Shooting blues errydayI am sure they will milk this current cash cow for all it is worth, they may or may not stick around once they have gathered strength, hard to say.
Shooting blues errydayI am sure they will milk this current cash cow for all it is worth, they may or may not stick around once they have gathered strength, hard to say.
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
I want the Deklein Coalition and the NC Pure Blind shortbus crew to invade Fountain for one reason and one reason only:
Killing off Babylon5DOTDOT.
Yes, I am very mad. Why do you ask?
Also, I say give all the Drone space to Cold Steel Alliance and OWN Alliance. I can't see anything at all going wrong with that idea.
We would ask if we cared. Since you had to, assume that we don't.Originally Posted by captainktainer
I don't see NCDot being much of a factor as they're pretty much at the point where they're just trying to gank random capital ships and a campaign to raze Fountain to the ground wouldn't require much more than T1 Stabbers
I make no comment about quality, but the simple fact is that ITbloc/NCdot/Goonbloc/INITbloc (if such a bloc can be said to exist) are currently no where near the size of the NC or Dronebloc, and on their own, simply couldn't remotely match the sheer size fleets the primary powers can bring. Therefore we are second rate purely on the basis of numbers. Simple as that.
And like you say, conflicts on that scale are more enjoyable, so I am by no means complaining. In fact from my perspective, the current set of conflicts are close to ideal: There are multiple active fronts all over the map, with most of the alliances in 0.0 being involved in some way or another, the server performance is getting better almost by the day, ships are cheap and boats are getting violenced.
As I said, what's not to like?
While its probably a waste of effort on you bitter hating faggots. Here's an attempt at a Battle Report for the taking LXQ.
I'll try to repress the urge to troll all the "Oh look at bob mk1" crowd.
[spoiler="The Good"]
The Fight for me starts Friday night. 100 man BS gang to reinforce the pos's that the DroneBloc supers logged off in, and reinforce station services.
We warp to the first pos, Module is broadcasted and the fleet erupts with "WTF? Guns not cycling" Amarr pilots are complaining about no cap. FC warps fleet back to safe pos and I convo FC and explain to him the 0-cycle gun bug. We explain to the of the fleet and yee-haw its on. We melt modules right away and seemingly enough, the pos's are either not stronted or they are also bugged. However we make the call not to melt the pos. We do not want to give CCP or the droneBloc cause enough to have all our work reversed at down time. So we leave the first 2 pos's @ 10% shields.
Note: This is the first time I've actually seen the 0-cycle gun bug in effect. I had read about it before and knew what the effects where. Minmatar pilots were having the most fun, being able to empty clip after clip after clip after clip. Amarr and gallente pilots were constrained by cap, and we probably could have melted alot of more things, had not CCP rebooted the node twice and half the fleet not being able to shoot (cap requests) and running out of ammo.
On the 2nd node restart, CCP finally resolved the issue, so we did have to reinforce one POS and its modules (we already incapped them prior) the old fashioned way. We also had two warp back to the 2 other pos's and take 1 shot at each to put them in reinforced mode.
I had already made plans with my corp mates to alarm clock the next fleet. I've never alarmed clocked an OP in my eve life, and it seems all the bitter-vets have done it at least once. So we figured to try it. I'm also USTZ. "Crew who reinforces everything and never sees the resulting fight checking in." We figure DroneBloc is going to "Fight like lions." Nobody wants to miss the epic fight. Intel reports that the DroneBloc is going to start dog-piling into the system at 3am USTZ.
At 12 AM me and my corpmates set our alarm clocks and log off in LXQ.
[/spoiler]
[Spoiler="The Bad"]
Alarm goes off, I log in, Fleet is up and I join.
This is a bad idea. I'm never doing this again.
My Aussie brosefs are on. Time is passed by talking chatting. Waiting for the DroneBLoc to show up. 5am and system is somewhere between 300-500. Still no Dronies. Yes everything during this time period is hazy for me I'm not a morning person.
Strangely enough, the only Russians to be found are a few handful (under 100) sitting in the rape-caged pos'es. Honestly, our intel and assumption of russians had us believeing that this would be a 10 hour fight during the last station timer. Ever since dominion, this has been the textbook method of handling the last timer. The Dronies themselves have done the same thing. Look at CJ6. 0-w. They dog piled the system.
This is why I alarm-clocked, this is why ops were posted for 4hrs before downtime. We expected there to be slugfests trying to gain numerical control of the system before the station exited reinforce. We've sent out mails and run trains for people to stage out of uemon. All the ~good fites~ have built up to this last timer. But we're getting blue-balled. The DroneBloc is literally no-where to be found.
Downtime comes and rolls around. I sleep for 30mins and have my friend ping me on the cell. We Race to login. We figured the drone-bloc would attempt an after DT login rush.
Nothing. Same guys sitting in the rape-caged pos'es.
Local starts approaching 1000.
[/spoiler]
[Spoiler="The Ugly"]
We now have 2 BS fleets completly full, and a third one forming up. Reinforcements are constantly piling into the system. Its like New Years eve, we start counting down on coms until numerical milestones are reached, 1000, 1500, 2000, etc. Bets are taken as to what the system will peak at. (I bet we'd see over 2500, but never imagined seeing 3100+) Comments are made about the nodes stability. Fleets jumping in are able to load grid. etc etc.
Still no Dronies. Hell, we never saw a bomber wing for which the Drone Bloc are notorious for and are very good at.
No Troll: Krutoj, I'd honestly would love to know, what happened here? We honestly expected you all to be there way before down-time.
Local continues to raise. Still no russians. NC pilots are flooding into the system, because now it looks like we will be breaking records, Largest battle ever, first proper DroneBloc station to be claimed, etc etc
All in all it stands to be a historic event. This is a sandbox, pilots everywhere live for these events. Were where you when BoB fell? The battle of 49-u, H-W, CJ6, 0-W, Y2AN0, OBE, D-G, the list could go on. These are the battles (regardless of lag) that people either live to remember or regret.
As station nears its exit, reports of the DroneBloc forming up on titans and gates are flooding in. Tension is at an all time high.
Station Exits reinforced and shortly there-after all hell breaks lose, local explodes, and the lag monster shows that he is still alive. Albeit now it takes more numbers to wake him.
Multiple cynos open, some are popped, we wait to see which one they will use. Cyno Archon. 1600 Blood thirsty NC pilots who have been waiting all day for this event descend on that archon.
Yes, it was a power-point presentation battle for some (me included - I don't think I got on a single kill). Once the battle cleared at the cyno archon, we moved to the Paala gate to save our SBU. We still didn't know who was shooting at the station, if we were or if Dronies were.
Lag hit me the hardest at the Paala gate, must have been all the drakes there. Having been up for over 30 hrs with only 3hrs I sleep, I crashed. I went to bed at 4pm.
And thats the last time I ever alarm clock an op.
[/spoiler]
[Spoiler="Comments about the blob and where I troll the BoB MK1 crowd"]
You know, The eve community did have a chance and attempt to destroy us this year. Both early during Atlas's push, and MAX 2. The first we were not prepared for and honestly fighting for our land. The second was (in hindsight) an awful laughable attempt.
Its not a stretch to say in the NC, that some of us live for the blob. Some of us live for the huge slugfests. Some of us actually buy into CCP's advertisement. "Dragon fleet standing by." The reasons for this are rather numerous. For Example: not all of us can play in PL, as even shadoo has pointed out. Such a nomadic alliance? Fuck me I hate traveling in EvE.
Some of us are really horrible at Solo PvP. Some of us don't have an ego we need to support in terms of PvP prowess and therefore don't live by a K/D. As such we get often get drunk and whelp ships.
Some of us actually believe we are playing in a sandbox, and as such have played the game as we want to. "We're not playing your version of EvE online."
And some of you, are actually responsible for the blob. In almost every instance of an EVE centric forum is the NC universally ridiculed, hated and mocked. In that sense, perhaps we are BoB mk1. The most hated coalition. We mocked for our inability to PvP, and as such we are constantly "farmed". See Max, Max 2, Every Reincarnation of Triumvirate.
Well, I guess I must thank you. For now the NC has an image to which we adhere to, and which holds us together. Its an effective one, as its a rallying cry for us, and an epic troll/griefing for our enemies and haters.
We enjoy bringing the blob, because you all hate it. Half of you play, or do not even play this game but still enjoy forum porn, tears, and drama. I guess the NC is guilty of that too. We get ours through the blob.
All hail the blob.
[/spoiler]
Normally after such a laggy battle, its the norm to declare CCP the victor as an insult. But the constant remark of the day was, "I can't believe the node is holding." Yes it does appear that they did something quite drastic and it wouldn't exactly be feasible to roll it out to all of EvE server's in the same scale. But still....
CCP: I hoped you learned something from the largest fleet battle in EVE history. Please apply it to the rest of your server cluster.
[Arrador] possesses a considerable understanding of ship configurations, strengths and weakness. He gives clear and purposeful instructions, is good at taking advantage of the fleet-composition he's dealt, and never loses sight of the main goal: fun. This, paired with an excellent tolerance for strong drink gives him an almost Churchillian capability to win, despite being completely pissed on booze most of the fleet operation.
Can someone summarize this 0-cycle gun bug, I'm not familiar with it
haha you fucking queers got up in the middle of the night to play a video game
Guns have no cycle time. Amarr fires as long as they have cap. Other ammo using guns, have to group guns and press and hold F1. I could burn through 30 rounds of ammo just by holding f1. Then I ran out of cap
[Arrador] possesses a considerable understanding of ship configurations, strengths and weakness. He gives clear and purposeful instructions, is good at taking advantage of the fleet-composition he's dealt, and never loses sight of the main goal: fun. This, paired with an excellent tolerance for strong drink gives him an almost Churchillian capability to win, despite being completely pissed on booze most of the fleet operation.
I seem to recall this happening after a patch back in 2007 or 2008, with POS getting reinforced in 30 seconds and so forth. Banhammering ensued.Guns have no cycle time. Amarr fires as long as they have cap. Other ammo using guns, have to group guns and press and hold F1. I could burn through 30 rounds of ammo just by holding f1. Then I ran out of cap
it happened when CCP kept the node alive in p-2 as well.
I am shocked, shocked to see that in addition to the ongoing development efforts at CCP to improve lag in large scale fleet fights they have chosen to "throw hardware" at the problem in the form of what is known as a "Jita node".
Also, oh god my drake. Russians are serious business.
I get the impression from the last two days that CCP has prioritized how modules are processed. It seems like guns get processed last. While the ole suitcase never fails. MWD is in between. Once it starts it never stops and as many times as not it fails to use cap. That's smart IMO as it seems likely to improve ones chances to live in a high lag situation where you have little to no control over your ship. Unless the other guys DO have control....like now when flew straight off MWDing into the Russian fleet and DIAFd.
Had awesome time probing and tackling BS last night w/vasim in teh dram. More to come I hope.
It doesn't "improve lag" when CCP keeps a node alive through unusual means while half of the people "logged in" aren't really "logging in" and are black screened. It's the same crap they pulled in DG. Better to let the node crash and then have a race for people to actually log in than CCP going "Well, we can't handle this sort of fight and one half of the participants aren't actually loaded into the game but can be killed... but hey, let's keep the system up so the side that got in first can have a one-sided artificial victory."
Better to let the server crash so the poor fucks who got black screened can be cleared off the server and not killed due to a lack of loading grid. It's cool that CCP has an idea that they can plug in a jita node on large fleet fights on the fly, but stuff like that should come after a node crash and restart so it's attempted on an even playing field.
Like Satan said. I don't really see this as a improvement at all. All they where able to do was keep the node alive, other then that lag seem to be just as bad as ever.
Why sleep when you can be playing EVE ONLINE am I right
From a debugging standpoint, they can probably get much more data by keeping it alive and letting things play out - not saying that I agree with them using TQ to debug.
Autorepeat was working with 1700 in local, but turns out that jumping in 1500 more ALL AT THE SAME TIME didn't work so well. Jesus
@Quesa they didn't remove the server timeout, the server never timed out in fact CCP said it was never close to. They didn't artifically keep it alive they just used a much more powerful node
I come here for things like these. gg kugu
since they have dedicated hardware for jita. whats wrong with building a set of similarly dedicated hardware which you can switch a node to during downtime for a reinforcement request?
Usually there isn't going to be more than one 1000+ man battle going at a time.
And I don't believe the jita hardware is that godly, it allows 1500 people to use the system and not experience lag, but what would happen if those 1500 people were shooting, probably alot of lag.
so they probably need any fleet fight hardware to be twice that of the jita hardware.
I expect it'll get even better when they implement the missile thing in incursion, but couldnt they implement a similar system for the turrets shooting there projectiles as well?
what say the technically minded?
I said hi on the forums and 500 people flamed me
All the simulations and testing cycles in the world don't prepare you for what's going to happen in your production environment. It behooves all IT departments, and *especially* CCP's at this point, to have a window into what's going on in production.
I totally agree with it. They should be paying attention like this *every* time they get a node reinforcement request.
More data, more gooder.
Wouldn't that take precioussss developer hours away from fancy new features?
You do realise there were 3k people in system, and hundreds others trying to log in. You suggest to crash the node and have a race. Ooooooookayyyy. So then all the gremlins rush to login again, as suggested. So, when it's time to crash it again? At 1000? 1500? 2000? 2500? 3000? Oh, we were here before, nevermind.
And btw, in that rush of people logging in, there will be some of them loading first and then have another turkeyshoot at the later ones. Probably more balanced between sides, but blackout people will die again.
Crash online, here we crash again.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=7948004
What the **** are the kb bugged ..
That's the perfect tracking bug, mad possible when you have hax
Are you trolling or madly retarded?
[Arrador] possesses a considerable understanding of ship configurations, strengths and weakness. He gives clear and purposeful instructions, is good at taking advantage of the fleet-composition he's dealt, and never loses sight of the main goal: fun. This, paired with an excellent tolerance for strong drink gives him an almost Churchillian capability to win, despite being completely pissed on booze most of the fleet operation.
Which is the point, really. Don't mind them using advanced hardware to keep a node alive, but they should a crash first so there's an actual shot at a fight, rather than a big ol' one-sided turkey shoot.Probably more balanced between sides
I heard the Jita node hardware literally requires the blood and sputum of the first born sons of CCP employees for its cooling system, hence the rare usage, c/d
LXQ2 station is in RF, comes out 23:00 EVE time on Wednesday (3 days from now).
Hard to say who that favours, it's a bit too long to camp all the way from DT
Today was so fuckin bad.. Massiv lags startet at ~ 800-900 local. System was all day long at round about 1200 und it was just unplayable. Strange thing was, that for some people lag was more or less managable and for others there was just no coming through..
i orbited our anchor and my ship followed the fc perfectly for 30 min or so, i just couldnt lock or shoot or mwd... so the fc made a fleet warp and (ofc xD) i and 3-4 other blues cant take the fleetwarp for whatever reason there was. funny thing was, sitting there in this massive red blob, not able to accelerate your ship to 0.1m/sec, watching these massive numbers of battleships while they cant get a lock on you xD i think it took them 30 minutes to pop the ship, another 20 minutes to pod me and then there were another 30 minutes for me to wake up in my clone
the one thing i dont get, why took ccp the super mega power shiny hardware offline? all were expecting massive fights.. i mean, srsly wtf -.-
What? For real? I don't get why "oh let's crash the node and have a login race" is considered a valid tactic or a good idea or, even not a violation of a CCP Policy about abusing its systems but, let's organize our guys and our allies and coordinate fleets and movements before our enemy does is viewed as lame, fail, etc is certain circles. Can someone explain this to me?
Afterall, "History is made by those who show up" Attributed variously (and in various forms I might add)
Heh looks like CCP might just have to perma-RF LXQ node for the foreseeable future - thats fucking ace - gj Destroyer n friends
I'm a bit taken aback by some of the stupider shit coming out of usually quite sensible posters since the last few pages. Just a few points from my humble opinion:
i) I knew coming to Geminate cause of the crossover between AU and RU TZs was a good idea - I just didn't know quite how good an idea it would be. Yes I am happy as a pig in shit about this campaign.
ii) Having a nerd-rage at people for attacking other people in a fucking GAME is p stupid. Soz but it just is. There is nothing I like better than shooting mates when they go to the darkside
iii) Everyone who showed up for NC knew it would be a history making event in EVE - whether you like it or not people play the game for shit like this - who the fuck are you lot to criticise them for it?
iv) Anyone who doesn't think the Droneskis had every intention of crashing the node by playing it out the way they did is naive at best and retarded at worst. Those who think that is OK, whilst shitting on the NC for dogpiling the system well in advance, or who think CCP should've crashed the node and made it a log-in race - LAWL - don't be fucking wankers.
v) this is meant to be a war you retards - mad props to those who are willing to do whatever it takes to win. Thats what war is about. In an EVE context war is GOOD. No matter who fights it, no matter how they fight it. Its ALL good.
Now shut the fuck up with your pathetic whines and complaints about the how to's and wherefore's and suck it up and PLAY THE GAME.
Here endeth the sermon.
But the content...
Wusti some of those statements an contradictory.
Peace out man.
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
(+1) That people advocate intentional node crashing is beyond me. To suggest that ccp should do it or allow people to get away with attempting it is short sighted stupidity.
Let's call a spade a spade here. If drone russians wanted to keep LXQ they'd have done it the first timer...or the second. They owned the god damned system for how long?! It's their homes. The only reason they'd have formed up the way they did was if they weren't taking nc seriously or were planning to intentionally f the server. I could go on about why this is a stupid idea against an opponent who has a massive tz advantage, but I assume the distinguished reader can make that connection. Delyaing was only going to postpone the inevitable. Node crashing was simply going to reduce a 1700 vs 2000 fight into a 20 vs 500 fight during the US tz.
Drones needed to win this BEFORE the combined nc horde got there, setup, and resupplied. Did they think NC was screwing around? For some reason I sorta feel like maybe they did. All it would have taken was a single neut cov ops to see the massive amount of material they were staging near LXQ to understand they were going ballz deep here.
I think the unfortunate reality was that drone Russians were slow to react. They bought into all the hype about NC being 'lol' and drone russian super cap fleets being overwhelming. They were complacent against an underestimated enemy. It's not exactly incomprehensible. People get comfortable and they were riding high on some much deserved laurels from recent campaigns. NC should understand this better then anyone. It took a knock at their back door to get them 'all in' too.
Drones are fine. They just got their knock at the back door. They've already reinforced the shit in LXQ. There's going to be some more big fights. Everyone's gonna get some great stories and KM's outta it. Now that LXQ has sunk in you'll see it get taken alot more seriously and the entire war will get much more interesting.
LXQ was a good thing for BOTH sides.
I think the answer is less about how many cpus you can load onto a server cluster and more about how smart the system is in allocating resources. Currently each cluster has X number of systems loaded on it and by reinforcing the node they move the system to a higher capacity server cluster. But, you probably have many underutilised servers and a handful that get floored.
If the server was designed to treat each server cluster as part of a whole rather than many separate where systems where allocated virtually and many aspects of the number crunching that comes from combat could be split up then you should be more limited by total capacity and bandwidth limitations rather than individual cluster capacity.
Nah, they (Russians) were able to repeatedly get a "no fight" out of Atlas by bringing the SC blob. They thought they'd do the same there. Just log out the mighty blob, and the NC would give up and go away. Didn't work. The NC countered with exactly what they needed to counter with. Blob it out. Make logging the SC blob too high risk. It worked, and it'll keep working as long as the NC wants to do it.
The NCs tactics are sound. It's their strategy that I think is faulty. Screw sov timers and stations for now. They should just go after every CSAA they can find, and spam bubbles in every system where they find a macro-ratter. Decimate the cash flow, then taking sov will be cake.
I think the unfortunate reality was that drone Russians were slow to react. They bought into all the hype about NC being 'lol' and drone russian super cap fleets being overwhelming. They were complacent against an underestimated enemy. It's not exactly incomprehensible. People get comfortable and they were riding high on some much deserved laurels from recent campaigns. NC should understand this better then anyone. It took a knock at their back door to get them 'all in' too.
I don't really have a dog in this fight so much as I have been on a really long hiatus but it is clear to me that the thing the defenders tried to do (drop the node) was really their only option since using their 100+ super caps in a system where your enemy already is bringing numbers that even in pre-Dominion days was enough to get a system near crashing, is suicide. The NC leaders know that bringing 2000 people to a fight will make any supercaps used on the field...very, very vulnerable to lag related and consequently worthless, deaths. If you deny it you're a lying fucktard or a complete moron. It is the entire point of their blue policy.
Any defenders in EVE facing an opponent who can bring 2k+ is kind of out of regular game play options. It is like having your own rolling ball of lag. I dare you to bring out super caps and face our mighty lag ball. CCP only made this even more clear of a winning option with their new and improved "we will keep the node up even though it is entirely unstable, unplayable for the vast majority in the system, oh and by the way, if you're super cap dies in it we aren't replacing it" actions.
I would say it is pretty damn ballsy of the folks who did have supercaps on line the other day as it was entirely a crap shoot as to whether the enemy could have slowly killed you with nothing you could do.
The NC this weekend provided solid evidence that Titans should be given back their ridiculous super powers and I hated the way they impacted battles.
If there are going to be no penalties to bringing 2k to a fight, Eve is kind of doomed.
Just hanging around yo.
Nana.... nanaNAHnanananana Katamari Damacy....
There's a lot to like here.
Now if only I could log into LXQ...............................
I think that a better way to do aoe damage is needed in this game. However the titan aoe was fucking retarded. There is nothing wrong with giving viable aoe to subcap ships imho. Unfortunately stealth bombers can be a pain to use.
Fix Lag. Bombers become useful.
[Arrador] possesses a considerable understanding of ship configurations, strengths and weakness. He gives clear and purposeful instructions, is good at taking advantage of the fleet-composition he's dealt, and never loses sight of the main goal: fun. This, paired with an excellent tolerance for strong drink gives him an almost Churchillian capability to win, despite being completely pissed on booze most of the fleet operation.
"Fix Lag"?! Is it possible?!You are communist
Also, making bombers unable to decloak each other and increasing the resists bombs have to bombs of the same damage type would be a pretty big boost, and CCP mentioned that the former might be possible.
Caeleste naves interretis gravissimas sunt
Not possible to Fix lag when you bring 2k people because as soon as they do you will bring 3k and cry some more."Fix Lag"?! Is it possible?!
Smart bomb range makes it so it doesn't really hit enough people nor does it necessarily do enough damage to the targets. Bombs have problems with lag and also with the whole "they blow each other up, problem".
DD's were pretty much the most effective way to WTF pwn blobs, but they were also wayyy overpowered. I suppose you could try like HAC smartbombing through enemy blobs, but you would just get webbed...
Huh, I really can't think of any good way to effectively take out a blob besides bombing runs.
Buff bombs?
Limit alliance size , corp size , Sov cost increases exponentially , Standings cost isk to maintain and there is a limit red or blue. Remove alliance/corp column overview so fags cant work around standings cap.
Yeah see the problem with that is that it restricts the game. And as this is a Sandbox, we're supposed to be able to do basically whatever we want within the parameters of the game.
None of this has to do with game design it has to do with play style. It's not the job of CCP to tell us how to play, they just give us the tools and let us have at it.
They already tried sov costs, look what's happening in Pure Blind, Vale, Geminate, the NC NAP train just got larger. And if you made people pay for standings they would just do it informaly, it's really not that hard to put alliance tags on overviews, sure their would be a few "whoops nuked a blue" problems, but it would be pretty easy to overcome these ingame restrictions with some clever metagaming.
DDs gave a disincentive to loading up tons of players on one grid, but they were stoooopidly overdone.
Maybe deployable smartbombs?? I like that idea. though.... that would make gate camping lamely easy. Whatever, it's up to CCP to figure this shit out.
I'm not a programmer I'm just some fucking neckbeard living in his moms basement.
(yes I literally have a neckbeard and it's really gross. It's like Kyle Orton's).
This is nothing new. If the node will crash people will crash it if they think they can get a tactical advantage, and crash it repeatedly if things aren't going their way. That's been going on since at least RSF, and actually back to BoB v. ASCN. If the node doesn't crash it comes down to who is willing to camp the longest to be first on grid, and who can bring the most. Except for a brief period or two, it's been this way for years.
And, for years, the side that's on the short end whines that blobs are going to be the end of Eve, even though they were the blobbers last month. The blobs will keep getting bigger at least as fast as the servers can be made to handle a bigger blob, as long as it gives advantage. The problem is game mechanics that encourage single-system battles with servers that can only run a single system on ONE CORE. They either need to fix the server architecture, or:
They need to make it so that it's impossible to take a single system from an entity that holds many. Make the sov structures work like a huge linkable RR network within a certain number of light-years. Try to attack only one, and it gets repped by all the others. You MUST spread out and attack many simultaneously to take them down. It would still favor the entity that could bring the biggest numbers, but at least you could get real fights in each system.
Multiple alliances in name only. Multiple corps in name only. See First. KOS/ally lists hosted outside. IIRC Goons made a hacked client that made CCP put in that column.
Caeleste naves interretis gravissimas sunt
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