Name GoonSwarm
Ticker OHGOD
Members 5589
Corporations 105
Founded 2006-06-03
Goonswarm
Name GoonSwarm
Ticker OHGOD
Members 5589
Corporations 105
Founded 2006-06-03
Via Twitter TheMittani It's official: I'm going to be giving a lecture on espionage metagaming at GDC 2010 in San Fran come March. Kind of stunned.
He shouldn't be, it's an interesting angle and usually they have to corner speakers for those things.Originally Posted by xutech
[B]Client:[/B] “Well we are well known amongst all the Russian billionaires so there is great potential for you to get your name out there by doing this project for free. Also I am a direct descendant of Genghis Khan.”
As MMOs go, EVE's got the espionage market cornered. Very interesting examples of emergent behaviour in games, even if some of it goes way overboard.
I am sure the attendees at GDC 2010 will be enthralled when he mentions his most famous event was the disbanding of BoB. Then it will get a bit weird when he mentions that a person in BoB actually was the button pusher and he happened to be at the right place at the right time. Metagaming brought to a whole new level...lol
edit: The last two posts I have made here weren't even remotely negative, so I am sure this one will be deleted as well
Little by little, one goes a long way
Formerly the artist known as Serj, Ykatni, Acobar, Intravenous deMilo and about fifty other mains/alts the last few years.
No more character sales when I ragequit, seriously....
Any marketing is good for Eve imo, even with Mittens involved.
Little by little, one goes a long way
Formerly the artist known as Serj, Ykatni, Acobar, Intravenous deMilo and about fifty other mains/alts the last few years.
No more character sales when I ragequit, seriously....
I am sorry that your posts were deleted but they did not meet the high quality standards of the forum which mandate that posts should contribute to the discussion in some matter whether it be asking a legitimate question, providing more information or contributing to a serious discussion. This was all outlined in this subforum's specific rules thread and although that thread might be months old it still applies to the forum. They were not deleted for being pro or anti Goonswarm as both points of view are allowed.
As for Mittani's latest free vacation, I won't be watching it because he has not had anything to say in almost a year now and the only reason that time-period is so short is due to the Haargoth thing falling into his lap. I understand that the reason he was so vocal back in the SU8A and Scalding Pass days was because his stuff was required to boost morale, but you can't just coast for two or three years while saying nothing and expect to be taken seriously.
Badges of Honor: Three probations, one reversed.
Uniquely Ruthless: The Espionage Metagame of EVE Online
Speaker: Alexander Gianturco (Consultant, Independent Consultant)
Date/Time: TBD
Track: Game Design
Format: 60-minute Lecture
Experience Level: All
Session Description
On February 4, 2009, arguably the most destructive act of player-on-player espionage in gaming history occurred: the disbanding and subsequent annihilation of the Band of Brothers alliance in EVE Online. This lecture, given by the spymaster behind this operation and many others, will analyze the key attributes of MMO design that encourage a vibrant espionage and counterintelligence metagame, as well as the technology, methods and dirty secrets of the spy game itself. Topics covered will include the history of espionage metagames, war stories and examples of heists, sabotage, and spycatching, the impact of Real Money Trading, and a discussion of financial fraud and scamming. There will be a Q&A session at the end of the session.
Intended Audience
Anyone with an existing interest in the espionage metagame, anyone with an interest in EVE Online, or anyone looking for an introduction to espionage gameplay. There will be a number of 'war stories' used as examples to illustrate the necessary design requirements which will be of general interest to anyone with a love of spies.
I need to get passes to this one to ask informed questions as a participant
Little by little, one goes a long way
Formerly the artist known as Serj, Ykatni, Acobar, Intravenous deMilo and about fifty other mains/alts the last few years.
No more character sales when I ragequit, seriously....
The Mittani better informs the security to keep you out of the building.I need to get passes to this one to ask informed questions as a participant
and I got the feeling these posts might get deleted. SDF rules and all..
~~~~GIMMIE +REP+ GIMMIE~~~~
I already found two people going, so I will bribe them to ask informed questions
Little by little, one goes a long way
Formerly the artist known as Serj, Ykatni, Acobar, Intravenous deMilo and about fifty other mains/alts the last few years.
No more character sales when I ragequit, seriously....
Re-name the thread or close it?
I wat thinking to rename it, then I realised its full of crap. I'll turdhouse and we can make a new one when he actually gives the lecture.
~~~~GIMMIE +REP+ GIMMIE~~~~
re
Maybe he can talk about how exceptional GIA's counterintelligence program was, now that everyone knows Kartoon wasn't even a goon and just took over an account.
The death of GS > death of BoB.
I love how everyone pretends that killing BoB was a metagaming victory. It was a cultural victory, but I suppose half of the population of earth can barely tie their shoes in the morning so I shouldn't expect them to understand the difference.
The idea that I have "free will" is the only irrational belief that I allow myself.
If I am wrong, I had no choice in the matter.
The problem with that is that a single defector is difficult to classify as a "cultural victory". You could argue that the sov bill/karttoon failure chain was a "cultural defeat" for goons.
Considering that there's a ton of differing definitions of "metagaming", and most use the term without having any kind of definition at all (some go for "stuff in EVE I don't like"), it's quite difficult to argue whether something is or is not "metagaming".
The term "metagaming" has a very simple definition.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The sov-bill / kartoon fiasco was not a cultural defeat, because a cultural defeat would be defined as "a loss of military or political power based on the fundamental flaws or weaknesses of that group's culture".
The collapse was simply a nexus of personal problems combined with more than one burnt out player in a position of prime importance.
If the Goons had lost space due to loss of morale, if they had taken on the qualities of their enemies and had decided to fail-cascade due to lack of cohesion and had fallen to squabbling and mass emmigration to other alliances, that would be a cultural defeat.
There are plenty of those to study in Eve within the last 3 months.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sorry, I didn't express myself clearly there - I guess you can get most people to agree with the first part of the definition on the wikipedia page, which talks about "stuff that is not part of the game". But that does not solve the problem I tried to point to, it only moves the debate - what is "part of the game" in EVE? Spying is, so it's not meta-gaming, etc. etc. - the discussions aren't about the actual question ("this tactic should be forbidden in this game"), but about whether something is or is not included in the meaning of a word.
The shortened version of that article is easily misunderstandable, IMHO - you could easily think that using TS to coordinate PvP is "metagaming" based on that.
Using TS to coordinate PvP is metagaming.
So I take it you fall into the section of the earth's population that still wears Velcro shoes?
The idea that I have "free will" is the only irrational belief that I allow myself.
If I am wrong, I had no choice in the matter.
Thats really the only event that can be properly decribed as a "cultural defeat", assuming it is a takeoff of the "cultural victory" meme, which is a take on one of the Civilization series' victory types.
My family used to do this because we had a cat who ate shoelaces, and it was less of a bother to just wear Velcro.
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