Noir. "PL discussion"

[mazzilliu]

Tue Sep 07,

Provi update:

People were almost uniformly impressed at our fighting in KBP today, but participation from the rest of the region was bad. We had a meeting to get everyone on the same page going forward.

Now we're no 0.0 sov warfare alliance and we're not into "CTAs". But we do want "in" on beating up on PL for invading Providence and for making mercs look bad via scamming. Reputation we dont have much to lose challenging PL but there are some gains to be made if we can help stonewall then or push them back. Since the next employer doesnt want us to do his job this coming week (he lives in Provi) and the start date for the contract after is set, it's not like we have anything better to do so let's have some fun and whip Rainbow Coalition into shape.

Our Position:

PL's invasion violates the NIP and we will have our neighbors backs for as long as our contract schedule will allow. We cant even fathom why whether or not the alliances will support DK against PL has even come up as a point of discussion. That's the attitude i had going into the meeting and after much discussion and priority setting i think everyone that matters is now with us here.

Who's involved:

Everyone is with us except FIGL (who werent around to be asked) and SODACAISHO who will not fight. Standings with AAA, C02, and Agony are the only things that remain unsettled. Agony will likly remain neutral but lead gangs against PL, C02 will likly blue and participate but nothing is confirmed with either of them at this time. AAA will be blue shortly.

When Provi is strong:

EU TZ is a bit weak, especially compared to PL. Goal here should be to make PL work for everything, and get lots of fun fights like we had today.
US TZ has an immense presence between all the Provi alliances, and this is when we'll probably be going on the offense.

Point-men alliances:

EU TZ will be "led" by us, in partic by Sweet Julie. I convinced them he knows what he's doing ;p D'K and Jessie will be backups unless and until AAA fully commits
US TZ will be "led" by BDEAL, in partic Gavin Goodrich. If they decide to commit, AGONY will co-lead this TZ

What we're doing:

• Drakes w logi (like we did in KBP)
• Bombers for hit n runs (trying to destroy structures with torp bomber flash mods or setting up bomb runs)

AAA will prob dictate whatever they want fielded if/when they deploy their supercaptial assets, so standby for an addition to this list at some point.

Next Steps:

If you are in the wormhole, stay there until i post you can leave. We're still on contract. When i post we're done follow the below instructions.

Everyone who came out for KBP: Keep an eye out for posted ops and interesting looking fleets in fleet finder. Feel free to start your own fleets and invite people if nothing is going on, but fight smart. No one wants to throw away ships and we wont win a war of attrition vs PL. Get at least one Anaconda ship and at least one bomber (or support for a bomber gang) in Amarr. If you have nothing to do, move those ships up to Esescama and buy 2-3 spares.

Everyone, pay particular attention to the Anaconda gang discussion. Now that we are getting real data on how that gang works against large targets, and against the Fist, we can adjust fittings. The Anaconda was designed to fight the Fist, and we demonstrated that when we did that at range, it is extremely difficult to break with an ABing fleet. The discovery of scan resolution dampening is a welcome bonus, but we still need to stay on our toes - that HAC gang takes a lot more to kill, and we had stupid losses of squishy ships that were down to pilots herp derping and sitting in the middle of the combat group. There is no reason logistics and Recons should be following the Claymore at 500m, especially when a Fist gang is in system and they can get warpins. Use your own judgment and keep away from formations like that. You guys just cannot be lazy in fights like that.

ALL DRAKES: If you haven't already, start training for T2 Dampeners (Sensor Linking IV) and the Signal Suppression Skill, get that to level 3 at least (+15% effectiveness to Sensor Dampener Effectiveness). If you get time, train Target Painting to IV and Signature Focusing to 3 at least. (+15% effect of TPs)
BOMBERS: Primary Bomb type is Kinetic, secondary is EM. Despite what bomber you are, you must only bring these bombs.

we need definitetly more Logistic´s

as we cannot outnumber most of possible enemy Fleets in 0.0 we need a ratio of 1 Logi for 4 other Ships for non Contract Fleets.
The only way we can stay and fight agains the usual 0.0 Fleets of 30-40 Ships.

Logis Stay Logis. There is only one ship we have even more need for than the Drakes. And these are Logis :-)

ht*tp://noir.pinacoderm.com/alliancekb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15220

::coughs:: i dont think raiding HED is a productive way to convince aaa to help out with PL ^^

ops for ihub and station timers posted. Look for a bunch of POS defense fleets scattered throughout the day, Fc's try to get plugged into any you can as they're opportunities for kills.

Remember, dont throw ships away to PL. Engage in stand up fights if it looks like you can achieve the objective or defeat their gang, if you cant live to fight another day. Gank in the mean times

is this proper behaviour ?
i was campin some PL guys in Assah since Grunts. have war aginst them to harass in HS and Low i was just reading Local after getting blobbed and docked:

[13:02:30] kamarr vost > you awake ryu you asian basterd?

[13:04:30] Haack Mah > fucking nigger jew ass bitch cunt faggot fuckstain

[13:04:59] Haack Mah > kill your bitch ass self u worthless cum your mother should have swolloed

[13:08:18] Haack Mah > <b><url=showinfo:1378//191107780>Ryu Goto</url></b> eats bags of dicks for breakfast

[13:10:13] Haack Mah > cuntlips

Can we please kick the shit out of them today ? i was never offended like that in a local. i personally dont like to speak in local.

Petition it... period.
Why?! Offense and inapropiate language. That easy. I´ve been petitioned for calling someone "Latrine", as you might remember...

petition out, standard reply.

Yeah PL are known for thier smack, but what they wrote is a whole new low for them tbh.

Just petition it and hint at the GM that sort of shit should not be tolerated. Jeez these PL carebears take the game too seriously when the shoe is on the other foot :lol:

All that needs to be done is to escalate it and carry on gathering evidence if you get the standard reply. Obviously the guys a tool, and you should look to try and get him to run his mouth more and seal the deal. It IS PL though, so expect more of this. Maybe we should get them all banned. :P

[Cippalippus]

But we do want "in" on beating up on PL for invading Providence and for making mercs look bad via scamming. Reputation we dont have much to lose challenging PL but there are some gains to be made if we can help stonewall then or push them back.

lollllllll

[Vladic Ka]

THE MIGHTY NOIR!!!!

Who the fuck are they?

[RansomList]

A little Noir primer for Vladic (although I'm a couple of months out of date on the Provi situation and if NMG. has caused bloat problems with them):

Noir'.' are one of the better Merc groups in EVE, they are known for 0.0 contracts that charge by the kill and pride themselves on Killboard stats for a particular contract being the acid test for whether its been a success or not.

Noir. excel at brutalizing renters and smaller alliances and can pretty much shut down income generation for such, or rather for the average joes of such groups which is most of them. In Empire, they either achieve targets going completely inactive for the length of a contract (which may be all the employer wants) or causing EMpire corps/Alliances to collapse and fall apart under the strain. They know Empire aggression and wardec mechanics backwards and also carry out POS takedowns there.

Noir. are/were best at mobile/roaming warfare within a target region and all cloaky gangs, they are pretty terrible as far as capital deployment and use. They use shedloads of logistics ships if at all possible.

They have very strong links with the other merc corps/alliances of note.

Noir. leadership has a bit of an EGO and can act like it has a stick up its ass. Aleks can rage over very silly things if they make Noir. look like anything less than 'Pro Mercs'

Noir. run/ran a podcast that discussed current/past contracts in great detail and discussed important events in game, with guest hosts as/if appropriate.

[Vladic Ka]

Illusions of grandeur.

Ima piss in these guys cherios when the mop up is done.

[mazzilliu]

A little Noir primer for Vladic (although I'm a couple of months out of date on the Provi situation and if NMG. has caused bloat problems with them):

Noir'.' are one of the better Merc groups in EVE, they are known for 0.0 contracts that charge by the kill and pride themselves on Killboard stats for a particular contract being the acid test for whether its been a success or not.

Noir. excel at brutalizing renters and smaller alliances and can pretty much shut down income generation for such, or rather for the average joes of such groups which is most of them. In Empire, they either achieve targets going completely inactive for the length of a contract (which may be all the employer wants) or causing EMpire corps/Alliances to collapse and fall apart under the strain. They know Empire aggression and wardec mechanics backwards and also carry out POS takedowns there.

Noir. are/were best at mobile/roaming warfare within a target region and all cloaky gangs, they are pretty terrible as far as capital deployment and use. They use shedloads of logistics ships if at all possible.

They have very strong links with the other merc corps/alliances of note.

Noir. leadership has a bit of an EGO and can act like it has a stick up its ass. Aleks can rage over very silly things if they make Noir. look like anything less than 'Pro Mercs'

Noir. run/ran a podcast that discussed current/past contracts in great detail and discussed important events in game, with guest hosts as/if appropriate.

so what you mean is, now these guys arent killing macro ravens like they're used to they're getting their ass handed to them. we have hardly any "income generation" operations and even if all our ratters got shut down it wouldnt matter to us as a whole.

[Yorda]

Noir are a mid-level alliance that specialize on beating up low level alliances, PL are a high level alliance that beat up mid-level alliances.

Guess where this is going.

[RansomList]

Noir are a mid-level alliance that specialize on beating up low level alliances, PL are a high level alliance that beat up mid-level alliances.

Guess where this is going.

Truthiness? It might generate some nice tears and damage some Ego's and reputations.

Noir. isn't really a mid level alliance (we are talking numbers when you get right down to it right? Ambiguous term really as I'd quite happily call huge but fucking terrible alliances 'low level'), unless as i said, there has been some serious bloat going on?

Why cant Atomic Battle Penguins come back

[Dinique]

Noir. are/were best at mobile/roaming warfare within a target region and all cloaky gangs.

hahaha, lets just say I doubt the shit out of that.

[Wusti]

Noir. leadership has a bit of an EGO and can act like it has a stick up its ass.

No, really?

[Murr]

Noir. isn't really a mid level alliance

I don't think he meant numbers only with mid-level, but experience, efficiency, all-around capabilities on offense/defense etc. And he's right. Focusing on beating low-level alliances such as renters/pets isn't very difficult, what a good corp does on a random roaming gang, you emphasize on it as daily practice. Big deal.

Btw, where the fuck you've been?

[RansomList]

I don't think he meant numbers only with mid-level, but experience, efficiency, all-around capabilities on offense/defense etc. And he's right. Focusing on beating low-level alliances such as renters/pets isn't very difficult, what a good corp does on a random roaming gang, you emphasize on it as daily practice. Big deal.

Btw, where the fuck you've been?

Yeah i figured he didn't just mean numbers.

Computers, gaming and internet spaceships usually take a back seat to the fact its Summer, that and i dont get to see my family and most of my eldest and best friends at all for most of the year unless i travel then and when I have a 9-5 that's what i spend my spare time doing. The last month or so has just been crazy busy.

[sacul]

Why cant Atomic Battle Penguins come back

They are called Nibbletek now

[Elendar]

We killed some Noir carriers once when we were in delve. Other than that i don't think we've actually fought them yet in providence? maybe a few of them showed up for some of the proviblob defences of the CSAAs in KBP but i don't really remember seeing them.

[HUN73R]

Noir'.' are one of the better Merc groups in EVE, they are known for 0.0 contracts that charge by the kill and pride themselves on Killboard stats for a particular contract being the acid test for whether its been a success or not.

While we're on the matter. I don't see NOIR doing shit much, they have nice stats on eve-kill, but most of the time they are not alone, they fly T1 ships, it doesn't seem they can handle even a couple of carriers alone, I can hardly see what they can do, apart from adding numbers to someone's fleet.
What other significant merc groups are there? I can hardly think of anyone. Everyone can go harass some farmers on the belts, but is there a merc group that can do any significant damage to an alliance? And sup with the new MC?

[Arkady Sadik]

While we're on the matter. I don't see NOIR doing shit much, they have nice stats on eve-kill, but most of the time they are not alone, they fly T1 ships, it doesn't seem they can handle even a couple of carriers alone, I can hardly see what they can do, apart from adding numbers to someone's fleet.

Noir only has 176 members, so they can't really do much beyond "adding numbers" for the big fights. They specialize in harassment tactics and are quite good at that, so if you want to harass someone, they're a good choice. I particularly loved how they were hired for Providence and did some "propaganda" for the employer, too - and I don't min smacktalking in local in a competition on who gets gagged first.

What other significant merc groups are there? I can hardly think of anyone. Everyone can go harass some farmers on the belts, but is there a merc group that can do any significant damage to an alliance? And sup with the new MC?

Pandemic Legion is probably the biggest one, and also the only one that will really help with sov warfare. Not sure what MC (new) is up to, so far I've seen them in Pure Blind fielding sniper Tempests, I guess they're still trying to find together in the new alliance. The other "big" merc groups are primarily empire only. The 0rphanage (357 members) is the Privateers successor, aka "Jita denial". Paradigm Alliance (103 members, Maelstrom Crew's alliance) and Focused Intentions (58 members) are other quite ok merc groups, for their size. Which is, not very relevant in 0.0.

Not sure where this supposed "age of the mercenary" is where merc groups supposedly do all the fighting for pure non-combat alliances, but the existing merc groups sure haven't grown enough for that idea.

[Dinique]

They specialize in harassment tactics and are quite good at that, so if you want to harass someone, they're a good choice.

I still don't see where anyone gets this idea, or why they'd believe it.

[HUN73R]

I too cannot understand what you mean by harassment. Killing few people on belts isn't harassment, atleast not on alliance level. Maybe make few people more careful when ratting, but how is any of these groups gonna affect an evem small sized alliance (< 400 members) is beyond me.

Yeah, PL are the obvious exception, but they are not playing your version of mercenaries.

[Arkady Sadik]

I still don't see where anyone gets this idea, or why they'd believe it.

Well, I'm not sure how to "discuss" this here, as I don't think it's easy to measure "being good at harassment". Whatever argument is brought forward is easily countered by stating "that is not real harassment" or similar.

Looking through Noir's past campaigns, you can find typical 0.0 harassment campaigns with 10+ kills a day. As those will be mostly ratters, and not big fleet battles, they can provide quite a strain on the average non-purely-pvp alliance member.

If your goal is to kill careless ratters and make logistics for the individual pilot difficult, they're doing quite a good job at it. In combination with an actual threat, this can add up nicely. On their own, I doubt they'd be able to hurt any medium-sized 0.0 alliance much if at all.

[RansomList]

The reason Merc groups in EVE haven stepped up to the plate regarding 0.0 to the point they can make or break entire regions or mid-large Alliances is simple- the amount they would have to charge an employer is simply not feasible. Especially taking into account that a Merc alliance has a fixed pool of people to call on, whereas your average 0.0 alliance has either a horde of shitty pets to lag a system to death or outnumber your expensive t2 gang 20:1- or is one of aforementioned miserable pets that has a sugardaddy to hide behind (although often they discover that sugardaddy actually despises them and lets them half die before doing anything, or realizes how terrible said pets are for dying to a merc group they outnumber 10:1 and cuts them loose).

Of course, if moving pilots around en masse was harder in EVE all this would change...no more jump bridges, JF's, titan bridges etc... and people having to find WH routes from one side of the map to the other. Then a small group can cripple a specific area and melt away before a response, rather than get zerged by n+1 pets.

EDIT: And no, i dont think PL is a 'real' Merc Alliance. For a start, i doubt the sanctity of a contract (gods what a poor phrase) means shit to them and for them pvp isn't simply something that happens to fulfill a contract.

[Dinique]

EDIT: And no, i dont think PL is a 'real' Merc Alliance. For a start, i doubt the sanctity of a contract (gods what a poor phrase) means shit to them and for them pvp isn't simply something that happens to fulfill a contract.

SNIGG used to be very much into space-honoure, and I believe ransoms are still sacrosanct to SNIGG in particular. As far as words in space go, Shamis' is pretty damn good. Just ask Dungar.

PL has taken several contracts over the years, Noobjuice seemed to receive requests for POS takedowns on a weekly basis. I must be missing all the disgruntled clients posting everywhere.

[John Smith]

EDIT: And no, i dont think PL is a 'real' Merc Alliance. For a start, i doubt the sanctity of a contract (gods what a poor phrase) means shit to them and for them pvp isn't simply something that happens to fulfill a contract.

SNIGG have a long history of being guns for hire dating back to before Pandemic legion. I believe it even started out as a mercenary corp in 2003, but soon found pirating to be a little more fun. There have been a number of high profile times when the corp has been hired, including the invasion of branch, fighting for IAC against MC and fighting for ASCN against BOB.

Once OMNOR joined PL and were later assimilated into the bigger corps, the guys with a very strong reputation for their merc work(Noobjuice, Crusari, Captain thunk), would manage to get us smaller contracts during our down times. Only on one of these occasions was an employer unhappy and that were due to some really weird circumstances(his account got banned for RMT, unable to pay us, we took the goods we had spent a month transporting into 0.0 for a large scale invasion as payment), on the rest of these occasions everyone was fully satisfied. If you have the money to hire Pandemic Legion, believe me when I say, we take it very seriously.

[Mr Coloredshirt]

hire

[Dinique]

higher

hi, you are higher than high if you think anyone is going to hire you to handle our advertising campaign :3

[John Smith]

give me a break ive got a hang over