview.
Absolutely right on.
I think that is a particularly viable solution, encouraging multiple system attacks would definitely reduce blob size and require more tactical decisions, the main question is how do you implement this? Do you do something like invulnerability of Sov structures in systems that are linked through this Sov-link (or whatever you want to call it) system? Do you make it part of the internal mechanics of TCUs or do you require a constellation link module for a POS or a TCU or something? How many systems can be linked at one time? (the problem arising from the last question is that large entities could simply link 6 or 7 systems together and make it impossible to take any systems).
Just some things to think about. It's a very good idea.
So some small group that wants to go take space now has to attack multiple systems in order to take one. I give you & Dave props for creative thinking but you are only inciting blob warfare. The game would be better with smaller scale conflicts because artificial limits have been imposed to make it very hard for large groups of people to work together in any coherent fashion. Smaller regional conflicts would be a blast.
With limiting the number of players that can be in any 1 coalition you are limiting the size of fights whereby making them manageable for the servers to cope with. With making sov exponentially expensive at some point the stacking penalty outweighs the possible income. I know alliances that cant pvp there way out of a wet paper bag would be scared to stand on there own feet. But some big bad wolf can't just blow in and take space away from everyone because it would be too expensive to keep.
How many could be linked would have to be balanced, and maybe tied into the strat index. How they were linked could be a guarded secret of the defenders, and there'd be some strategy involved in making things difficult on attackers tactically. Could also be tied into the (still to be delivered) treaty system so that little guys could hook up.
I was thinking that the linked structures would just reinforce each other, unless they were all under attack, then they'd just act like they do now, with maybe a bit less HP. Any number of ways to do it though. The real game designers could figure it out, I'm sure.
Terrible idea.
'The bigger you are, the harder you fall?'
Why would anyone want to make it even more difficult for any of the large blocs to lose space by making it an even bigger grind to affect change?
Perhaps I did, but that's not the right way to approach this. Limiting overview settings and restricting standings only serves to annoy the fuck out of people and restrict gameplay. Small gangs are fun, but it just isn't realistic to expect people to only play with small gangs. CCP has never been in the business of limiting fleet size or alliance size as that would defeat the point of a sandbox. I have no problem with Blobs, it's just natural to try to get any advantage one can and that includes numbers. I feel it's anthetical to EvE's very nature to limit these sorts of things.
The intent isin't to increase the grind, but to make it so that an attacker will have to fight multiple battles to take sov, not just dogpiling everyone into one system. This way, instead of 1 lagged out clusterfuck, you hopefully get 3-5 good fights.
Caeleste naves interretis gravissimas sunt
I initially thought that as well, but it wouldn't necessarily be a bigger grind only a more spread out one. A bigger opponent would have to spread out it's forces as would the attacker. And that's the point when the numerical advantage is somewhat lesser, the "more skilled players" in theory, should have a chance. The smaller entity is going to be outnumbered anyways, why not give them a chance? This would make intelligence and fleet location even more important and a decision about where to allocate forces paramount.
The main problem to this is, yes, that even spread out the smaller entity will be outnumbered, but if you can't win against larger numbers than why are you trying to fight a Sov war against a bigger entity anyways?
I was thinking so. A smaller entity that was sharp and able to manuver well tactically could punch above their weight against a Mongolian horde that isn't listening to commands, making tactical mistakes, and taking forever to move and react.
Buh, but what will become of IT Alliance? Still they won't have to pay much for standings.
Also they should allow stargates to be destroyable & repairable. Don't like the enemy blob so destroy the stargate on one side. Of course if you don't have anyone on that side they might just repair it. You would still jump to the destroyed stargate from the other side.
No, it would just mean the defender would blob up and move from small attacking group to small attacking group.
How fast do you think a 500 man gang can get from system to system? Sure, Jump Bridges and what not, but even then it takes time to get into system.
It wouldn't be easy, but as of now it is impossible for a badly outnumbered group to even threaten a larger entity. This would at least give them a chance IMO.
That's why I was saying make it like an RR network, rather than an all or nothing "you must attack them all". If you do that, it would negate what you're talking about. Sure, the defender could blob up and go after one of the attacking groups, and that would free that node up temporarily to RR the others, which would slow down the attack, but the attacker could just keep out-flanking them and going where they aren't.
It should be understood that half of this problem is because you can pay for accounts with isk, so you have people multiboxing to bring these huge numbers. Make it a multi-system running battle where sharp tactical manuvering is really important, and you'll negate the advantage of that.
Considering that Goons have mastered stealth bombers I don't think you need to lower the actual player skill requirements
I mean seriously
The man has a point
Giving more power to "invisible" ships like stealth bombers will have side effects. And given the way stealth is implemented lead to some fairly boring gameplay.
It would be better if AoE effects where on a ship that is purely for strategic level warfare (eg. dreads). Though I wonder if CCP is moving this way with the Sisi changes that give all missiles an explosion range? Ultimately that won't fix the problem as long as you need to contest a single node at a single point in time, it will just make the fight quicker. The change has to be something in the SoV system so that win and loss is determined over the course of many battles.
The biggest hurdle you have to overcome when thinking about allowing smaller or more mobile groups to affect sov is that THAT mechanic is then exploitable by larger forces, making it easier for them to affect sov which, in the end, will have the opposite effect of what you are trying to achieve.
How? Forcing multiple battles to occur means that a large alliance will be able to outblob smaller alliances less effectively, due to reducing the absolute difference in numbers. 30 good pilots stand a better chance against 50 scrubs than do 60 good pilots vs. 100 scrubs. I'm actually not sure how effective the original mechanic would be at forcing multiple simultaneous battles, but anything that does that is a good thing in my book.
Caeleste naves interretis gravissimas sunt
It's always going to be about numbers, there isn't a way around it that retains any amount of balance for the game. Any limitations you put on larger entities can usually be overcome by other means.
POS warfare and AoE DD's were the two best mechanics to thin out the blobs. Dominion Sov encourages last-timer defense which then encourages larger blobs.
And while we're at it. Get rid of the idiotic multi-reinforced crap.
1. Attacker drops SBUs, must defend SBUs until they online. Once they online, they're invuln. Attacker gets to choose the DAY (not less than 2 days, not more than 6) that the SBUs go "hot".
2. Defender gets to choose the TIME that he SBUs go hot, with a variance like what we have now.
That day and time comes, the SBUs go hot. Have the fight, kill the shit (or not) plant your new TCU, (or not), and call it a fucking day. Sov warfare should be fun, not a soul sapping grind that goes to the last red-bull fueled nerd standing.
We probably should move our sov discussion to:
http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread...ter-system.-V2
I'm most certainly not tooting my own horn, just highlighting that the discussions about sov have been to hell and back on this forum and we might as well continue the latest discussion about it.
Quesa's BACK! True mate - there is simply no way to to allow smaller groups an impact that is not exploitable by large entities - just not possible - can't believe people still think it is without completely screwing with what makes EVE, well, umm... EVE.
What is wrong with just making sov easier to break? Whats wrong with more fluidity? It means the little guys can do more if only briefly, and cuts back on the grind aspects for the big boys. For enemies that capitulate, why the fuck should attackers have to grind through all that shit anyway? Nothign wrong with a good old blitz and catching someone with their pants down.
If the game is really in a situation as dire as everyone predicts - why do we hold to some of the old paradigms like "the defender should have an advantage"? Dramatically cut the HP (like 75%) of all sov related structures and reduce to 1 timer with a max of say a day / day and a half - and see what happens?
Maybe throw something in like mass limits into Jump Bridges (similar to WHs) where maybe you can build disposable mass limited long range ones, and let us all go berserk.
Because SOV is also meant to be a defensive advantage that allows a smaller, but highly motivated, defensive force to have some chance of holding space against a larger opponent. Otherwise you get involved in timezone wars or large groups able to just blob their way through the middle of the enemy in one evening.
A better system would be to get rid of timers altogether. That's what allows people to "alarm-clock" and gather people in advance so such huge numbers are involved. A better system would allow fights to develop organically without any fight being the deciding moment. For example if the attackers are regularly doing significant damage to all your installations it is a good indication you cannot defend your space and Sov should eventually drop to reflect that. If you can destroy their staging points (which currently would be SBUs) then clearly you can still defend your space and Sov remains. So it becomes more a series of battles in which an advantage is determined. SBU's planted versus defensive installations maybe (but it gets timezoned), ship losses in the contested space (but then you can force a draw by not participating), something that measures when one side is actually beaten.
a) thread open. xy happening/about to happen. "shitpost away" + (maybe) "smug"
b) this is now a rainbow pony thread
c) this will go well 1st
d) some dude in the office taking his time for an elaborate question that will be referenced to by ransomlist on thread page 22
e) other dude asking where and where pl will be in.
f) PL confirming that they like gangbangs
g) second this will go well posting
h) propaganda
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üüü) at page 49: third discussion about sov war mechanics started.
i kindly request to get back on the topic. how are our russian friends, and do they still have half of their caps logged off in lxq somewhere?
edit: see, this thread got so predictable that i overlooked that quesa was asking for the same earlier. Sorry, and thanks for that
Caps still logged off in system, periodic small fights breaking out, Legion of Death SBU's onlined, and station is in 1st Reinforce mode which will come out on Wednesday.
There ya go Phin.
It comes out at somewhere around 2:30am moscow time on UNITY DAY (or something) will they stay up to take their shit back or will they be past out freezing to death on the streets of moscow with vodka poisoning?
The NC has been rape caging the LXQ system for the better part of two days now and probably intends to continue to do so. The more damage we can inflict here on their Superfleet the better.
I can see it now, Dragan fleet will log in having not slept for two days with a gut full of Wodka and proceed to hilariously lose entire fleets. Then repeat it until the NC is ground into a bloody stump.
Come to think of it, only one thing there is new.
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
Since when do russians speak latin?
Caeleste naves interretis gravissimas sunt
DO YOU SPEAK LATIN SERGEI?
NO, PASS WODKAS
Russians had control of the system long enough to RF station mind you
I will just leave it here
Its amazing how when NC lost 500 and killed 120 they just stopped posting.
And no smug posting from RUS side either, what is this madness.
They all speak Russian?
Read this book yo, http://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Grunt...ion/1400061326 to see why 'the southern military tradition' is hardly a thing to be embarrassed about. This from a New Yorker.
So, am I to understand that the LXQ node has been re-reinforced? a la Saturday and not Sunday?
EDIT: When did we lose 500 and kill 120? Sunday? Yeah they seem to have gotten into the system quite early and locked it down. Had bubbles and cargo cans all around the Paala gate. Must have at least 50 cans by my quick count. Should we have gone for the node crash?
NC brought 500 more guys than RUS and after the "OMGBLOBS"-cry by manny they agreed to let the surplus die. So really, NC killed 120 for no losses.
Fine fine, I'll Oblige.
They didn't kill my megathron.
More Content: I wasn't there for the entirety of the battle, and FC's were burntout from saturday's engagement. I do know we had a slug fest on the Paala gate that lasted for hours, and reinforcements jumping in were reported as blackscreened.
As far as numbers go, local peaked at 1200 when I was on and slowly declined to 1000. Lag was bad (no surprise) but guns cycled manually ever 2mins. Primaries our FC called went down, there were drakes. a Fuckton of drakes. God damn drakes. Abandoned drones all over the grid probably didn't help either.
Dronies did end up holding the field, deploying SBU's and reff'ing the station. After our FC lost his 3rd ship, we warped to the safe POS and awaited further orders. Seems like there was a call for another form up 3 hrs later. I ended up logging in space and playing WoT.
Can't really seem to find a good killlboard link, they are all fucked up: http://rawr.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=7947890
[Arrador] possesses a considerable understanding of ship configurations, strengths and weakness. He gives clear and purposeful instructions, is good at taking advantage of the fleet-composition he's dealt, and never loses sight of the main goal: fun. This, paired with an excellent tolerance for strong drink gives him an almost Churchillian capability to win, despite being completely pissed on booze most of the fleet operation.
Guys, you smoke wrong russian shit. Their "deerhunt" killboard is something like that "northern crusade" for their internal propaganda usage, and it is always completely out of sync (doesn't sync losses properly), not counting very strange timeline range (there were no fight up to 14:00 at all, but all losses from 05:00-14:00 counted there somewhy - that is why you see a lot more NCs in system than were at moment of real fight). More accurate killboard link: http://rawr.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=7951402 . It does show 463 vs 599 at this moment (if you like to count pods and other small shit). Also our reinforcement fleet arrived too late and got slaughtered without grid because real fuck-up on our side.
It was interesting fight in matter of testing high alpha tanked ships vs high dps ships in heavy lags. Looks like alpha does mean more than everything else when modules activation/deactivation time measured in minutes.
nyx down
13:57:11 Notify Nyx belonging to PiRaTu self-destructs.
Dude you want BR and? Give me a break I was too busy sleeping (24 hours in the hot seat during a lag grind sucks balls) and loosing ships and getting fights. Besides, too many bitter vets complaining about us being BoB to really care.
Like arrador said:
Logged in, 1040 in local.
Died in my BS and podded in a russian rape cage.
Burned back in my ahac.
Joined up with MM dudes and crashed the gate with a shit ton of russians on the other side.
Loaded grid (wtf?), rest of the blues in system warp to gate, we start to fight.
Alignment is the sun, we fight and warp and fight till we are 500+ away from the gate.
Some one says "get in here junior!" and junior jumps ~200 drakes into system on the gate and black screens most of the fleet. ~emo rage~ then all is quiet.
Engagement is past my ahac lock range as we have mostly BS anyway, MM fc dies for the third time and calls warpout.
We all go afk in the pos to play WoT while the russians shield ref the station.
They go home to drink vodka, I keep playing WoT and drink scotch.
Timer is for Wed 3 Nov (22:50), gonna be a shit fest for sure as you can imagine.
Oh and while this shits going on, USTZ is off reinforcing more stuff in kalevala.
P.S. fucked up killboard: http://majesta.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_...kll_id=7947865
Russians had about 500 we had about 450 ish depending on when you looked. We lost probably twice as many as them?
P.S.S Probably most of that posting was us just being bored having been camping for 24 hours :P
Fuck is up with that tempest fit
Mate, I just think this pic is a funny illustration for your k/d ratio / blob composition debate ~
RRin', cap transferrin', Tempest? I don't know a lot about Tempest fits
'Southern military tradition' is p. quiet about consistently getting the shit kicked out of it by guys from Ohio
being from the south is something to be embarrassed about in general
Looks like a standard max-range "paper" snipest:
The med RR is there for post-fight reps, not for in-fight reps (hence medium, probably even offline).
The med cap transfer makes you an Apoc's/Mega's best friend, because the Tempest has the cap to spare to make them perma-run with that. Not really useful in fleet fights, though, due to the limited range. More for POS attacks where you don't worry about bomb runs or attacks. At least that's what we do with POS attacks with 20-40 BS, I guess the considerations change a lot when you have 200-400 ...
No idea why he uses a faction RCU, and I don't get the Vespa combat drones.
Man, I thought I posted some shit, at least I do it intentionally, not sure what excuse you guys are running with.
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