Failure Cascade discussion
No it doesn't. You don't put in any kind of context that we could argue upon. You are oversimplifying, and that's not by any means a way to be accurate.Originally Posted by Alex Clomsaver
Penumbra was both a member of AGGRO and Atropos and is now with us in RAGE.
Arkons of Myth were a member or IRON (cascade), then joined AGGRO. (cascade), then joined KIA (cascade)
I could list corps all day, but I'm pretty sure what I'm trying to point is obvious.
KIA wasn't a cascade, idiot.
Badges of Honor: Three probations, one reversed.
Come to think of it, I don't think that AGGRO was one either, although it was a cascade waiting to happen.
Badges of Honor: Three probations, one reversed.
Right, call it whatever you want buddy. My point stands.
Alex, you are being outmatched, quit it :P
What? A failure cascade is when an alliance is unable to protect its players interests so individual players start leaving which then forces individual corps to step out turning the alliance into a shell with just the executor corp and a few stragglers left behind. Atropos. and KIA both kicked their corps out, they didn't leave voluntarily.
You are all a bunch of fucking retards who don't have a damn clue what the words coming out of your mouths actually mean.
Badges of Honor: Three probations, one reversed.
I thought "failure cascade" meant that mittani was controlling your mind.
i think they're running with the notion that any alliance death is a failure cascade.
KIA and AGGRO are in fact just about the exact opposites of fail cascades: both fell quickly, with no buildup, and without any actual external pressure on them
EDIT: welcome to not caod. people will call you on bullshit here. o/
And I meant Aggression., not KIA. Sorry, got my worthless and shitty dot alliances confused for a second.
Badges of Honor: Three probations, one reversed.
I love you
edit : no i really do
oh yea and some bullshit game term which is even used loosely by the same person who came up with it, is so radical to define or keep its definition clear, that we gotta leave our actual discussion and arguments aside to deal with it. That has the least to do with what we were discussing.
RRiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitteeeeeeeeeeee.
Did it again, I meant Aggro, not ATROPOS..
And yes, the term is important. I bitch about you misusing it the same way I would if you said the sky was green and got mad when I pointed out your incorrectness (blue and green are basically the same thing, asshole.)
When Mittani invented the term he was extremely clear on his definition of it and still is. Just because some of us are clueless idiots doesn't mean we have to settle for improper terms, does it cement-for-brains?
Badges of Honor: Three probations, one reversed.
can we rant on something else now? i'm bored ...
humm, lets see...
failure: No success, Not do, Stop.
cascade: to fall quickly and in large amounts.
So actually, what the hell mittens says i care not, alright he invented the fucking word alltogether, but just look at the fucking dictionary.
So Atropos? FAILURE CASCADE!
So Agression? FAILURE CASCADE!
So KIA? Well, i wouldn't call this an failure cascade, but between the lines it is a FAILURE CASCADE.
I said drop it.
You wouldn't want your doctor mixing up your Vena Cava and Vas Deferens. Terms are important. The use of terms equally so.
I'm one of those that goes for prior art because I recall it being used before Mittens started, but it's such a loose piece of evidence that you don't have to take any notice. <shrug>
Still, brief girly handbag fight was amusing. Top marks for all involved.
Alex, you seem kinda wound up recently. Does someone need a hug?
The actual (as in nonEve) definition is when a minor failure causes other failures which causes the whole system to fail. In that form then of the two Aggro would be the only failure cascade. (well, KIA too but I take issue with that being a failure- I see it more similarly to the forfeiting of the deep south by BoB/disbanding of KenZoku, or in other words as drastic measures done with a plan to save the organization by putting it into temporary hibernation/abandoning space.)
And yeah I'm pissed, has nothing to do with eve though.
Badges of Honor: Three probations, one reversed.
Important terms are important. Spaceship game terms are not.You wouldn't want your doctor mixing up your Vena Cava and Vas Deferens. Terms are important. The use of terms equally so.
On another level, your important is probably different to my important, in some cases they could match, in others not.
So importance or value, is extremely subjective.
Personally i find it completely unimportant and something some dood who plays a spaceship game came out with and thus, i really don't give a damn if i'm not using it exactly as that dood ment to be using it.
Hurf hurf...
/hug
Itt alex sanity slowly failure cascades
see, that's how you fucking use that term.Itt alex sanity slowly failure cascades
hahaha
He is alright now, he deviated that frustation from giving bad rep.Itt alex sanity slowly failure cascades
and taking my nice title off.
I didn't remove your title. It switched back to the default when you moved up a posting group.
Badges of Honor: Three probations, one reversed.
Don't mix up your HAC and HIC on an op, then. Also the amount of energy you're spending on the subject makes a fibber out of you.
Fair enough. Just be aware that we're laughing at, not with.
Posting in a forum requires big amounts of energy?
Failure cascade is not a core game term. It's something a dude who plays this game (Mittani) came up with and then taken by the community and used in a very loose way. That's always what happens with slang-ish terms. They fit to what they are to represent by a whole group of people and not by their creator. Anyway, I'm pretty sure you care more than he does.
And yea, I don't get offended on ze internetz, so don't bother
You should get out more and consider the wisdom of believing someone calling themselves a 'Spymaster'.
I'd thought I'd already posted on this subject, but we were using the term 'cascade failure' in 1998 referring to the critical failure of components or services in the then subverted 'net' topology of the original DARPA network to the cheaper to maintain 'star' topology that enhanced the failure mode of various things within the paradigm of reliant services/functions/components. I believe the original usage of the 'cascade' came from discussions of criticality during the Manhattan project and later examination of chaos (cf 'butterfly effect') in blast wave detonations during the modelling of high-explosive collapse of spheres of enriched plutonium to achieve criticality. I dimly seem to recall James Gleick writing something about it in 'Chaos', which is a book I heartily recommend.
My prior art to Mittens claim was recalling seeing the term 'fail cascade' used with regard to Fix, but you could also try using this new-fangled thing called 'Google' to check up if you so desired.
Even with regard to the above, there is a specific imagery used with the concept, which is a series of failures that follow one from another in a 'snowballing' fashion to produce a final effect. Generally, though, my own personal objection was towards using terms that you didn't have a fucking clue about.
BTW, I think you'd have a hell of time defining some things as 'core game terms' beyond those in the tutorials, but we all know what an 'armo[u]r tank' is, and it's not really that subjective.
Anyway, the last word is yours, I've drifted this too far.
I'm just making distinctions that you don't. And I'm not implying that your line of arguments isn't solid. Probably more solid than mine. Or maybe more complex. Personally, when an important game figure takes a non-game term, imports it into the game, then the community takes that term and as you state, while I would hate to be described as member of the community, with having no clue about it abuses its meaning, that term isn't what it may referred to out of game, and its more relevant to use it in the manner its used by the community. The mob rules.
I also took your advice and googled it. Urban dictionary gave me this :
1. failure cascade
The inevitable demise of a group due to a growing amount of errors. EVE Online coporations use this term to describe other corporations as they come to an end.
I've read my fair bit on both order and chaos. Chaos got much love in the 60s, when a good amount of scientists experienced the "WOOWWW" effect through the overuse of psychedelics, and as scientists generally do when they like a theory, they took it too far.
And drugs from being a medium, they became a wall that blocked the road. Since even the last of the animistic traditions know that any psychedelic when overused, when out of context and not at a certain dosology destroys and doesn't broaden consciousness.
While if you went and talked to the last yogi or buddhist, he would tell you that he experienced the exact same "universe" with methods that are more than 5000 years old and don't need any mediums other than yourself. It just takes more time and practice.
But now I am the one who is drifting it too far.
So I have to admit I stopped reading this thread, and now it just looks like a bunch of internet nerds copy/pasting from wikipedia.
Hmmm, what to do with this thread...
You can split it and put the hurf down in GD if you like but remember, this is a no rules forum!
Badges of Honor: Three probations, one reversed.
The main problem is this thread is just so bad I don't want to go back and read it all.
The proper term for that is "implosion".
ie: failure from within.
Failcascades happen due to external forces, or, as has been said, by a long drawn out series of events.
Although, in the case of KIA, I think it was more of Eddz deciding on a mercy killing rather than waiting for the cascade to do it for them.
I'm pretty sure people are attempting to show what a failure cascade is by posting so badly the entire thread cascades into failure.
Mission accomplished
I divided the thread again, the pyschobabble is down in iPest (http://kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?t=4988) if you can't find it and the reputation talk is in this forum, though really it would probably have fit better in GD.
Badges of Honor: Three probations, one reversed.
This thread was an awesome read! loads of lol's!
I tend to agree with alex's last post, a failure cascade, must be a string of small failures... there by causing the cascade of failures...
EDIT: im a noob and only read first page, then replied, page 2 took it down a notch!
I'm not sure you can have an alliance who failcascades due to internal presures aswell. Follows the same principle just the tension is caused by something else. lack of collective image, drastic change in internal policy etc..
Imho this is what a failcascade is.
for sheer lulz, can anyone come up with a list of cascaded alliances?
IRON, KOS, IAC, KA-TET, HYDRA, PURE, RK/Smash?
my memory seems to fail on me, stupid perc/will respec.
IAC didn't really failcascade, it's death was a foregone conclusion due to being surrounded by "Ze Russians" and having shitty allies like CVA (CVA fights with all the courage of "brave brave Sir Robin") and goons. The evac there was more like getting out of the way of the oncoming train.
This was definitely a case where the goons sold out an ally, their reset gave AAA the green light to take JZV. Why, I don't know, because Goons definitely gained nothing from it, as we saw months later when AAA reset them and joined the GBC.
IRC, on the other hand, was a classic, but very VERY rapid failcascade, probably the fastest in the history of 0.0, within 36 hours of their home constellation getting hit, you had most of the corps leave, most of the members flee, and the infamous "Oldma fit" black ops BPO loss incident.
IAC died with tyrrax leaving.
I could write up a long post why your wrong on so many lvl Yorda.
But I am not gonna. Its easier on the both of us.
A failure cascade is the disintegration of an alliance caused by collective helplessness in the face of sustained and unrationalizable adversity through a process of pilot attribution shifting from the alliance to the corporation or the individual.
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/71300
oh come on, 2 months old, gravedigger!
I've been gone for three months, I'm catching up on lost posting.
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