Third time's the charm (The Northern Thread)

**Murr** · 2011-06-12

'Vsevolod Bagritsky was fallen by an enemy pulse laser while jotting down some facts passed on to him by one of the men. This was on June 7, YC113, in the system of H-W, the Tribute Region.'

By Vsevolod Bagritsky

I am Goya
of the bare field, by the enemy’s beak gouged
till the craters of my eyes gape
I am grief

I am the tongue
of war, the embers of cities
on the snows of the year YC113
I am hunger

I am the gullet
of a woman hanged whose body like a bell
tolled over a blank square
I am Goya

O grapes of wrath!
I have hurled westward
the ashes of the uninvited guest!
and hammered stars into the unforgetting sky - like nails
I am Goya'

**Omeega** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by Murr

'Vsevolod Bagritsky was fallen by an enemy pulse laser while jotting down some facts passed on to him by one of the men. This was on June 7, YC113, in the system of H-W, the Tribute Region.'

By Vsevolod Bagritsky

I am Goya
of the bare field, by the enemy’s beak gouged
till the craters of my eyes gape
I am grief

I am the tongue
of war, the embers of cities
on the snows of the year YC113
I am hunger

I am the gullet
of a woman hanged whose body like a bell
tolled over a blank square
I am Goya

O grapes of wrath!
I have hurled westward
the ashes of the uninvited guest!
and hammered stars into the unforgetting sky - like nails
I am Goya'

Starting by +repin' a thread makes me feel like the thread is going to be great.

**LLlAMnYP** · 2011-06-12

So Vuk Lau must be Hitler?

**Jirai Grepher** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by LLlAMnYP

So Vuk Lau must be Hitler?

The way he bought a new house.. I think that makes him a Jew actually.

**Pripyat** · 2011-06-12

I was raging for a moment because you are ruining my plan to start every thread with a little update but then i realized this thread will have 50 pages in a few days anyway so i can make a new one.

**Jirai Grepher** · 2011-06-12

50 pages, and only 4 good posts. (none being mine)

**Murr** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by Pripyat

I was raging for a moment because you are ruining my plan to start every thread with a little update but then i realized this thread will have 50 pages in a few days anyway so i can make a new one.

You can always include it in the OP so I can get more rep for your update

**DurrHurrDurr** · 2011-06-12

Page 1 supercapital discussion. Supercapitals need their EHP reduced to that of the Hel's as a baseline and Titans need to become pure logistics ships. Thoughts?

**Jirai Grepher** · 2011-06-12

I think Doomsdays should go back to being AOE, but only effect drones.

**sevar** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by Murr

By Vsevolod Bagritsky

I am Goya
Buy my beans at walmart.
....
I am Goya'

Fixed.

**Krystal** · 2011-06-12

We should all put our differences aside and conquer Serenity instead

**HeliconOne** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by Jirai Grepher

I think Doomsdays should go back to being AOE, but only effect drones.

Doomsday is a siege module which doubles the DPS of every fleet member on grid :xd:

**Russian God** · 2011-06-12

New thread \0/

**MY KICKBOXING GIRLFRIEND** · 2011-06-12

1000 subcaps can't kill a supercap gang of 50. This has to be changed.

**Mynt** · 2011-06-12

CCP will fuck it all up with a heavy handed nerf and tears will flow.

**Malcanis** · 2011-06-12

Calling it now: this thread to be locked before page 2.

**LLlAMnYP** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by MY KICKBOXING GIRLFRIEND

1000 subcaps can't kill a supercap gang of 50. This has to be changed.

So this thread is about supercap balance now?

**BrutorWarrior** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by LLlAMnYP

So this thread is about supercap balance now?

I certainly hope so, there's been a scarcity of such discussions.

**snsmasta** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by MY KICKBOXING GIRLFRIEND

1000 subcaps can't kill a supercap gang of 50. This has to be changed.

The better question is, why does the other side not have any super-caps?

**LLlAMnYP** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by MY KICKBOXING GIRLFRIEND

1000 subcaps can't kill a supercap gang of 50. This has to be changed.

Would you care to at least justify your opinion?

**MY KICKBOXING GIRLFRIEND** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by LLlAMnYP

Would you care to at least justify your opinion?

Sure, the problem lies in that since its inception the parallell patchnotes that was translated to the Serenity server didn't bring any real interest in cameo nature as to the chinese. When actually engaged in meta-cruiser fleet warfare, the chinese are really removed from bi-system sovereignty that has defined EVE as known by those on tranquility. In the first place, Singularitiy's history, events correspond to heterogeneous series which are organized into an alliance system which is neither stable nor unstable, but rather 'metastable,' endowed with a potential energy that is the expectation and result of metagaming. Wherein the differences between favored and popular fits are distributed, in the second place of Tranquility, Singularity's CAOD narrative possesses a process of auto-unification, and the realization of power projection of the always mobile and displaced to the extent that a paradoxical element traverses the series and makes them resonate, enveloping the corresponding singular points in a single aleatory point and all the emissions, all dice throws, in a single cast.

It makes sense for sub-battleship engagements to have an education experience. The conflicting and "grand unifying" asthma attack, player vision of experience, in pre-experienced pre-EVE players, possibly pre-MMO expectations and developer vision. There's a reason beyond politics that the shards are seperated, due to the meme of auto-uncollected sinking of resource dilation. Subcapital fights have little to do with shard economy as they have to do with time preference amongst investors and producers within eve. Titans reach structure and often have no trouble being thrown in and out of the "evecraft" situations that Drake blobs tend to create. What this means for either shard won't reveal itself readily, because the secrecy is nested within metagame influence.

**fulis** · 2011-06-12

That was the most rambling, incomprehensible nonsense I've ever read

**Phineas Freak** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by Malcanis

Calling it now: this thread to be locked before page 2.

sorry could not resist edit: fuck i fail at everything. *looks at beer* *inspect the dirt under his fingernails* *looks outside window* phew kugu still standing strong

**Horus** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by LLlAMnYP

So Vuk Lau must be Hitler?

Stalin not was better... see where i am going to ?

**Xenophon** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by LLlAMnYP

So Vuk Lau must be Hitler?

Well, the Russians did invade from the east...

Also, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt4nSAoA8Lg

**superstarmcawesome** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by snsmasta

The better question is, why does the other side not have any super-caps?

because supers attract supers.

when your space empire crumbles because you and your supercap buddies had "rl" issues you can either join an entity that had dozens upon dozens of supers and swing your epeen around in relative safety or join an alliance that has only a few and can't do shit when the guys with tons of supers come around.

guess what most people choose

**Arkady Sadik** · 2011-06-12

My kickboxing girlfriend has the best ideas about supercap balance.

... thanks for making it possible to say this.

**LLlAMnYP** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by MY KICKBOXING GIRLFRIEND

Sure, the problem lies in that since its inception the parallell patchnotes that was translated to the Serenity server didn't bring any real interest in cameo nature as to the chinese. When actually engaged in meta-cruiser fleet warfare, the chinese are really removed from bi-system sovereignty that has defined EVE as known by those on tranquility. In the first place, Singularitiy's history, events correspond to heterogeneous series which are organized into an alliance system which is neither stable nor unstable, but rather 'metastable,' endowed with a potential energy that is the expectation and result of metagaming. Wherein the differences between favored and popular fits are distributed, in the second place of Tranquility, Singularity's CAOD narrative possesses a process of auto-unification, and the realization of power projection of the always mobile and displaced to the extent that a paradoxical element traverses the series and makes them resonate, enveloping the corresponding singular points in a single aleatory point and all the emissions, all dice throws, in a single cast.

It makes sense for sub-battleship engagements to have an education experience. The conflicting and "grand unifying" asthma attack, player vision of experience, in pre-experienced pre-EVE players, possibly pre-MMO expectations and developer vision. There's a reason beyond politics that the shards are seperated, due to the meme of auto-uncollected sinking of resource dilation. Subcapital fights have little to do with shard economy as they have to do with time preference amongst investors and producers within eve. Titans reach structure and often have no trouble being thrown in and out of the "evecraft" situations that Drake blobs tend to create. What this means for either shard won't reveal itself readily, because the secrecy is nested within metagame influence.

I really couldn't care less, how it is done on Serenity, but since you insist on going off-topic... The system present on tranquility also assumes a metastable state from time to time which can plummet to the ground-level by means of metagaming techniques, as well as plain boredom (hey, let's invade the drone regions!), so the statement really doesn't prove or, for that matter, mean anything.
Could you name any reason beyond politics (specifically, the detached nature of the chinese internet as a whole from the rest of the world) that separates the shards? Resource dilation really doesn't suffice, nor does it have any readily detectable relevance.

So, back to the point.
Why 1000 sub-caps? Why 50 supercaps?
Should 100 caps be able to defeat 1000 subcaps?
Why not make 50 supercaps vulnerable to 2000 subcaps, rather than 1000?
Why not have 1000 drakes shoot down the 2000 or so fighter-bombers that 50 supercarriers can offer and the proceed to obliterate the remaining toothless supers?

In any case 50 supercarriers are about on par isk-wise with 1000 battleships. If it were not for lag, I could see the battle going either way (nerf fighter bombers so they're only useful against other caps?). I don't see anything wrong with 50 titans obliterating 1000 battleships, but I can see that going either way as well.

Oh yeah, and let's not forget, how the NC had a cyno-jammer, supercaps in system and still managed to lose the battle.

**tgr** · 2011-06-12

You're all gay.

**the blender** · 2011-06-12

Shittest thread in the north.

**MY KICKBOXING GIRLFRIEND** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by LLlAMnYP

I really couldn't care less, how it is done on Serenity, but since you insist on going off-topic... The system present on tranquility also assumes a metastable state from time to time which can plummet to the ground-level by means of metagaming techniques, as well as plain boredom (hey, let's invade the drone regions!), so the statement really doesn't prove or, for that matter, mean anything.
Could you name any reason beyond politics (specifically, the detached nature of the chinese internet as a whole from the rest of the world) that separates the shards? Resource dilation really doesn't suffice, nor does it have any readily detectable relevance.

So, back to the point.
Why 1000 sub-caps? Why 50 supercaps?
Should 100 caps be able to defeat 1000 subcaps?
Why not make 50 supercaps vulnerable to 2000 subcaps, rather than 1000?
Why not have 1000 drakes shoot down the 2000 or so fighter-bombers that 50 supercarriers can offer and the proceed to obliterate the remaining toothless supers?

In any case 50 supercarriers are about on par isk-wise with 1000 battleships. If it were not for lag, I could see the battle going either way (nerf fighter bombers so they're only useful against other caps?). I don't see anything wrong with 50 titans obliterating 1000 battleships, but I can see that going either way as well.

Oh yeah, and let's not forget, how the NC had a cyno-jammer, supercaps in system and still managed to lose the battle.

The infamous 'Swiss Army Knife' blog from Zulupark was mostly aimed at carriers ( nobody had motherships back then and the few that did mostly used them for 10/10s and Matryoshka doll logistics), but yeah. People flipped out because it was a mostly bad idea and server improvements subsequently made carriers much more vulnerable since subcaps could actually load grid and fight them rather than being fucked in the ass by a fighter cloud whilst blackscreened.

Again, the nano nerf generated 144 pages of protesting by people from nano-heavy organisations that 'nanoships are fine get your own nanos if you want to compete you stupid noobs' and CCP shrugged and nerfed them anyway, and funnily enough now a whole bunch of people from supercarrier-heavy alliances are saying 'supercarriers are fine get your own supers if you want to compete you stupid noobs'. Meh, whatever, EVE's game balance at its simplest is based around rock-paper-scissors, only with supercarrier fleets we've somehow got some wacky variation where the paper is replaced by a glass pane and so the only way to beat rock is by calling a buddy over and dropping two rocks.

You call it 'false advertising' as though this was some sort of evil CCP plot to generate extra subscriptions, I call it correcting a mistake, and as was said earlier its better to correct it now and piss off 1000 players than in 6 months or a year when its 3-4000 players. Yes, CCP just introduced the Revenant with a hull bonus to FORCE PROJECTION, oh hey guess what: CCP's left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, in other news water is wet. Nobody wants the Revenant anyway, it took GSF three attempts to even sell ours, and the two or three that have been supposedly built have logged off never to be seen again as far as anyone can tell because its a pre-gimped bitter-vetmobile for the terminally unsubscribed.

Short version: You see, supercaps at the moment are very much like fielding a legendary/psychic pokemon team on gen5 pre-poison nerf. By the time Kangashkan would come on the field for that team there would be no stopping it's confusion powers no matter what team you brought because of the synergy it shared with an out-of-play Jirachi, with the persistent battlefield buffs generated by the Zapdos-Palkia combo on the second turn. This is exactly what supercaps are doing, they are setting up a meta-field where no matter what subcaps you bring nothing can ever happen. CCP needs to balance them before they cause irreparable damage to tranquility.

**BiggerDangDude** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by the blender

Shittest thread in the north.

Not yet it's not.

**the blender** · 2011-06-12

But soooo much early potential.

**DrunkRussian** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by MY KICKBOXING GIRLFRIEND

Short version: You see, supercaps at the moment are very much like fielding a legendary/psychic pokemon team on gen5 pre-poison nerf. By the time Kangashkan would come on the field for that team there would be no stopping it's confusion powers no matter what team you brought because of the synergy it shared with an out-of-play Jirachi, with the persistent battlefield buffs generated by the Zapdos-Palkia combo on the second turn. This is exactly what supercaps are doing, they are setting up a meta-field where no matter what subcaps you bring nothing can ever happen. CCP needs to balance them before they cause irreparable damage to tranquility.

If supercaps are pokemon, which one is Mewtwo?

**LLlAMnYP** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by MY KICKBOXING GIRLFRIEND

...

Oh fuck it. Let's just stop at agreeing that supercaps need a nerf, this is getting out of hand.

**LLlAMnYP** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by Horus

Stalin not was better... see where i am going to ?

I had the photo in the OP in mind.

**snsmasta** · 2011-06-12

Originally Posted by superstarmcawesome

because supers attract supers.

when your space empire crumbles because you and your supercap buddies had "rl" issues you can either join an entity that had dozens upon dozens of supers and swing your epeen around in relative safety or join an alliance that has only a few and can't do shit when the guys with tons of supers come around.

guess what most people choose

I was under the impression that both sides had equal number of supers, except one side stopped using them?

**Sa'Shena** · 2011-06-13

Originally Posted by snsmasta

I was under the impression that both sides had equal number of supers, except one side stopped using them?

I'm pretty sure this was roughly true in Geminate when it was NC vs DRF and then things tipped towards DRF when PL started pushing Geminate's shit in and then NCdot, Ev0ke and all them blue'd up and the NC supers buggered off cause the idea of fighting the 200-something all in one system wasn't just foolish it was suicidal. DRF had been buying (Ironically off of the NC) and building Supers for the last couple of months, so any SC losses they had once the steamrolling started they didn't have to stop it to recover losses.

**Makia Velli** · 2011-06-13

Oh noes! Supercaps are taking over yet another thread..

**fugazii** · 2011-06-13

While a shitty poem and a pic is great and all, I haven't had internets for a week and don't want to read 50 pages. Update pretty please?

***Andski*** · 2011-06-13

Basically the past 2 weeks or so have been uneventful. It's really just been structure grinding and some fights over tech moons.

edit: failed snipe

**Kitty Vintner** · 2011-06-13

Boat took a frigate roam out to IRC space tonight. The opening blow was struck when their stellar intel lead a manticore to jump into us, and then smartbombing typhoon shortly after. We didn't manage to kill any ratters, then our intel piped up and told us they were forming up a homeland defense fleet to counter us with like 90 dudes, so we fucked off down to Oasa and some bastards managed to get a tengu kill before the rest of us could get on the mail. We ran back through IRC space and failed to get anything else so we headed home through tenal, killing a cyno rapier.

A few jumps from home boat ran us head first into an NCdot gang because he can't count scimitars. Welp.

This got a little wordy because all I really wanted to post was that I dropped my first bomb in anger and it raised a question because I'm pretty new: Are you supposed to dual prop sabres?

**Atticus** · 2011-06-13

There goes Chain of Chaos...

Lucian Drama
From: Jackal314159
Sent: 2011.06.12 21:21
To: -Mostly Harmless-,

For those that had to put up with lucians shit in trying to kill MH last year, you may enjoy his parting mail to WTF:-

(10:18:40 PM) sage_eveo: Sick Tight leaving WTF *hugs*
From: Lucian James
Sent: 2011.06.12 20:37
To: Controlled Chaos,

Dear WTF'ers..

It is with sadness and regret that I must inform you, Sick Tight will be leaving the alliance effective immediately.

For 3 years.. many of us have been up here.. we've seen our corp split.. had friends come and go.. made it into one NC alliance.. then made another NC alliance. Now, things are not the same.. Personally, I never have enjoyed Fade & Pure Blind as regions in and of themselves (loved EVERYONE in them.. even MH!!).. and the last 6 months of pounding away.. never-ending super serious fleets.. we tried.. we had fun.. and now after all this time.. if I may steal a line from Envy on the Coast, it feels like throwing punches at ocean waves.

Like so many others have felt.. we're strung out.. we're done.. we love you all so so much.. but to stay is an agony I will no longer endure nor inflict on those that wish for something new.

We have achieved much in WTF.. we beat all expectations.. but the direction we head in now disinterests me and many. Politically, we witnessed the lack of original commitment of Goons in the war, coming in once it was too late and now we’re put in a position to work more closely with them. Although Goons have been fun with some pro fc’s, solid organization and bringing good fights with good pilots and even chill to party with RL, we were an NC alliance, not Deko.. and after the way it played out.. just doesn’t sit right with some folk.

We need a break from the area.. it is time for us to move on.. no sov.. no sov warfare.. no JB’s.. no space to really call our own.. something we have to carve out for ourselves.. from scratch.. with some NC friends beside us.. and we are not alone.

Sick Tight is joining Brick Squad in Aridia/Delve. 2-3 more corps in alliance have also decided to join up. I have to let them announce it as they see fit. We will be fighting alongside Morsus Mihi. To say this is going to hurt WTF is an understatement.. I know.. I am sorry.. there is nothing more to be done at this point. We are off to find out what fun was in this game that RMT and CCP see fit to near-ruin. If we find it, we’ll let you know.. you know how to keep in touch.. you are all welcome in my fun fleets.. we are going to miss so many of you.. just know it wasn’t your fault.

Full disclosure: As a result of taking 1/3rd+ the corps with us (we may end up with half+), I have made a withdrawal of funds from the holding corp and moon goo roughly equal to our size. There is plenty more in a reserve fund and no danger of sov bills going unpaid. I dipped into fuel reserves slightly, but left the ships and other various items alone. Isk will be used to pay for fuel etc. for our long trip down. I am sure someone might be grumpy about this, but I think it’s more than fair. Your ongoing moon goo replaces it in roughly 2 weeks. There was no discussion on this issue of any kind and is entirely on me, but I wasn’t in the mood to discuss it and be told ‘no’.

Where to go from here? You may or may not know this, but your corp may be joining us.. we look forward to seeing you. For those of you that stay or go your own paths… please.. keep in touch.. I speak for everyone in Sick Tight when I say, we love you all.. we loved flying with you from the day we met you.. and not a day will go by in this game that your memories and efforts wont resonate with myself, my corpmates and the blues we go off to fly with. The space was Pure Crap.. but you guys made it Pure Fun.

Farewell WTF.. take care neighbors.. so long Mostly Harmless.. may we meet again deep in space, tagged blue.. with DRF, PL or NC. in our crosshairs.

Your loving WTF FC,

Keef Drow / Lucian James

**ihaveahelmet** · 2011-06-13

Originally Posted by MY KICKBOXING GIRLFRIEND

Short version: You see, supercaps at the moment are very much like fielding a legendary/psychic pokemon team on gen5 pre-poison nerf. By the time Kangashkan would come on the field for that team there would be no stopping it's confusion powers no matter what team you brought because of the synergy it shared with an out-of-play Jirachi, with the persistent battlefield buffs generated by the Zapdos-Palkia combo on the second turn. This is exactly what supercaps are doing, they are setting up a meta-field where no matter what subcaps you bring nothing can ever happen. CCP needs to balance them before they cause irreparable damage to tranquility.

Would you say that the current eve metagame is in some ways similar to the over centralization of Garchomp early gen4? And that the Hel is basically Sableye?

**penifSMASH** · 2011-06-13

qq supercaps are too overpowered im too stupid and/or poor to get one myself CCP please dumb the game down so my lazy ass can compete ;_____;

**fugazii** · 2011-06-13

Supercaps should be immune to all non supercap weapons, their ehp tripled and aoe dd and remote aoe dd reinstated. Just sayin.

**Iratus** · 2011-06-13

qq space holding entities don't fight my small gang, please CCP make it so that my wulfpax can destroy their empire because they are wusses and won't give me killmails otherwise ;___;