It won't be for much longer, so 'enjoy' it while you canOriginally Posted by SgtBaker
It won't be for much longer, so 'enjoy' it while you can
yes i was also quite surprised they seemed to leave without a fight... unless something happened elsewhere
I've been advocating discophoons as an AHAC counter on goon forums ever since fist formation appeared, but everyone thought I was trolling
Mostly because I advocate discophoons as a solution for almost everything
Like I advocate "moar drakes" as a solution for almost everything.
I'm trying to plan a "crapsicle army" akin to thrasher army, my corp thinks I'm trolling though
MWD'ing discophoons are significantly faster than AB'ing zealots.... but... well... you do need to get them when they are very clustered (such as warp in) otherwise its useless... and with 40km range its easy to adapt
Looks like DAEDALUS X, aka the actual gay corp, just joined Damu'Khonde. Trolling may now commence.
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
I'm trying not to draw any parallels.
anyone know why genco left CVA?
Aralis get a bit much perhaps?
In a manner of speaking, yes. Genco directors have been pushing for changes for a while, including abandoning NRDS, possibly moving away from Providence, and a lift of the infiltration ban (albeit it was just one guy pushing that one). Aralis made a post which amounted to "no".anyone know why genco left CVA?
Aralis get a bit much perhaps?
Genco also lost a bunch of members when CVA lost Providence and the corp has been growing inactive; they needed a change to stay alive. A few of them are joining other CVA corps and the rest are off to the Amarr militia. They are leaving on friendly terms and intend to remain CVA's allies.
Why this is the reaction of anyone in CVA I'll never know. A lot of their non-CVA support historically comes from NRDS loyalists, rather than RP-gheys. It's not like being NRDS is what lost them providence, but rather uh... being blobbed out by supercaps.including abandoning NRDS
Well, on our way to Provi we basically looked for the biggest blob we could find, we burned with 120 IT in fleet (drake army is go). About 8-10 jumps to KBP we run into INT. who start burning with us. But unfortunately when we came to KBP it turned out into a mexican stand off. You guys were already set up on the gate with 220+ and our fleet only had 120 in it. INT was unfortunately blue to some of you guys there like -A- and somebody else forgot who it was. So basically we couldn't add INT's numbers(60) to our fleet otherwise we would of jumped in and duked it out. So we just decided to call it quits and blobed some unfortunate 20 man gangs that we ran into
Probably because when you're no longer running a space empire, NBSI is a lot more practical and fun.
PS - KBP and 9UY are now back into UK (well, Damu'Khonde) hands. We come for our people, etc.
Your a new alliance can't you at least come up with your own new catchphrases, You started well by announcing you are now NBSI instead of pretending to be NRDS don't go mucking it up with being UK mk II
I'm a fan of NRDS in general. A large part of why I don't like U'K acting like they're NRDS is because alot of the systems in Providence were held by NBSI entities, most problematically the empire entrance/exits. U'K (or now, D'K) always held one highsec entrance, Dital-KBP, but after that one system a neutral would immediately hit NBSI territory in XHQ (held by Sodalitas XX).
If they could negotiate a way to take over that system, neutrals would have an NRDS route straight up through 9UY (via YWS0, held by Star Fraction, who are NRDS, and 4B which was U'K space), and also the Agony Freeport in H6. Even if this one small corridor was made safe for neutrals, I don't see how this wouldn't be an economic boon for Providence. I would hope even if U'K were to abandon NRDS largely they'd consider at least keeping a system or two (or even a constellation) open to neutrals, maybe at the least making KBP a freeport.
thats exactly what we are
The in other words it's a chaos of standings, since neuts and blues were on each side. If you jumped we would have had a true thunderdome orgy.Well, on our way to Provi we basically looked for the biggest blob we could find, we burned with 120 IT in fleet (drake army is go). About 8-10 jumps to KBP we run into INT. who start burning with us. But unfortunately when we came to KBP it turned out into a mexican stand off. You guys were already set up on the gate with 220+ and our fleet only had 120 in it. INT was unfortunately blue to some of you guys there like -A- and somebody else forgot who it was. So basically we couldn't add INT's numbers(60) to our fleet otherwise we would of jumped in and duked it out. So we just decided to call it quits and blobed some unfortunate 20 man gangs that we ran into
Question is why would they do it and more precisely, what would they get from it?
Is the idea of benefiting noobs/neutral parties/industrialists etc. more valuable than the idea benefiting own alliance by simple combat rules and more targets?
Aside from the idea of benefiting noobs, there's alot of ISK to be made from my view. Refining taxes, docking fees, a whole new market to sell items to in those stations, which may even make it easier for people in Providence-based alliances to export their goods. Rather than building and moving the stuff to an empire trade hub, have the would-be empire buyers come to you.
If it's done right, there could be quite a large economic incentive to having a free-trade zone of sorts, but it has to be accessible and safe to make it even begin to work or for neutrals to feel welcome and partake in this. Which, again, takes effort, and you're right, alot (most, almost all) alliances would rather just not do it and keep the neutrals as extra targets.
I'd seriously be interested in market statistics and income for CVA-lead Providence. Hm. Might poke the eve-metrics guys for the market stuff.
If you check out the last economic report issued by CCP, almost all regions gained population. Except Providence, which nose-dived with the abandonment of NRDS.
That said, it would be stupid for whatever U'K's new shitty name is to try to run NRDS, because -A- and other entities would just roam around unchecked and no neutrals would show up anyways. Without a large overseer enforcing NRDS rules with reaction response teams (yay small gang PvP!), NRDS does not work to attract neutrals.
us running NRDS wasnt to attract neutrals, it was because we wanted to run NRDS as our ROE due to various historical reasons
if an alliance wants to run NRDS, thats fine, I don't see that people shouldnt run NRDS just because everyone else is NBSI (even though we're almost certainly going NBSI ourselves, but our new start and beingallows us to do that)
Ok, eve-metrics kindly provides historic market data (the "market history" in-game, i.e. accurate actual transactions that occured). It's difficult to compare Providence with some sensible other regions. I'm now using Immensea and Branch. Providence has 84 systems, most of which have outposts, while Branch with 94 systems has more systems but fewer outposts and Immensea has the same 84 systems but again fewer systems. I'm using 2009-06-01 to 2009-12-31 for the comparison period. This should be before the invasion of Providence (the fall of D-G happend end of January), so should give a rough idea of the actual market work in the old Providence under CVA. I picked a few different items, but was constrained by not all of the items I was trying having their market history uploaded to eve-metrics. Still, this might prove interesting.
The questions that are relevant to an alliance for deciding for an enforced NRDS policy ("enforced NRDS" is the NRDS of CVA that invites neutrals; Ushra'Khan's NRDS was not "enforced", and different from this) are:
1) Are there more products on the market? This will allow members to restock more easily.
2) Are the products on the market cheaper? Again, this helps the members of the alliance.
There is no intrinsic value in having lots of people around that you can not shoot. The question whether the alliance actually earns sensible amounts of ISK from docking fees, office cost and taxes can not be answered here - maybe one of the old Holders would like to give some insight into their old income distribution?
But well, on to the numbers:
Raven (638):
Providence: 78,181,129,348.51, avg 85,164,628.92 in 918 transactions
Immensea: 27,129,446,532.78, avg 91,653,535.58 in 296 transactions
Branch: 56,149,779,497.90, avg 92,503,755.35 in 607 transactions
Siege Missile Launcher II (2420):
Providence: 2,869,395,152.49, avg 1,936,164.07 in 1,482 transactions
Immensea: 1,086,462,895.43, avg 1,912,786.79 in 568 transactions
Branch: 1,187,388,861.39, avg 2,105,299.40 in 564 transactions
Tritanium (34):
Providence: 80,487,367,610.68, avg 3.25 in 24,755,534,742 transactions
Immensea: 31,870,327,438.07, avg 3.00 in 10,628,984,880 transactions
Branch: 67,786,697,122.09, avg 2.87 in 23,578,198,211 transactions
Megacyte (40):
Providence: 41,571,965,790.04, avg 3,407.09 in 12,201,598 transactions
Immensea: 9,440,819,218.03, avg 3,273.26 in 2,884,227 transactions
Branch: 20,304,987,077.19, avg 3,576.94 in 5,676,638 transactions
(I really would have liked to have different things, but those are some of the few items that actually have full coverage of the timespan given in all regions. :-/ I'm happy to provide numbers for other items if anyone's interested, but most will be skewed. Ask, and I'll let you know.)
To answer our original questions:
1) Are there more products on the market? This will allow members to restock more easily.
The amount of trade in end products (Raven, SML II) is significantly higher than in the other regions, so I would assume that yes, there are mor products available. The data dump shows more typeids for Providence, but that can very well be a skewed view as eve-metrics is more likely to be used by independent traders. As this can be in addition to any dedicated Alliance trader who provides specifically needed items that the open market does not provide, this seems to be a good thing.
2) Are the products on the market cheaper? Again, this helps the members of the alliance.
The Raven has a lower cost (8%) in Providence than in Immensea, while the siege missile launcher is comparable in price to Immensea, though 8% cheaper than in Branch. On the other hand, raw materials (trit, megacyte) are higher in price (up to 13%) or comparable to the closed economies, To answer the question: It's not clear that an enforced NRDS system will provide significantly lower prices for the member base.
I think this can be rather easily explained, too. Large alliances provide a sensible free market for themselves even without the influx of neutral parties. A handful of dedicated traders can already keep each other's prices low. It is easy to transport large amounts of goods - easier even in enclosed space, where a neutral is definitively a hostile, contrary to enforced NRDS. So there is no significant market force to keep prices lower in enforced NRDS systems than in closed markets.
The conclusion I'd draw from this is that "free markets" can add some bonuses to your alliance, so opening up specific border systems to free trade sounds like a good idea. But the numbers do not support a general, region-encompassing regulation of enforced NRDS based on the market argument.
With the removal of CVA from Providence NRDS died. There may be other NRDS entities out there but its nothing compared to what Providence was. The market was awsome. Systems packed with people doing there thing. It was fun.
I think local usualy averaged between 20 to 60 people in most systems.
I'm glad Aralis said no to changing the ROE.
Actually half of regions declined
Oh you're so full of shit. Maybe in /some/ systems sometimes.
But most is a bit of a stretch, even after a pint of Aralis happy-juice.
No its not, yes some systems had no one in it (usualy becous it had no station and only 3 belts but the systems that had stations were ocupied. Heck even the system with station Genco was using was crouded. (could be the 24/7 gang mining/anomaly hunting that did that.)
Numbers may vary but if you think its all bullshit your either trolling or just one of those bitter anti Provi people who got butthurt becous they kept being put KOS and were not aloud to circle jerk with the rest of us carebears.
The amount of hate Aralis gets is inspiring. Especially considering that he's a pretty chill guy who rarely posts on public forums.
But yeah. Popular systems like 9UY and KBP often had impressive local numbers. A lot of the rest of Providence was quiet, and many outposts were unused. Barely any money was being made from the outposts' docking fees or taxes.
That really depended on when you flew trough I think. Befor DT Providence was dead quiete then after it it would slowely fill and I think between 18:00-02:00 it was the busiest (GMT+1)
20-60 in local only applied to the very busy key systems, otherwise thats just bullshit
The most money was made by stations with refineries, maybe followed research stations. 30m isk a month offices were popular too, but that was only a few hundred million a month for those particular stations.
Docking fees was really not ( in my opinion and experience ) very profitable.
Any corp / alliance with any real presence in Old Providence would petition for blue standings so they could use Jump Bridges and get free docking.
You just hating becous some one bulldozerd your sandcastle and you have to rebuild.
Quite sad that the extent of Razor's initiative these days is to fag up Providence.
Bootcamp didn't take away the bitterness apparently
~~~~GIMMIE +REP+ GIMMIE~~~~
not really, we enjoyed the challenge, but it's now over - we have control of the old UK alliance back and will transfer all sov to D'K soon, so thats the end of thatYou just hating becous some one bulldozerd your sandcastle and you have to rebuild.
ADD Hydra best Hydra c/d
you were in drakes and you didn't go for it? the whole point of drakes is to suicide gloriouslyWell, on our way to Provi we basically looked for the biggest blob we could find, we burned with 120 IT in fleet (drake army is go). About 8-10 jumps to KBP we run into INT. who start burning with us. But unfortunately when we came to KBP it turned out into a mexican stand off. You guys were already set up on the gate with 220+ and our fleet only had 120 in it. INT was unfortunately blue to some of you guys there like -A- and somebody else forgot who it was. So basically we couldn't add INT's numbers(60) to our fleet otherwise we would of jumped in and duked it out. So we just decided to call it quits and blobed some unfortunate 20 man gangs that we ran into
RZR is on vacation from what I understand. Ever since the "not one inch" episode in Geminate while working with WI. they have been working with the rest of NC all the way up to the conclusion of Max II.
So generally i would tend to agree with you but they have not been doing anything just RZR till this road trip vacation and i am pretty sure they could care less about SOV grinding atm and just have some fun for bit shooting at whatever.
However It does seem strange for them not to jump in at the chance to play mean with Butter Dog or Bobby and Co while having other parts of the NC down south as well,it does seem like a lost opportunity that i am sure will never come back and bite them and the rest of the NC in the ass someday. Cause you know that never happens in EVE.
How did you get that?not really, we enjoyed the challenge, but it's now over - we have control of the old UK alliance back and will transfer all sov to D'K soon, so thats the end of that
e: the old alliance back.
Tarac Nor > no one wants providence other than newbies and you guys
Superstar > ahh we not gonna get all pissy and smaky are we..?
Tarac Nor > anyway.....do you wanna stick around in corp so i can hand it back karn?
Tarac Nor > also im not gonna get smacky
Tarac Nor >
Karn Mithralia > yes tarac
Tarac Nor > can you apply your alt to Unity Holdings
Tarac Nor > ill transfer control over
Karn Mithralia > yep
Karn Mithralia > done
Tarac Nor > ok
Tarac Nor > your now CEO of holding corp
Karn Mithralia > rgr
Thanks
e: bit of a let down this disbanding, expected more drama . ;(
glad to see CVA dont take the bait....Honor!
notsureifserious.jpg
[ 2010.08.02 10:54:31 ] Aralis > You barred us from your stations?
?[ 2010.08.02 10:56:02 ] Tarac Nor > no i didnt
?[ 2010.08.02 10:56:07 ] Tarac Nor > i gave the alliance back
[ 2010.08.02 10:56:33 ] Aralis > You gave the alliance back to UK with the stations?
?[ 2010.08.02 10:56:48 ] Tarac Nor > sure, no one else wanted them
?[ 2010.08.02 10:56:57 ] Aralis > Not the point.
?[ 2010.08.02 10:57:15 ] Aralis > Thought this would hurt them a good bit more yet that is disappointing.
?[ 2010.08.02 10:59:22 ] Aralis > Wow you really don't care about anythign do you.
?[ 2010.08.02 10:59:34 ] Tarac Nor > i care for me
?[ 2010.08.02 10:59:44 ] Tarac Nor > i make this game about me
?[ 2010.08.02 10:59:52 ] Tarac Nor > everyone gotta have a hobbie
?[ 2010.08.02 10:59:58 ] Aralis > So I gathered. Sad.
That's pretty funny. I'd wonder why Aralis was thinking Hydra wouldn't find a way to keep the laughs coming; then I remembered CVA attacked Catch with BC fleets and actually expected us to win.[ 2010.08.02 10:54:31 ] Aralis > You barred us from your stations?
?[ 2010.08.02 10:56:02 ] Tarac Nor > no i didnt
?[ 2010.08.02 10:56:07 ] Tarac Nor > i gave the alliance back
[ 2010.08.02 10:56:33 ] Aralis > You gave the alliance back to UK with the stations?
?[ 2010.08.02 10:56:48 ] Tarac Nor > sure, no one else wanted them
?[ 2010.08.02 10:56:57 ] Aralis > Not the point.
?[ 2010.08.02 10:57:15 ] Aralis > Thought this would hurt them a good bit more yet that is disappointing.
?[ 2010.08.02 10:59:22 ] Aralis > Wow you really don't care about anythign do you.
?[ 2010.08.02 10:59:34 ] Tarac Nor > i care for me
?[ 2010.08.02 10:59:44 ] Tarac Nor > i make this game about me
?[ 2010.08.02 10:59:52 ] Tarac Nor > everyone gotta have a hobbie
?[ 2010.08.02 10:59:58 ] Aralis > So I gathered. Sad.
This guy is dumb.Tarac Nor > no one wants providence other than newbies and you guys
Superstar > ahh we not gonna get all pissy and smaky are we..?
Tarac Nor > anyway.....do you wanna stick around in corp so i can hand it back karn?
Tarac Nor > also im not gonna get smacky
Tarac Nor >
Karn Mithralia > yes tarac
Tarac Nor > can you apply your alt to Unity Holdings
Tarac Nor > ill transfer control over
Karn Mithralia > yep
Karn Mithralia > done
Tarac Nor > ok
Tarac Nor > your now CEO of holding corp
Karn Mithralia > rgr
~~~~GIMMIE +REP+ GIMMIE~~~~
Wow, CVA. Nice allies.
I know I'm personally not eager to see massive fleet battles break out and I don't see many people signing up for that atm. There's to much chance and risk involved with server stability. I don't think you're giving NC enough credit for what they are doing. They went from defending their home systems to multiple daily roams and fully deployed alliances into southern space. I believe they are fighting the war...However It does seem strange for them not to jump in at the chance to play mean with Butter Dog or Bobby and Co while having other parts of the NC down south as well,it does seem like a lost opportunity that i am sure will never come back and bite them and the rest of the NC in the ass someday.
They aren't taking space, but they sure are in peoples business all day and night. That has some effect. It's doubly annoying when there's no supply lines or station to take back to frustrate their actions.
Many people in this thread don't realize roadtrips are what Razor does.
~~~~GIMMIE +REP+ GIMMIE~~~~
Yes a string of one-sided victories and re-capturing our stations is terrible for morale.
Aralis - delusion is guarenteed™
Sorry to disappoint :-)
I think that a number of people expected more drama, but the fact is that at no point during all this was any pressure truly applied. Friends of U'K stepped up and did an *admirable* job of giving us just a little time to regroup, and the failcascade just never got going. The only vaguely serious disagreements that have come up as a result of all this were a) what will the new alliance be called, and b) what will its logo be. Neither of which quite has enough significance to actually fracture the alliance.
On a final note, whilst I find it hard to actually say something nice to Tarac, I have to give him credit for handing the alliance name back to us. Whilst we had already committed to moving on with D'K, Tarac had the opportunity to be exceptionally petit and refuse to return U'K to us. He retained at least a sliver of honour though and handed it back to us, and I have to acknowledge being grateful to him for this. Still, I wouldn't advise he go on any road-trips through Provi just yet ;-)
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