There is if you're morbidly obese and have Type 2 diabetes and need to use a wheelchair to make it to the kitchen, while I'm only a few pounds overweight and go to the gym every day.Originally Posted by poaw
There is if you're morbidly obese and have Type 2 diabetes and need to use a wheelchair to make it to the kitchen, while I'm only a few pounds overweight and go to the gym every day.
market pvp. whats that > people using the 1isk rule like riftersYou know how hard market pvp is without a good JB network?
Not all the disadvantages, just destructible station services. Which I equate to having a station to begin with. I regard the disadvantages of sov as mostly intangible.
Things like the fact that you can be tied down to fights that may or may not have the best outcome. The initiative goes to the attacker. You are usually required to expand beyond anything that could be considered a small group or bloc up to ensure you can have at least a nominal presence 24 hours a day and all that baggage that comes with it.
NPC does have some "rewards" for the people living there, the mission agents there aren't limited in the number of missions they spawn like anomalies, your assets are secure there, even if you plan on going on a long hiatus, the space is 'neutral' (honestly an advantage and a disadvantage), so you don't need to worry about cynojammed and JB systems, the pirate NPC regions have their truesec.
That's basically it. Sov is meant to be so desirable we're all willing to blow up billions of isk worth of ships to play in that sandpit. Yet the benefits are being nerfed (Anom's), the experience less fun for the average grunt (JB nerf, cyno cloakers and unprobeable campers) and the ability of the big bully to dominate the sandpit ever larger (super-cap proliferation). To the point at which many very capable alliances and players decide that being involved in the Sov game is a losing proposition and it's more fun to just throw rocks at the guys building sand-castles. That's questionable game design if they want a game of player run space empires and the clash of the same.
tbh this is exactly what the problem is. They are needed to grind through structures with a bajillion HP, and gather enough of them they're nigh-on impossible to kill unless you outblob (god I hate that word) with more. If there's another counter than "bring more", then I'd love to hear it.
Personally I've been thinking about how almost every other ship in the game has a certain role, and how supercarriers don't have a specific role (other than "own everything"). This lead me to think up how it would be hilarious if supercarriers didn't have fighterbombers themselves, but either worked as a supercarrier work in the real world, i.e. a ship deployment platform, or as a ship resupply platform. And when I say deployment, I mean that people would dock in the supercarrier, the supercarrier would jump to where the fighting would be, and everyone would undock and fight. And when I say resupply, then maybe it should just have a large SMA with ships for pilots who get popped, to keep fighting. Either way they should have no offensive powers themselves, their role would just be alliance support assets and not solo pwn-mobiles. Bring back the BS slugfests and leave structure grinding to dreads (and scale HP levels back down so it's still not grind-tastic). Either way the SCs would end up having a very specific function which could very well turn the tide, without being required spawned in the thousands just to remain viable on the SOV map.
Not that I expect CCP to be doing any changes of this magnitude, of course, or even listen to any meaningful player input. I mean, how long haven't we been clamoring for a POS overhaul with no change to show for it?
yes, for pvp averse people, sov 0.0 may get a harder place to live, this is why I like the patch. Entities like NC will suffer from it and/or give us a bigger attack surface in the same time.
nature does not adapt to humans' desire for various ways of social organization. rather, it's the other way around.
no matter how the world rules are configured, people will still want to build empires, and some people will want to be nomads and hunters of other people. the rules of the game only dictate the terms of struggle between these people, but it is _never_ perfect for any particular group. it is not a necessity that nature must serve past forms of civilization. whether the NC dies because of a rule change or their own folly, just deal with it.
tl;dr stop whining about game rules and actually learn to use them smartly for your own ends.
I'm impressed that you take time away from your string theory research to post here but let me say that we all appreciate your input. Currently, jump bridges go off in legs that intersect at certain points and often have choke points that can be shut down. Since my ironic statement before went several miles over your head, let me spell it out for you: Usually you have to leave the bridge network (often for quite a ways) to get to a fight. Even if you don't, the bridges themselves can be (and often are) camped by competent people or disabled by supercaps (a lone nyx can take down a bridge if people don't respond in short order). Bridges are less about getting places safely as they are about getting places quickly. You may not be aware, but Eve is a terrible, boring game that takes absurd amounts of real life time to do things in. I realize you are accustomed to being able to "set safest route" and simply autopilot places, but in nullsec we do not have that luxury.
You also miss the simple fact that there is very little reason to go through the insane effort of setting these networks up anymore.
Yes, because CCP is mother nature and EVE is the jungle with rules that are unyielding and arbitrary instead of created intentionally by people who are both open to input and rely on players to make a living. Why don't you keep your "EVE is just like real life" analogies to your blog.
This should help (at least a little) with most of the things that people complain about as being broken in 0.0 right now, i.e. mega-coalitions, super-cap proliferation, and bot/RMT empires.
All of these are symptomatic of the fact that it's too easy right now to amass enormous piles of isk with minimal risk and relatively few actual humans playing the game. High value stuff (moon goo, drone poo, high-value ships, plex loot) need to be more exposed to attack more often. Active (as opposed to passive, infrastructure based) defense of these assets should be more necessary than it is right now.
As it stands, all of the incentive for an individual player who wants to fund that personal super-cap is to join a rich, old empire with lots of infrastructure. You can make a lot of isk in all that empty space while relying on their infrastructure to keep you safe and make it easy for you. When the rich old empire is threatened, they can always pull in their mega-coalition from a third of the map to put up a point defense.
It shouldn't be like that. If you join a rich old empire with few humans actually playing relative to the amount of space they hold you should be vulnarable, and end up getting ganked a lot. The incentive should be for you to join an empire with a player base that actually logs on and is willing and able to fight for that isk on a daily basis.
This is a comedy goldmine for horrible ideas by angry people.
...but think of it this way, even irl people invent God and fates, simply to then submit to them. why this little, needless movement?Yes, because CCP is mother nature and EVE is the jungle with rules that are unyielding and arbitrary instead of created intentionally by people who are both open to input and rely on players to make a living. Why don't you keep your "EVE is just like real life" analogies to your blog.
Yeah, this makes no sense.
just saying that this complaining is the transformation of frustration against facts into frustration against the game world _designer_. it's the same weakness that is let out and then bonded together in religion (and for that matter, all second order externalisations of the real).
then again, you can always play better.
And you could post better.
I think he's just trying to get someone to ask him to post his Battleclinic stats.just saying that this complaining is the transformation of frustration against facts into frustration against the game world _designer_. you can always play better.
yea i could post better but don't feel like it. btw that's not my blog. i'd use pastebin but its formatting makes the walloftext looks monstrous instead of merely lunatical.
then again, i've spent a total of what, 40 hours on following this game. it's a fairly productive experience, but it is just a game of scraps for me.
It's mans nature to criticize and protest everything they possibly can.
Oh hey look, another pointless nerf to nullsec that doesn't affect alliances...
it's really funny when people in test are spouting "sov in 0.0? all risk no reward" when they weren't even touched by the anom nerf. that and the "disable npc services!!!" just shows how knee jerk prone and irrational people who play this game can be.
I have to agree about the knee jerk thing, but i my opinion it applies to ccp also. Theyre looking for quick fixes instead of coming up with better gameplay. I've always argued that there should be more infrastructure that alliances can produces so that a) holding onto what you have is more important, and b) Invading forces and burn the place up causing huge damage without needing to just without use of that area.
Think about it as being able to build roads (expensive + long term investment), and then conversely being able to destroy those roads.
oh absolutely this was managed terribly by ccp. i mean it's obviously dumb to drop this on people so soon when you have to reorganize your entire transport system complete with sov upgrades, plus the statement that they are going to upgrade 0.0 with a mittani-esque ~soon ~ inflection is pretty worrying. hell, i wouldn't be opposed to adding 10-20% range to bridges as well (no more though) but people acting like this nerf is the end to 0.0 are delusional.
It is - if you handwave away all the advantages of sov 0.0 compared to NPC and only look at the disadvantages. True, your station services can be disabled. On the other hand, you have complete control over who can use that station. So there you have a disadvantage matched by an advantage.
You're "paying to have destructible infrastructure" because that destructible infrastructre gives you stuff. It's not an unrewarded overhead or anything. We have no destructible infrastructure because we dont get that option. If you want to push to allow some method whereby we can install military upgrades and cynojammers in NPC for you sov 0.0ers to shoot at, then by all means be my guest.
BRB, just docking in your station, renting an office, installing jump clone and moving some ships there so I can log in and be right in the heart of your space with no warning in intel channels.
Counterpoint: agents.
Really? NPC stations don't have cloning bays, repair services, manufacturing and research slots?
Counterpoint: Seriously, you're saying that mission runners can't be interdicted? Here's a clue: they have to return to the exact same place after each mission.
The NPC vary in MR quality as well. Stain is probably the best for missions, then Venal, then Curse and then Delve and Pure Blind fighting it out to be the worst* - that's a pretty wide variation.
And and just for lulz, if you do pirate missions, you're pretty much barred from doing any serious amount of ratting or plexing in your "home" space, because you have to maintain faction standings, and they tank pretty fast if you start shooting plex overseers.
*I have no idea how Thukker or Serpentis agents are. Somewhere in the middle?
Station services wasn't what I meant by "destructible infrastructure", as you might have inferred by the "paying for them" clause. I was referring to system upgrades, cynojammers, jump bridges, and so forth. All of which are optional, by the way. If you're unable to defend them from a raggle-taggle bunch of NPC sov pikeys, you're quite free not to anchor them, and just rat and plex in uncynojammed space, travelling by gate from system to system. You know, like the pikeys do.
And incidentally, most NPC stations lack at least one of those services. So our station services come pre-destructed, tyvm.
That one counterpoint of debatable and variable worth balances out every single advantage to having sovereignty?
This.
I'd like to point out here that alot of the tears running down the carebear faces seem to be drowned in a fantasy world that their alliance leaders built for them...
"What are we going to do?! we cant cynojam everything except one system and we have to see gates again! How will we survive? How will the jump freighters get into our Market if they are even a tiny bit vulnerable?"
Honestly, this change is well needed. Quit crying over something CCP knows better about.
~handwave~
These COSMOS agents aren't the agents you're looking for
~handwave~
Their agents? Can't you use them too?I can't turn off their agents
Serpentis and Angel missions in Fountain core are actually quite good. There are a decent number of subcorps with their own agents, most of them have L4's and some of them are even Q20. Both factions have at least one corporation delivering ship blueprints and implants.
Unprobeable ships are apparently heading for a nerf, so you'll be able to go one better and farm their mission runners for fun and profit.I can't turn off their agents
Wait what? Where did you read that?
(Talking about unprobable ships being nerfed)
stoffer mentioned it somewhere in the eve-o jumpbridge threadnaught.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard...71&page=22#653
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too
Wow. Has it been 18 months already?
(Still think nerfing unprobable ships is a bad change to make. Stupid to be forced to have your booster ship on grid and so many potential fleet comps and tactics we haven't seen yet that could make use of it.)
"Not unprobeable" isn't the same as "easy to probe". If the chance-to-probe levels off in an asymptotic curve, for instance then it will never actually reach zero.
The idea behind making the booster unprobable is that you can just sit it in a SS and run links with your mindlinked booster alt. Instead of having to constantly be switching back and forth to check dscan and hope they don't have a SB or CovOps warping to you.
It's one of the few advantages roaming gangs have against HD fleets, knowing that they probably won't have one available so they either won't have the bonuses or they'll likely be right there on grid where you can target them directly.
If its about getting places quickly rather than safely WHAT REALLY IS GOING TO CHANGE?
Your whining about the change then saying its not gonna effect anything really because they already aren't safe and already are absurd to build, If thats the case who cares that your limited to 1 per system.
Now you are just gonna have to choose in "Hub" Systems where you could have 3 Bridges all to differant directions what is most important for you and your organization, That is a good thing, Eve is a game of pros and cons, without these its not special at all, So it will hurt coalitions who traditionally have used a "Hub" system for tons of purposes and directions and make them make the tough choice, Who is most important? Logi? Sending armies through a popular route? And these choices are what eve is all about.
People that say it will wreck 00 are crazy, 5 Months from now when If I ask how they are they will have adapted or someone else will have, Eve is natural selection and this is definitely not a species killer.
Eve is like a snuff film, First you get Raped, Then you get killed.
Good then you will go from 3 Unsafe JB`s to 1 Unsafe JB, So what is the problem?
Eve is like a snuff film, First you get Raped, Then you get killed.
I could, but I'm a sov-holding carebear, so I'm busy with sanctums instead. Which you can turn off BTW. And nerfing unprobable ships is fucking stupid.
The problem is your reading comprehension. I'm not going to write it up a third time.
Malcanis, your effort is awesome. You type a lot to try to convince with facts and logic. You type well.
But you are typing at people who are in the Northern Coalition. People who just joined some random Northern Coalition alliances right out of the box and understand little of how things work in the game. Whether they joined DEM0N HUNTERS, Spacemonkey's Alliance, Fidelas Constans or Goonswarm Federation, these Northern Carebears will never "get" why their babybridges are overpowered and why this is a necessary change to make 0.0 almost as dangerous as 1.0. Your attempts at pouring knowledge into their brains will never get much of a result, they're dumb players who don't understand anything but easy living. They've never lived in NPC 0.0, so they mouth off that it's better space even though they wouldn't last a day there without losing 1-15 ships. Just try to imagine someone from Majesta Empire living in Curse, or someone from Wildly Inappropriate living in Syndicate or someone in Goonswarm Federation living in Everyshore. Hell, it'd be akin to sending the Boy Scouts to garrison in the Congo.
You might as well be trying to convince a Muslim that women's rights are peachy, or a right-wing christian that abortion is tasty, end of the day, you've got no shot at it. Northern Carebears love their babybridges and will epic-rage and tear all over every forum in the history of ever because their super easymode just became normal easymode and that they might have to give some thought to their trips through "lawless" space. The horror, the woe, the struggle, this trail of tears.
Absolutes are OK now?
Then i want a highslot mode that jams all CONCORD distress calls on grid
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
I don't think their target is the booster-alt. It's all the mission running Tengus in OMS, and BEs Nightmares. Your booster alt is just going to be collateral damage.
So when someone turns off your sanctums, you can go to NPC nullsec and run missions. Do you get a lot of neuts in your upgraded systems running your sanctums for ISK?I could, but I'm a sov-holding carebear, so I'm busy with sanctums instead. Which you can turn off BTW. And nerfing unprobable ships is fucking stupid.
The whinging about NPC nullsec is a bunch of butthurt. There is no iHub in NPC nullsec, so if a corp/alliance wanted to take advantage of anomalies, or complexes, or grav/radar sites, they have to go flying about every system in a constellation to scan down if one or more of these options exist. That's easily 5-6 gate jumps. In Sov space, you can put up an iHub, install one end of a jumpbridge, and put the other end wherever you want (within range). Sov player wants to get an anomaly/complex/grav/radar site? One jump in with the bridge, and voila - instant results. Yeah, NPC nullsec sure has the advantage there. Oooh, NPC nullsec has indestructible stations. So when you decide to go screw with the corp/alliance staging out of the NPC station, they have no freaking idea that you are in their station, with ships, modules, ammo and whatever else until you log in. Sov space you control who has access to your stations. No surprise logging in to find local filled with reds docked in your station. Waaah, NPC nullsec has agents and missions. Really? Agents and missions are the ONE unique thing about NPC nullsec that could be considered an advantage, assuming there isn't a bubble on the undock, or on the gate(s) between the station system and the mission system, or a red/neut gang in local camping the station. NPC nullsec has always been nullsec lite, for those who don't want to be controlled by Sov warfare, or want to move beyond HiSec/LoSec but are not in a position to survive a supercapital fleet taking their space away, and locking down any assets that might be in a conquerable station.
Yeah you still aren't "getting it." Those upgrades aren't really worth a whole lot at the moment. Mining upgrades are a joke and virtually impossible to maintain. Anom upgrades were recently nerfed pretty hard and even with them unnerfed you could STILL make as much money in high sec with no risk. Bridges and supercap construction are really the only reasons to hold space at the moment and one of those is the subject of this thread, isn't it. I know that because it has the word "upgrade" in it you assume it's actually "better," but the main point of the objections to this change isn't "oh god my bridges cry cry" but "holy fuck why do we bother holding space anymore?" There is a good reason why PL no longer tries to maintain space, you apparently just haven't figured it out yet.
Certainly not your ability to do math.
CCP are so unfair because they are making the game require
why cant i have everything for free? i mean, why should i have to risk getting my ship blown up to make 50mil/hour?
this isnt fair, im going back to wow
also, its not fair that my space doesnt spawn good anomalies anymore yet regions like delve do, i mean, its so OUTRAGING that some regions are worth more and better than others. this needs to be fixed
And for their next trick, Intel Channel Nerf ... wait that's Test Intel Channels get full of crap every day anyway...
Mizuchi, come on, surely you can do better than that. At least HandofSatan put in some effort in his troll, yours is just weak.
CCP are so unfair because they are making the game require
why cant i have everything for free? i mean, why should i have to risk getting my ship blown up to make 50mil/hour?
this isnt fair, im going back to wow
also, its not fair that my space doesnt spawn good anomalies anymore yet regions like delve do, i mean, its so OUTRAGING that some regions are worth more and better than others. this needs to be fixed
cause, you know, it's a game, not a job. of course there needs to be some effort required, but if it becomes too tedious, people will just quit to play games that are actually fun.
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