Night of the moderately long bans: A pre-fanfest bot purge

**Horus** · 2012-02-29

Originally Posted by Aurora148

http://translate.google.com/translat...o.html&act=url

I hope the police buy you a new door Horus

i live in bologna :O a city 400km from that one :O

http://maps.google.it/maps?hl=it&gs_...ed=0CCYQ8gEwAA

come to visit me when you come in italy :O

Originally Posted by riverini

from my dropbox

c/d?

when you feed a stupid italian troll called L--e --you get things like that, sorry but i am too busy suiciding myself right now

**The Lang** · 2012-02-29

Originally Posted by Aurora148

http://translate.google.com/translat...o.html&act=url

Yesterday evening, the student of 25 years, residing at Via Goito, he was playing 'Eve' when the moderator has expelled him and he was furious, threatening extreme measures

Livorno - "If I kill myself thrown out of the game." This sentence, written by a student from Livorno to 25 years, residing at Via Goito, has triggered the alarm last night, leading the police to knock at the door of the young. "I was joking. I just wanted to express disappointment and give more weight to my dissatisfaction with my performance."
The game, science fiction, at issue is' Eve '. It 'much later on the internet, so much that can touch 60 thousand points of connected users simultaneously and provides the possibility of being ejected from the game if you do not follow certain rules.
Last night, in front of the PC, there was the 25 year-old from Livorno who suddenly was expelled by the moderator, an Icelander, who read the sentence the boy gave the alarm, telling the computer's IP address to the Icelandic Police . From here we climbed back to the phone number used to connect to the internet and then the house, where it was feared could have been a suicide. All this took place within a few minutes.
But when the police of the company of Livorno, yesterday evening at about 22.40, presented themselves at the door of studentte have realized that the person was not really that intention, but simply his was a relief. However, the name has been reported to Interpol, and now the position of the young man, who faces a complaint, is under examination by the police in Iceland.

I hope the police buy you a new door Horus

From my sources that's Obi Skywalker, not Horus, since Obi is from Livorno. The info I got says several of the higher positioned Th3 UnT0uChaBl3S members got permabanned, mains/alts/bots, with several titans/supercarriers tied to those accounts. Also many lower ranked corp members got temp bans on some of their accounts. So I guess NC. is down a few supercaps, to go with the ones they lost to -A- today.

So I guess Th3 UnT0uChaBl3S weren't that untouchable...

**July** · 2012-02-29

Originally Posted by tgr

You have space empires 5 (turnbased, has performance issues on win7 at least), sword of the stars (turnbased), distant worlds (monstrous performance issues), star ruler, ai war: fleet command (more like a sort of space chess) etcetcetc, all of which haven't got the low limit of soase.

Personally, I'm looking for a space strategy game where the location of resources etc actually matter, and where blowing up the right station matters beyond just "well, you just lost a station", but more in the realm of "you lost a station with a ton of important stuff in it". I've yet to see a game actually do this, so I've bothered a friend of mine enough that he's convinced me and him should make our own. It's going to be interesting to see how that pans out.

I can confirm Sins of a Solar Empire is a great game and in line with many of your demands. You just have to find people to play with as AI games can get dull. There are several different "types" of AI you can play against (Turtle, expansive, aggressive, etc) but none of them are really as unpredictable or crafty as a human player.

If you want a similar RTS that's a lot more about strategic combat you can try Homeworld and Homeworld 2. It's a lot like Sins in that it's a space RTS. The key difference being it isn't on a flat plane (like Sins, Starcraft, and most other RTS). You have to navigate your fleets through a completely 3-D plane and the positioning, warpins on other fleets, etc. have a dramatic effect on the outcome on the fight. You also have the ability to target ship subsystems like engines. Guerrilla sniping tactical targets also can cripple enemies progress since the game takes place 100% in space, unlike Sins where you have to conquer planets and such for resources. I never got good at navigating the 3-D plane and positioning my fleets, but I've seen videos of some pretty amazing shit. The graphics are a bit dated, but there are literally thousands of mods that can resolve that.

[spoiler=Vid of Homeworld 2 Fleet Combat]
[/spoiler]

**Raketefrau** · 2012-02-29

Originally Posted by Dastommy

I think the 15 day ban is more of a warning for you to stop before they shut down the account. So your bot who's skilling for a titan stops using the macro, he will be saved from the next kristallnacht.

I think it's more of a "we want to look cool for the fest without losing paying accounts that will come back online as soon as it's over" kind of thing.

**Horus** · 2012-02-29

Originally Posted by July

I can confirm Sins of a Solar Empire is a great game and in line with many of your demands. You just have to find people to play with as AI games can get dull. There are several different "types" of AI you can play against (Turtle, expansive, aggressive, etc) but none of them are really as unpredictable or crafty as a human player.

If you want a similar RTS that's a lot more about strategic combat you can try Homeworld and Homeworld 2. It's a lot like Sins in that it's a space RTS. The key difference being it isn't on a flat plane (like Sins, Starcraft, and most other RTS). You have to navigate your fleets through a completely 3-D plane and the positioning, warpins on other fleets, etc. have a dramatic effect on the outcome on the fight. You also have the ability to target ship subsystems like engines. Guerrilla sniping tactical targets also can cripple enemies progress since the game takes place 100% in space, unlike Sins where you have to conquer planets and such for resources. I never got good at navigating the 3-D plane and positioning my fleets, but I've seen videos of some pretty amazing shit. The graphics are a bit dated, but there are literally thousands of mods that can resolve that.

[spoiler=Vid of Homeworld 2 Fleet Combat]
[/spoiler]

at my old time i enjoyed a lot master of orion 2-pax imperia -haegemonia.

**Aurora148** · 2012-02-29

Originally Posted by The Lang

From my sources that's Obi Skywalker, not Horus, since Obi is from Livorno. The info I got says several of the higher positioned Th3 UnT0uChaBl3S members got permabanned, mains/alts/bots, with several titans/supercarriers tied to those accounts. Also many lower ranked corp members got temp bans on some of their accounts. So I guess NC. is down a few supercaps, to go with the ones they lost to -A- today.

So I guess Th3 UnT0uChaBl3S weren't that untouchable...

close enough

**Dastommy** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by Raketefrau

I think it's more of a "we want to look cool for the fest without losing paying accounts that will come back online as soon as it's over" kind of thing.

I can see that.

Also RAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

hi

**Hilmar Keller** · 2012-03-01

Confirming Homeworld/Homeworld 2 are loads of fun and probably closer to EVE in an RTS than Sins.

**Kevin** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by July

If you want a similar RTS that's a lot more about strategic combat you can try Homeworld and Homeworld 2. It's a lot like Sins in that it's a space RTS. The key difference being it isn't on a flat plane (like Sins, Starcraft, and most other RTS). You have to navigate your fleets through a completely 3-D plane and the positioning, warpins on other fleets, etc. have a dramatic effect on the outcome on the fight. You also have the ability to target ship subsystems like engines. Guerrilla sniping tactical targets also can cripple enemies progress since the game takes place 100% in space, unlike Sins where you have to conquer planets and such for resources. I never got good at navigating the 3-D plane and positioning my fleets, but I've seen videos of some pretty amazing shit. The graphics are a bit dated, but there are literally thousands of mods that can resolve that.
[/spoiler]

Or you can just spam those tug ship things and winwinwinwin

**Yue** · 2012-03-01

Homeworld

**Matos** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by tgr

I'd like to see statistics on number of bots, and the level of isk, along with various mineral levels etc, both in raw form, in refinable form, and in supercaps form, with graphs showing the development over time, both in total and average pr char. This would've demonstrated just how much of an effect botting has had on EVE, and for some reason I can't help but think that it has spiked hard the last few years.

I will get to that once I finished the miracle generator. The first test run on CCP went well

**Endie** · 2012-03-01

My wife decided to clear out some old DVDs and XBox games and stuff so she entered the barcodes into some website and got cash for them.

She checked I was OK with the games she was sending off. When she held up the Masters of Orion 3 box it was wrong of me to punch her that hard since she wasn't really responsible for the game but it just came over me like a red mist.

**Magere** · 2012-03-01

I hope you buried it in a leadlined casket along with whatever remains of her.

**syndic thrass** · 2012-03-01

ITT Endie beats his wife.

**Fix Lag** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by syndic thrass

ITT Endie beats his wife.

Equal rights, equal lefts.

**tgr** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by syndic thrass

ITT Endie beats his wife.

You don't fuck with a man's strategy game.

**rob3r** · 2012-03-01

http://community.eveonline.com/devbl...blog&nbid=9133

tl;dr accounts that were temp banned/flagged for botting can no longer transfer characters.

**Iratus** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by rob3r

http://community.eveonline.com/devbl...blog&nbid=9133

tl;dr accounts that were temp banned/flagged for botting can no longer transfer characters.

That is nice and long overdue.

Also, a summon for... heh... "japanophiles".

**R0ot** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by Horus

2 week ban, is just a move for make 100k $ , ccp is not fighting the bots, is just cheastbeating you will hear nothing again for another 6 months, also 90% of the ppl got banned for 2 weeks, what you think ppl gonna do? sell chars, change accounts. continue.

Sup

?BUT WAIT, THERE IS EVEN MORE! From now on, and this current wave is included, characters who receive a warning such as this will have the characters locked to the account. This means that once you've received a warning for botting your character transfer privileges have been revoked in perpetuity. This is to prevent people trying to circumvent the rules by recycling accounts. Yes we know people pointed out this could happen last time around and if you'll remember we said "We'll keep an eye on it and if it becomes a problem we'll deal with it". Here is us dealing with it. We'll probably have to come up with some form of timing solution for the future, but as it stands today it's forever. If you care about your dudes don't do bad things.

http://community.eveonline.com/devbl...blog&nbid=9133

Michael Wray · 2012-03-01

From now on, and this current wave is included, characters who receive a warning such as this will have the characters locked to the account.

Easily the most important part.

**Dethmourne Silvermane** · 2012-03-01

From now on, and this current wave is included, characters who receive a warning such as this will have the characters locked to the account.'

WINNING

**Rer** · 2012-03-01

So about that whole "CCP not taking bots seriously" thing.

**Jm24** · 2012-03-01

Holy shit. So many titans locked.

The new epidemic will be selling accounts for $ now

**Jm24** · 2012-03-01

Plexes about to spike as people move all at risk chars or bots away from Their mains

**woo glin** · 2012-03-01

You see CCP sreegs is like the ATF and tengu alts are machine guns. As such

**Tristan Acoma** · 2012-03-01

If we're going to make analogies referencing current events in the United States, we should go with "CCP sreegs is like ICE and the tengu alts are mexican immigrants".

**Matos** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by Tristan Acoma

If we're going to make analogies referencing current events in the United States, we should go with "CCP sreegs is like ICE and the tengu alts are mexican immigrants".

Both useless in what they are doing? (No idea what ICE stands for)

**riverini [banned]** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by Jm24

Plexes about to spike as people move all at risk chars or bots away from Their mains

It would be the opposite, since the demand would plummet.

Originally Posted by rob3r

http://community.eveonline.com/devbl...blog&nbid=9133

tl;dr accounts that were temp banned/flagged for botting can no longer transfer characters.

Definitely a long needed move. Most botters simply sold the tainted char to RMTers or legal players...

**Jones Bones** · 2012-03-01

It was as if 10,000 Tengus cried out in horror, and were suddenly silenced.

**Fix Lag** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by Matos

Both useless in what they are doing? (No idea what ICE stands for)

Immigration and Customs Enforcement

**hellkyte** · 2012-03-01

All this talk of abortions is getting me super wet.

**MpozoY** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by riverini

It would be the opposite, since the demand would plummet.

Nope, long term effect is debatable but short term a spike is assured

**pinoyzzz** · 2012-03-01

Meh, even with the character transfer limitation.
A couple of issues:

* Not all botters were actually caught. From some comments it seems like less than 50% of hbot users were caught, and that's just one better known bot (not some homemade bot some russian is using with his friends, for example). It seems CCP just did the least they could do to save face - they just got the very obvious 23/7 miners/ratters.
* A 2 week ban is basically nothing
* No change in game mechanics so botting is still possible and worthwhile.

Botters will always find a way to circumvent a ban wave, or retool after one. Some bots are just undetectable if used prudently.

The real issue is game mechanics that makes botting possible. It's not the grind per se, but the fact that grinding activities in Eve-Online don't require much skill or human brain power. You can have smart, fun, PvE or grinding that is impossible to bot efficiently - like some new MMOs do. Incursions are a step in the right direction, but like some wormholes, even that's bottable.

Until CCP fixes/redos Eve, only the dumb and clueless will actually NPC/mine in anomalies, wormholes, missions or asteroid belts for Eve gold.

**Hilmar Keller** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by pinoyzzz

Until CCP fixes/redos Eve, only the dumb and clueless will actually NPC/mine in anomalies, wormholes, missions or asteroid belts for Eve gold.

Here's the thing. In order for PVP to have any degree of meaning, it must come with risk. Yes, your PVP ships cost ISK. But what does ISK cost? Time, frustration, boredom, etc. PVP's a lot more enjoyable when you know the other dude spent a couple hours (or more) grinding up the boat he just lost, and a lot more dynamic when you have to gauge your desire to ruin the other dude's day with your desire to not rat.

Botters completely fuck up this dynamic. And PVE doesn't have to be 'smart' or 'fun' - in fact, it's better if it's a pain in the ass, from a purely PVP standpoint.

So I think CCP's going in the right direction, and as long as Incursions give me the means to PVP in a couple hours, they can remain boring and repetitive because that's the point.

**pinoyzzz** · 2012-03-01

PvE doesn't have to be boring, repetitive or grindy for PvP to have meaning. Any game company that purposely makes PvE content to be those things is literally retarded. PvP is more about ego than malice, and so is PvE to a certain extent (look at my shiny ship/gear!). Even I don't think CCP is literally retarded - they're just clueless and lazy.

**Lucas Quaan** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by Jm24

Plexes about to spike as people move all at risk chars or bots away from Their mains

Yes, because there is no way for CCP to track this, right?

Not saying people wont try, but if there is any link at all between the accounts they will probably get banned still. They even banned "innocent" accounts in this wave that were traced back to the same IP/player as the botting ones.

**Hilmar Keller** · 2012-03-01

You know as well as I do that people who play EVE for PVE != people who play EVE for PVP. They're just entirely different mentalities. People who actually complain that the grind is grindy have been doing it way too long because they're trying to buy more faction/officer mods for their ratting Nightmares. The vast majority of people wake up with nothing but a shuttle in their hangar, say 'oh okay I'm going to grind now' and just sit through it long enough for a BC or faction cruiser/HAC. Then there's people in alliances with SRPs don't even have to do this, so they don't grind at all.

I'm not frustrated by my PVE because 1) I still consider 100m enough to have fun with and 2) instead of complaining about it I experimented until I could make that 100m while eating dinner.

**Mizuchi** · 2012-03-01

I make 100mil while eating dinner too, set up corp in hisec, set tax 10%, recruit mission runners, leech corp wallet. success.

**MpozoY** · 2012-03-01

Originally Posted by pinoyzzz

PvE doesn't have to be boring, repetitive or grindy for PvP to have meaning. Any game company that purposely makes PvE content to be those things is literally retarded. PvP is more about ego than malice, and so is PvE to a certain extent (look at my shiny ship/gear!). Even I don't think CCP is literally retarded - they're just clueless and lazy.

There is a difference between "PvP must require a terrible grind" and "PvP must have an appropriate cost" and tuning it so getting the latter without demanding the former is what makes or breaks persistent universe games.

I really think the amount of botting isk/mins that goes straight to PvP is tiny in proportion to the amount that gets pushed through RMT. All botting effects suck for the honest player, but in the grand scheme of things it's the unsanctioned RMT that hits CCP and I'm not convinced that the accounts that got hit weren't just the ones doing sloppy RMT.

CCP is also assuming (or pretending to assume) that the characters represent a significant time/effort cost for botters. 3 easily laundered Plex buys a clean account for six months. It takes, what, a week to bot up the isk to buy a fresh T3 pilot? Less? If you're paying your heat bill selling Eve gold, how much hassle does it really take to get you to stop?

**Teh Ashen** · 2012-03-02

Originally Posted by Jm24

Plexes about to spike as people move all at risk chars or bots away from Their mains

The smart ones will sell their "at risk" characters to unsuspecting pubbies. Make a few bil and start training new tengu pilots. The dumb ones will sell their characters and go buy new ones, which are also ex-bot characters.

Hans Gruber · 2012-03-02

Originally Posted by Teh Ashen

The smart ones will sell their "at risk" characters to unsuspecting pubbies. Make a few bil and start training new tengu pilots. The dumb ones will sell their characters and go buy new ones, which are also ex-bot characters.

The smart ones said this getting annoying and found a new game to Bot in

**riverini [banned]** · 2012-03-02

Originally Posted by MpozoY

Nope, long term effect is debatable but short term a spike is assured

How would a spike be assured?

less bots = less ingame PLEX buyers, the demand decreases.
some player might buy out of game GTCs = more plex supply

the bigger the supply over the demand, the lower the price.

I wonder how many of those banned brought fanfest stuff?

R

**raptor217** · 2012-03-02

As much as I hate to say it, riverini is correct. (I'm going to

myself now) As demand decreases (shifts inward for those who have taken economics) price and quantity sold will decrease as well.

**Rer** · 2012-03-02

I'm gonna play space economist for a moment. If all those bots are gone, couldn't we logically therefore think they are to be replaced? (I say this not from an economic perspective, but merely from glancing at the thought process behind most of these bot owners. They don't seem to really care other then "well I've been momentarily displaced now haven't I") Whether it is by new accounts or sold characters doesn't really matter, either way, said accounts would need PLEX correct?

If you think of it as "x amount of people gone", then yes Riverini is indeed correct, but I'm of the thought process that those people are not gone.

Their assets are, and the characters themselves are either temp banned or gone, but said people running the bots will likely resume the process, just with a new batch.

Thoughts?

**raptor217** · 2012-03-02

Yeah if they had enough liquid capital left/not banned they could presumably buy new accounts/characters and plex those. This is all a mute point really because incursions are the driving force behind eve inflation, and 23.5/7 bots should be easy enough to catch.

**MpozoY** · 2012-03-02

You're thinking way too long term (and assuming CCP keeps at this enough to noticeably decrease botting, which is a huge assumption.) In the short term your botters have a lot of liquid isk that needs to be laundered, a burning need for clean accounts, demand for unstained pilots from the Bazaar, and oh hey there's a Power of Two promotion starting that helps with all of these. Like I said before guys paying their bills with RMT aren't just going to go "welp" and move on until profits take much bigger hits.

**Vile rat** · 2012-03-02

Originally Posted by MpozoY

You're thinking way too long term (and assuming CCP keeps at this enough to noticeably decrease botting, which is a huge assumption.) In the short term your botters have a lot of liquid isk that needs to be laundered, a burning need for clean accounts, demand for unstained pilots from the Bazaar, and oh hey there's a Power of Two promotion starting that helps with all of these. Like I said before guys paying their bills with RMT aren't just going to go "welp" and move on until profits take much bigger hits.

All they really need to do is chip away at the sense of invincibility that botters enjoy now.