Reikoku Makes Its Own Luck - Part 6

[k]

Reikoku Macro User...

"Why Aren't You Banned?
- I'm in BoB"

September 2005

macro users banned
reported by GM Arkanon | 2005.09.15 14:47:13
Hello everyone.

Today, we moved against macro users on Tranquility. Macro use has been growing lately and we are well aware of the trend. We have been collecting data on those involved and biding our time, which has resulted in the macroers growing ever bolder and more visible. That makes our job much easier and for that I thank them.

Right now, we have banned over 100 accounts and we're nowhere nearly done yet. Although the players involved are welcome to contest the bans if they feel they have been unfairly targeted, I want to make one thing clear:

If we find that a player contesting his ban is only trying to bluff his way out of it, we will lengthen the ban. If it's your first offence, the ban will be doubled. If it's your second macroing conviction and you try to lie your way out of it, we will reward you with a permanent ban.

As you may have noticed, I don't much care for macroers. But that's not the point, this is:

EULA, section 7.a.(3):

(3) You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.

Those not banned today may rest assured that we will get them later.

All the best,

GM Arkanon

November 2005

From: DaraxThulain
To: haze
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:14 am
Subject: Regarding "ebil" Darax
Heya there.

I understand completely the reasons for my forum access revoke, esp since the uncertainty regarding my ban seems to be spreading like wildfire.
I am not gonna try to lie and say I didnt use a macro, I did use that. But I didnt use it in the normal type of way(Ie: macro miners) that created stuff and inflated prices etc etc. All my macro did was claiming 0.0 escrows. My ban is still pending as the GM transferred the case to a senior GM for reviewing.
What I am trying to say is that all hope is not lost, and that I am not a crook. And that I'd like forum Access as long as there is a slim hope that my acct can be recovered.

Regards, Darax

Big deal, the guy lost his RKK forum access and they kicked him out of RKK and he got banned by CCP...

Darax Thulain didn't get banned by CCP.

Darax Thulain is still in Reikoku (http://www.eve-search.com/index.dxd?...arax%20Thulain)

2007-01-21 21:05:00 Darax Thulain Reikoku Band of Brothers Minmatar
2006-07-30 05:35:00 Darax Thulain Minmatar
2006-05-20 20:38:00 Darax Thulain Reikoku Band of Brothers
2005-07-07 19:55:00 Darax Thulain Reikoku Band of Brothers.
2005-06-01 16:23:00 Darax Thulain Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
2005-04-24 14:44:00 Darax Thulain Masuat'aa Matari

"Proof or STFU"

[Raste]

But I didnt use it in the normal type of way(Ie: macro miners) that created stuff and inflated prices etc etc. All my macro did was claiming 0.0 escrows.

Seems an odd argument. I'd say that "0 isk escrow claiming" macroers were pretty normal and an obvious target in a macro crackdown.

[Nekumi]

A macro is a macro is a macro.

The hypocrisy of these guys is just astounding. When they used to attack goonfleet I honestly thought it was because they honestly believed that goons where hackers/exploiting, and where totally against it and I could kinda understand why they where such douches about it, but it turns out they just assumed goons where as bad as they where.

[Raste]

A macro is a macro is a macro.

All his did was add to the already dangerously high serverload by constantly querying the escrows, though. It wasn't like he was using it to make negligible isk while afk.

[Treylis]

This is particularly amusing in light of the posting on scrapheap-challenge, heh.

[icorion]

This is particularly amusing in light of the posting on scrapheap-challenge, heh.

link or get out

[Raste]

link or get out

think he's referring to:
http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=3010

[CAPTAIN THUNK]

He should have been banned, simple.

Everyone is surely well aware of the amount of mistakes made with the escrow system making anyone exploiting it a rich man, with a macro the only thing faster is another macro.

CAPTAIN THUNK

[Desi]

think he's referring to:
http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=3010

I'm trying to drill into j0sephines head the concept of evidence but damn she is having none of it, its all a conspiracy against poor old BoB.

[The Mittani]

I'm trying to drill into j0sephines head the concept of evidence but damn she is having none of it, its all a conspiracy against poor old BoB.

why bother

they are desperate and scared

is pointless

[Desi]

why bother

they are desperate and scared

is pointless

The joy of debate when you know you are right and the other person is dead wrong

[foozzee]

think he's referring to:
http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=3010

j0sephine's comment on page 4 is funny.

"you are taking his information as factual"

doh they claimed that kugutsumen had hacked their own forums to obtain the info.
if that doesnt confirm that the info is from bob's forum and correct then they are contradicting themselves.

[User Name]

I'm trying to drill into j0sephines head the concept of evidence but damn she is having none of it, its all a conspiracy against poor old BoB.

Oh god she's fucking retarded. "Um I personally don't accept your evidence on no basis other than I don't approve of the source and so corruption and wrongdoing don't matter and absolutely not be investigated.

[Alex Clomsaver]

How do we know that it was his Bobhood that caused him to be unbanned? If he was let off the hook I can see why they would let him back in the corp and forums.

[CAPTAIN THUNK]

What could possibly lead to him being let of the hook.

He cheated, BoB know he cheated as he admitted it.

Why is he being let off the hook?

He knew exactly what he was doing when he searched for, downloaded and installed a programme he knew was specifically so he could cheat at the game.

The PM he sent was to Haze, the director often cut out of the loop as he's not a Dev, so maybe he can explain why it's ok for BoB to cheat at a game.

If we find that a player contesting his ban is only trying to bluff his way out of it, we will lengthen the ban. If it's your first offence, the ban will be doubled. If it's your second macroing conviction and you try to lie your way out of it, we will reward you with a permanent ban.

I'm assuming that the Ban was not permanent and expired over time and this was when he rejoined the corp - a known cheater. So much for BoBs high principles :vomit:

CAPTAIN THUNK

[Nekumi]

How do we know that it was his Bobhood that caused him to be unbanned? If he was let off the hook I can see why they would let him back in the corp and forums.

He publicly admitted he was macroing and evading the ban by lying. I don't care if it was BoB or not.

[asdf123]

Looks to me like he received a temporary ban and then returned to the game, joining his old corp when he came back.

Anything wrong with that?

[Nekumi]

Looks to me like I received a temporary ban and then returned to the game, joining his old corp when he came back.

Anything wrong with that?

Freudian slip?

[Nekumi]

If he did receive the ban then it changes things.

[Kamiri]

Looks to me like I received a temporary ban

Hi Darax!

[CAPTAIN THUNK]

OK, the cheaters in BoB can stay....but the Devs have gotta go

(I may edit this statement at a future time as something about it looks wrong, although I can't quite put my finger on it)

[asdf123]

It really shouldn't matter since there could be several explanations for him not receiving a ban.

The OP simply quotes an old news item and then some internal affairs debate about RKK directors having a problem with one of their own using macros (which I see as a perfectly natural thing. I wouldn't want a macro user in my corp).

It then states, without any evidence, that the user never received a ban and somehow this is all connected to some conspiracy of devs helping BoB?

So what if he's still in Reikoku, what does that have to do with anything?

Riight.

[Nekumi]

It really shouldn't matter since there could be several explanations for him not receiving a ban.

The OP simply quotes an old news item and then some internal affairs debate about RKK directors having a problem with one of their own using macros (which I see as a perfectly natural thing. I wouldn't want a macro user in my corp).

It then states, without any evidence, that the user never received a ban and somehow this is all connected to some conspiracy of devs helping BoB?

So what if he's still in Reikoku, what does that have to do with anything?

Riight.

There are two segments on this forum that deals directly with developers and BoB. This isn't one of them. This is more about hypocrisy from a bunch of people who are holier than thou about how to play Eve being found to allow people who use macro'ers into their corp. It is speculative and designed to hurt their reputation. Hope that clears things up for you.

[k]

It really shouldn't matter since there could be several explanations for him not receiving a ban.

The OP simply quotes an old news item and then some internal affairs debate about RKK directors having a problem with one of their own using macros (which I see as a perfectly natural thing. I wouldn't want a macro user in my corp).

It then states, without any evidence, that the user never received a ban and somehow this is all connected to some conspiracy of devs helping BoB?

So what if he's still in Reikoku, what does that have to do with anything?

Riight.

http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread...=cheat#post772

I've never cheated, I've never witnessed those I fly with, cheat and I guarentee you that if I DID witness such a thing I would be first in line to petition it.

get out

[CAPTAIN THUNK]

This has nothing to do with devs

On one hand we have CAOD where BoB like to accuse people of cheating.

On the other BoB have a member who admits to cheating and he never left the corp and he was never kicked.

CAPTAIN THUNK

[The Mittani]

is funny how some contest kugu data

if kugu data was false, ccp would not investigate

kieron cant stop posting

bob cant stop crying

either way is no matter, those who refuse to hear will not hear

[goonygoon]

i like how j0sephine is talking about the goonfleet portrait pack like it was actually a modification to the client and everyone should've been banned for using it

completely ignoring the fact that the devs later told goons that the portrait pack was ok with them

[John Doe]

First, the GM post clearly states it was September, not October.

Second, no where in the GM post does it state that the player would be permabanned if this is his first offence. In fact, the only time permabanning is mentioned is if you have been banned for macroing before and you try and lie your way out of this ban. So, if this your second time and you don't try to lie, you still won't be permabanned.

Third, he specifically states he was banned. HE DOES NOT SAY HE WAS PERMABANNED. For all you know he told a director on IRC that the GMs weren't going to revoke it, so he would be banned for a week/two weeks/however long. As he wouldn't be able to login with his accounts, there would be no point kicking him from the corp but taking away his form access was a very sensible thing to do.

Forth, you are using EVE-Search to verify his in-game and corp status. EVE-Search monitors forum posts, and if he was banned he wouldn't be able to make any posts for the duration of the ban. Next time, take an in-game screenshot of his corp history if you want to prove a point like that.

Fith, Dian said he would petition it. What is the point of petitioning it when he has already been banned? Would be just another wasted petition in the queue. "Hey, you know that guy you banned for Macroing? Turns out he was macroing, so you did the right thing by banning him". What would be the point?

Sixth, a lot of BoB pilots are ex-m0o, and those of you who played the game back then will know the kind of "tricks" they got up to, so I have no idea where these "high-standards" and never letting anyone in with bans came from.

Seventh, read CCP's banning policy: http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_13.asp. First section (Exploits)

Severe offences may result in an immediate ban without warning; however, warnings may be given for first time offenses, followed by account suspensions of varying degree and ultimately a permanent ban if a player:

b. Is discovered to be employing the use of a third party program to macro illegally. Funds or goods received from the benefits of macroing are subject to removal from the player’s inventory.

What he was doing comes under that, and it explicitly states that he may recieve only a warning or a temp suspension.

That's pretty much all the holes and flaws I can pick in part 6. This really was an utter crock of shit, and I can only hope part 7 is worth the reputation you and this site have earnt.

[CAPTAIN THUNK]

Forth, you are using EVE-Search to verify his in-game and corp status. EVE-Search monitors forum posts, and if he was banned he wouldn't be able to make any posts for the duration of the ban. Next time, take an in-game screenshot of his corp history if you want to prove a point like that.

umm...I looked ingame kid.

May surprise you to know but past employment history doesn't change by itself. I think, just this once, I can skip the "Proof or STFU" screenshot as ...well....anyone can just look for themselves ingame, it's not hard. (he's not ex-moO btw)

So what you're saying is you can be in BoB cheating away so long as you aren't perm banned...makes sense if you follow that through now you mention it. If they were perm banned they'd definately have to leave the corp.

At least BoB aren't a bunch of hypocrites

CAPTAIN THUNK

[John Doe]

umm...I looked ingame kid.

May surprise you to know but past employment history doesn't change by itself. I think, just this once, I can skip the "Proof or STFU" screenshot as ...well....anyone can just look for themselves ingame, it's not hard. (he's not ex-moO btw)

So what you're saying is you can be in BoB cheating away so long as you aren't perm banned...makes sense if you follow that through now you mention it. If they were perm banned they'd definately have to leave the corp.

At least BoB aren't a bunch of hypocrites

CAPTAIN THUNK

So you are Kugutsumen? I was refering to his link to EVE-Search in the OP.

And what I am saying, is what is the point of any corp/alliance kicking someone else when they are already being punished by CCP? If CCP permabanned them then fine, kick them. If he was tempbanned for making lag bombs then maybe ban them. But for a macro that claims 0.0 escrows? Come off it. CCP took the action they thought was right, and the directors must have thought that he wasn't worth kicking over something as inconsiquential as that.

End of really.

[CAPTAIN THUNK]

I know people who have made billions of escrow picking up on mistakes which takes effort, I think you're well aware of how much can actually be made by such a macro for absolutely no effort. It certainly has far more effect than the portrait pack which BoB continually insisted warranted a permanent ban for all using it - this is the hypocrisy.

What this guy was doing was neither innocent nor harmless, please don't try and say it was.



CAPTAIN THUNK

[The Mittani]

What this guy was doing was neither innocent nor harmless, please don't try and say it was.



CAPTAIN THUNK

but he is bob and kugu is evil hacker

you see it is ok now?

[deadEd]

if kugu data was false, ccp would not investigate

How else would CCP find out if his data is false or not? Investigation is required to see if this data has anything behind it or if it's all just made up.

BoB's behaviour (denying it outright and trying everything they can to shift the focus onto the actual forum hacking rather than what was found) is making me lean very far towards it being real, but I'm certainly not going to deny it's possible a shit-disturber like anthonyz here could be making this all up just for kicks.

That said while his methods are sneaky, he's proven to have some truth behind what he finds in the past, so there's no real reason to just automatically assume its all false either. I'm in wait and see mode right now.

[Easy Kill]

:words:

The issue is that bob have stated publicly on numerous occasions that they do not allow people in thier allince who would cheat in the game. If he was banned for using a macro(temporarily or not) and they let him back into the alliance afterwords, they are in effect supporting his use of exploits.

Its kind of like in real world politics, if you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar, you get kicked from the party. It doesn't matter if you show remorse after the fact, the party will never let you back in as in the public's eyes they would be supporting your previous actions.

Fake Edit: Can we have :words: added please.

[Jargoon]

i like how j0sephine is talking about the goonfleet portrait pack like it was actually a modification to the client and everyone should've been banned for using it

completely ignoring the fact that the devs later told goons that the portrait pack was ok with them

It was so terrible and disruptive to game balance that CCP added it into Kali

[Sunshine]

It was so terrible and disruptive to game balance that CCP added it into Kali

Tell her we'll trade them the picturepack for their devs (with BPO:s).

[CaptainButts]

i hate BoB as much as anyone else does but this part is lackluster, is all the juicy stuff already out in the open?

[John Doe]

So how long until the final part? :P

[Ella Moany]

Guys, guys, guys nobody in BOB cheats and anyone that does wouldd have been banned. BOB are above cheating in a game and to imply that they do is just silly. They are clearly just better than you and you're making up a fake argument using things like "truth" and "proof" that are just moot on eve-o.

DBP flies with honor.

[User Name]

DBP flies with honor.

Everyone should put this in their eve-o sigs. It would remind me of BYOB, fake postin every time

[k]

If he did receive the ban then it changes things.

It doesn't change a thing. Macroer usually get permabanned and BoB claims they don't have known cheaters in their alliance.

[King Matt]

Agreed.

While not as sensational as earlier material it underscores the gross hypocrisy of the Band of Brothers.

Since when can you cheat "only a bit"?

If macroing for free escrows is a harmless past time then why is it illegal ingame at all? The simple reason this guy wasn't using it in a "bad" way, macroing for ore is because the ISK gained via macro mining in safe sec empire is negligible compared to the amounts on offer in mistaken escrows...oh, and he may well get seen sitting out in a belt

but we're all just jealous of BoB's successes amirite?

[ispywithmylittleye]

A macro is a macro is a macro.

The hypocrisy of these guys is just astounding. When they used to attack goonfleet I honestly thought it was because they honestly believed that goons where hackers/exploiting, and where totally against it and I could kinda understand why they where such douches about it, but it turns out they just assumed goons where as bad as they where.

No bob attacked goons for the whole smokse thing nothing to do with hacking lol

[King Matt]

No bob attacked goons for the whole smokse thing nothing to do with hacking lol

Actually there was a whole variety of reasons.
Some were saying it was because of "goon mentally", others said it was because "goon portrait pack is a cheat" and yet more said it was the lack of respect for smoske.

Looks to me no-one actually gave a fuck about smoske and were quite happy to use anything and everything available in order to create propaganda against their current enemy. Take a look at CAOD, this is what BoB always does. At the beginning of the ASCN war BoB were using notes ASCN had against RA and twisting it to appear as if ASCN were going to cheat to save themselves, the reality of the material BoB were using actually said ASCN would never use such tactics against BoB, only RA - guess that bit got missed in the copy and paste process.

Here BoB is a victim of it's own aggressive propaganda, some of them may have been genuinely upset about the smoske references, however because of their style it doesn't look like it, it just looks like convenient ammo especially as BoB had to search back several months on the CAOD in order to dig up the firstname lastname convo and provoke a response from the goons.

[Nekumi]

No bob attacked goons for the whole smokse thing nothing to do with hacking lol

Sorry I should clarify, when I say attack I mean the propaganda war. The allegations, the holier than thou attitude. I did not mean the smoske incident and please don't even get me started on that fucking shit.

[ispywithmylittleye]

Sorry I should clarify, when I say attack I mean the propaganda war. The allegations, the holier than thou attitude. I did not mean the smoske incident and please don't even get me started on that fucking shit.

eh?

The hypocrisy of these guys is just astounding. When they used to attack goonfleet I honestly thought it was because they honestly believed that goons where hackers/exploiting,

[Nekumi]

eh?

BoB where attacking and still are attacking goonfleet long before they parked their keisters in Syndicate. Attacking isn't necessarily a physical thing. I tried to clarify that for you.

[Alt]

BoB where attacking and still are attacking goonfleet long before they parked their keisters in Syndicate. Attacking isn't necessarily a physical thing. I tried to clarify that for you.

BoB are attacking?!

ohnoes! they have bigger spaceships

[goonygoon]

i remember one time when bob were roaming around syndicate in a big hac gang

we were ready for them in s-u and they ran away like the bitches they are

it was probably one of the funniest things i've ever seen in eve, bob running away from goonfleet

[dmx]

please to be posting part 7

this will make me happy.

or angry.

dmx.