The War for the Franklin Terrace Towers (Venal and the North)

[Petyr]

Everybody need some things, sometime.

[Mfume]

nah, we honestly just needed more Huginns and maelstroms. I don't know of a single subcap doctrine that can go one to one with Tengus.

There are a lot of subcap doctrines that can go toe to toe with Tengus. CFC just doesn't fly them lol.

[Ivo THE1]

There are a lot of subcap doctrines that can go toe to toe with Tengus. CFC just doesn't fly them lol.

One day.. one day we may learn but its still fun anyways.

[Lorren Canada]

Aside from another T3 doctrine, what other subcap fleet can carry enough reps to survive and still have enough damage to kill Tengus while fighting on equal numbers? I'm genuinely curious here as a relative noob.

Also tell NCdot to learn how to fit huginns

[John Caffeine]

Aside from another T3 doctrine, what other subcap fleet can carry enough reps to survive and still have enough damage to kill Tengus while fighting on equal numbers? I'm genuinely curious here as a relative noob.

Megapulse Navy Apoc fleet would probably rip them appart, though wouldn't have much ability to tackle them beyond Proteus points and dictor bubbles.

[Mr Coloredshirt]

slowcats raperape tengus p good

[Lorren Canada]

Megapulse Navy Apoc fleet would probably rip them appart, though wouldn't have much ability to tackle them beyond Proteus points and dictor bubbles.

Ok, maybe I should quality this with practical fleet doctrines that the average 0.0 alliance flies today.

Navy Apocs sound sexy has all hell though

slowcats raperape tengus p good

Those aren't subcaps

[Mr Coloredshirt]

Ok, maybe I should quality this with practical fleet doctrines that the average 0.0 alliance flies today.

Navy Apocs sound sexy has all hell though



Those aren't subcaps

They're not supercaps

[Mfume]

Aside from another T3 doctrine, what other subcap fleet can carry enough reps to survive and still have enough damage to kill Tengus while fighting on equal numbers? I'm genuinely curious here as a relative noob.

uh, i actually dont want to say :V

hope you understand

[Dental Floss]

Aside from another T3 doctrine, what other subcap fleet can carry enough reps to survive and still have enough damage to kill Tengus while fighting on equal numbers? I'm genuinely curious here as a relative noob.

Muninns.

[Mfume]

http://black-legion.ca/killboard/?a=...l&kll_id=22746

XL GUNS NEED NERF!!!!!!!

lmbo

[Lorren Canada]

Muninns.

I seriously considered adding another line in there to the effect of 'if you say Muninns get fucked'

[Ron Mexxico]

Gossamer DT > what's the matter elo, no balls to jump in?
Gossamer DT > says the guy how travels with a dread and lives in NPC 0.0 space
Gossamer DT > this is no ones home system, only stupid people believe that can hold a home system in NPC space



not in fleet, but i saw this dude raging in local as his bros get camped into our long, black pipe

[progodlegend]

Ok, maybe I should quality this with practical fleet doctrines that the average 0.0 alliance flies today.

Navy Apocs sound sexy has all hell though



Those aren't subcaps

literally you already fly one, alpha fleet can fight them just fine in even numbers.

Or if you want to use the apoc approach, regular apoc's with a triage carrier (or guardians if you most), could work just fine too. Tengu's by themselves without having another meatshield, are just like drakes, delayed damage. If you can't figure out what to do with delayed damage, then it doesn't matter what fleet comp the enemy uses.

[Dental Floss]

Gossamer DT > ahh come back mister rev, with out you here no other FC will give two fucks about this epic battle

[Gossamer DT]

oh wow, this helped me realize I have rage issues, I mean did you see that rage, I guess not since most of the chat is missing, but I assure everyone I will seek out help and correct my local rage issue.

[Lorren Canada]

literally you already fly one, alpha fleet can fight them just fine in even numbers.

Or if you want to use the apoc approach, regular apoc's with a triage carrier (or guardians if you most), could work just fine too. Tengu's by themselves without having another meatshield, are just like drakes, delayed damage. If you can't figure out what to do with delayed damage, then it doesn't matter what fleet comp the enemy uses.

Alphafleet does ok, but it all comes down to huginns and if they die you're dead in the water. We were starting to really get targets down today when our last huginn died and we couldn't do jack shit. In all the times I've fought tengus with alphafleet with even numbers it has ended well once.

How are apocs any better than abaddons? And delayed damage is nearly a non factor when they have enough dps to outright alpha scimitars and huginns like our logi reported.

[Dego]

Counter hm tengus with 100mn ham tengus problem solved~

[jeffraider]

hey guys i took a big shit and posted it to kugu please let's talk more about various fleet comps l0l

[Dego]

hey guys i took a big shit and posted it to kugu please let's talk more about various fleet comps l0l

Are you saying my idea is bad?

btw we were wondering today why doesn't pl have any revenants please bring light upon this situation. Is it not the highest form of pvp to kill an enemy with a giant flying turd?

[jeffraider]

Are you saying my idea is bad?

btw we were wondering today why doesn't pl have any revenants please bring light upon this situation. Is it not the highest form of pvp to kill an enemy with a giant flying turd?

hey buddy i was like on verge of calling you a stupid piece of shit but

i decide to roll back a few pages and find your idea

Tengus op ((

okay that's your idea really?

you are a worthless fucking idiot, you should definitely snuggle into any CFC alliance or SOUTHBLOCK alliance

you would be fine there

[jeffraider]

ps fuck off

[July]

Alphafleet does ok, but it all comes down to huginns and if they die you're dead in the water. We were starting to really get targets down today when our last huginn died and we couldn't do jack shit. In all the times I've fought tengus with alphafleet with even numbers it has ended well once.

How are apocs any better than abaddons? And delayed damage is nearly a non factor when they have enough dps to outright alpha scimitars and huginns like our logi reported.

Bro, I love you and I miss you.

That being said, just because Alpha fleet (Arty battleships) struggle against unwebbed tengus hardly makes them the unstoppable doctrine you're making it out to be. Also, just because a fleet comp is countered doesn't mean the way to defeat the counter is just to pile more dudes into fleet.

P.S. - Jesus, someone pry jeffraider's jaws from Dego's throat before he kills him.

[Quesa]

Tengu's really start rippin Maels apart when they get close under their tracking with their low sig. The biggest problem with Maelstroms is they are being used as a catch-all because the Arties can alpha shit if there are enough. Once the support is downed, it's free reign as the Tengu's approach.

You can counter them with SR, higher tracking guns and warp out once they get too far off but running a SR fleet takes alot more FC awareness than LR.

[July]

And from my highly reliable and unbiased sources, the reason you guys bring 1200s now instead of 1400s is because Elo told you the secret:

You ain't killing any tengus with 1400s fitted.

[Dego]

P.S. - Jesus, someone pry jeffraider's jaws from Dego's throat before he kills him.

Dunno about jaws but I'm gonna need some lube to remove his dick from my ass

btw confirming that people still have 1400mm maels on contract

[TomasM]

also

[04:44:24] Gossamer DT > better point that rev he pussied his way out of hte bubbles

I was already sieged at that time



e: I only rewarped to get more stront

[jeffraider]

look fuck you zagdul you moron piece of shit

okay you got o7'd peace

[Perseus Kallistratos]

you are a worthless fucking idiot, you should definitely snuggle into any CFC alliance or SOUTHBLOCK alliance

So the only 2 that exist.

Thanks for stopping by with your advice and great bedside manner.

[TomasM]

I will just leave this here

[Addrake]

tldr; we ate well

We ate so well tonight. So a quick BR for anyone interested in what actually occurred this evening.

We formed up a bit early, knowing that a dekCo tech moon was coming out of reinforced. We scouted out the area and decided to form tengu's to counter the maelstrom fleet that dekCo was bringing along, We waited until the last possible second, undocked and got on the titan ready to bridge. As we entered system goons fled into their tower. Unhappy with this turn of events, Elo ordered anyone in k3 with a mach to hop into a "Coward Battering Ram." Hilarity ensued for a good 30 minutes as we randomly bumped Maelstroms and Scorpions out of the pos and slaughtered them on the edge of the shields. After a while though goons decided the best course of action was to log off inside the pos, so we left system and got set up for another bridge.

Our eyes on their carriers perked up, It seemed that they were going to bridge them in to start repping the tower. We squealed with glee, knowing that there was a good chance of a fight if they had triage carriers. Once our eyes got confirmation that they had triaged we popped our cyno and got back into system. The fight was on and reps were holding except for a few cases where people broadcasted a wee bit late. After swapping around targets we landed our sights on vily in his chimera. He had entered triage and we decided to try and bring him down, for a little while it looked like he might make it out of triage and live, but he finally exploded and we swapped to an archon. The archon started melting but a call was made to take out more of their damage so we switched to maelstroms and proceeded to cycle through targets. Just then a wild cyno appears, and more drakes pour into system. The call for :courage: is screamed and we pull our scimitars a bit farther off the pack of wild tengu's. We are clearing targets quickly now and the dekCo fleet warps off.

We follow to planet 1 and land 50 off them, they are already aligned though and we give chase but with no luck. We get word that they are landing on n5y and we warp to 0. Our hero dictor on the mqfx gate in n5y starts to bubble and maelstroms land in his system. We jump through and start picking off targets as they burn out and the few lucky dekCo members are able to dock up in the npc station. Elo pulls us back into mqfx and we proceed to play Maelstrom bowling again with the few individuals who decided to stay within the shields. Dekco's fleet decides not to try and make a run for d-8 at that specific time so we stand down and burn back into k3.

After docking up, roughly 12 BL. members decide to go ruffle the feathers of the remaining dekCo members still online in n5y. We get some good small gang fights on their undock and kill a few more maelstrom/scimitars before heading back to k3 again. This is the BR, although the small gang and the slaughter at the mqfx gate are cobbled together.

Our spies pipe up that the remnants of dekCo's fleet is forming up to bust out of the pipe. We have roughly 30 dudes online now so we decide to go for it and meet them at the k3/csoa gate since they literally have to jump into us in order to get home. We form up a small tengu fleet and tomas hops in his revelation to show mfume how tracking dreads are properly done.

After some cowarding dekCo jump roughly 75 drakes/scimitars/randoms into us and we begin to brawl. Reps are holding and we are blapping their scimitars as fast as we can lock them. One of them doesn't even move off the spot he loaded grid and tomas blaps him in one volley with the mighty RevEnator. DekCo deaggresses and jumps back through into csoa and run back up the pipe to n5y. We start watching the market and notice that they're buying up kinetic hardeners and target painters. Zagdul is sounding pretty smug now as though he has an amazing plan to defeat us, so we simply switch to EM missiles and wait for another round.

DekCo jump back into us and we start ripping them apart with EM missiles. Reps almost don't hold on one of our scimitars but we pull him back from 80% armor and proceed to dunk with spacejam style. Tomas sounds absolutely giddy on comms as he blaps drake after drake, and we wipe the field clean of the remaining dekCo forces.

[Opti]

I will just leave this here

Dear Sir,

Thanks for providing proof to all those idiots who think you can only kill drakes/abing rifters when they are not moving.

Regards, Opti

[BigChols]

tldr; we ate well

We ate so well tonight. So a quick BR for anyone interested in what actually occurred this evening.

We formed up a bit early, knowing that a dekCo tech moon was coming out of reinforced. We scouted out the area and decided to form tengu's to counter the maelstrom fleet that dekCo was bringing along, We waited until the last possible second, undocked and got on the titan ready to bridge. As we entered system goons fled into their tower. Unhappy with this turn of events, Elo ordered anyone in k3 with a mach to hop into a "Coward Battering Ram." Hilarity ensued for a good 30 minutes as we randomly bumped Maelstroms and Scorpions out of the pos and slaughtered them on the edge of the shields. After a while though goons decided the best course of action was to log off inside the pos, so we left system and got set up for another bridge.

Our eyes on their carriers perked up, It seemed that they were going to bridge them in to start repping the tower. We squealed with glee, knowing that there was a good chance of a fight if they had triage carriers. Once our eyes got confirmation that they had triaged we popped our cyno and got back into system. The fight was on and reps were holding except for a few cases where people broadcasted a wee bit late. After swapping around targets we landed our sights on vily in his chimera. He had entered triage and we decided to try and bring him down, for a little while it looked like he might make it out of triage and live, but he finally exploded and we swapped to an archon. The archon started melting but a call was made to take out more of their damage so we switched to maelstroms and proceeded to cycle through targets. Just then a wild cyno appears, and more drakes pour into system. The call for :courage: is screamed and we pull our scimitars a bit farther off the pack of wild tengu's. We are clearing targets quickly now and the dekCo fleet warps off.

We follow to planet 1 and land 50 off them, they are already aligned though and we give chase but with no luck. We get word that they are landing on n5y and we warp to 0. Our hero dictor on the mqfx gate in n5y starts to bubble and maelstroms land in his system. We jump through and start picking off targets as they burn out and the few lucky dekCo members are able to dock up in the npc station. Elo pulls us back into mqfx and we proceed to play Maelstrom bowling again with the few individuals who decided to stay within the shields. Dekco's fleet decides not to try and make a run for d-8 at that specific time so we stand down and burn back into k3.

After docking up, roughly 12 BL. members decide to go ruffle the feathers of the remaining dekCo members still online in n5y. We get some good small gang fights on their undock and kill a few more maelstrom/scimitars before heading back to k3 again. This is the BR, although the small gang and the slaughter at the mqfx gate are cobbled together.

Our spies pipe up that the remnants of dekCo's fleet is forming up to bust out of the pipe. We have roughly 30 dudes online now so we decide to go for it and meet them at the k3/csoa gate since they literally have to jump into us in order to get home. We form up a small tengu fleet and tomas hops in his revelation to show mfume how tracking dreads are properly done.

After some cowarding dekCo jump roughly 75 drakes/scimitars/randoms into us and we begin to brawl. Reps are holding and we are blapping their scimitars as fast as we can lock them. One of them doesn't even move off the spot he loaded grid and tomas blaps him in one volley with the mighty RevEnator. DekCo deaggresses and jumps back through into csoa and run back up the pipe to n5y. We start watching the market and notice that they're buying up kinetic hardeners and target painters. Zagdul is sounding pretty smug now as though he has an amazing plan to defeat us, so we simply switch to EM missiles and wait for another round.

DekCo jump back into us and we start ripping them apart with EM missiles. Reps almost don't hold on one of our scimitars but we pull him back from 80% armor and proceed to dunk with spacejam style. Tomas sounds absolutely giddy on comms as he blaps drake after drake, and we wipe the field clean of the remaining dekCo forces.

video from main fight goes live in 40 minutes (current time 2:51 AM 4/23/12 Central)

[Addrake]

Dear Sir,

Thanks for providing proof to all those idiots who think you can only kill drakes/abing rifters when they are not moving.

Regards, Opti

If something is moving very quickly, but directly towards you or directly away from you, then it has no angular velocity, and you are going to pop it like a balloon. Simply moving fast does not make you immune to guns in the same way it does w/ missiles (flight time/explosion radius etc.)

[July]

Dear Sir,

Thanks for providing proof to all those idiots who think you can only kill drakes/abing rifters when they are not moving.

Regards, Opti

There may or may not have been a pair of huginns in that fight webbing shit.

It was me. I was the huginn.

I also remember an enemy scimi hitting approach on the gate and then not moving at all. Bad things happened.

[Opti]

There may or may not have been a pair of huginns in that fight webbing shit.

It was me. I was the huginn.

I also remember an enemy scimi hitting approach on the gate and then not moving at all. Bad things happened.

Just puts a fine point on how completely broken it is that a ship with a specific negative bonus supposed to prevent it from applying its huge dps to smaller things still can with ease

Save us ccp, save us

-Opti

[Endie]

That bit about "watching the market" is a very inventive way to try and protect a spy on hostile comms. Bravo! I may well use it myself, some time.

[Matos]

How are apocs any better than abaddons?

More range. (Thats pretty much all they have as an advantage though).

[Malcanis]

More range. (Thats pretty much all they have as an advantage though).

Way better cap use is I guess is good for sustained fights.

*shrug*

[Dental Floss]

That bit about "watching the market" is a very inventive way to try and protect a spy on hostile comms. Bravo! I may well use it myself, some time.

Black Legion doesn't have a spy in the CFC. We're just resourceful.

[Lorren Canada]

And from my highly reliable and unbiased sources, the reason you guys bring 1200s now instead of 1400s is because Elo told you the secret:

You ain't killing any tengus with 1400s fitted.

hrmmph, In my experience with good webbing we killed Tengus easier with 1400s while in small fleets like last night.

[Dental Floss]

hrmmph, In my experience with good webbing we killed Tengus easier with 1400s while in small fleets like last night.

Having webs doesn't make your fleet a viable counter to another fleet. Given enough maelstroms, huginns, drakes with target painters, and triage reps, you can kill any subcap fleet no matter what it is, not specifically tengus. The question is what ship type straight up counters another. For drakes, it's abaddons because of the drake's low EM resist, high sig, and the abaddon's massive tank. For AHACs, it's drakes because plated zealots don't do well against the explosion velocity of heavy missiles. The maelstrom is not a direct counter to the tengu no matter how you look at it.

[Endie]

Black Legion doesn't have a spy in the CFC. We're just resourceful.

While digi has burned three BL spies in the CFC (one of which, perversely, it seems that its owner didn't remember was still there), I suspect that only a very foolish person would believe that we'd got the lot.

[Muhadin]

While digi has burned three BL spies in the CFC (one of which, perversely, it seems that its owner didn't remember was still there), I suspect that only a very foolish person would believe that we'd got the lot.

We are pretty good at getting innocent people kicked from goons because you guys think they are spys.

[Venetian Tar]

We are pretty good at getting innocent people kicked from goons because you guys think they are spys.

~controlling your game~

[Lorren Canada]

The maelstrom is not a direct counter to the tengu no matter how you look at it.

Agreed. I'm just pointing out that I don't know of a proven hard counter to tengus with equal numbers. Maelstroms can beat the shit out of them but usually this requires more dudes than we had and by that point they can beat the shit out of nearly anything so the point becomes redundant.

And not that I'm whining about tengus, I think they're great and fun ships that give a smaller group like BL the ability to seriously threaten much larger fleets if they so choose.

Edit: also did you guys primary me last night? Cause I've never been primaried in a maelstrom but I was so fucking ready when I got yellow-boxed. I broadcasted early and overheated everything, I was so fucking excited and nothing happened

[Opti]

Hello Sirs,

Recently I have had the misfortune of becoming ill (nothing serious) that has impacted my capacity to make isk in eve online, therefore if anyone would be so inclined to pay me isk to spy on The GoonSwarm Federation I would be party so such an idea, please converse with me on said acceptable figures.

To show that Im totally worth the money, I give you a teaser like in the CIA.

I have circled the pertinent parts in red.

http://imgur.com/Iz0M6

[Endie]

We are pretty good at getting innocent people kicked from goons because you guys think they are spys.

...says Black Legions's very own George Smiley, forum poster and player of the Great Game "Muhadin".

[Atticus]

Edit: also did you guys primary me last night? Cause I've never been primaried in a maelstrom but I was so fucking ready when I got yellow-boxed. I broadcasted early and overheated everything, I was so fucking excited and nothing happened

I ungroup my guns and shoot one missile at every thing on field to get on all the kms and make mfume spacemad.

[Quesa]

I ungroup my guns and shoot one missile at every thing on field to get on all the kms and make mfume spacemad.

FoF and smartbombs yo.