8x heat sink geddons?Originally Posted by Elektrea
8x heat sink geddons?
Caeleste naves interretis gravissimas sunt
ahaha people in this thread unironically wanting back aoe DDs and thinking removing them is what caused lag
Some people genuinely think the DD change was short sighted.ahaha people in this thread unironically wanting back aoe DDs and thinking removing them is what caused lag
Elektrea means Falcons of course, and yes, it's amazing people don't think of ewar.
Blackbirds/Arbitrators/Celestis and even Bellicose are all very good low-SP ships that fuck armor hacs in different ways.
However, unlike a Drake blob, you need a few neurons to use them in a group.
ugh double post
Let me just say that when Drakes are nerfed, Battleships will come back, if only because of the nature of what unskilled blobs are and tend to do. You may see the odd Hurricane/Ferox shield gang, or Harbinger/Hurricane armor gang however. This is in the context of noobish groups like the NC, IT, -A- or GSFed -- better groups will run something different.
Falcons can outrange Pulse Zealots, it's true, but there's always some scrub that shows up in a rail deimos...
Ug, so much derp. When Bombers, Ahacs, and Super caps are nerfed, Battleships will come back. Currently, Medium range Battleships are the best counter to Drakes. If you can keep the drakes pinned down, they will take full damage from a wave of bombers using electron bombs. Unlike battleships, Drakes have a pinch of mobility. Unlike battleships, Drakes require much less isk and SP.
But of course, CCP couldn't solve a chicken + egg problem much less distinguish between the two, so the nerf bat gets wielded. Seems like CCP only has a hammer in their toolkit, so everything looks like a nail.
[Arrador] possesses a considerable understanding of ship configurations, strengths and weakness. He gives clear and purposeful instructions, is good at taking advantage of the fleet-composition he's dealt, and never loses sight of the main goal: fun. This, paired with an excellent tolerance for strong drink gives him an almost Churchillian capability to win, despite being completely pissed on booze most of the fleet operation.
Not without leaving bits of smashed eggshell and chicken feathers all over the place, no...
Even if they nerf Scorch down to a 25% bonus, Mega Pulses will still have an optimal of 37.5km. That reduces Amarr's effectiveness somewhat, but not enough to make other weapon systems better or more viable. The "problem" of Amarr ship dominance is due to much more than just Scorch.
Scorch, a weapons system with high base damage, some hulls that are questionably too good (Armageddons are the rolls royce of tier 1 BS) and hulls that have pretty much perfect slot layouts an bonuses for a role that happens to fit the current and recent meta well...
Changing scorch is the only quick 'fix' that wont have huge collateral damage AND require shitloads of development and testing.
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they're fucking retarded. the DD change has made subcap combat more relevant and useful and allowed for more variety than existed previously. it was one good thing ccp did, then they followed it up by retarded buffs to supercarriers
i also like the idiots making the moronic argument that removing aoe dds has somehow led to more lag, which has no fucking basis in fact or logic
I can't believe you boofheads have just added another 3 pages of blurf to this thread without adding a single additional idea or original thought.
Well, we got as far as pointing out Drakes arent really overpowered because Amarr BS make short work of them. I think if you come back in another 2 pages this will have turned into a fullblown "nerf Amarr" thread.
Nerf Baddon, Buff Rokh.
[Arrador] possesses a considerable understanding of ship configurations, strengths and weakness. He gives clear and purposeful instructions, is good at taking advantage of the fleet-composition he's dealt, and never loses sight of the main goal: fun. This, paired with an excellent tolerance for strong drink gives him an almost Churchillian capability to win, despite being completely pissed on booze most of the fleet operation.
There were more ways to thin out the use of AoE DD's by such things as limiting how many DD's can go off in a system/grid, or some variation. Sticking them to a single target DD and giving them 50,000,000 EHP just made them more retarded than before.
imo, they should replace the bonus either by :
+5%dmg to kin heavy missiles/+5%rof
or
+5%shield res/+5%shield.
To make it either a retardly big missile dpser, or a retardly huge tanker.
And obviously, lower the base shield buffer/recharge rate a tiny bit anyway.
Drakes don't need a nerf, because people like me think they already suck.
Yeah I know, I'm all outdated and stuff. Old crotchety drake hater here.
I think the next evolutionary step (at least as far as FOTM behaviors go) in the rock/paper/scissors deal is more mixed fleets, with the wealthier and higher SP pilots composing specialized fleets (aHac, sHac, et. al.) with the scrubs running drakes or mid-range BS (If you have specialists available, then assigning the scrubs to BS would be better but do Drakes if the count of specialist ships are low).
We have, of course, seen some of this already.
This has been said many times before in this thread, but I'll say it again.
DRAKES HAVE EFFECTIVE COUNTERS. Midrange BS, especially the HELLCAT abaddon, but any other BS that delivers effective DPS in the 0-70km range bracket will rape drakes. This has been shown time and time again. Yes, it is possible for a drake fleet to do well against armor hac fleets, but only given overwhelming numbers. Fortunately, this is possible given that a drake has a very low SP requirement, but even so, Drakes are not OP. They're an easy, viable option that allows large alliances with low average SP to effectively compete against smaller, elite, alliances. If you look at things in terms of small gang/solo pvp, then yes the drake probably needs a nerf. But in the context of fleet fights, like fuck it does.
Caeleste naves interretis gravissimas sunt
khefron couldn't theorycraft his way out of a wet paper bag, his points are shit and when will goons stop crying about supercaps. look. you wasted trillions of isk on useless stations in d/q instead of building a supercap advantage. you're dumb and bitter. get over it.
I rarely do this, but you really do sound quite mad.
Careful, last time I said Drakes suck I started getting hatemail from TEST
Being the utter blobbers that we are, the NC frequently deploys two fleets from this little paper / scissors / stone chain. It does have the advantge that if one fleet the meets the type of fleet its weak against, the second fleet can help it out.
2:1 numbers helps too...
It's a fairly logical step that we start including more support roles in fleet. The most obvious example I can think of is using AHAC zealots with sebos in their mids to protect BS gangs from Bomber runs.
He is, especially since we have a pretty impressive amount of supercapitals currently.
THE MADDEST
Killing 100 drakes with 75 battleships that cost 5 times more and require 3 times more SP is not an effective counter buddy. And the problem is Hellcats work only against draeks, while draeks work against anything. Drake is a stupid ship and it has to be nerfed. It has always been one and justice shall finally be served.
Pretty much what Mr. Smirks quoted.
U can be in a Drake and semi-productive with less than 1M SP. Thats a fucking ace thing for the game - don't fuck with it. A nerf will simply remove the last widely-viable Caldari pvp boat you wankers. Think about it.
but but but having 70M SP and being able to fly a TEE TOO ship means that I should be immune from disgusting proles
what's your name on gf.com
He's still right about khefron though
Wusti, there is only one descent ship in the entire caldari line up for PvP that is not terrible, Drake.
The drake is not the problem, but more so the fact that CCP is not fixing their damn game, but in the end it does not matter, they have set their eyes on the drake and will nerf it to fuck, then all caldari will do the next best thing which is cross-train into amarr and just make it Amarr Online and be done with it.
Hopefully the drake nerf will come after the rocket boost then
The drake is not the problem, but more so the fact that CCP is not fixing their damn game, but in the end it does not matter, they have set their eyes on the drake and will nerf it to fuck, then all caldari will do the next best thing which is cross-train into amarr and just make it Amarr Online and be done with it.
oh and tengus are n1
Actually Caracals are pretty good.
The drake is not the problem, but more so the fact that CCP is not fixing their damn game, but in the end it does not matter, they have set their eyes on the drake and will nerf it to fuck, then all caldari will do the next best thing which is cross-train into amarr and just make it Amarr Online and be done with it.
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
Blackbirds rock yo
ECM is fucking amazing, but I don't think it works in the superlaggy fleet battles. I personally love my blackbird and I am totally flying the shit out of it on every home defense and small gang operation we have, but it's worthless in fleet fights until CCP fixes this buggy-ass game.
I think that is the root of a majority (perhaps even most) of the Drake hate.
NEWBS IN T1 SHIPS BLOWING UP MY FACTION FITTED HAC :RAGE:
I think it's more that (bitter) vets feel their SP, ISK and experience advantage should scale from the micro level (where no one questions the advantage) to small gangs, fleets and space empires. I'm guessing that at one point it did and older players resent the paradigm shift towards alliances that can field flat out more numbers.
On the other hand, PL is running around tearing everybody a new asshole and making Drake fleets look absolutely ridiculous, so I'm pretty sure it's all a bunch of huff about nothing.
totally PL and their tactics cannot be stopped.
*loses 11 legions*
*buys shakeweight for men*
At first I had no idea what you were talking about, then I checked Czech's site. For all the talk of "lolrp", CVA seems surprisingly competent. Although I have to ask exactly what the fuck happened.
If you think you should be unstoppable just because you've been playing the game more/longer you could go play literally any other mmorpg
I am unstopable, but i don't want others to be. Boosh!
No ones really mentioned the possible sig radius adjustment.
What do you mean? Because a well-fitted drake already has the sig radius of a battleship.
Until it hits the MWD to do all that kiting we hear so much about, then it has the sig radius of a carrier.....
We are the PL, you can kill us, but you too dumb to know how.
The problem with ahacs is that counter to them awaits some ridiculous micromanagement that 99,9% of eve population isnt able to do due to skill/lag/not enough players. In the battle its not about the best setup, its about the best execution of that setup. Drakes enable most of eve playerbase actually participate in fleet fights, thus having reason to why play the game outside of missioning, ratting and fueling towers.
We can tear each other to pieces as what was first, blob or l33t fleet, but they exist to counter each other. Its funny that most of the times, each setup avoids the same in order to not have gf but achieve objective. From that perspective NC vs drones is refreshing versus the usual 10:1 overkill or same numbers but one side is in motherships.
In the end the l33t groups couldnt exist without the blobbers, so they shouldnt complain but embrace the challenge. Making it even harder to join fights that require hours of preparation and cta´s will result in more players going apathic towards pvp in general. As the small gangs wont cut it, and never had. People join Ev cause of the epic battles about some objective, not about we killed 5 with 3 or soloed a mammoth.
I ll get fucked for nxt line here, but- PL and other l33t pvp outlets should actually support and help the unskilled ones to find counters to them, as that would make their pvp much more even and fun for both groups. The elitism is understandable, but not helpful.
Battleships should have some reason to exist, however with t2 signature radius they cant compete effectively, sometimes yes, but in 90% of cases, bs will burned to ground by t2/t3. Until CCP understands that in every ship there should be something valuable you bring to battlefield (not meaning dying) than people choice will ofc be the most effective, effcient vehicle for the bucks.
Drakes, ahacs, logistics, supercarriers. They are not overpowered, but other ships and some game mechanics is out of the line (remote reps, fighter bombers).
Finding an equilibrium between all of this is not impossible, usually looking and analyzing fights, speaking with players and understanding what some changes CCP makes mean would do the job in little time.
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Oh look Czech being wrong, brown nosing PL and making walloftext. Shocker.
CVA put target painters on their damnations and graped pl with it. A specific ship fitting target painters and using it on the primary is not something that requires superdevhax micro management. It requires brain cells to fit in the first place, but the actual usage could be done by anyone that's capable of shooting the primary.
I don't understand why people insist that they want ALL ships to be viable. It's incredibly hard to balance games that way and often the best games out there have essentially only 4-5 playable (read equally overpowered) characters/units. With just these small number of choices the games can still find ways to be competitive and enjoyable. The current 4 setup metagame (cr ahac, sniper hac, drake, anti-drake bs) would be enjoyable if drakes were more fun to play with and if missiles didn't cause so much lag.
You mean zealot, zealot, drake, abaddon. People seek diversity, because it's boring to fly just 3 ships in a game that has 500. And the bigger problem - more and more and more people are giving up on trying new things and just embracing the draek blob. The current 3 ship setup is not enjoyable, not even the slightest, we can all fly drakes, but we don't want as it's boring. You need to understand that this game is not only about winning and losing, it's supposed to be fun.
Gee, who'd have though the heavy handed speed nerf and the buffer tanking buff some time before that would ever have lead to polarized gameplay.
EDIT: Czech lion is slowly morphing into a less literate Clomsaver
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