Incursion malapoopism

[Lucas Quaan]

Not really, I'd not be interested in running incursions in 0.0 because frankly if you run one near me I'd try to kill you and I'm going to assume you'd do the same to me.

Good. This is exactly the kind of content I would like incursions to bring in 0.0 and low-sec.

There are safer ways to make isk in 0.0, the chances of you killing me whilst I run a plex is far far lower than you killing me running an incursion. Also unlike hisec incursions I'm not going to have to move my expensive incursion ships into red space to run one or two a week.

Then you only run the ones near your own space where you have the home turf advantage of intel channels and defence fleets. There is also very little risk of you dying while running incursions in 0.0. You are sitting in a gated anomaly 30+ AU from everything filled with rats that will prioritise targets using points and e-war, so any gang going after you will be dealing with you AND the rats.

It is almost perfect conditions for small gang fights if you run across other people in there. Both of you are in 10 man gangs with 2-3 logis. Just take 10 min out of your jewing and have a good fight over system control. Text-book definition of win-win.

[Hilmar Keller]

Actually there's really nothing worth doing that's triple boxable either when you factor in the time you spend looking for plexes and the fact you're using multiple accounts.

I used to triple box serpentis plexes with two T3s and a guardian and when we moved into fountain I'd scan nearly every single system in the region for complexes every day, then run every worthwhile one I came across. I spent about a week doing this and only three of the ten or so plexes I ran actually dropped anything worthwhile, amounting to about 2.5b over thirty hours of jewing, or 83m per hour for three characters. Which is less than I'd make if I just used one of those characters to blitz highsec L4s.

Maybe I'm just unlucky.

And to think, had you used those same three characters to run Incursions, you'd have made about three to four times as much without the threat of getting awoxed/hotdropped/etc.

[tgr]

And to think, had you used those same three characters to run Incursions, you'd have made about three to four times as much without the threat of getting awoxed/hotdropped/etc.

Lies. Hisec is dangerous. DANGEROUS, I tell you!

[MpozoY]

You obviously can't take away Concord for highsec incursions, because they'd become ghost towns. I don't see why you couldn't, say, double the response time in affected systems or in the anoms themselves.

You could probably also bring highsec incursions down a bit just by twiddling the gates to deny battleship and T3 cruiser hulls from entering.

[Mfume]

You could probably also bring highsec incursions down a bit just by twiddling the gates to deny battleship and T3 cruiser hulls from entering.

It wouldn't change the isk/h, it'd just shift the fleet comps around a bit.

[Mfume]

You are aware that the amount of anomers are well beyond that of incursers creating a greater injection based on sheer number, yes?

Exactly. If you're concerned about inflation, you look to anoms, precisely because they have much more effect on the health of the economy than incursions.

EDIT: This I don't see as a problem as much either. What bothers me is that Empire Isk Injection > all by a retarded margin. The average isk per hour of an empire dweller is greater than that of a null bear. This is an issue.

I think I said in another thread that nullsec should be spawning faction and officer rats at a much higher rate and be pretty much semi-predictable in their appearance. Since pirate faction modules tend to be equivalent to empire faction, this would simultaneously devalue empire LP. Buff 0.0, nerf empire, etc. You could also take current data on high isk per LP items and move them to a low-sec only LP store, which would further devalue highsec LP and encourage players to get their beak wet outside of CONCORD's protection.

[Viribus]

Incursions likely have a higher influence on inflation than the raw numbers indicate on the basis that before incursions, people who are now running them were probably running L4s, which is a minor ISK faucet that's offset by the isk sink of LP stores.

[MpozoY]

It wouldn't change the isk/h, it'd just shift the fleet comps around a bit.

Somehow I doubt the guys spending well over a bil on Nightmares, Lokis and what not are doing it just for kicks

[Mfume]

Somehow I doubt the guys spending well over a bil on Nightmares, Lokis and what not are doing it just for kicks

if your superjews ever actually sat down and ran numbers/did testing on what can be done outside of "lol gooncursion ahacs", you'd know exactly what what else is viable. as it is, what you're implying here is nearly as wrong and dumb as when you said that each incursion only had a finite number of "good" sites.

[Fix Lag]

Nobody calls a Theta a bad jew. Nobody.

[syndic thrass]

CCP makes Incursions super easy money because you cant bot them. 1b to someone playing > 600m to a bot.

[Dego]

if your superjews ever actually sat down and ran numbers/did testing on what can be done outside of "lol gooncursion ahacs", you'd know exactly what what else is viable.

While I agree that putting a discriminative gate system on incursions isn't the answer, the reasons Gooncursions use AHACs has less to do with isk/hr than it does with logistics and skill availability. Moving battleships from incursion to incursion is obviously much more difficult that moving cruisers, and having a bunch of blingy, slow battleships is a much juicier and softer target for the local low sec pubbies. Also the use of ahac fleets allows us to utilize low sp members who will almost definitely be able to fly hurricanes. (and avoid suffering the wrath of dhd) The fact is that we really could care less about isk/hr since we're probably already making more isk than the average high sec incursioner and having more fun than the average 0.0 ratter.

Your idea about faction/officers spawning in low/null sec, I think is great, and I also agree with the comments on non sansha incursions: it makes a lot more sense that the local rats invade and also the sanshas are fucking creepy + 3(?) more super carrier models that no-one will ever use.

Removing concord response in highsec would obviously be really :realistic:, but would also obviously kill incursioning. Personally I think it would be cool to see gate guns/concord fighting with rats on the gates/stations maybe lowering response time to player aggression?

[Mfume]

The fact is that we really could care less about isk/hr since we're probably already making more isk than the average high sec incursioner and having more fun than the average 0.0 ratter.

You're making competitive isk with highsec superjew groups. Even with maelstroms (assuming proper comp, obviously), you'd be making more, no troll. Not necessarily in the site completion times of NCOs, but in the ability to complete all three VG sites expeditiously. You'd never have to stop farming just because the system was maxed out on NMCs and OTAs.

Also: lowsec dudes largely won't mess with anyone with 2-3 logis with them, at least not in the US or AU TZ. If you think they're going to be a problem, get a bunch of falcon alts and leave them at safes, if there is one thing lowsec hates more than logis, it's falcons.

[Dego]

How long has it been since you ran with testcursions? I have a feeling that some things have changed since then~

[domino]

Then you only run the ones near your own space where you have the home turf advantage of intel channels and defence fleets. There is also very little risk of you dying while running incursions in 0.0. You are sitting in a gated anomaly 30+ AU from everything filled with rats that will prioritise targets using points and e-war, so any gang going after you will be dealing with you AND the rats.

It is almost perfect conditions for small gang fights if you run across other people in there. Both of you are in 10 man gangs with 2-3 logis. Just take 10 min out of your jewing and have a good fight over system control. Text-book definition of win-win.

Personally I don't see all those hi sec alts moving back into lo-sec if they can hi sec incursions. They'll just do other stuff, if they want those isk making alts (and lets me honest that's all they are) in 0.0 they need to buff the unique ways of making isk in 0.0.

[Grath]

Personally I don't see all those hi sec alts moving back into lo-sec if they can hi sec incursions. They'll just do other stuff, if they want those isk making alts (and lets me honest that's all they are) in 0.0 they need to buff the unique ways of making isk in 0.0.

What?

No. Where have you been? The anom nerf pushed people out of 0.0 looking for other income streams, right around then incursions popped up.


Since then, anoms have bee rebuffed, nearly to the point (if not better) than before. Only nobody cares because Hi Sec Incursions make such retard levels of money. If you nerfed High Sec incursions to make about 15% more than lvl 4 missions, then you'd see people either A) move to the low sec incursions or B) move back to 0.0 and return to the anoms which make fairly decent money.

[domino]

What?

No. Where have you been? The anom nerf pushed people out of 0.0 looking for other income streams, right around then incursions popped up.


Since then, anoms have bee rebuffed, nearly to the point (if not better) than before. Only nobody cares because Hi Sec Incursions make such retard levels of money. If you nerfed High Sec incursions to make about 15% more than lvl 4 missions, then you'd see people either A) move to the low sec incursions or B) move back to 0.0 and return to the anoms which make fairly decent money.

I agree they would move people back into 0.0 but I don't agree they'd run incursions so the boost in PVP you seem to think will happen won't. People will just go back to plexs and anoms where the risk of getting popped is very low.

I'm your average 0.0 player and if I knew that some other people where running incursions not to far from me it wouldn't take too much effort to get 60 well armed chums to pop over their and fuck around with them. Given that level of griefing unless it was deep in your space why would you bother.

[Ron Mexxico]

What you eat don't make me shit - where's the love?

[poaw]

How long has it been since you ran with testcursions? I have a feeling that some things have changed since then~

Unless you took a whole lot of people out behind the chemical sheds, then nothing has changed.

[Dego]

I agree they would move people back into 0.0 but I don't agree they'd run incursions so the boost in PVP you seem to think will happen won't. People will just go back to plexs and anoms where the risk of getting popped is very low.

I don't know, I can see some of the more elitist incursion teams banding together to run in lowsec if their isk supply is cut off in highsec.

Unless you took a whole lot of people out behind the chemical sheds, then nothing has changed.

Coms really aren't that bad. Strat op coms are much worse.

[Lucas Quaan]

I'm your average 0.0 player and if I knew that some other people where running incursions not to far from me it wouldn't take too much effort to get 60 well armed chums to pop over their and fuck around with them. Given that level of griefing unless it was deep in your space why would you bother.

Because fights are a good thing and putting a valuable objective to fight over that also happens to promote small gang roaming in low-sec and 0.0 is a content boost no matter how you look at it.

[Kevin]

Speaking from my own point of view, there's good money in nullsec if you're set up. If you've got a couple alts, you're doing some market stuff, some exploration and some ratting, you can make great income.

Alternatively, you can stick an alt in hisec and do incursions for the same money in half the time. Between WH PI, a little bit of marketing in hisec, and running a couple hours of incursions a week, i can plex 2 accounts and have plenty isk left over for losing ships. Incursions and PI are fuckign fantastic income for people who can't/won't spend hours and hours ratting every couple days.

Infact there's so much money available that even having access to a -1.0 system i can't be arsed to rat, its dull, its boring, and its slow by comparison.

[Manny]

You know I had a thought about Incursions. Perhaps Incursions were CCP's way of creating a "weak dollar strategy" deflating isk value. Which is what WOW did to combat RMT. Unintended cosequences I guess.

[Chadbrochill17]

What?

No. Where have you been? The anom nerf pushed people out of 0.0 looking for other income streams, right around then incursions popped up.


Since then, anoms have bee rebuffed, nearly to the point (if not better) than before. Only nobody cares because Hi Sec Incursions make such retard levels of money. If you nerfed High Sec incursions to make about 15% more than lvl 4 missions, then you'd see people either A) move to the low sec incursions or B) move back to 0.0 and return to the anoms which make fairly decent money.

C) People would just farm incursions for a longer period of time. That period being in direct relation to whatever percent reduction in ISK/hour has been made.

Sadly, I am willing to bet the majority of people would choose option C. Whether you want to call the "risk averse" or simply say they have no balls, most people will choose the activity with the lowest risk when attempting to farm the ISK they use to partake in riskier activities.

[Grath]

Im confused, do you not understand how many people stopped running anoms to come to empire and do incursions? Its not like we're talking about random high sec pubbies here, these are people (like me) who have and do make money in 0.0, but because there is literally no comparable isk to high sec incursions (short of titan ratting) they're all streaming into high sec to do these. IDK if you've been to an incursion system when its in full swing, but they are jammed fucking packed, and I know a lot of these people, I fight with or against them on the regular. Many alliances now have incursion groups in them that come to empire to make 'easy isk'.


So no, you won't drag the high sec pubbies out to 0.0, but if you make it worth more to jew isk in 0.0 than it is in empire, then you'll at least get the 0.0 population to return to where its supposed to be.

[Kevin]

I was going to make a joke about Grath benig literally hitler and herding jews back into their 0.0 slums but instead i just agree with him.

Actually if you look at it how its supposed to be, incursions are good. Especially for alliances without tech and reimbursement, your average pilot can say 'this PVP BC = 1 hour of incursioning so I don't mind losing it" instead of "This PVP BC = 2-3 hrs of anom.belt ratting in my 0.0 rental system in my raven"

If you can spend 2 days incursioning and that covers the average player's PVP losses for a month isn't that a good thing?

The issue is where a certain group of people equate the isk in their wallet to a high score, and you'll note its the same people in the top 10 for incursions repeatedly. These people fuck with the system, and crash the LP market, and fuck with the plex market. The extra money doesn't seem to make people less risk averse, either. So incursions make it easier for those who like to blow things up to spend less time ratting and more time fighting. But the risk averse hisec wallet-watchers are still risk averse hisec wallet watchers, they just have a pile more isk.

[Calderus]

If you can spend 2 days incursioning and that covers the average player's PVP losses for a month isn't that a good thing?

Yes, as has been said many times, the problem isn't the isk. Its the fact that its in high sec, and very close to risk free. Having PVE content for groups that returns a lot of isk / hr is great. Having it in high sec, especially with 90% of the effective isk from this source coming from high sec, is not good, as it breaks the risk / reward trade-off that encourages people to live in null.

[Grath]

Its the fact that its in high sec, and very close to risk free. .

If you have any kind of intel network its literally completely risk free since all the people that grief high sec incursions are from 0.0 alliances. I pretty much know when I can and can't run these things, and if they are out in suicide BB fleets I just go roaming for a few days.

I'm literally just whoring money at this point, I'm up to 70 fitted subcaps at this point, mostly faction fit faction ships since i literally have nothing else to do with the money (I COULD buy another supercap and super pilot i guess but meh).

[tgr]

You could run an unironic isk doubling service in jita local and turn from Grath the angry to Grath the benevolent.

[ISnipeAllDay]

Rather then nerf something a relatively small part of the playerbase is participating in (although the isk coming from it is obviously disproportionate), I think the best course of action would be if CCP tried to please everyone by leaving hi-sec incursions as a high source of income for those willing to get organized and shell out the initial isk investment for it, but to also implement a similar nullsec option. Yes, there are already nullsec incursions, but they really aren't comparable to the hi-sec option.

Let's face it, the benefits of being a sov holding nullsec alliance really have no wow factor for the average grunt. There are benefits, but nothing too special. So, what if CCP implemented a system where, via some means (structure, upgrades, etc...), an alliance could introduce permanent (for as long as the structure or whatever is up and online) group oriented anomalies. Basically introduce 'vanguard' systems etc... without it being an actual incursion with the same pay scale if not more then normal nullsec incursions. This would provide members of the alliance a great source of income that emphasizes group play which is what alliances, corporations, and sov holding are all about. They can make more money than they could in hisec, if a small pvp gang presents itself people will already be formed as a group and would be far more likely to engage (And game mechanics such as no more sites spawn or no payouts with more than x uncloaked neutrals or hostiles in system). People had previously mentioned targets for small gangs? Perhaps the structure that enables these to be spawned can get disabled with a 1 hour cool down before it can get repped or something which would give groups running said anomalies a huge incentive to engage.

[Slycat]

So no, you won't drag the high sec pubbies out to 0.0, but if you make it worth more to jew isk in 0.0 than it is in empire, then you'll at least get the 0.0 population to return to where its supposed to be.

After running an incursion that happened to spawn in our home 0.0 constellation, I've now seen the light and am selling all my 0.0 ratting ships and buying a shiny incursion ship in high sec. I now realise I've been wasting my time 0.0 ratting/anom running. We just fought hard for 30+ 0.0 systems and now I'm off to high sec to make isk....

[ungrided]

I remember seeing a nightmare for the first time and thinking "*drool*so beautiful, I must have!"
I imagine all players play eve because of spaceships and everyone has their favorites, the PVP happens later,
incursions allow people to afford their favorites, twink them, fly them in the safest parts of space AND get to use them in combat (albeit PVE) with other people, they give people what they want the quickest, safest, most painless way and I think that's good, enjoyment, fulfilling desires when the game was a new exciting experience, if there was an easier way for middle aged men to buy the boyhood dream sportscar why not do it? I do like incursions but is there a danger it is giving players 'endgame' too quickly?* ultimately diminishing the playerbase? I hope not

*yes sandbox endgame is generally an oxymoron, the hypothesis is players set their own endgame, like owning a certain once-unattainable ship, it depends on individuals desires

[domino]

Rather then nerf something a relatively small part of the playerbase is participating in (although the isk coming from it is obviously disproportionate), I think the best course of action would be if CCP tried to please everyone by leaving hi-sec incursions as a high source of income for those willing to get organized and shell out the initial isk investment for it, but to also implement a similar nullsec option. Yes, there are already nullsec incursions, but they really aren't comparable to the hi-sec option.

Let's face it, the benefits of being a sov holding nullsec alliance really have no wow factor for the average grunt. There are benefits, but nothing too special. So, what if CCP implemented a system where, via some means (structure, upgrades, etc...), an alliance could introduce permanent (for as long as the structure or whatever is up and online) group oriented anomalies. Basically introduce 'vanguard' systems etc... without it being an actual incursion with the same pay scale if not more then normal nullsec incursions. This would provide members of the alliance a great source of income that emphasizes group play which is what alliances, corporations, and sov holding are all about. They can make more money than they could in hisec, if a small pvp gang presents itself people will already be formed as a group and would be far more likely to engage (And game mechanics such as no more sites spawn or no payouts with more than x uncloaked neutrals or hostiles in system). People had previously mentioned targets for small gangs? Perhaps the structure that enables these to be spawned can get disabled with a 1 hour cool down before it can get repped or something which would give groups running said anomalies a huge incentive to engage.

This is what I think will pull people from hi sec incursions into 0.0 ratting. The problem I have with 0.0 incursions is that they aren't consistent and have a huge 'come fuck with me sign' on them. Making isk is 0.0 is pretty much a solo effort and is boring. Some sort of scan-able anom/plex that needed a small fleet to run it would be perfect. There is still risk because you can go hunting these people the same way ratters are hunted now.

[tgr]

Rather then nerf something a relatively small part of the playerbase is participating in (although the isk coming from it is obviously disproportionate), I think the best course of action would be if CCP tried to please everyone by leaving hi-sec incursions as a high source of income for those willing to get organized and shell out the initial isk investment for it, but to also implement a similar nullsec option. Yes, there are already nullsec incursions, but they really aren't comparable to the hi-sec option.

The problem with not touching hisec incursions at all (like, say, making bounties expire when the mothership pops up to essentially force them into killing off the mothership when CCP has decided it was time for the incursion to end), is that unless the nullsec option is vastly more profitable, chances are you won't see much effect of the introduction. Some, yes, but not nearly enough.

And if you make the nullsec vastly more profitable through pure isk rewards, you worsen the inflation problem further.

[poaw]

And if you make the nullsec vastly more profitable through pure isk rewards, you worsen the inflation problem further.

Maybe they could be convinced to accept that as part of the "solution" to balancing 0.0 rewards against what's available in empire. Essentially just opening the floodgates and dumping enough ISK into the economy to destroy the actual value of L4 missions (even if most of the profit for the mission runner comes from the LP) and highsec incursions. Most mission runners wouldn't notice the change which would stave off most of the mass protesting and general unhappiness which would come from a straight nerf.

Then again, maybe if they just keep continuously hammering bots and pressing the "Delete" key on the major RMT operation's assets it'll be enough to bring the inflation out of control.

[ISnipeAllDay]

The problem with not touching hisec incursions at all (like, say, making bounties expire when the mothership pops up to essentially force them into killing off the mothership when CCP has decided it was time for the incursion to end), is that unless the nullsec option is vastly more profitable, chances are you won't see much effect of the introduction. Some, yes, but not nearly enough.

And if you make the nullsec vastly more profitable through pure isk rewards, you worsen the inflation problem further.

Well here's how I view it: Inflation is basically inevitable considering the amount of isk that comes in and the amount that essentially disappears or goes inactive, the only thing effected will be the rate of inflation. The rate of inflation will be much higher with the introduction of such a system, but at the same time we are going to see more money spent and lost since it is originating in nullsec. We've seen it already, that ships and modules will increase in price but at the same time they haven't and generally will not increase on the same scale as the inflation. They may go up in price but the income is still greater than the prices increases which makes said items ultimately easier to obtain. A larger market for items previously considered higher end will definitely be a result of this change.

Albeit few, in the nullsec alliances I've been a member of it isn't uncommon to hear complaints of people who are low on money. Even losing a hurricane can put a dent in some of these guys wallets. So a system like what I suggested gets implemented, now we see a the average nullsec player with a much larger income. They're now able to buy the expensive toys to PVP with that previously would have cleaned out their wallets but now they run anomalies for half the time they previously would have but still have money left over. Battlecruisers and battleships will become the cheap disposable learning tools they are essentially meant to be. Basically I think it will result in a much more willing PVP base that actually ventures out on their own rather than relying on alliance ship replacement plans. At the same time this will increase overall ship losses and basically make more money disappear due to destroyed items and ships. As people get used to this and more confident we will see them bringing out the pimp-mobiles I mentioned earlier which will result in even larger sums of isk being removed from the game.

So basically, yes, there will be large scale inflation, but what I foresee is that at the same time there will be a bigger draw to nullsec, a nullsec userbase more willing to PVP outside the normal realm of blob warfare, and basically more people in general having a good time via the PVP outlet provided to them. The main people effected by the inflation will be those sitting on old piles of money and traders who couldn't keep up with the times.

Of course I'm probably being too optimistic but I still feel the pros outweigh the cons in the current state of EVE.

[tgr]

FYI, just the fact that ships are going poof, doesn't mean isk is actually disappearing out the game. In fact, more isk is appearing in the game for each popped ship.

[jimmychrist]

Watching Il Dottore's presentation I literally shouted into the screen as that aspie from the crowd stuttered a question about ships and somethingsomethingmumblemumble for someone to please for the love of god mention insurance as an isk faucet that maybe should be adjusted but no one did.

(Look ma! No comma!)

[Della Monk]

I'm not very good at econ, but isn't insurance a good isk faucet? Since it like, encourages people to go fly around in space by offsetting the monetary risk of such activities.

[Warband]

An important note to make here is that you don't want to make the average 0.0 pvper too wealthy. The real rush of eve pvp is knowing you're about to loose the ships which you spent time and effort on, if that idea is diluted too much I think it takes away from pvp.

[Della Monk]

Meaningful loss doesn't have to mean 'oh god if I fly the ships needed to make money I'm gonna be poor'

[Mfume]

yeah, poverty doesnt make the pvp more meaningful, just more painful.

[goldnut sachs]

what am i hurting the economy with my measly, barely 20m minimum wage anom ticks, and that's with a machariel
also does anyone knows why 99% of the time hisec has at least one active incursion while you may have to wait 2 days for another lowsec to pop up?

[Mfume]

if you're only clearing 60M an hour running anoms in a macherial, you're doing something wrong.

also: a lot of lowsec groups come in and crush the incursion as fast as possible so they can resume moving caps.

[Lorren Canada]

Ya'know, malapoopism sounds like some alternative rock festival

[Combat Scrub]

Wow. I made a comment in a different thread, and someone made it an OP. Take a week off and all sorts of things happen.

Anyway, my issue with HiSec incursions mirrors Grath's (and others) - they spawn frequently and are farmed excessively. If CCP reduced the frequency of HiSec incursions and set limit on how many Vanguards can be farmed once the MS spawns to limit the farming of a single incursion, this would be a fairly small but significant change to the incursion running community, which (lets be honest here) includes a large number of null sec folks looking for quick, easy, safe ISK. CCP should be looking for ways to get people back into nullsec (and into losec) and reducing the overall ISK flow from incursions in HiSec would be a piece of that puzzle. Sure, the true hisec carebears won't leave hisec. But nullsec players who are farming incursions in HiSec might be more inclined to go back to null if they could earn decent ISK/hr again with an equivalent risk or a balanced reward.

[Manfred Hideous]

My friend, incursion isk is outnumbered 4:1 by bounty isk.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default...833#post926833

soundwave kinda breaks it down in that thread.

I ran my first anom in Providence when I resubbed last night, mostly out of WTF the belts are ratted out.

I WTZ on a forlorn hub and land in the middle of a what the fuck? Half a dozen BS and supporting BCs. I almost let myself get melted in my shock. Once I recovered, I went back and decided I like the new anoms.

Did they buff sanctums and Havens in the good space?

[Grath]

Did they buff sanctums and Havens in the good space?

They buffed all anoms a while ago, increasing the number of bc's and bs in some so that it had a higher overall payout, while at the same time buffing some of the lesser anoms to acutally have bs/bc's. Forsaken Hubs are evidently the money maker now, its all BS/BC's and you can rape one in about 4 minutes with a titan.

[Manfred Hideous]

They buffed all anoms a while ago, increasing the number of bc's and bs in some so that it had a higher overall payout, while at the same time buffing some of the lesser anoms to acutally have bs/bc's. Forsaken Hubs are evidently the money maker now, its all BS/BC's and you can rape one in about 4 minutes with a titan.

I'm not a terribly good missioner (well, ISK maker in general) and I prefer being where there might be possible fights, so knowing I can live in Providence with the same approximate ISK as level 4 missions makes me happy.

Then again, Provi seemed dead as hell last night. Is it worth being there for small scraps anymore or did I decide to resub on a slow day?

[Grath]

AFAIK you must have been around while it was slow, because they have a ton of roaming gangs coming through usually.