They could have been burning Bobby Atlas in effigy but it wouldn't have meant they'd have invaded if Atlas wasn't so isolated. Atlas's vassals were scattered to the fucking wind and its allies were obviously not going to be much help. The Russians saw weakness and exploited it.Originally Posted by Dental Floss
ATLAS was under no threat from RA/XIX, even in their state 3 months ago. It took WN stating they wanted to push ATLAS out of their home before RA/XIX took even a step in that direction. The combined forces of WN/RA/XIX were still making no reasonable progress except for some abandoned stations when CoW and GC left, not to mention that their 5(?) attempts at C-J were halted without huge losses from either side.
There is no magic in this, I don't know why people keep stating otherwise.
I knew everything all along, am just saying =/ Dastomy seems a bit slow on posting the list of corps leaving, so I kinda had to remind him.
About a year ago, myself, UAxDEATH and Bobby Atlas had a conversation about Atlas' view on the Drone Lands. Bobby said he has no intention on fighting us for sov/b-7 and would rather stay as we are and roam each other. Frankly, I didnt expect anything else, not to sound cocky or anything, but Drone Lands would be hard to take/fight through for anybody, especially in the current sov mechanics. Think of it as Bastion Drone Empire. Taking Insmother however, would prove easily achievable.
That said, bringing down Atlas was a simple task on paper. I knew very well Atlas' weaknesses, I also knew how much they would bring to their ops and how to tire them out to lose their numbers. I have also knew of their capital fleet count and pilots. Utilizing the means I had there was only one problem. PL and GS that were fighting Atlas pets and Atlas, alliances I have been friendly with for quit some time and who moved to Curse while I was convincing leadership/allies to go with my plans. With GS it was simple, they had their fun and where relocating into TCF space, but PL... 2 options, keep them neutral, or negotiate for them not to get involved while we engage Atlas. Negotiations with Shamis failed, but before I knew it, UAxDEATH got involved and PL was hired. 1month and 16 days late, Atlas surrendered.
Edit: note WN isnt mentioned here as their involvement wasnt part of the original goals.
Krutoj CSM ALT 2011
[SPOILER=Krutoj the Destroyer][IMG]http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/2917/krut.jpg[/IMG][/SPOILER]
You had a choice, ie, not surrender or negotiate out the disband clause. Bobby was right in a sense, if people aren't prepared to fight for their shit then they deserve to lose it. The decision was made to benefit the few at the cost of the entire alliance. Atlas deserves to be dead and stay dead for that alone.
According to Mala you're just trying to stroke your ego here. :P
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
Yep, better they lose all their asset and those super caps instead of everyone get to evac while give up some super cap. At least they keep some honor (while everyone laugh at all their internal drama/crying/etc on the forums).
maybe so, but I was trying to tell everyone how it went down. When you read what I said, you get the feeling that we had it easy and that Atlas didnt put up much of a fight, but if you compare that with what actually happened overall in the campaign, then your feeling will be reaffirmed. 1month and 16 days to take down and disband an allance covering 3 regions, this is madness!
So excuse me if I worded it out like that, but its exactly how it reads.
Krutoj CSM ALT 2011
[SPOILER=Krutoj the Destroyer][IMG]http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/2917/krut.jpg[/IMG][/SPOILER]
Heh, why am I not surprised you couldn't let that pass uncommented? Krutoj outlining his plans is a difference than Czech making hindsight statements about how Atlas never should've joined MAX2, judged on by events that happened AFTER MAX2. Also Krutoj wasn't active on these boards pre and during MAX2, Czech was, but I honestly cannot recall him giving advices about Atlas should go for the russians. And Eris knows he seldomly hesitates to give such advises.
Nontheless I do sense a bit of ego-stroking smugness in Krutoj's post nontheless. Then again the second part of his post includes PL and GS being active out from Curse, which obviously is a post-max2 event. And well...
I think he earned being smug about it.
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
Mala, something tells me you think I disagree with you when I don't. I do, in fact, concur completely.
for Mala and Securitas
Krutoj CSM ALT 2011
[SPOILER=Krutoj the Destroyer][IMG]http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/2917/krut.jpg[/IMG][/SPOILER]
Your perception is right there, I indeed actually thought you were disagreeing with me (or rather the notions Quesa and Hratli expresssed, since I was just adding one-liners supporting their callouts until your post). Apologies for misunderstanding and nontheless thanks for making me post something above a useless contentless shitpost then.
You better ask Phreeze on how to do it right, man.Destroyer on the pixel-battlefield but limp on the forums. That'll be your downfall!
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
It's not madness. ATLAS was a rotten structure. The only leadership member worth anything (Bobby) was gone, morale was shit, we continuted to cling to outmoded methodologies, nobody cared about PvP, and there was no sense of solidarity. If ATLAS had a coherent leadership structure, with good FC's and effective leadership, I would be impressed. Instead, all you did was put a sick animal out of its misery. Congratulations.
Well, if nothing else they seized an opportunity... Nobody knocking at -A-'s door big time currently or SC failing to capitalize of the weak NC that TRI and Atlas faced in January this year should indicate that it's nothing everyone is always capable of.
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
Here I would like to quote an atlas member, who is perhaps one of the rare few who understood Gloria Khan's intentions. Good on you mate.
WE, didn't cut it. How many primary staging points do you have to lose before you realize hey, Lets try this again? Its great to dance around and yodel about honor now but as someone eloquently put it honor is for the battlefield not the after-judgement. Nice of you to complain as you evac your assets
And nice of you to think of your own selfishness while other alliance members had 80% of their assets still stuck in 0-w/axdx/C-J (All bubbled and camped at the same time).
I find this deal to be a great statement that we are in competent hands.
Krutoj CSM ALT 2011
[SPOILER=Krutoj the Destroyer][IMG]http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/2917/krut.jpg[/IMG][/SPOILER]
Krutoj is the shit btw. My russian brotha from another motha.
Russians don't have mothers. They hatch from Matryoshka dolls.
Best partIts great to dance around and yodel about honor now but as someone eloquently put it honor is for the battlefield not the after-judgement. Nice of you to complain as you evac your assets
So lets take this first. Of course mistakes can happen, all authors are hammered to always post references, if they use them from other sites. Evenews24 is very fresh site, i still consider it beta, as it is like 20 days old. So lots of new guys, and some of them are not that experienced. However i take note and will everyone remind once more, to always post references, when they use tehmit.I wouldn't go that far, they are putting a lot ofinto it, all those banners and hurf blurf 24/7 but for the love of god it would be just peeerfect if they could state bloody references every now and then.
Just look what happened to eve-kill.net
As a side note, sometimes the news sources are different, same situation or chat logs go to different people and than to the site. Again, i want to keep it clean and fair, so it is good you remind me of the problems that naturally arise in every project.
Kugu is different site, thats why i don´t care about forums there, as kugu excels in that. Evenews is about clear overview on whats going on, without going through tons of posts. And let everyone chose what they like more, and some bigger articles are linked to kugu so people discuss it here.
As for using Dotlan, Dotlan owner supports the site and all links correctly posted to his site. YOu wouldn´t have to report much if you wouldn´t look at alliance live updates and sov changes. Approx 8-10 updates among other content go on the side. The number of people reading all the news is quit staggering and way more than anything i ever imagined.
Some authors if they won´t post references will end and be replaced by others, which are willing to contribute.
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QFT
and this is something kugu completedly lacks.
All this e-honour bullshit and focus on the supers - what a load of shit. I have no doubt they considered that - but by everyone's admission Atlas was already dead. In that siutation the last order from a dyign command can and SHOULD be to serve the interests of the grunts - they would appear to have done that. e-Honour arguments only apply if they were to then try and go on and re-build/continue on in some way, which clearly wasn't the case.
On that basis, Czech you're wrong mate - and whilst I think Mal is being harsh - predicting this stuff AHEAD of time should be your next party trick.
So lets go to politics. Ofc after the battle, everyone is general and can talk his ass out, how he knew that or this. When the 5 way attack was announced, on paper it was very impressive adn even i was thinking, that NC might die this time (or be pushed out for some time). Than after reading Atlas forums it was clear wtf is gonna happen and what one of the biggest problems of Geminate campaign was.
Atlas chose the campaigns by "fun" not by usefullness for alliance future and that was a big mistake. Geminate was a success as you had taken old enemies on board and used TRIZOO Pure Blind bonanza, plus to be honest some early wtf lag+game shit mechanics (like some of the Razor blackscreen rapes that in MAX2 hit Atlas so hard). The fights were fun and everyone was pumped, however what Atlas gained out of it? Experience and fun? Cool, but they gave Russian a region on plate as they didn´t want it.
MAX2 again, lets go after good fights, but why would people fight, if there is nothing to gain, no plan to hold the territory, get highends, supercaps, disbands, tears, etc. You can go on roadtrips if your space is 100% safe and so you can waste resources, fc´s and peoples stamina without limits.
PL has no space, so they cant really be hit and they dont have to care about jew empire, or any defense. As long as you have home, you have to ask, who can come and burn it down or try to do it. NC wouldnt do it as the hatred to Atlas was never so strong as like by Goons or Drone Russians.
Bob/Kenzoku/IT...yeah i could see many in NC going the extra mile to finish em off, if the chance is there. And for Atlas the only enemy wanting to go extra mile were the russians and that since drone wars.
The whole campaign was flawed due to not brining anything back to Atlas, the only campaing that would have any gain for Atlas was Drone space as it would add space, borderzone and postpone any russian invasion for a year at least. A preemptive attack on maybe not the most popular target, but most valid one.
The true reason why Atlas or so many others dont fight Drone space isnt that the space is useless (its is unless you want really take care of it with renters and supercap builds). It is people not seeing it fun to fight russians in general. Wrong TZ, which means us/euro tz alliance wont have the battles and if they know the other side wakes up at 3am to be there, when everony else says fuck this. Thats why Bobby made the NIP in vain attempt to not go to fight the most resilient enemy in game ever more after they got kicked out of Drones.
You have to understand that Atlas was fighting the same enemy for year+ and for every gain they made against the crumbling drone alliances, russians took 2. Krutoj is right, that you could extrapolate how long Atlas will hold up just with CTA´s as there i prolly not other group in eve that would for 9 times invade the same system and i am sure they would do it for 50times if needed. As it is not logic or sane to do this in game, it is trully the extra mile that makes that like RL combat.
This was the reason Atlas haven´t attack drones, or dared to try them with a pole from 20 feet, lack of good and fun fights. Compare it to NC, where everyone awaits the blob, but like now, you get at least 200-300 people getting killed due to being normal casual carebears, that die a lot. Which is much more fun, than looking at cta after cta not knowing when you see 20 titans logging at the same time in your secure timezone and raping you.
You will see tons of excuses, but most people are actually scared of Drone space, so came with the excuse its not worth it, lets generate some better tears from people we can understand and crush. Fighting russians is not about fun, its about determination and it would be weird that westerners would have that in game.
Atlas mistake was a repeat one from drones, trying to evade the russians and just not fighting them, giving themselves sense of power by going after all non russian entities with smashkill till they were slain. Goons humiliated Atlas a lot, however the biggest battles that costed Atlas+smashkill in the end were fought with Solar/xdeath even before. Those have taken too much humanware out.
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You too fast Wustiboy. And Mala is not harsh, this is free forum and i respect every opinion, actually iam very happy people discuss this topic. Even if they dont or do agree with me.
Your job as a leader, in game or in RL, is to look forward and recognize what impact your decision will have towards the end goal you try to achieve. Sometimes its not the most popular choice, or the most logic one. Sometimes people wont understand first, but thank you a year later. If you put that in RL politics, if you wouldnt care, lets just take the whole budget and give it to all people on the 1st january of the year, would people love you for that? Absolutely, cash never smells. On day 2 when there would be no money for police, healthcare a other important stuff, they would hate you.
Peoples opinion is nice, but just going by popularity contests wont work long term. So as leader you need to have balls and charisma to make the others believe, you know why, how and what for.
If the goal was to kill the alliance, and make it bite the dust, than they did it. But They also killed the overall morale and feelings, and expect many people to simply stop playing due to this, as if they were part of family for 2-3 years only to be sold out by leadership being told its for their good, i would stop playing too. Its not about assets and isk, its about other values in the game to make you keep playing and that were lost for all 3000 people outside of the 20 cap builders or so, as they cared only for the cupercaps.
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Heh <3 Czech - still like reading your posts and relish the chance to finally call you out :P
EDIT: oh and I've been away drinking and conferencing so onyl just caught up since pre-DDOS :P
We got DDOS's again? Jesus christ :/
Twitter: @WidotVenetianT - RIP Vile Rat.
In other news, DTHI's app was accepted into PL.
Hello soon to be brosefs! 0/
pl is bob:yar
Let's do this.
You always appear in most surprising moments.
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Fair enough for the most part, but...
You have listed a lot of reasons why the russians aren't touched/avoided, yet I am missing what Atlas would have gained in fighting the drone russians eventually? Sure, space to rent out would they have succeeded. But alone the vast area that are the drone regions require you to walk not just the proverbial 1 extra mile but rather 10. You have mentioned a lof of reasons why fighting russians can be quite a "morale-killer" or at least not really entertaining, yet do you think those reasons magically would have disappeared when Atlas would've gone on the offense?The whole campaign was flawed due to not brining anything back to Atlas, the only campaing that would have any gain for Atlas was Drone space as it would add space, borderzone and postpone any russian invasion for a year at least. A preemptive attack on maybe not the most popular target, but most valid one.
The true reason why Atlas or so many others dont fight Drone space isnt that the space is useless (its is unless you want really take care of it with renters and supercap builds). It is people not seeing it fun to fight russians in general. Wrong TZ, which means us/euro tz alliance wont have the battles and if they know the other side wakes up at 3am to be there, when everony else says fuck this. Thats why Bobby made the NIP in vain attempt to not go to fight the most resilient enemy in game ever more after they got kicked out of Drones.
You have to understand that Atlas was fighting the same enemy for year+ and for every gain they made against the crumbling drone alliances, russians took 2. Krutoj is right, that you could extrapolate how long Atlas will hold up just with CTA´s as there i prolly not other group in eve that would for 9 times invade the same system and i am sure they would do it for 50times if needed. As it is not logic or sane to do this in game, it is trully the extra mile that makes that like RL combat.
This was the reason Atlas haven´t attack drones, or dared to try them with a pole from 20 feet, lack of good and fun fights. Compare it to NC, where everyone awaits the blob, but like now, you get at least 200-300 people getting killed due to being normal casual carebears, that die a lot. Which is much more fun, than looking at cta after cta not knowing when you see 20 titans logging at the same time in your secure timezone and raping you.
You will see tons of excuses, but most people are actually scared of Drone space, so came with the excuse its not worth it, lets generate some better tears from people we can understand and crush. Fighting russians is not about fun, its about determination and it would be weird that westerners would have that in game.
Atlas mistake was a repeat one from drones, trying to evade the russians and just not fighting them, giving themselves sense of power by going after all non russian entities with smashkill till they were slain. Goons humiliated Atlas a lot, however the biggest battles that costed Atlas+smashkill in the end were fought with Solar/xdeath even before. Those have taken too much humanware out.
Pretty much all of the gains you listed would have been rather short-living ones if any, at least from my pov and judgement. Undoubtly we're entering the sphere of theocrafting and what-ifs here, so who knows what really would've happened. Maybe once we're able to dive into parallel universes we'll be able to tell, and even then I hope we aren't that sad and sorry creatures to care only about the alternative histories of a videogame... But i'm getting sidetracked.
I fail to see the gain here except for making people that are spaceship-mad at you even more mad at you. Under a bit different conditions Atlas could've had a good time up North despite MAX2 failing, ROL and INIT are a good example that it was possible. I guess even IT pilots could enjoy it for the most time up till H-W. Atlas/CoW/GC had bad luck with the nodes in Vale on top of all other issues.
Going for XIX/Solar may have been the variant with more potential gain, but given the NC's performance in January, MAX2 probably had a way better chance of succeeding, easily outperforming the expected risk/reward ratio of a drone-campaign for Atlas. And you will agree with me that you don't start a campaign you expect to fail at.
Finally, and regarding all the "hindsight"-argument...
These two statements rather do give the impression of at least questioning - to avoid the word "blame" - the decision of not going for them.
Yes, you just listed a reasons why from your pov it would have been a better idea, but, as Hratli said it, it's a bid unfair blaming (sigh, now I said it anyways) Atlas for not knowing it better back then.
Now I don't know when you read those Atlas forums (pre-Max2, when it was all set up already, a week after it started, a month before? - No need to specify but for the "I (could have) told you before"-credibility speech it bears some significance), but it seems like you were, before it started, not so critical as you are in the above quotes. Which is the point I - and if I might be so bold assuming - Hratli and Propagandas were aiming at in our respective ways.When the 5 way attack was announced, on paper it was very impressive adn even i was thinking, that NC might die this time (or be pushed out for some time). Than after reading Atlas forums [...]
EDIT: And I guess it's needless to say that Atlas' chances of keeping their space were way higher with their buffer regions still intact, which they were pre-MAX2 and except for parts of Wicked Creek still after MAX2. So the "russian thread level" rose with the loss of the buffer zones after MAX2, not before.
You neither keep your first nor ever get your second armchair general star when you can't take the forum heat, m8. :P But I think Czech's handling it rather well; given he's even active ingame again apparently he might be running for a third one even.
There goes the neighbourhood. I guess simply asking Viper to come back was too easy, eh.
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
I don't know what you are going on about because you are talking about two completely different times and campaigns.
How is it you can completely overlook the first year of ATLAS's existence in the South? As if we just strolled in and UNR gave us Omist and we just asked XIX for Detorid. You seem to forget that the Geminate campaign was the first "fun" campaign that we embarked on after the Drone Regions - and why SHOULDN'T have ATLAS picked something fun to do in a VIDEO GAME?
ATLAS's primary motivation for going to Geminate was for fun and some fights, we got it and we left. There wasn't any feasable way that the North could be attacked at the time. TRI+WN participation was dropping like a 2 ton truck off a cliff as their FC's needed to do RL stuff and their members participation was dropping due to post-Dominion lag. Despite what you may think, that campaign was one of the more enjoyable times in ATLAS for the MAJORITY OF THE PLAYER-BASE, which is something the leaders always tried to give.
Max2 wasn't really something we called a roadtrip. It was supposed to be a full on deployment but as most saw within the first few months, member participation (Southern Coalition wide) was down. ATLAS suffered from having a leader that only led when it suited him or when he needed someone to yell at, whelp.
I'll admit the Goon/ATLAS thing but ATLAS had a respectful relationship with XIX/Solar. The NIP you brought up in a previous post (I think it was you) was started before we went up North, for the second time, so that we wouldn't have to worry about an invasion. I seem to remember some RA pets dropping some TCU's in Insmother during the start of the war that were "diplomatically" removed (what I remember of that small incident that I really didn't care about).
It wasn't just unpopular, it was also considered a terrible idea due to the current amount of hostiles in the area. Seriously, how many regions would you have expected ATLAS to have as a buffer? 2? 3? 10? I suspect that even if we would have taken the next region AFTER INSMOTHER, you would have said that wasn't even enough.
ATLAS Leadership vowed that they'd never put us back into the Drone Regions. The mere mention of even getting drone space was met with immediate upheaval by the leadership that was present during our stay in the Drone Regions.
ATLAS has and would have continued to do just fine versus XIX/RA and even drawn out a WN+XIX/RA invasion as we saw in C-J for the first Month until PL was contracted.
Wow man, you really are full of shit. I can't believe you actually believe the stuff you are saying. ATLAS has been in conflict with the Drone Russians for MOST OF IT'S EXISTENCE.This was the reason Atlas haven´t attack drones, or dared to try them with a pole from 20 feet, lack of good and fun fights. Compare it to NC, where everyone awaits the blob, but like now, you get at least 200-300 people getting killed due to being normal casual carebears, that die a lot. Which is much more fun, than looking at cta after cta not knowing when you see 20 titans logging at the same time in your secure timezone and raping you.
You will see tons of excuses, but most people are actually scared of Drone space, so came with the excuse its not worth it, lets generate some better tears from people we can understand and crush. Fighting russians is not about fun, its about determination and it would be weird that westerners would have that in game.
XIX taking Chaos space was very healthy for our PvP experience as well as adding numerous seasoned pilots and capital owning members to our Alliance. XIX were also VERY fun to have as neighbors.
ATLAS's involvement in campaigns with SMASH and RK were pretty limited. The TRI campaign (LOL), the BQO pocket when DMC got booted by their Russian overlords and the fight in ED space. At that time, ATLAS didn't have the capital numbers or the competence to take on a seasoned Russian alliance.
This is the e-honour bullshit people are talking about. ATLAS leadership did right for the grunts at the expense of the alliance which was, for all intensive purposes, dead before the deal got put on the table. They may have kept the alliance name BUT it was already 1 foot in the grave.
Czech, I really think you lost your critical thinking edge in the last few weeks.
If you hadn't noticed, czech is something of a PL fanboi, and this is tainting his ability to post objectively
Liking PL at the moment is akin to being a Man Utd fan. Its a quick easy way to be a winner. Once somone else starts taking names they quckly change.
czech's opinions aside he gets 5 gold * for eve news 24. Stops me having to rifle through pages of shit for cliff notes.
Gicer.
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
Hello fags I've decided to drop by and join the PL recruitment forums I mean Kugutsumen.com
Czech, I've always read your posts with lot of interest because you always seem quite reasonable about things but I think on this one you're off the ball. When I was in Atlas Leadership attacking the Drone regions was always put down because of a number of reasons, Quesa has put it quite right by saying how the leadership always tried to look for "fun" campaigns for the people after the grinds of the Southeast. Attacking the Drone regions was a PITA for a number of reasons and even if we had succeeded we'd have ended up with a 100,000,000 bazillion light years circunference of blue entities around us so there was little gain for a (admittedly less so at the end, but always hoping to be) pvp alliance.
my my, all those walls of text. Cant we just leave the past alone?
Krutoj CSM ALT 2011
[SPOILER=Krutoj the Destroyer][IMG]http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/2917/krut.jpg[/IMG][/SPOILER]
Now that would be boring, wouldn't it.
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
As a Greenock Morton fan and a goon who joined when we were getting hammered by BoB who also stayed loyal to Liverpool when Benitez was apparently conducting a transfer policy based on the entrails of goats, I can nod sagely and agree with this trenchant criticism.
I must admit that it would be nice to be in a "it's Tuesday, we always kill a mothership on Tuesdays" alliance. But it would be nice to see Morton win the premier league too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to swap my allegiance to the Huns.
I am actually blogging again at: http://endie.net Twitter: @EndiePosts
How all the PI working for you?
I thought my posts were long-winded.
It just struck me that back at the start of 2007 Lotka Volterra lasted almost exactly the same length of time defending almost the same regions from the RSF invasion, having similarly left their junior partners/pets/whatever to die in Wicked Creek and Scalding Pass beforehand.
The resemblance is almost uncanny.
He's riding a bike, while waiting for his free titan donation from Atlas. Krutoj is human too.
I am from Greenock. No troll. Larkfield.
Interesting comparison, likening PL to the Huns.
Sidenote, this is the first time I've seen Quesa get fired up. He always comes off so relaxed in his BRs on SHC.
Anyway, it's important to remember that PL aren't the only ones who currently enjoy a reputation of having strong participation, highly skilled players, and highly skilled FCs. The difference between them and entities like those torching pure blind is that they're not rooted in any one place, making it easy for them to roam far and wide looking for supers to kill. That and they seem to have spies everywhere.
Edit: I also wonder what it would be like to see a PL gang face off with a gang of similar caliber from, say, Agony or D00M rather than fighting a leaderless atlas or hta.
History is doomed to repeat itselfJust this time with a bigger faggot not at the wheel.
WTF double post I hate reading kugu from a laggy ipod
The kugu-Quesa in 95% of cases is a very different one from the one you'll read on SHC, no idea why though.
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
Leave Queasa alone, he's cool.
The SHC one yeah. On kugu he's letting the bitter twin out every now and often.Leave Queasa alone, he's cool.
The facts have a strong anti-A- bias.
We'd get owned.
PL chose their targets carefully. And they make sure people hear about their victories (or more appropriately, the victories of others they have tagged along with).
The entities burning down Pure Blind are largely off the CAOD radar, and aren't quite as ego-driven or self-promoting. This is despite the fact they are blowing up far more ships.
Quesa is the mother fucking man.
Krutton, if you're getting a Titan, it's only fair you give me your nyx.
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