Bit of column A, bit of column B.Originally Posted by Sircussalot
I'm sure they had some trouble on the initial jumpin, but for most of the fight we were trading blows solidly. Atlas also disengaged and jumped out only to jump back in a few minutes later, so I'm sure that didn't help.
-Sniggerdly-Pandemic Legion-
Altas was in damp domis hoping to disable our guardians. Seems they didnt realise bombers > domis.
Atlas jumped into PL.
Pew pew.
Deagressed and jumped out.
AAA got mad and forced atlas to jump back in again.
Pew pew.
Atlas deagressed and jumped out again (the 20% that was still alive).
Atlas and blob got bombed maybe 8 times during the 40 minute fight.
Retarted FC move, blame him, not the players following orders. Really dude stop fcing
Dasty, get into leadership and make some law and order.........
I decided to risk delegating fighters to my guardian, did some good dps but lost 4 of them
That makes me like 25% of the PL losses by isk in that fight.
-Sniggerdly-Pandemic Legion-
Hmm call for dominixes with sensor boosters.......vs hacs/bombers......didnt work.
tbh i dont like that people feed PL ego with such rapes......who should listen to their gloating afterwards
he unsubbedReally dude stop fcing
not joking
who was fc'ing this one?Retarted FC move, blame him, not the players following orders. Really dude stop fcing
Dasty, get into leadership and make some law and order.........
Ouch ATLAS.
Ouch.
Kinda pleased with this actually, shows that "skill" actually matters now, or the lack of it. That a smaller gang can trump a larger one. At least, until everyone flies armor hac gangs. I'm kind of wondering why this hasn't happened before though...it's not like Dominion or Tyrannis buffed AB's, armor hacs, or guardians/armor logi.
Out of curiosity, could an Armor hac gang with a decent fc and "better" pilots (not in terms of sp, not exactly quantifiable) defeat an equally-fitted, larger, but less-skilled opponent? Maybe one of you armor hac gang fcs/pilots can answer that. I know the answer seems like it's "duh, yes" but if you have enough guardians, couldn't you just tank your opponent?
In essence, could armor hac gangs be at a stalemate vs eachother?
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
Armor hacs win because bigger ships cant track them due to Afterburner, gang mods, drugs and maxxed skills. ab hacs can just ignore BS since they can speedtank them and go for BCs and below and then kill all the BS that are left.
Armor hacs did not work before dominion because AOE titans everywhere.
Armor hacs vs Armor hacs results in both sides diaf unless one side is noob, because they can track eachader. Ships gets 2 volleyd.
100 armor hacs raping 250+ hostiles has happend lots of times, PL vs Blast, PL vs RAGE/NC, PL vs RA etc etc and now PL vs atlas/pets.
19:44:30 Notify Warping to TTPee pee poo poo lol
-Sniggerdly-Pandemic Legion-
how quaint
There are at least 4 known fleet compositions with varying degrees of success against an armor HAC gang, but none of them were evident in this fight, soz
Basically the right answer in this case, if Atlas & pals had intel that a 100-man AHAC gang was on the other side of the gate, and they're in a snipe BS or RRBS or whatever the hell this fleet was supposed to be, is turn around and go home and reship. At the least, titan bridge around the camp, don't just march through the breach and die
Into the breach, you dogs, into the breach once more!
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
from sources that i have, they got pressured into it by AAA
The problem is this: PL while being giant faggots, are really good at remote rep fighting and it shows. Our setups were designed to combat this and it was an experiment. The mindset in atlas atm is we have to start trying new things. So the damps were to increase lock time on their guardians and the target painters to increase the enemy sig radius. ECM was also on the field but wasnt effective. We gave it a shot and it didnt work.
1. with lag generated by such a large fleet made it hard for our logistics to keep up our reps while PL were loaded on field and had their guys locked up before the fight.
2. BOMBS BOMBS BOMBS. They have a devistating effect on fleets especialy when powerballed for RR. Wave after wave of bombs decimated our fleet and there is not much to do to stop them. This is one of the primary reasons atlas has fielded snipers for fleets cause it makes avoiding bombs easier but you cant break the spyder tank of pl.
So basicly at this point, PL is almost an invinceable force. PL's skill in remote reps and bombing mixed in with the strains lag has on the fleet: is allowing them to have such one sided victories. We will keep trying new things until we find something that can break their tank. More comedy killmails will be incoming during the week.
It already happened between MM vs. -A-could an Armor hac gang with a decent fc and "better" pilots (not in terms of sp, not exactly quantifiable) defeat an equally-fitted, larger, but less-skilled opponent?
This. An FC is FC not target caller and gang creator. His biggest role is to judge enemy and his fleet skills and adapt, adjust, know when to engage and when not to engage. This was fucked up and the player skill had 0 to do with it, as you wont really do much when you get into TTP and get
a) bombed
b) instapopped
Though both were in armor hacs, as I recall it AAA had vastly undertanked setups with tons of damage mods. So not quite what I'd call equally-fitted...it definitely didn't play to the strengths of the gang.
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
I am impressed how well system kept up throughout the engagement at least for our side.
thanks for the killmails bros, I've missed bombing you ever so much.
Dasty, my boy, few points. First there is no invincible or near invincible force, thats bullshit excuse. PL are not god nor indestructable. Second the FC fucked it up totally. The quality of the fc´s is simply horrible (due to many factors).
There are ways how to counter them, we both know them. Remember Geminate, how Atlas stomped one inch guy? Why bring bs ffs vs. hacs. Why to fight on their terms, why not be in system before, make them jump, why not use bridges, why not.......
Whats there to test, you just kill morale, and nxt time even less ppl show up.
Hm. How does this bombing thing works in fights like these? Wouldn't you hit your own ships just as much?
bombs do damage based on sig. armor hac gangs are design to low sig
Thanks :-)
It seems that what is quickly becoming apparent lately is that no entity needs to be "godly" or "invincible". It is really about the level of your competition, and if it's shit, then well it's really down to relative levels of effectiveness. For example, MM shitting on AAA's face or PL/Goon anally fisting AAA/Atlas/INIT/Pets. MM and PL aren't godly, but their opposition is kindergarten level so it makes them look better.
whatever you gotta tell yourself, buddy
we lost like 5 ships, so no
I've heard this somewhere before..
Good luck while finding out the real and painful answer
Sec going to conquer drone regions with armor hacs now? =P
When you can't beat 'em join 'em.
The Colorblind Angel of Kugutsumen - Turning Bad Country into Mad Country one post a time
PL does not remote rep. Again, PL does not remote rep, and definitely do not remote rep in armor hac gangs. And Im an expert.
Do I see tears?This was fucked up and the player skill had 0 to do with it
So, it looks like -A- may have a contender for the shit champions.
They got a bloody nose in the north, and PL is repeatedly bottling them. Spin it how you want atlas, but thats definitely one of the most amazing victorys(crushing defeats) in eve to date. Superior tactics and skill > inferior tactics("more people dammit") and skill.
apart from Dastommy, who nobody takes seriously anyway, the only other Atlas person to post about today's matters has been me, and my response was:
spin?
I was responding more to dast than you. And yes i am aware dast ist das uber troll.
I have OPD you see. Obsessive posting disorder. I can never stop posting.
newshit rule one: never stop posting
fyp because you're obviously not in oshit anymore
oshit for lyfe
I would say that is an indication of level of competence
I mean it isn't as if the more competent team is going to fit the incompetents' ships for them to make it an empirical test
I take Dasty way more seriously than you.
heart = brokenI take Dasty way more seriously than you.
This whole armor hac thing is reminding me of the good old nano hac days.
Yo Atlas, try out my assault missile Drake idea, it couldn't possibly go worse than the last fight because you'd be losing drakes instead of domis.
Also, I'm pretty sure webs would have been way more useful on those domis than sensor damps.
I was trying to think who is more shitty at Eve online, Atlas or AAA, but came to the conclusion that they're really one and the same alliance with HspaceAspaceVspaceOspaceC leading. A total of around 15 people were present in the battlereports I've seen that were from decent or decent russian corps in AAA.
I would like to read more on this. What was local's peak at and how was lag? Did anyone have to manually cycle modules?
Skill matters a lot, as do gang bonuses and FCing, which is why paper tigers that used to rely on blobing or AoE DD are failing so hard. MM versus AAA in armor hacs is an example, but that's a case of one shitty alliance beating a much more shitty alliance that's basically MCFIX or ex-providence who were always terrible. Changing alliance names doesn't make you less terrible.
MM used to rely on AoE DD just as much as AAA, but MM's FCs are a lot better.
There is actually an 'armor HAC' gang that convincingly counters all current armor hac gangs at equal skill levels, but no one's used it yet due to a variety of reasons that may fix themselves over time.
Agreed.
It really comes down to FCs when you have such similar compositions. SKill is just knowing when to warp out and listening to that FC. Even if you are down one Logi or up a couple HACs movement of the gang, warp in and warp outs, hell even tackling makes a difference. If the FC has great situational awareness he can rape the field. Take the DOOM gang in P-2 last night. I'm too lazy to link a killboard but it was absolute carnage despite 2 to 1 odds.
“Isn't it funny how the mood can be ruined so quickly by just one busted condom”
Dasty puts out. You're just a bitter bitch looking for an ear to wail on. So I'll cater to dastyheart = broken
The AHAC gangs don't rely on Guardians for their survivability -- fortunately for PL. The Guardians are important, but in terms of survival the PL gangs are relying 80% on speed/sig tanking BS damage and 20% on their logistics to "shore up" the incoming damage that they do take. As noted earlier in the thread, if you faced two of these gangs off against one another you'd see instapops since there would be so much damage going around -- and the majority of it would be hitting because one gang can hit the other easily.
What you have here is an operational-level mismatch. Atlas thought that breaking the Guardian locks was the key to changing that mismatch, but they were wrong about where the strength of the AHAC gang comes from. (Even though PL's narrator clearly explained all of this in the motherfucking video. But what does he know?) Counters with a chance of succeeding would have aimed to counter the strength of the speed/sig tank using webs, target painters, and maybe even (lol) tracking links.
To be fair, we've improved the doctorine from the time of that video slightly to fit with our new increased FOTM fleet numbers -- which was picked up in the ATLAS commentary here. And to be equally fair, the domi damp idea is actually ok (not good, but ok) counter. We've seen worse (IT RR BS), but we've certainly seen better (NC) counters.
We didn't invent or perfect this tactic, we stole it from SoT -- who were the only ones I've seen use these fits with only slight modifications so don't give us credit for that (and no, Vipers nor Blackhorizons fits were reviewed for making these and afaik until recently C H were using MWD armor hacs). We have since added few tweaks due to the numbers we can pull to make this work for our style better and now fit mids differently from SoT. We've also added luxuries our numbers allow us to try to persuate people to fight us the way we'd like them to fight us. We didn't have this luxury when we got countered while testing this out initially.
It is funny people replicating this think it's some kind of new nano -- it's not. And you'll find out why soon enough if you try it.
usual tactic of coalitions is to make things impossible with massive cap/supercap blob. surprised atlas/aaa etc did not do that here
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