Ransomlist's Autocannon Rokh Thread
Its sole and ignoble purpose is killing active tanking missionrunners. You have enough buffer to last long enough to nuet them dry and ~650 DPS deal with the brittle passive tank without breaking a sweat. Pick the right damage type if possible, invulns are in there because i am lazy but feel free to put specific resists up instead.
Want to fly that Sleipnir in your AHAC gang? Well now you can!
i wont be held responsible
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
RansomList your rokh fit has 6 guns, and your armor sleipnir is an armor sleipnir.Originally Posted by xutech
RansomList the rokh has 8 turret hardpoints (source: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/i...?type_id=24688 )quote sources
and your armor sleipnir is an armor sleipnir (source: http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread...l=1#post205716 )
RansomList, this one time I have never caught a mission runner in my afterburner rokh. This other one time, your armor sleipnir is an armor sleipnir.refer to anecdotal experiences
refer to statistical differences
v
:
ITT, Mr. Coloredshirt owning bitches.RansomList your rokh fit has 6 guns, and your armor sleipnir is an armor sleipnir.
RansomList the rokh has 8 turret hardpoints (source: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/i...?type_id=24688 )
and your armor sleipnir is an armor sleipnir (source: http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread...l=1#post205716 )
RansomList, this one time I have never caught a mission runner in my afterburner rokh. This other one time, your armor sleipnir is an armor sleipnir.
v
Helios Black - Origin. - Black Legion.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
~Heh~ I didn't read all of op did i!
Lets be frank, there are no NEW ship fittings anymore. All thats left is the minutiae for sperglords to argue over and the more unusual or niche fits that people rarely use. The two i posted are such, although the last is more me throwing an idea out for criticism to see if its feasible and I'll admit a little bit me taking the piss.
Rokh:
It has 8 turret slots but as a general rule, when aiming to gank active tanking missionrunners you need to carry two Heavy neuts; because you need to get them past peak cap recharge fast, because active tanking and neuting setups need C type armour reps/shiel boosters in order to be effective and I'm always in favor of keeping things cheap and so you cant leave them too long to get through your buffer and need them neuted fast. Some faction/deadspace fit MR's can almost survive a single heavy neut and depending on fit and skills you might be forced to leave or corpmates might have time to rescue them before you break thier tank. 600DPS is enough for killing a missionrunner befor ethey chew through your buffer if they are active tanking and you have them neuted, on that note, you could fit torps but then you cant go after CS/T3 as well as you can with 800mm's (dont talk to me about tracking, i assume anyone that can fit tech 2 large guns isn't so derp that they understand they need to control engagement range to maximize the hit chance/quality).
AB is in there due to lower cap consumption (because you cant really afford to lose another Mid to run a cap booster and MWD will mean you dont have enough juice to run the heavy neuts for long enough) and the fact that if you are going after a commandship or t3 they are faster than you without prop mods. Often you cant guarantee the MR wont have moved slightly before you land on them, unless you dual box a covops in the mission with them and so a prop mod is necessary to keep them in point range. Overheat until you close to ~5km, then run normally or pulse as needed or run it to bump them if you see them drop ECM drones as some people carry a set during wardecs.
On an aside, Bhaalgorns are the absolute bomb for this, even with restrictive damage types, because you can be confident of keeping someone so dry they cant activate hardeners at all. Just dont try and kill those rare full passive Rattlesnakes that can survive at 0 cap indefinitely. Cheaper alternatives are some nailbiting C type sleip fits that rely on a sole medium neuts and lots of micromanagement of cap to slowly bleed someone and Neuting Typoons that need decent skills in far more weapons systems than the AC Rokh i posted. Single Neut Maelstrom can work, but again, C type Rep and you had better hope he doesn't have friends nearby that bring points because you are something of a pinata yourself at this point. If you want to dualbox, use a pilgrim for warpin, TD and neuting and a Deimos or gank proteus for DPS but multi accounting just to kill MR's is daft unless you have picked out that one idiot in his officer fit Paladin and you are expecting a payday; because i am a cheapskate i think its better to scan them down with an alt in a covops, BM them and then switch to another character on the same account or to join the corp of someone in a tasty faction fit ship and fleet with them.
And then we have the low skilled newish level 4 missioner that you can just curb stomp with 1000DPS Maelstoms/Typoons/Megathrons because they cant tank you, but really whats the point in bothering. Better to go after the older bears with faction and officer fits, for which you need neuting setups and whom you are hoping to get nice mod drops from.
Sleip:
Without Snakes its slower than an AB Hac and its sig is too high, with a Halo set its sig is still too high and its too slow, with slaves its sig is too high and its slow. In either cases it has more tank than an AB HAC and does more or equal DPS to a lot of fits.
Other downsides are cost, sticking out and hence being a target and the fact other ships and fits are just better for that purpose.
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
It actually has way worse dps and range than a zealot.
I won't go into too much about the rokh since it's objective is apparently to kill carebears, and more often enough you can find a mission runner that can be slain by a wet towel. But to sum up the greatest problems with it, for such big guns (that will have big issues tracking a T3) you have piss poor dps, and you have no range control. Your AB does nothing, 300m/s is no different from 100m/s, even more so if you can't web or scram down your opponent. You can probably kill ravens and domis; marauders you run the risk of either getting out-dps'd or out-tanked if they have cap boosters; t3 will outtrack and outrun you; command ships will outtank, outtrack and outrun you.
A bagglehorn is probably what you're looking for, or a domi. A domi has about the same anemic dps as your rokh but better tank, better range keeping, more versatile dps, more neuting power and if you want you can even fit a salvager ii without breaking the fit too badly!
editI lied I did apparently go into the rokh too much
editOh god you added all bunch of text jesus
editWell fuck that I'm not commenting on all of that but really you have no way to keep them from moving and you go 300m/s how the fuck are you supposed to keep down transversal even with the ancient secrets that come with t2 large guns.
A surprising number of T3/CS MR's dont bother fitting any kind of prop mod; I've only gone after one MR before that wasn't caldari t3/CS though so afaik the situation might be very different for the other racial t3 MR's. With an overheated AB a Rokh is faster than most of them and the same applies to CS. If they do have a prop mod, you overheat your AB and Point and neut the fuck out of them, they cant run the prop mod and you have range control again. Dont forget you aren't going to be landing right on top of them- most people will immediately try and warp off the moment you appear/point them and then try and outrun your point which usually means bugger all transversal, the afterburner means they pop before they can escape, or that you neut them out and can dictate range with it. The smart ones will IMMEDIATELY try and get under your guns and will try and pop drones as soon as they are pointed.I won't go into too much about the rokh since it's objective is apparently to kill carebears, and more often enough you can find a mission runner that can be slain by a wet towel. But to sum up the greatest problems with it, for such big guns (that will have big issues tracking a T3) you have piss poor dps, and you have no range control. Your AB does nothing, 300m/s is no different from 100m/s, even more so if you can't web or scram down your opponent. You can probably kill ravens and domis; marauders you run the risk of either getting out-dps'd or out-tanked if they have cap boosters; t3 will outtrack and outrun you; command ships will outtank, outtrack and outrun you.
As you said, Most missionrunenrs can be killed by a wet paper towel. The Rokh above works against them- its also works against the kind that are worth killing in hope of getting a faction mod drop. Just to be clear, if i was going after a specific T3 or CS i'd go with curse/Pilgrim if they were turret based and a Sleip if they were using missiles (i think its easier to micromanaged reps between missile volleys with shield reps than armour) and plan on draining them slowly with a buffer/active tank or pure active in case of the sleip.
At the end of the day we may have to agree to disagree, its a very niche ship. But as i said earlier, posting 'Buffer Drake clone fit N+1' or 'ABHAC Zealot' again is pointless
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
This gentlemen, is a post.
Point of order why are you using a Rokh to begin with?
Kind of what i was wondering, i mean surely almost any other ship would do the job better?
Also, that fit puts out 650 dps with 144kEHP and reasonable resists and carries two heavy neuts. You cant do the same with a Maelstrom/Tempest/Typhoon unless you have considerably more skills to 5 and one of the problems with targeting high value missionrunners is having to recycle or sell characters one they get a rep/ are on too many watch lists. There are also FAR more characters up for sale that have Caldari BS trained than Minmatar BS 5.Lets be frank, there are no NEW ship fittings anymore. All thats left is the minutiae for sperglords to argue over and the more unusual or niche fits that people rarely use. The two i posted are such,
Why not blasters? Fixe damage type. WHy not torps? Not as good as Proj against anything but a webbed target painted BS or one that has a massive sig
Projectiles are the ideal weapon type for this kind of short term cap intensive purpose; easier to fit than missiles and dont have the same sig radius problems (we have touched on tracking, nothing more needs to be said) while retaining the ability to pick the best damage type.
You can get more damage out of Dual Neut Typhoons/Maels/Tempests IF you have BS 5 and Large Drone 5, but if you dont the DPS increase isn't enough to justify dropping the 40k ehp extra you get with a Rokh. With BS 4 in both races the matchup is less in favor of Minmatar- the primary concern here is tank and hitting that 600dps sweetspot that is easy to ft for but gives you enough damage to kill them in a reasonable time.
If CCP gave me a BS with a 5% shield resist bonus and 5% proj damage boni I'd almost forgive them the myriad dumb decisions in slot layout that plague the Minmatar lineup masquerading as some perverse notion of flexibility that becomes jack of all trades, other races better at the specifics due to better slot layouts.
Personally, i can fit a Mael out that is functionally better than the Rohk in every way but a slight advantage in tank thats close enough i can close the gap with implants but i decided to post a niche Rokh fit I've used that hasnt got quite so tough skill req's to work and which anyone with Caldari BS 4 can fly just by crosstraining large proj.
This is now MY thread
Now go forth and field an Autocannon Rokh fleet with Basilisk/Scimi support and crush the Drake beneath your bootheel!
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
wont they get shat on by drakes due to a massive sig radius?
cool idea though
You talking about the C-type Sleip suggestion?
HML drake has a pretty hard cap on its damage output, its not difficult to tank, especially with the Drake fits missionrunners use
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
lol 2 neuts will not even keep a CNR dry unless they are totally, horribly retarded.
Horrible idea.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mr Coloredshirt again.
edit: to add some content, i was not even finding shit was totally capping out with 3 neuts - not in a reasonable time anyways. i would always end up flying a domi with 3 heavies and 2 mediums.
To deal with my 1.5mill SP domi alt's piss poor dps i would wait until my target had aggro from a hard room and then slap the neuts on.
Here is a badly fit pimp CNR. It should perma tank 700dps + at 40% cap. Add two Heavy Neuts and its capped out in 1 min 48, from 100% cap to 0%. In reality, he will be at or near 40% cap and already taking damage from NPC's.edit: to add some content, i was not even finding shit was totally capping out with 3 neuts - not in a reasonable time anyways. i would always end up flying a domi with 3 heavies and 2 mediums.
To deal with my 1.5mill SP domi alt's piss poor dps i would wait until my target had aggro from a hard room and then slap the neuts on.
What the hell were you trying to kill that you couldn't cap it out with 3 H. neuts and 2 mediums?!
I assume with the Domi at 1.5 M sp you were relying solely on drones for DPS and not much at that. If you were trying to kill a passive shield tanked MR they might have been able to tank you on passive regen alone...
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
Not if they have a mission's aggro on them too. My experience comes from fighting both CNRs and Golems. With the 1.5m sp domi pilot i killed 1 CNR, 1 Golem, and i lost against a 2nd CNR because i hadn't waited for a tough room, which was a mistake - I saw his shields dipping down to 40% and assumed he was having trouble when in reality he was just waiting to cycle his XL booster. Pretty dumb but there you go.
When i was fighting both the first CNR and the Golem I still had only the 3 heavy neuts, without the extra 2 mediums. Both ships were cycling their boosters (X-larges) intermittently even though my neuts were staggered. They didnt boost enough to survive obviously but had they smartied my drones or killed the dps rats in the missions i couldve been in trouble.
I was pretty pleased seeing as it was about 2-3 weeks of training with the double training time bonus you got back then. Probably made about 3bill in loot.
nah the rohk
i misread and thought they had mwd instead of afterburner
This isn't really true, and its the minute fitting changes that can take an average fit and make it something amazing that wasn't seen before.
The first time somebody said "dual prop" i laughed, now, my Cynabals are constantly dual prop and its amazing.
One of the Goons asked why you are using a Rokh. My favorite ship right now is the blaster active tanked cyno rokh. 7 Neutrons, xl booster, cap injector, mwd, invuln, point, scram, 3x magstabs, DCU (and i may be missing a low slot, you'd have to look at my loss mail for me to remember the exact fit), but basically, you roll around in range of your super with this friggin Rokh that everybody wants a piece of cause your a solo Rokh.
The awesome thing is that you can easily tank a small gang with some blue pill, and they bite hard on the bait as you start laying into dudes with the blasters (they actually work right on a Rokh and have decent range). Killing one or two in the Rokh will have the small gang fully commit to the fight, often times with vaga's coming in to bump you off a gate. At that point its, scram the bump ship, point something expensive, cyno up.
EDIT: I was going to dig you up some killmails until I realized I'd have to sift through 2000 dead drakes from last months kills to find where i was using that rokh.
Ransom's case in point: Active tanked Rokh is nothing new, and a cyno with the super in range is hardly revolutionary or even evolutionary. Armor Hacs are evolutionary, Dual prop, Sniper BS (Left behind due to evolution). But an active tanked Rokh with a cyno to kill a shiny? Not knocking the fit, but just agreeing with Ransomlist that there really isn't anything revolutionary as a 'New Fit!'. Just new fleet doctrines brought about due to Scanning changes and Super-caps (namely insane buffers and no AOE DD).
[Arrador] possesses a considerable understanding of ship configurations, strengths and weakness. He gives clear and purposeful instructions, is good at taking advantage of the fleet-composition he's dealt, and never loses sight of the main goal: fun. This, paired with an excellent tolerance for strong drink gives him an almost Churchillian capability to win, despite being completely pissed on booze most of the fleet operation.
Now, if CCP increases the powergrid of the Rokh to abaddon/maelstrom levels, do something drastic like 10% bonus range to all turret weapons, then we could leave the maelstrom behind.
[Arrador] possesses a considerable understanding of ship configurations, strengths and weakness. He gives clear and purposeful instructions, is good at taking advantage of the fleet-composition he's dealt, and never loses sight of the main goal: fun. This, paired with an excellent tolerance for strong drink gives him an almost Churchillian capability to win, despite being completely pissed on booze most of the fleet operation.
Try a dominix, friend.
blue pill rokh w/ 2 invulns is only 1000dps overheated and cap whore if you run with point and prop. Mind posting the fit?
On a related topic, t2 blaster ammo is looking nice on range bonused hulls that can fit neutrons now they reduced some of the penalty's
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
Especially if you think less about magstabs and more about tracking enhancers. Check the tracking and range on a blaster rokh that doesn't have magstabs, but instead fits 3x TE's.
You get a ship that does 500 DPS at 30Km, with meh tracking.
Then you look at a Scorch baddon...
Comparing weapons systems, Megapulse with scorch does more damage at better range on the Rokh than fitting T2 large Neutrons and using T2 LR ammo. Because to hit the same ranges, even with the Rokh range bonus, you need 3 TE's whereas the Megapulses can just fit heat sinks. But we all know lasers (Scorch/ base damage mod on pulses and tachyons) are OP already
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
The whole idea of the sleip is that it's always cool to fly a sleip. I'm I getting this right?
three-weeks-ago derrrp
~~~~GIMMIE +REP+ GIMMIE~~~~
Well, apart from that a Sleip can put out nearly 1k DPS and sustainably (navy cap boosters in a can) tank ~800+ with a good shield booster and low/high crystal sets. Or if you have no honor like me, 700dps and EWAR drones because anyone in a player corp will scream blue murder for help.
Fun fact, Solar Wing like to run missions in highsec with real people in front of the PC.
Not Dead, Just Sleeping
Necro.
Puhleaseee, flippin' cans is so pre-incursion. Hitting triggers, laughing as billion isk nightmares get pointed and 'sploded then scooping lootz with bombers is where its at.
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