I went back and checked the archived ops forums and sure enough supers are asked for about 75% of our ops. Not flying one I never bothered to really look at it but yeah youre right.Originally Posted by Zev
So I guess it's a case of leadership wanting them used and supercarrier pilots not x'ing up with them. I can't really add much to that, there is definately an expectation of an attack and preparations being made so I assumed it was all connected.
Seems we're just too scared then.......
We never lost Delve, we just decided to let someone else borrow it for a bit
If you look at it we were saying different things. Snsmasta is saying that we don't need more moons to fund our sov upkeep ect.
As for more moons to fund cap/supercap production I would disagree - but only that you can't have too many. If CCP suddenly flipped a bunch of our shit R32's to tech we would use them, if we saw an opportunity to take some more moons that we could defend then we would take them - I can't see anyone going "lot's of free money? No thanks - we have enough allready".
Equally if we had more moons, we would have more supercaps and their individual losses would be less significant. So yes we have "enough" moons but certainly not enough to leroy cap/supercap fleets around for shits and giggles
Note - how do I get the bloody multi-quote thing to work?
Economy of force just straight up doesn't exist in this internet spaceships video game. If someone's not showing up with every last dude in their alliance in their premier ship it's because guys aren't logging in, are scared, or are pissed off at something keeping them from x'ing up.
Comedy ops excepted, of course
How is 150+ supercaps not enogh to leeroy them around for shits and giggles:
It really shows a lack of something pretty important if you've got those kind of player resources and no way to use them outside of plexes
The Monkeysphere [NEWS]
That seems to indicate to me that they had fewer than 30-40 supercarriers active.
Looking at the hotdrop on CVA, I count 9 titans and 15 supercarriers.
Comparing this to a combined WN/PL/XIX/etc. fleet fielding 24 supercarriers, I can understand the reluctance to use them. Any supercap fight would take quite a while, and any of the "big targets" have pretty good batphones there - IT does not.
So, not very "ballsy" to avoid their use, but not particularly irrational, either.
We have no moons, we have no sustainable income, we have less supercaps than you do.
We use them constantly, as do a lot of other alliances in similar situations to us (NC. evoke etc). This is because where IT seems to look at it as why should we use our supercaps? the PVP alliances look at it as why shouldn't we?
Take the AZN fight, you waited to see if you would win the support fight before deploying supers, we deployed supers from the very start, DDed your command ships and repped your primaries with supercarriers. Had your FC had the balls to commit (and not been godawful, primarying hics while they are in range of supercap reps? really?) the support fight would have been a lot more even and you'd have had something like 180 caps on the field vs 10 of ours while we waited for our reinforcements to get in/load. And even if they had loaded it would have been a pretty brutal fight, victory against a competent opponent in that situation would by no means have been guaranteed for us.
Dunno if that "you" was a reference to me - I'm not in IT or any of the involved alliances here. Nor blue, nor aligned.
And yes, IT needs to start using their supercaps more if they want more in fleets. It has rarely been effective to post on the forums to get more of any ship type. You need to use them, then over time, you get more of them.
I Don't understand why you are afraid to use them, you only recently brought them in when everything seemed to die down but then you're only using them in if there's no risk.
I Don't think they need any more, from their own kill boards they have enough. most of their ops from their forums ask for the whole fleet, or everything but titans, they move them to 5-n but nothing ever happens.And yes, IT needs to start using their super caps more if they want more in fleets. It has rarely been effective to post on the forums to get more of any ship type. You need to use them, then over time, you get more of them.
ccp still need to fix the lag generating nature of fighterbombers, 10 supercarriers on grid and i drop from 60 fps to 10 fps after they launch fighterbombers.
drone models and effects off
i cant imagine what a fight with 50 supers vs 50 supers and support fleets would be like.
Y-2ANO
..and despite that we're the ones using them all the time, not IT
The Monkeysphere [NEWS]
There will never be a 50 vs 50 supercap fight.
Nobody will ever commit supercaps to kill other supercaps unless they know they will win.
A slide show.
"Nobody will ever commit caps to kill other caps unless they know they will win." - Eve, 2007
to have almost no chance of losing any, even bringing enough to kill 10 is a massive amount.
login screen
Did you play eve in 07?
I did and nobody ever said that back then.
Shit if I'd been playing EVE for three years I'd seriously reconsider my life choices because seriously
eve online
To be fair Y-2 was only such a hilariously one sided server fuck up because of the 12+ hours of FUUUUUCK EVERYONE GET HERE OHSHITSHITSHIT buildup and the 1500 or so in local that resulted. More spontaneous hotdrops with 'normal' sized support fleets won't be nearly so bad.
Actually no I didn't, I just guessed, so, I dunno, '06 then or something
Holy fuck, from all this hurf durfing~, somebody actually got it why we didn't really want to "hot drop" obvious bait is obvious supers. The point was, yes we could of dropped them, but we could not escalate it. We have no allies there and INT is basically blue to almost everyone involved in that. Could of easily escalated and been 2-3:1 odds in supers against us and why would we want to be retarded and just give you easy kills? If we could at least match the supers that you could batphone we would of been dropping the fuck out of you, but as it stood, we did not and played the safe card which in your terms is "no balls".
@Jim, I was not talking just about sov-upkeep, I mean, really, we have a retarded amount of moons. The alliance is pretty damn rich atm. The super-cap reimbursement alone should tell the "normal" grunt how the alliance is faring isk wise.
3) Supercarrriers. Srsly, c'mon. There is now 160 Supercarriers in the alliance, and there was 60 active in Catch, that sucks majorly. Remove your SC's from anomalies, and bring them to the field, they win cap battles, and give us so much more options. If we had 150 of those over in catch we could have done waaaaaaaaaaaay more hotdrops on bigger targets. As it was, TITANS outnumbered the SC's at several times.
By your own leaders words you outmatched the numbers in that combined Fleet they fielded 24 supers, according to Molle you fielded 60 in catch, the majority of the time you had atleast 5 - 10 titans with them.
Have.
there is a big difference between active and fielded.
active only means that they are in the staging area, fielded means they are actually used in gangs.
Active but to afraid to field possibly. Cause i wouldn't log in a fancy toy to sit at a pos most of the day when theres ops called for them.
world of tanks
[spoiler=This is a spoiler][spoiler=Another spoiler][spoiler=Guess what?]-A- is shit![/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler]
Who hasn't said something similar in his first 18 months of playing. I know I did.
Just you wait.
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
Is annoying, i bought the gun rammer for my is-4 and i cant seem to hurt anything, i bounced 3 times of a Leopard.
Is the reimbursement that good? I know from -a- that if you lost one in their ops you'd get one back, but all i found on the forums was you'd get 10b for a Super carrier and 20b back if you lost a titan.@Jim, I was not talking just about sov-upkeep, I mean, really, we have a retarded amount of moons. The alliance is pretty damn rich atm. The super-cap reimbursement alone should tell the "normal" grunt how the alliance is faring isk wise.
Thanks for fixing up some of my typing mistakes, my sentence structure is not the best since English is not my first language.
Pretty much, the "60" in catch is the total spread throughout our, euro to Russian time zones. So getting those 60 in one TZ don't really work out. It could be "doable" if we for instance did a major CTA but we haven't done one in ages. But as it stood, the numbers of our supers in one particular time zone is not enough to match the escalation that would happen if we did drop somebody. That's why you see Molle saying "If we could have this many available for fleet, we could do more". But since Euro's didn't have that many available to them, the amount of things we could do with them was pretty much narrowed to playing it safe.
Not at all, supers are always in fleet when they are called for, the ones that were moved to Catch. But like I said in above post, 60 is spread through all our TZ's.
We sell our supers pretty cheaply to members, well its also more dependent on what corp you are in, but needles to say, the 10b almost covers everything.
60 deployed out of a pool of 150 seems really pathetic and makes you wonder if you don't have the right people in them.
As long as PL has a single capital ship pilot that can log in with a ship in jump range, any supercaps they field are going to be "obvious bait is obvious" ships. The question is whether you treat them as such and never fight or if you develop some stomach for appropriate risk.
Promising reimbursement does not make people buy supercaps if they are in an alliance that does not use them.
Use the isk getting your members into the supercarriers in the first place and then dont lose them.
You have to consider the risk/benefit ratio. The risk, even if moderate is never worth a tiny to small benefit. When there is a significant benefit then it is reasonable to accept more risk. If the only benefit is to be able to look at the killboard and feel "OMG I ROXRZ !!!!!11 about oneself, it is not worth the risk.
The biggest reason people don't use supers is not the fear of loosing it, but the fear of loosing it stupidly and being mocked and berated by everyone (all of whom either don't fly a supercap or never use it anyhow).
So what you're saying is that people don't use their supercaps because they're afraid to lose them and have mean people on the internet make fun of them. Oh no!
The last time I checked, Eve is a game, and everyone eventually gets theirs in the end. Sure, some might meet hilarious endings while others won't. The likelihood of losing a super "stupidly" gets mitigated by actually learning how to use it in situations not involving anomalies and bearing.
What I think that you're basically saying will end up being a self-fulfilling cycle. The supercap "pilots" who are afraid to use them in anger will never learn, and someday will eventually lose them in a "stupid" fashion for lack of knowing any better. Or maybe they'll get lucky and never die since they either won't login or won't op with them, at which point what good are they? This goes back to my earlier comment about maybe not having the right pilots in them.
Shit. This was almost a srspost.
Makes perfect sense to me. Super-capitals are extremely valuable as a deterrent even if they are not on the field. Indeed field them and you have both revealed your hand and invited a counter-drop. And if they are destroyed then the other side gets to field supers with near impunity and you probably lost the war / your space.
So PL who wants to make use of their active supercap advantage, and build upon it, will push for them to be used aggressively and challenge peoples e-honor. After all even if they should lose a resulting super-cap engagement they don't have to worry about sovereignty after the engagement. For the more numerous, but perhaps not as individually skilled / geared, IT the advantages of keeping them as a deterrent and pushing the battle towards sub-cap engagement, especially when they are not in a final defensive of their space, is probably the best use. That lets them get all their members involved, use their numbers and maybe make PL bleed a bit.
Good tactics.
Hm. If you are talking about IT, then you have something you want to fix there. Mocking your own for losing ships is not really helpful, as you can mock any loss. Some sensible discussions about how to avoid the loss next time are good, though.
If you are talking about The Internets... well, looking at this thread here alone should make it clear that it absolutely does not matter what you do. People who dislike you will mock you, no matter what, ignoring all facts, anything you say, anything you do, conveniently misinterpreting whatever there is so they can make fun of it. It's called "troll", and the best approach to that is to ignore them. Because, well, they won't do anything but mock anyhow.
It's a rather natural reaction to try and get some "respect" out of people you meet. It's what the trolls use - they will not give respect, but just continue to make fun of you, no matter what.
So, if that's the issue, best to get your people to understand that getting respect from public forums is about as important as getting (general) respect from the next firstgrader.
Heh - as I said, I don't even fly capitals, let alone supers so it's not a case of me not flying them. I'm speculating why people in general don't field them along with other shiny toys like T3 ect. And certainly, normal losses people don't mock -but a super loss is not normal and it's less about being mocked, more about feeling stupid and having to go cap-in-hand for a replacement (especially for leeroying them about).
Regardless I agree that we have enough SC's , it's just that unlike the NC, PL and Russians we are much more risk-adverse when it comes to using them. This seems to be more on a individual level rather than leadership since they want more people to x up with them.
what the hell happened to "because we can"?
that answer should shut up anyone mocking somebody about losing caps/sc's.
yes it does hurt when they are a scarce good in your alliance and you desperately need them to slug out your pos defense, but when on the offensive you should show everyone how big your dong(strap-on if your female or have a small peenus) is and make half of them run away, screaming in fear
fuck yeah, warp your mom to a gate and rape that kestrel. what could possibly go wrong?
(watch me lose my first cap as soon as i can fly one, then smack about a terribad meta 4 fit. i'll do it just for your entertainment).
edit: 60 out of 150 is pretty good compared to overall average participation quota anywhere else. inactivity usually grows exponentially to member count from what i see, why should that be different among those who did reach the "end-game" a while ago or are very close to it?)
You are all retarded. The people not fielding their supercaps are old-guard bitter vet world of tank players just like in everywhere else. They might log in now and then for something big but that's it. The number of regulary active supercarriers goes up as new, active pilots get into them. IT started with a big number of old inactive players that already reached their endgame before supercarriers were all the craze and so they never really got back, so there is a bigger disparity of existing supercarriers to active supercarriers in the alliance at the moment.
The complaints Molle had was that while IT could pretty much regulary get 10+ titans in every timezone, the ratio of active supercarriers to existing supercarriers was much worse, so it's being worked on.
P.S.: If you were all so longing for a supercap fight, why didn't you hotdrop an IT supercap fleet? They were out and being used pretty much every day. In reality all sides only used them when they were really sure nothing bad would happen
Haha no they weren't
I believe they render even with drone models turned off, which is one of the reasons super carriers in large numbers are bad for everyone on grid.ccp still need to fix the lag generating nature of fighterbombers, 10 supercarriers on grid and i drop from 60 fps to 10 fps after they launch fighterbombers.
drone models and effects off
Looks like CCP is listening to Aurora148 :-D
More the miracle is their crack lag team, after months of complex technical investigation, realise that 10 supercarriers * 20 fighter-bombers * X missiles in flight is a lot of work for the server to track.
That really should have been considered and addressed in the design phase. Failing that definitely during testing.
Blame the six-month cycle. I can't help but think that it puts artificial constraints on the teams.
I didn't know whether to crosspost this in the old SPHERE thread or not, so here you are.
IT dude mad. Maz has no honur.
GM's favor Pandemic Legion
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard...02969&page=1#1
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
Lol, he called the pilot Abecirkel.
I'm stupider than usual today, what is the significance of Abecirkel?
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
Basically means Ape Circle in Danish. A "clever" way of referring to theMonkeysphere.
Is anyone still banned?
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