NC vs SC: Will it occur?

[Against NO Authorities]

Nice theory crafting - but your surmises seem to be compelte and utter crap to me.

Best case scenario - NC collapses back to Tribute with lots of fluffy carebear alliances getting nice n squished in the process - re4ducing the size of the NC to more manageable proportions, and thereby opening up some Northern space for soem entrepreneurs to block up and seize elements of either West or East (Vale/Gem or PB/Fade/CR) or even better - both. Bringing the Drone regions into it is something I doubt anyone in their right minds would consider.

If anything the decent corps from the fluffy carebear alliances will be absorbed into MM/RZR like IT did with the GBC and there will have an even more stagnant North due to not having the constant threat of an impending fail cascade among the carebear alliances. The IT model is the future of the game, the advantages of a unified alliance instead of various smaller groups is pretty massive and the NC is ripe for that transition assuming the incoming invasion is successful in blasting the smaller alliances into bits. They can always keep the smaller alliances around like IT does to fill shitty regions like CR and Geminate.

[Securitas]

Can you expand a little on why my surmises(surmissions? lol, what's the word) are complete and utter crap? Maybe why the drone regions are not valid?

Speaking of the drone regions, didn't CCP release some statistic a while ago that said something like 85% of the high-end minerals come from the Drone Regions? If that's true, with the new buff to supercaps, it seems any power bloc in control of the drone regions would be able to produce supercaps like crazy AND possibly even regulate mineral prices (on the higher end stuff) to some degree. Sorry for the tangential question. :P

[Wusti]

I'll let others describe the why's and wherefores of why the Drone Regions present such on obstacle - but think abuot it for a bit and you'll figure it out. I also find myself agreeing somewhat with Against NO Authorities to an extent. But there are limits to the IT model expanding beyond them (NC is ripe for it though no doubt). Basically, EVE is full of egos, and at both a corp level and to a lesser, but still present extent, the required merging into supercorps, and little alliances into large ones is a self-imposed barrier for many. Everyone thinks themselves and their formulas/ideas unique. In some cases with justification - in most cases without. This "egotism" (in a non-judgmental sense) limits how far this trend can go.

Take the AU TZ as an example. ANZA is the only "megacorp" from this timezone pretty much in the game - with everyone else quite fractured into much smaller corps and diverse in political alignments. The end result of this is that most Aussies and Aussie corps within alliances end up marginalised to an extent with most of the decision makers making them on opposing TZs. Thye are forced to either look seriously at ANZA (yeah like fuck that - no offense :P), join established megacorps in other blocks, or be junior partners in smaller alliances.

This is actually the reason why I've decided to say fuck that and give formation of an Australian TZ dominated alliance a shot (wish me luck guys!). A large grouping of Aussies who actually can PvP and hold their own is something lacking in EVE right now. Buts that's another story

[pinoyzzz]

It's because most Australians are terrible at Eve (and kiwis are even worse) in general, nevermind PvP. Out of the dozens I've known over the past 7 years, I can count the number that were good at PvP on one hand (and one less when jamesw joined ccp).

[Quesa]

My most popular options:
CCP Ends EVE Online and put all their developing prowess towards Eve Online2.
CCP resets the current Eve server starting everyone over at square 1.

None of these will likely ever happen.

Edit: Drone Regions are crap, so nobody goes for it. Anyone who has lived there for any extended period of time and then removed, will likely quit their current Alliance/Corp if they decide to go back. =)

[pinoyzzz]

I wouldn't count on drone regions being crap for much longer.

[Securitas]

I wouldn't count on drone regions being crap for much longer.

Any particular reason why?

[Against NO Authorities]

I wouldn't count on drone regions being crap for much longer.

I thought it was the other way around won't the insurance nerf bring mineral prices down?

[Faife]

I thought it was the other way around won't the insurance nerf bring mineral prices down?

that's my camp as well. i doubt that planets will somehow make them more variable, and i don't think they're about to make drones have bounties (though that would fix them)

[Against NO Authorities]

that's my camp as well. i doubt that planets will somehow make them more variable, and i don't think they're about to make drones have bounties (though that would fix them)

Some goons are theorizing that the planets will produce a intermediate material required in t1 production but who the fuck really knows at this point.

[SpaceHermit]

I remember some bullshit threadnaught on General Discussion of Eve-O about the insurance being fucked on the test server

Is there anything concrete on this?

[Wusti]

It's because most Australians are terrible at Eve (and kiwis are even worse) in general, nevermind PvP. Out of the dozens I've known over the past 7 years, I can count the number that were good at PvP on one hand (and one less when jamesw joined ccp).

Fuck off troll I'm not responding to that one... oh shit i just did... nvr mind

[Kaeydan]

In my opinion the NC needs to fall before any third (or 4th, or 5th) blocs can emerge. The NC, even in the absence of enemies, will not internally reset and break up. It is fundamentally a defensive organization. The Southern Coalition, however, is much more aggressive and when faced with a lack of enemies, will create more from it's own ranks. The best bet for a splitting of the powers is for the NC to fall and break apart. Now, this probably isn't very likely, but if I had to guess, it's the best and perhaps only way for it to happen. IF the NC falls, the SC will follow. Atlas and IT already have a sort of mutual grudge, even though they're willing to work together against the NC.

The Drone Regions are incredibly stagnant at the moment and it'd be nice for future blocs to inhabit there. You'd have more action AND have the most boring space in Eve spiced up simultaneously. There is so much space that you could pack many, many alliances in there.

TL;DR: The NC needs to fall for eve to be reset, some need to split off the NC, and it'd be optimal if they lived in the drone regions.

That is one of the most stupidest things I have ever read. Seriously. What drugs are you on?

The NC blue list was cut back significantly after Delve 2. Razor went off to do their own thing, and failed, but the NC is only one humongous entity when it comes to defence against threats perceived against the whole North.

How many non-blue small corps or alliances are living in Fountain or Delve? None? We don't actively squash the little people unless they hit our assets. Venal is a cesspool of people red to us, our best ratting space is held more by our enemies than us. It provides us with an endless stream of good quality smaller scale pvp fun. That is the kind of pvp people enjoy. Sov wars are just a means to an end. We want space, we need space. We cut back our blue list and anyone not blue with us blue-up with eachother. That isn't how you encourage downscaling.

Our only real crime is bailing out alliances that can't defend their space from small weak entities who do not represent a threat to the entire north. I think any entity should be forced to defend their own space in equal numbers.

Don't kid yourself, the only reason the NC exists is because BoB used chronic numbers to crush opposition for years, it has only been recently years since the GBC pets have keeled over and died that NC has been numerically stronger.

There will NEVER be any change. There is safety in numbers and whoever is looking down the barrel will want to blue up as many people as possible.

Realistically, MM and Razor could just reset everyone else and disband the coalition and say we will just hold Branch, Tenal and Tribute, all the other entities wouldn't last 6 months and if our enemies needed to come at us 10:1 to bowl us over they would do that. There is no honour in war. People will do whatever they need to do in order to win. If the health of our neighbours wasn't an important part of our own defence then why would we bother dealing with the clusterfuck that is defending their space constantly?

[RansomList]

I thought it was the other way around won't the insurance nerf bring mineral prices down?

If insurance gets nerfed hard then the minerals market will crash, with t1 ship prices dropping sharply. Insurance payouts are an artificial inflation of mineral prices currently and the only determinant in such; the basic minerals are in such massive oversupply...

We will then see some fluctuation due to market manipulation ( ) and Hulk pilots deciding its not profitable to stare at turd colored rocks for hours at a time, but prices will stabilize thanks to refined mission loot and macro mining. Expect T1 ship prices to decrease significantly and Mods to take a slight dip in price.

T2 will be slower to react to changes because most production lines cant afford to cut into what are already slim profit margins on a lot of items and will hope to ride the tailcoats of speculators for a while; remember a lot of people are holding their breath for some vast as of yet not properly defined conflict that will shake up moon ownership again.

[graalum]

That is one of the most stupidest things I have ever read. Seriously. What drugs are you on?

you should try reading your own posts sometime

[Securitas]

That is one of the most stupidest things I have ever read. Seriously. What drugs are you on?

The NC blue list was cut back significantly after Delve 2. Razor went off to do their own thing, and failed, but the NC is only one humongous entity when it comes to defence against threats perceived against the whole North.

How many non-blue small corps or alliances are living in Fountain or Delve? None? We don't actively squash the little people unless they hit our assets. Venal is a cesspool of people red to us, our best ratting space is held more by our enemies than us. It provides us with an endless stream of good quality smaller scale pvp fun. That is the kind of pvp people enjoy. Sov wars are just a means to an end. We want space, we need space. We cut back our blue list and anyone not blue with us blue-up with eachother. That isn't how you encourage downscaling.

Our only real crime is bailing out alliances that can't defend their space from small weak entities who do not represent a threat to the entire north. I think any entity should be forced to defend their own space in equal numbers.

Don't kid yourself, the only reason the NC exists is because BoB used chronic numbers to crush opposition for years, it has only been recently years since the GBC pets have keeled over and died that NC has been numerically stronger.

There will NEVER be any change. There is safety in numbers and whoever is looking down the barrel will want to blue up as many people as possible.

Realistically, MM and Razor could just reset everyone else and disband the coalition and say we will just hold Branch, Tenal and Tribute, all the other entities wouldn't last 6 months and if our enemies needed to come at us 10:1 to bowl us over they would do that. There is no honour in war. People will do whatever they need to do in order to win. If the health of our neighbours wasn't an important part of our own defence then why would we bother dealing with the clusterfuck that is defending their space constantly?

Okay, you're basically saying you're disagreeing with me and that this will never happen because it would not be the smartest thing to do. I agree with you there. You and Razor and MM and many leaders may not want a more fractured EVE, and that's fine.

I prefer an EVE with smaller blocs, however, and I was only theorycrafting how the EVE that I personally think would be the most fun to play in might come about. I realize that you or many in the NC may not share my ideals and that's fine. But all I said was that in my opinion this would be optimal. I even said multiple times that it was unlikely

So don't make yourself look like an idiot by saying "OMG O_O THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN YOU'RE STUPID."

-emm

[Kaeydan]

I do not know of anyone in the NC who complains about a lack of pvp. There are plenty of red entities near and around NC space, we have lots of fun, and there is no stagnation. If you Southerners are tired of nap trains, then reset eachother.

Also, as a defensive organization, doesn't that mean new power blocs can arise as long as they do not aggress the NC?

Since we hit Insurgency pre-Max I don't think I have logged in one day where there wasn't pvp action to be had. We have a great mix of small, medium and large scale conflicts going on. Be it playing with some Venal citizens to pirates who like to drive by to visiting alliances like PL to hitting bigger entities like our engagements with the Dronelanders at present. Tri is usually good for 3 months of entertainment a year.

Nobody up north has to log in and watch ships spin, there are fleet x-ups every single day from fun fights to jewgold defence or just frequent large scale conflict.

[Elektrea]

CCP have confirmed the insurance changes. What it will really do no ones knows.

[Kaeydan]

Okay, you're basically saying you're disagreeing with me and that this will never happen because it would not be the smartest thing to do. I agree with you there. You and Razor and MM and many leaders may not want a more fractured EVE, and that's fine.

I prefer an EVE with smaller blocs, however, and I was only theorycrafting how the EVE that I personally think would be the most fun to play in might come about. I realize that you or many in the NC may not share my ideals and that's fine. But all I said was that in my opinion this would be optimal. I even said multiple times that it was unlikely

So don't make yourself look like an idiot by saying "OMG O_O THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN YOU'RE STUPID."

-emm

I'm not saying that it isn't more desirable, i am saying it will never happen because it is not human nature, even in a game. The only way something will change if the mechanics make it difficult to blob up.

I don't think you are stupid for theorycrafting, I said you would have to be on drugs to believe anything would change if NC keeled over and died. You would then see a fracture in the south with two sides and each would bloat out until they encompassed the remnants of dead alliances. You would still have two massive blobs, they would just fly under different banners.

It has really been the same shit since the dawn of EVE. There has always been two major sides with a lot of deadshit alliances just doing nothing or waiting their time to die or blue up.

The mechanics just do not even create an option where you can thrive as a smaller entity. The sov changes have done nothing because holding sov is still determined not by your ability to defend space but your capacity to destroy. Alliances have lost no real space because they still have the means to destroy anyone who starts to claim systems in their space.

The only way to hold your space is to have enough friends that would prevent you from being steam-rolled by vastly superior numbers. While that remains constant you will never see change, no matter how much people prefer smaller scale conflict because nobody is going to put themselves in a vulnerable position willingly just to preserve "the good fight".

[King]

Since we hit Insurgency pre-Max I don't think I have logged in one day where there wasn't pvp action to be had. We have a great mix of small, medium and large scale conflicts going on. Be it playing with some Venal citizens to pirates who like to drive by to visiting alliances like PL to hitting bigger entities like our engagements with the Dronelanders at present. Tri is usually good for 3 months of entertainment a year.

Nobody up north has to log in and watch ships spin, there are fleet x-ups every single day from fun fights to jewgold defence or just frequent large scale conflict.

the amount of shit you come up with in every post is extraordinary...

[Kaeydan]

CCP have confirmed the insurance changes. What it will really do no ones knows.

It will make it more expensive to fight, it will favour the rich and industrial heavy alliances as wars of attrition would be a lot faster than they are at present.

[graalum]

If anything the decent corps from the fluffy carebear alliances will be absorbed into MM/RZR like IT did with the GBC

i don't think that the new ex-gbc corps in it were necessarily carebear, they just sorta sucked

[Yorda]

CCP have confirmed the insurance changes. What it will really do no ones knows.

It will drop t1 ship prices.

[Kaeydan]

the amount of shit you come up with in every post is extraordinary...

What, are you claiming we have been sitting twiddling our thumbs? People claim we just blue ball up and have no pvp. I said that isn't the case, you want to actually prove me wrong rather than just post you usual one line of crap?

[Yorda]

i don't think that the new ex-gbc corps in it were necessarily carebear, they just sorta sucked

They were mindless drones that completely followed anything BoB said anyway. Making them join IT was a no brainer because all BoB's fleet were ex-GBC or GBC themselves apart from a few FCs.

It won't work as well in the NC because, as people have already said, there's a lot of egos and feelings of independence. Plus you'd have a huge shitstorm deciding how to lead the alliance, who was in charge of what, etc. (unlike IT).

[Dastommy]

That is why i love atlas. Our standards are low, i leadership is subpar, our fleet comms are atrocious BUT we are for the most part all friends playing internet spaceships and have a passion for trolling bobby

[graalum]

CCP have confirmed the insurance changes. What it will really do no ones knows.

massive deflation, boost to bounty ratting/missioning/anoms at the expense of mining and drone ratting, and general industrial activity. pretty much the opposite of what kaeyden said.

[Kaeydan]

massive deflation, boost to bounty ratting/missioning/anoms at the expense of mining and drone ratting, and general industrial activity. pretty much the opposite of what kaeyden said.

Yeah, because alliance capital fleets are funded by ratters and complex runners.

[Yorda]

Yeah, because alliance capital fleets are funded by ratters and complex runners.

Yes because we all know how large scale fights work so well and alliances are often losing tons of caps.

Min prices go down, prices go down, amount of time ratting to replace ships goes down (therefore value of ratting / complexes goes up). It also fucks over people who 4-5 box minig to make crazy money.

[Securitas]

Could a theoretical cartel which controlled most or all of the drone regions also control mineral prices(at least some of them)? I'm asking because I honestly don't know.

[Against NO Authorities]

Could a theoretical cartel which controlled most or all of the drone regions also control mineral prices(at least some of them)? I'm asking because I honestly don't know.

No, a huge amount of minerals come from mission runners in empire. Also, all of the minerals are in a "basket", the combined prices are always going to be near or above insurance payouts. So if trit fell a huge amount another mineral would have to rise to compensate to keep the combined price at or above insurance payout. Someone who actually produces stuff probably knows more but that's how I understand it.

[graalum]

Yeah, because alliance capital fleets are funded by ratters and complex runners.

ours is

[Malaclypse]

I am in the NC

This made me fall over laughing. Fails with ED, runs Stealthbomber wulfpax against WI and ME, FOTM joins Atlas, is in ME for about a week or so, spouts "I am in the NC". Clearly you are to be taken seriously.

I don't think you are stupid for theorycrafting, I said you would have to be on drugs to believe anything would change if NC keeled over and died. You would then see a fracture in the south with two sides and each would bloat out until they encompassed the remnants of dead alliances. You would still have two massive blobs, they would just fly under different banners.

For once Kaeydan is right. Anyone who honestly believes that EVE would magically turn into mall bloc wulfpax ~good fight~ heaven once/if the NC falls should check his medication. It didn't happen when BoB/KenZoku died, it didn't happen when the RSF fell apart, it didn't happen when Goons didn't pay the bill. In fact it lead to a (re-)fortification of blocks, not the opposite. If the NC shall fall, so be it. The only thing that'll change will be which blocs decides, respectively will be sorted out to be the new red/blue, nothing else.

There is the Atlas/GC/Primary/CoW bloc, the AAA/U'k/Sys-K bloc, and the IT bloc. Whether or not resets between certain parts would occur are debatable, but any fractures would probably occur along those lines.

I bet money on that the first fractures that would appear will occur between the big boys and the small alliances. When the NC is dead and nobody bothers for the Drone Regions, GC/CoW/Primary will be the first ones to lose their space.

[Securitas]

This made me fall over laughing. Fails with ED, runs Stealthbomber wulfpax against WI and ME, FOTM joins Atlas, is in ME for about a week or so, spouts "I am in the NC". Clearly you are to be taken seriously.

Yea it's okay though cause I fail at everything. Except making people on the internet laugh. Which makes me better than most people on this forum.

PS Actual Content: Being in the NC isn't something I'm especially proud of. I'm here cause my friend Kesper offered me an opportunity and I like him.

[Xunasy]

At least your not part of the southern napfest blue 5 regions in each direction.

[Malaclypse]

Yea it's okay though cause I fail at everything. Except making people on the internet laugh. Which makes me better than most people on this forum.

PS Actual Content: Being in the NC isn't something I'm especially proud of. I'm here cause my friend Kesper offered me an opportunity and I like him.

For not being proud of being in the NC and just being around because of a personal invitation you certainly adopted rather quickly to identify with what you're not proud of to be part of.

[Securitas]

For not being proud of being in the NC and just being around because of a personal invitation you certainly adopted rather quickly to identify with what you're not proud of to be part of.

No, that's not right. I used it as evidence/support that I know how difficult it can be to find PVP around the North's home regions.

[Malaclypse]

No, that's not right. I used it as evidence/support that I know how difficult it can be to find PVP around the North's home regions.

And that 1 week experience cleary gives you credit. WTF, you have Geminte full of red entities right next to you. There's AAA and others in lowsec just 1 to 3 jumps out of P3EN. I really dunno what your problem is. Do you think there are hordes of neutrals/reds (to the region holders) living in Omist, Catch, Delve, etc? If you want masses of wulfpax good fights in your own region go live in NPC-0.0 or in lowsec. That regions occupied of medium-big to big sized entities are usually rather " relatively well" patroled/cleansed of enemy holdings and lacking domestic enemies is nothing unique to the North.

[Securitas]

And that 1 week experience cleary gives you credit. WTF, you have Geminte full of red entities right next to you. There's AAA and others in lowsec just 1 to 3 jumps out of P3N. I really dunno what your problem is. Do you think there are hordes of neutrals/reds (to the region holders) living in Omist, Catch, Delve, etc?

Yes, but "Geminte" has mostly Russian TZ pilots, and the only other prime place for PVP, FDZ, is completely stuffed with PL. Usually it's me solo or a small gang, so that "cleary" doesn't work too well.

Seriously though, did I blow up your internet spaceship when I was in S-F or something? =/

Edit: I never said the situation in Atlas/the south was any better. I want the SC to end as much as the NC. They're both the same tbh, maybe the SC is a bit more aggressive, but that's it.

[Malaclypse]

Yes, but "Geminte" has mostly Russian TZ pilots, and the only other prime place for PVP, FDZ, is completely stuffed with PL. Usually it's me solo or a small gang, so that "cleary" doesn't work too well.

Seriously though, did I blow up your internet spaceship when I was in S-F or something? =/

So because you can't hold yourself against PL the North is a shitty place to find PvP in. You can be glad TRI isn't roaming through Venal/Tribute/Vale around anymore now that they are folding. Would be even less PvP for you because you can't win against them. Your talking bullshit, that's the only "issue" I have with you.

[Securitas]

So because you can't hold yourself against PL the North is a shitty place to find PvP in. You can be glad TRI isn't roaming through Venal/Tribute/Vale around anymore now that they are folding. Would be even less PvP for you because you can't win against them. Your talking bullshit, that's the only "issue" I have with you.

Yeah yeah, I know I suck at PVP, you don't have to rub it in. :'( To be fair I do a lot of pvp even when I don't think I can win, but I'm not rich enough(read: I suck at anomalies) to do it as a steady diet near home.

Anyway, enough of the fighting, lets move on.

[snsmasta]

Blocks/blobbing will never die, even if all the major powers die now they will just be replaced by different players(blocks).

[Wusti]

So because you can't hold yourself against PL the North is a shitty place to find PvP in. You can be glad TRI isn't roaming through Venal/Tribute/Vale around anymore now that they are folding. Would be even less PvP for you because you can't win against them. Your talking bullshit, that's the only "issue" I have with you.

Mal - methinks thou dost protest too much...

[Malaclypse]

Mal - methinks thou dost protest too much...

FUCK YEAH! <insert generic rage-rabble-babble>

[Murr]

At least your not part of the southern napfest blue 5 regions in each direction.

Evil Thug must be so proud.

[Murtas]

Evil Thug must be so proud.

He played WoW, why not.

[Phreeze]

You may talk about gay magic fagging here: http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread...lk-about-magic

Not this thread though.

[Iseeyouseemeseeyou]

You can be glad TRI isn't roaming through Venal/Tribute/Vale around anymore now that they are folding. Would be even less PvP for you because you can't win against them. Your talking bullshit, that's the only "issue" I have with you.

I think Sec. blew up your internet spaceship.

[Malaclypse]

I think Sec. blew up your internet spaceship.

Indeed; let me show you on this doll where he touched me...

[Kaeydan]

ours is

lol and what happens when you are invaded and under the pump with pos to save and stations to save? What is the command then? Don't x-up and defend, shoot rats and run plexes? When Max hit both sides were losing trillions in isk each month. Good luck generate that ratting during an invasion.