your right, how poor you haven't been kicked out of delve yet. And good thing Haargoth is still an active and loyal director in BoB.Originally Posted by King
thats a cool name btw, BoB, I hope you guys keep it.
your right, how poor you haven't been kicked out of delve yet. And good thing Haargoth is still an active and loyal director in BoB.
thats a cool name btw, BoB, I hope you guys keep it.
i didnt say you did nor do i wish to see the north dead, burning maybe, the relationship of the north and south is sort of symbiotic in that one needs the other to focus their hatred on if one side controlled all it would be subject to intense internal fractures and eve would be pointless
Well, lag has always been a part of EvE, something that you have to deal with, certainly, at one point it was great but CCP fucked it up. That does not mean we should sit around and bore ourselves to fuck because of it. No, we deal with it and keep going.
Its the leaderships responsibility to provide the member base with goals and things to do. If they cannot provide that, that member base grows bored, either quits and become bitter vets or move on the greener pastures.
the troll was actualy about Max one, Delve didnt involve a fail invasion but guess you are toooooo stupid to realise ....
haha, delve never fell to an invasion, amazing assessment.
maybe if the SC kills off the NC, it will no longer be powerbloc v powerbloc, but alliance v alliance: SE v Sys-K, or Tri v Flavor of the Week, or ROL v Angels.
and i'll fart paint out my arse onto canvas and make millions selling it rich dumb fucks!
You retarded if you think this would happen, same thing was said when GS lost delve and when Bob lost delve. Well maybe pl attacking the NC for "goodfights" was the only real reset which just fucked them when IT attacked.
The real problem with this is that simply by virtue of the formation of these blocks, it makes them incredibly hard to break down again. Why? Because people who previously didn't think they would work together DO, and begin to form personal relationships (both bad and more importantly good). Once formed, they make the RE-forming of them much much easier, and increase the likelihood of reformation if one of them comes under the pump from an agressor.
So even if the SC can and does smash the NC for a period of time, the heart of the NC would remain. During the ensuing boredom of the SC block, even if NIPs were enacted and they started roaming each other, the second a serious challenging force arises again, it'd be back on and quicker faster because they have worked together before. Some faces and names may change - but now that we're here - I doubt there is ever a way to go back.
They should just rename EVE Groundhog Day now and be done with it. The likelihood of a legitimate 3rd or 4th power rising which is truly neutral to both blocks is ridiculously low.
not with IT still in the picture
Well, the powerblocks have only themselves to blame for this.
Right now, with a very few and very shitty exceptions, each major alliance is either allied to the North or the South in one way or another. This is because the powerblocks wont let anyone else come in to 0.0. Both sides have expressed their boredom with the current situation yet neither is willing to fix it. A truely neutral block or alliance is not capable of taking any space for more than a week because as soon as they attack someone smaller (say, a pet or renter) and start dropping SBUs, the big boys come in and chase them off. Both sides claim they want "good fights" but, for example, when Darkside / Section 13 went up against a pet of Primary and dropped a couple of SBUs, in a matter of hours, Atlas was all over it with their cap fleet and blasted them away back to Curse. And that was 1 or 2 systems of a small renter of a pet (Primary) of Atlas.
It's the same in the North with Evoke - they try to take a bit of worthless space in one of the Rings and the residents wont let them - they start to fail so batphone the NC and they send enough in to chase out Evoke (again).
Now, Evoke wont give up, and Darkside will keep doing what they're doing because they ARE getting the good fights out of it - but the NC or the SC aren't having the good fights, they're happy to bring in more cap ships than the "new power" has people online.
And then they go to CAOD, SHC and here and complain about how it's so boring.
My alliance is a renter from Atlas (originally Triumvirate in wicked creek). We're a pvp alliance although I'll be the first to admit we're not very good at it. Due to us roaming the space of the renters of the pets of Atlas, regions away from where we are, we've now been sent a mail (well it was to all renters, but I can read through the lines, it was aimed at my alliance mostly) saying we need to stop because the poor delicate petals in Fuzzy Nuts and Cult of War have had their feelings hurt so much by our gangs of 10 people that we now aren't allowed to attack them. But it's ok guys, we are still allowed to attack the drone regions.
Oh, I've sent a mail asking if it's ok if we still roam UK / AAA space since that's the nearest bed of neutrals now we've had to blue everyone for 30 jumps but I'm going to guess the answer is no, because it'll cause "problems" because Tripple A or UK also don't like their feelings to be hurt.
It is not possible, no matter how hard you try, to be a "neutral" entity in sov holding 0.0. Even in NPC space, last time Tri was up in Venal (not this time), the NC and PL brought in over 900 people to camp us in at the time - more than we had in our entire alliance, because they didn't want the *good fights*.
You big powerblock guys have made your bed, you're going to have to lie in it and if it bores you out of the game that's your own fault.
PL camped Tri with NC?! When did this happen?
[spoiler=This is a spoiler][spoiler=Another spoiler][spoiler=Guess what?]-A- is shit![/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler]
oo god... a while back now - back before the 19.7 debacle (a month before?). Shadoo (may have been Shamis) was there waving at us in local - in H-PA. Oh now I'll admit it was 90% the NC and their pets but whether it was a PL gang that happened to be nearby or they just came for the lols, there was a PL presence there, they made it known in local.
you sound bitter :/ heres an idea go live in npc space and reset everyone and go hurt peoples feeling
Sage advice from -SPY-, notorious pirate alliance and IT meatshield.
aww arnt you cute
but i am right he's bitching about too many blues its very simple find somewhere that dont have blue lists and pew pew
It's good advice it's just funny coming from an IT petaww arnt you cute
but i am right he's bitching about too many blues its very simple find somewhere that dont have blue lists and pew pew
everyones someones bitch, mines IT yours is the NC
i ain't no one's bitch.
are you the corp ceo?
why would i ever want to be the bitch to an entire corp?are you the corp ceo?
Yes, of course it is - NPC 0.0.aww arnt you cute
but i am right he's bitching about too many blues its very simple find somewhere that dont have blue lists and pew pew
But that wasn't the topic, though, was it? It was about powerblocks and the possibility of a 3rd or 4th arrising. I was highlighting that it's not possible because anyone who gets within 10 light years of another powerblock is eradicated - by the very blocks complaining that it's all about power blocks.
What 3rd powerblock is even possible? It's not like the two sides are holding legions of empire dwelling pvpers who would otherwise be in 0.0 at bay. Everyone in EVE is aligned except for a few alliances that either don't want to get involved or are just fine being opportunistic (Cry Havoc, Ev0ke, PL at this point). The only way a new powerblock could form is by the splitting of one of the existing ones.Yes, of course it is - NPC 0.0.
But that wasn't the topic, though, was it? It was about powerblocks and the possibility of a 3rd or 4th arrising. I was highlighting that it's not possible because anyone who gets within 10 light years of another powerblock is eradicated - by the very blocks complaining that it's all about power blocks.
We could theorycraft all day about a possible 3rd powerblock, but in the end it won't happen because everyone is exactly where they want to be right now.
sadly thats the state of eve its a mirror of the real world at one point e.g Nato vs Warsaw pact. entities through out history have bonded together through alliances why shouldnt it happen in eve? if the game was real it would be happening, human nature is to hunt as a pack the bigger the pack the stronger you are the more powerful you becomeYes, of course it is - NPC 0.0.
But that wasn't the topic, though, was it? It was about powerblocks and the possibility of a 3rd or 4th arrising. I was highlighting that it's not possible because anyone who gets within 10 light years of another powerblock is eradicated - by the very blocks complaining that it's all about power blocks.
I've never camped TRI into stations and I'm pretty sure Shamis is too ADD to stay in a station system for more than 5 minutes unless he's stopping there to do one of him many bowel movement breaks during ops (literally, there are usually at least two). We did do some comedy Rifter / Thrasher ops to north back those days -- but we were neutral iirc to NC at that point in time already. You might have mistaken us for someone else.
Anyways -- this whole powerblock thing is and always has been fueled by some old grudges and as such will not get reset until one side comes to some kind of conlusion. The "old" multipact came apart after Delve mk2 and I suspect this whole new SC pact will start coming apart after MAX mk2.
It takes good 6 months or more to dissolve those old agreements thou regardless of standings and multiple big cap fights with lots of expensive explosions. It is bound to happen eventually though when people finally realize how utterly shit the block movement is, thou there will always be some careful guard who are more interested in having the winning odds no matter the cost.
I'd put to that pile MM/RZR, ATLAS and IT in the current big alliances -- so there'll always be some kind of block around those catalysts.
I agree entirely... just find it amusing that they then complain about it when they're the ones who've set it up like that v0v. I'll go hide away now for another couple of weeks until i have another useless comment to make.
Uhm, you are clearly remembering it wrong, PL and TRI weren't even close when you got camped. PL was in Curse if I understand what episode you're talking about correctly. Probably the last time PL and Tri fought was during MAX.
[spoiler=This is a spoiler][spoiler=Another spoiler][spoiler=Guess what?]-A- is shit![/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler]
Hmm it must have been Shamis then because I was there in the station in a cap ship ... we were about to go some tower bashing op or something and we had to do it before the huge swarm of NC / allies came in.. just as Inzi was calling for the caps to undock local went up by like 600 in the space of a minute.. people on vent were laughing at the sheer numbers, Inzi / Twinky yelled for everyone to stay docked for now... "There's Iron, MM, Razor" etc was being said on vent... someone then waved in local "hey PL o/" from Tri's side and someone beginning with S in PL waved back - if it wasn't you, it must have been Shamis because I recognised the name. Unless there's any other people beginning with S in prominent positions v0v
As I say, it could very well have been just a small gang travelling through and happened to be there at the same time - it certainly wasn't PL that tried to camp us in for 3 days straight (when Tri finally said fuck the north and went somewhere else) but there was at least some members in the initial wave.
I am not remembering it wrong - I very clearly remember that day because if Inzi had given the order a few minutes earlier to undock than he did, we'd have lost probably half our cap fleet.
As I said to Shadoo, it may not have been a planned PL + NC idea, but there was some PL there - possibly from just a roaming gang in the area - and they waved at us in local. It wasn't just me, we were on vent at the time and it was being talked about there. You may not have been there but there was some PL in the system at the same time the NC piled in.
It was probably just TheAdj hanging out with his razor buddies or people who left jump clones there who wanted to see the show, I was active at the time and certainly don't remember anything like this. What is more worrying is that you seem to believe it yourself! PL wasn't even blue to the NC at that time.
[spoiler=This is a spoiler][spoiler=Another spoiler][spoiler=Guess what?]-A- is shit![/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler]
So.. what? I'm making it up? I've convinced myself stuff happened that didn't?I have no idea whether PL and the NC were blue or red or whatever - I don't care, either. I have not gone crazy and started believing in imaginary ghost fleets of PL
We were all in H-PA ready in caps for some op or another. Inzi and Twinkey were FCing. We knew the NC was going to come in and we wanted to get our caps out and do an op before they could.
Literally just as Inzi said "I want all amarr caps to undock now, in 30 seconds I want all gallente... wait hold guys... DO NOT UNDOCK" local shot up from about 140 to 750 ish in a matter of seconds. We got the "hold guys, 1 sec" from the FCs whilst the command channel lights were flashing on and off. We started chatting on comms, local was being filled with "lol" and "brought enough with you?" type stuff... local hit 900 at one point and in amongst all that, someone from PL was waving in local and that was picked up on comms with someone saying "they even got PL out here too!".
That is what happened. It wasn't imaginary. Fuck, it's not even important tbh.
It's not important but you are still wrong. Seeing a PL dude in local is different from "PL camped us in H-PA with NC", which is what you said, and you were wrong.
Hell, applying your logic I could say that Tri helped IT because Spacesavage and other Tri dudes passed by MN5 when IT tried to camp PL.
[spoiler=This is a spoiler][spoiler=Another spoiler][spoiler=Guess what?]-A- is shit![/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler]
You heard it here first, one person is an entire alliance.So.. what? I'm making it up? I've convinced myself stuff happened that didn't?
We were all in H-PA ready in caps for some op or another. Inzi and Twinkey were FCing. We knew the NC was going to come in and we wanted to get our caps out and do an op before they could.
Literally just as Inzi said "I want all amarr caps to undock now, in 30 seconds I want all gallente... wait hold guys... DO NOT UNDOCK" local shot up from about 140 to 750 ish in a matter of seconds. We got the "hold guys, 1 sec" from the FCs whilst the command channel lights were flashing on and off. We started chatting on comms, local was being filled with "lol" and "brought enough with you?" type stuff... local hit 900 at one point and in amongst all that, someone from PL was waving in local and that was picked up on comms with someone saying "they even got PL out here too!".
That is what happened. It wasn't imaginary. Fuck, it's not even important tbh.
The idea that I have "free will" is the only irrational belief that I allow myself.
If I am wrong, I had no choice in the matter.
Well I said that in my reply to Shadoo and every post after that. :-)
I'd remember seeing Shamis in local too tbh, it's a rare and memorable occasion when it does happen every 6 months or so.
Find a tri member that was there when this happened and search for them on the nc killboard and find a ship that was lost during this gut wrenching incident and then look at who was involved in the fight. There be your evidence, if it exists. tbh if PL and Tri were in the same system and not blue I'd shoot PL first.
Darius JOHNSON is an entire alliance.
also, this is the dumbest argument ever.
Random question.
North vs. South with alliances looping around to fight, essentially making a doughnut. What happens in the middle?
A giant fucking party as the capital producers start stockpiling for the inevitable "oh shit we lost 400 dreads in one day" event.
The idea that I have "free will" is the only irrational belief that I allow myself.
If I am wrong, I had no choice in the matter.
A giant fucking party as supercap producers start stockpiling for the inevitable "oh shit shrike lost 5 titans in one week" event.
In my opinion the NC needs to fall before any third (or 4th, or 5th) blocs can emerge. The NC, even in the absence of enemies, will not internally reset and break up. It is fundamentally a defensive organization. The Southern Coalition, however, is much more aggressive and when faced with a lack of enemies, will create more from it's own ranks. The best bet for a splitting of the powers is for the NC to fall and break apart. Now, this probably isn't very likely, but if I had to guess, it's the best and perhaps only way for it to happen. IF the NC falls, the SC will follow. Atlas and IT already have a sort of mutual grudge, even though they're willing to work together against the NC.
The Drone Regions are incredibly stagnant at the moment and it'd be nice for future blocs to inhabit there. You'd have more action AND have the most boring space in Eve spiced up simultaneously. There is so much space that you could pack many, many alliances in there.
TL;DR: The NC needs to fall for eve to be reset, some need to split off the NC, and it'd be optimal if they lived in the drone regions.
I will be personally leading the vale front. My men are well trained and eager for a fight. We will erase ME in one week.
It's on like donkey kong bitches
QFT.
Even while NC whines its head off about IT or whoever coming to attack them, we all know perfectly well that unlike any potential attackers, the NC's NAP list is permanent and contributes massively to the stagnation of EVE.
One of the most stupid arguments is that of expecting the game to go back to the state it was 3 years ago. I just wish people would understand that.
Also, have you ever thought how long this list that isn't permanent has lasted? Because you really can't call a year and a half temporary. This is another tragic argument.
~~~~GIMMIE +REP+ GIMMIE~~~~
Numbers trump anything. In the current state of the game you're going to have two "blocs" even if there is a bunch of infighting within them.
The idea that I have "free will" is the only irrational belief that I allow myself.
If I am wrong, I had no choice in the matter.
The game just wasn't designed for everyone to have carriers and thousands of freighters moving freely in empire. People complaining about naptrains just have to look at what enables them and advocate for solutions to those problems if they want them to go away.
Pardon me, but could you quantify "stagnation"? I keep hearing this accusation but the nature of the issue never seems to be described.
(also, NAP stands for non-aggression pact, whereas the NC is a mutual defense arrangement)
Even without those things you'd still just see two be blocs. With three blocs, two would just ally up and kill the third and then go back to fighting each other. Kinda like what happened pre delve 1.0.
The idea that I have "free will" is the only irrational belief that I allow myself.
If I am wrong, I had no choice in the matter.
alot of people who have never heard of game theory itt
I do not know of anyone in the NC who complains about a lack of pvp. There are plenty of red entities near and around NC space, we have lots of fun, and there is no stagnation. If you Southerners are tired of nap trains, then reset eachother.
Also, as a defensive organization, doesn't that mean new power blocs can arise as long as they do not aggress the NC?
I am in the NC: when we are not being attacked(read: invaded) it is difficult to find pvp on a small-gang level. If you're in Vale, depending on what TZ you are in it can be very difficult to find a fight (of appropriate size.)
Also, no it does not. Quite simply speaking, there is no "available" space in eve at the moment, neither is there a group of unaffiliated alliances that might suddenly create a new bloc. A new bloc would have to break away from an existing one. If the southern coalition had a split, well, it wouldn't affect anything in a large way, because the north would still survive and take up the massive amount of regions it currently does. Some space needs to change hands, specifically in the drone regions and the North.
The south already has quite a few "infant" blocs that will appear from the fracture lines should their main enemy, the NC, collapse. There is the Atlas/GC/Primary/CoW bloc, the AAA/U'k/Sys-K bloc, and the IT bloc. Whether or not resets between certain parts would occur are debatable, but any fractures would probably occur along those lines.
However, the north does not have any of these "underlying blocs," it has 1 bloc which occupies a positively massive amount of space. Post-southern-fracture, should a small "new" bloc decide to invade, at maximum only 1/3 of the south would blob together to fight it, emergency blueing notwithstanding. The Drone russians have a similar stance to the NC: they are 1 bloc covering a very large amount of regions. They don't even have a very high pvper-to-system density. Thus, for real fracturing of the politics in eve, it is the NC that must break up, and the emergent blocs must occupy the drone regions. That's the only viable outcome that I see, anyway.
-Emm
Nice theory crafting - but your surmises seem to be compelte and utter crap to me.
Best case scenario - NC collapses back to Tribute with lots of fluffy carebear alliances getting nice n squished in the process - re4ducing the size of the NC to more manageable proportions, and thereby opening up some Northern space for soem entrepreneurs to block up and seize elements of either West or East (Vale/Gem or PB/Fade/CR) or even better - both. Bringing the Drone regions into it is something I doubt anyone in their right minds would consider.
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