No offense to XiX or Solar, but -a- is the main russian alliance in the game. It's the biggest and the most powerful as a whole. It's like claiming Groon is just as much a goon alliance as goonswarm is. Yes, they're both from SA and one might have a bigger percentage of goons in it than other, but Goonswarm is still going to get most of the members from SA sheerly because they're the main goon alliance in game.
Now imagine something like AAA+Solar+XiX+ROL (without going into the minor ones)... and we all see how much powerfull an unified alliance of the Russian community would be a powerblock all by itselfs.
Can they be considered as russian anymore though (taking in note Collective / BDCI / Havoc and Alba) ?Originally Posted by Yorda
Not to mention vvs corp ( or ppn ) is german.
They're still seen as "russian". That was my point about one having a high % of goons, because on average Groon probably has more goons in it than GS.
TBH, I don't believe that a country/region based "mega-alliance" could exists. Other than the obvious part of Russia being a huge fucking country with what I assume are lots of different and semi-seperate "cultural zones", I also believe that theres a "critical density" to country/culture based alliances. In essence, I believe that once a population of people of the same geographical/cultural zone exceeds a certain amount, tensions will amount to the point that said population will fragment to multiple minor alliances/groups, that may or may not function as a cohesive unit at times, but that are fractured from the get go and therefore are more likely to cave under external forces -> expenditure in internal dissent/fractures and untimatly an implosion. Basically, in laymen terms, when you have alot of people together, even cultural/geographical unity will not suffice to stop assholes from wanting to take power/ protect their own narrow interests. But then again, this prob has a name is some social theory, and can prob be furthered upon by people who actually know the insides of what made RA break down into -A- and xxx all those years ago (wasn't in the game, so I'm only privy to what I heard).
Anywho, I think that goons misjudged the amount of support the southern bloc will give to one of their members, even be it a "shitty" member like sys-k. I don't want to presume anything, but it feels like goons assumed sys-k will be left alone like alliances in the north have been "left alone" without actual intervention by the NC (I.e mostly harmless, atropos., etc). This can also be correlated to the goon view of allies vs pets - in which they don't interfere with internal issues of allied alliances. I assume (though again, not privy to internal workings of the -A- bloc), that the -A- bloc powerhouses do govern some of the internal workings of their "pets", and as such, the tendency to unite together to protect even the 'weakling' of such a bloc is much stronger than that of 'allies' based coalition.
In a simple analogy, I would compare the southern bloc to a bug-like society. The 'simple' soldiers (sys-k) are governed by the ruling class, and are generally seen as 'comrades' in the east or 'slaves' in the west. The soldiers don't have much in terms of leaders/ingenuity/adaptability/etc, but can easily supply the numbers to do brunt labor (support fleets, logistics, supplying cash, etc), where as the leaders (ROL) supply the elite soldiers, fcs , and general leadership of the bloc. A side effect of this leadership/bloc structure is that the worker alliances are much less likely to fail-cascade/break down under external pressure, since their leaders are based in the smaller yet ruling alliances (ROL).
Basically, goons underestimated the South's commitment to each other + the internal cohesion of 'worker' alliances such as sys-k, which imo is leading to the loss of this campaign.
P.S - sorry about the wall of text, and for any mistake in logic/facts/scientific specific words/ etc.
Then you are a retard. Counted them up just for you. The total number of Prom and Dyspro moons that the Southern Bloc holds in 0.0 (not sure about lowsecs): 55 prom, 37 dyspro
The total number Goons, ZAF, Rebellion owns in their three 0.0 regions (don't know about lowsecs): 31 prom, 22 dyspro
The Stainwagon alone as an entity, which you are attacking right now, holds 19 prom and 17 dyspro moons in Esoteria and Paragon soul, in addition they share 15 prom and 3 dyspro moons in Stain with AAA with a larger part going to Stain guys. Stainwagon likely has about 30 prom and 20 dyspro moons that they are milking, which matches your moon income. Contemplate that, propaganda child. Who is fighting the war of attrition here?
I think we can end the discussion about moon gold right about now.
I also love Goonswarm damage control, it's amazing and I find it very funny that their playerbase buys it every time.
1. We are going to kill Sys-k
2. We are trying to save ourselves from after-Dominion invasion
3. We are actually protecting Legion of xxDeathxx, which is not attacked
4. We are here for good fights
5. We are getting our participation up
6. Dreads were totally running out of insurance
7. .... I'm actually excited what the next explanation they will come up with for their failures. I'm not flaming either, that was some very good stuff there, keep it coming.
(c) Fox News outlet
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/U...n/corporations
Just a little fact check for you, mate. The only UNL corp that went to Rebellion is B-52, which is a weak UNL citizen corp that was in UNL for a very short time. One of their larger corps joined 404 (Daira Lir's alliance) and later switched to ROL with them. Another went to White Noise and shoots NC. Another one joined Solar Fleet and also shoots NC. Another one went to Darkside, which shoots absolutely everybody, including RA, XiX contrary to the popular belief on these forums. Darkside is a roaming PVP alliance that hates pos warfare, CTAs, etc. They are good at what they do because they have several experienced Xenobytes (Stain Empire) and SOT (Russian corp, not Sons of Tangra) FCs in their mix. The rest of the weaker UNL corps joined Red Alliance and spin offs like Voodoo and Lem Alliance.
So which "several corps that joined GS, ZAF" are you talking about here?
AAA is an international alliance, not a Russian one. The only reason people think it's Russian because a large portion of their big-time FCs were Russian, now they have additionally several prominent English speaking FCs as well. VVS corp is Russian, not German. PPN and DKOD (I think) are German. However there are people from all over Europe in Collective, R A, as well as many Americans in BDCI, Reunion, and HAVOC.
That is a pretty dumb theorycrafting right there. StainWagon is an independent entity which runs things by itself. They've been blue to each other long before they were blue to AAA and the rest, fighting by themselves. The Russian part of AAA-ROL bond in my opinion is strong and will remain strong as long as Nync is in ROL. Atlas also has good ties with their allies, who helped them take over the East. So the Southern Bloc has at least three completely separate groups in it, which were bored out of their minds with the Eastern Campaign ending recently. Goonswarm's ill-timed invasion gave them something to do, because they didn't have any immediate threats or goals to achieve. That timing speaks alot about the strategic planning department in Goonswarm, if they couldn't anticipate that a bunch of bored alliances would gladly come over and rape their face.
Goons are terrible at this game, I though that was apparent. We're pretty good at excuses though.
This has been a very funny few days pity it seems over, bye sys-k.
This pretty much sums it up in .-A-. We did a poll a little while back and found out that about 40-50% of the alliance now is Russian, and for the last few months it has been Euro's fcing the fleets.
TCF and pets are pulling out of cloud ring, and has so far lost 8 caps that has gotten ganked while movnig to mainly PL rr bs bridging on their heads.
Rumour has it MH are pulling out aswell, but that is not confirmed yet. This last 50 days TCF + Pets has been the ones doing 80% of the defending of the 9-4 area (MH sov 3 stations) so question is if MH can defend against EVOKE/SOT without tcf backup. (PL seems to be riding bicycles atm and loosing r64s like crazy to MM)
I'm pretty sure we only lost one lately?
we also got blue balled last night.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/QmauB.gif[/IMG]
Goons & Eso failpaign
It has been a boring few days of TZ Pos flipping and yawn. I for one would rather eat my own toe beer than shoot at pos's. So I definatly don't think its a pity, but you do what you gotta do.
The more obvious reason than "something to do" and "get rid of some bodies from stain wagon" is the "if we hit them they wont be hitting us at home" one, which was a good plan had it worked, but as said, the blue cohesion was stronger than GS realised.
bye gs. Cross TZ Pos flipping sucks monkey nuts for everyone.
//Carl Tremura
I'd much rather fight defensively than offensively.
If GS honestly planned on -a- letting Sys-k die then I really don't know what to say about the directorate. It's pretty fucking obvious that they arn't going to repeat their previous mistake of letting BoB die horribly.
Because they could've saved bob, right?
GoonSwarm announced it's pulling out of Esoteria, and DBRB got fired. While it wasn't said straight-up, a lot of things point to DBRB being the one who architected this debacle.
And the opposite of "damage control" is "hype" which is what this is. "Saving ourselves" is a massive exaggeration, "protecting XIX" wasn't really a justification played up at all, and "dreads were running out of insurance" was actually true and if you wind the clock back 12 weeks you will probably see why.
Did we lose this? Oh hell yes. Was it a terrible idea? Yes, and participation started dwindling as people realized that. Was it a devastating setback? No, not really. It was a slap in the face, but that's it. I don't think the membership is going to be particularly shaken by this for the same reason we weren't shaken by the first abortive Esoteria campaign: We didn't lose anything the membership cares about.
(And yes, that includes the titan, which isn't damage control because we really do not care when people/corps who are the butt of jokes, like IGNE, DBRB, BFM, and deadtear lose their expensive toys. We openly mock them for it and then move on because quite frankly, most of the membership thinks they're a waste of money in the first place.)
Well it lasted for a week, that's some "war of attrition." I don't know if it was mentioned here, but about 20 ZAF\Goon towers went down in A1 and GY over the weekend, including Friday night.
The quotes about Legion of xxDeathxx and etc are taken from your forums and posted here, whether they are played up a lot, a little, or not at all, I personally don't care. They were written by your alliance leaders though and not some random Goon member, so I assume they don't talk out of their asses.
Also nobody gives a shit whether some dreads were insured or not, so even mentioning that fact in a futile attempt of damage control is completely ridiculous. It also makes the damage control that much more obvious. I would actually more likely believe that they were insured if GS didn't mention anything about dreads and just brushed the loss over their shoulder, instead of coming up with complicated justification for their insurance timing.
Also I quoted you about UNL corps, any comments or response to that, mate?
In 3 days i have seen goons do some crazy things... crazy titan death with accompanying 38 cap doom, goon warping to the fc at 0 and decloaking him and getting him pwned, 20 man bomber fleet blowing themselves up, losing 25 poses to kill 2, Mittens getting double blinded by 2 guys who arent even close to "solar spy masters"... Total misunderstanding and underestimating of the people they are attacking...
This isnt a flame as much as to say i just thought GS was better than that. WTF happened, my guess is delve made them too comfortable and cocky.
I mean just the simple failures in intel like that we are renters from all from SE to ROL and "simple soldiers" (fair enough.. i got no problem bieng a simple soldier.. I like to fight.) and that the alliances that we are close with would leave us to dry was very wrong, as you have seen.
I dont know where i am going with this other than to say dem bees aint what they used ta bee. Time will tell if they get thier shit together or go the way of thier homes previous owners... for much the same reasons.
Maybey Delve is cursed? I lived there for a long time when i was a director in a BoB corp (not this toon), and it was nothing but hassle from day one and I am glad those days are gone.
///Carl Tremura
I wasn't talking about the pos warfare. I was talking about the various fights we got and their results.
There was 10 of us at that point and we only killed half ourselves.
Edit: we did however manage to bomb everyone in the fleet (I lived in low armor) and I think we podded everyone who exploded.
Well, the opening post about literally said "we're not sure what the reaction to this will be." I don't think planning on AAA to not give much of a shit was unrealistic because the entire southern bloc has a long history of not really helping their allies even when they're right next door.
I do think that the logistics of the campaign doomed it to failure from day one though.
It's not possible to justify it because the reason they were lost boils down to "DBRB is an idiot." There's a difference between justifying it and caring about it though.
The tickers have changed several times over. I'm not going to understand the Russians, ironically I asked for an explanation of what's going on and the first response was "it would take too long to explain" and the second was "I'll write it up some time."Also I quoted you about UNL corps, any comments or response to that, mate?
BKS did join ZAF at one point, several went to SOLAR, several flipped to XIX and then went to ROL, so I really have no idea. I don't think, however, that there are any signs that their decision to stay in Omist instead of move to Querious was our fault.
Well, mate. BKS is not a core UNL corp by a milestone, and it's not in ZAF atm. It's pretty much an insignificant carebearing corp of about 30-50 people that joined UNL as a part of a failed experiment to get multinational. Since they were not Russian they were completely alienated in UNL and didn't participate in many alliance events. At some point I think they attempted to join Minor Threat and were turned down. So those guys have nothing to do with UNL, which was in reality a pure Russian alliance.
Also try to work on your reading comprehension and work on improving your posting. I haven't mentioned anything about GS being at fault for whatever reason, all I've commented on is just obvious bullshit. It's just when you don't know anything about the subject, writing a post about it makes you look like a complete fool.
So why is it DBRBs fault? Are you saying you could have matched those 172 dreads and 600 total numbers that the southern coalition had on US prime two days ago?
Was it not the GS director who decided to attack, how can the blame fall on a FC?
I don't think there would have been that sort of turnout if we didn't provide a rallying cry for it. Burning that much at once was basically saying "we have nothing to stop you for a few days, please counter-attack now."
I blame DBRB because burning the cap fleet at that time was entirely his decision.
Dbrb was a director which is pretty funny to begin with.
When Goonswarm took Delve they had the NC and PL holding their hands. This time they didn't.
Yes, i think every spaceships generals can agree that after an entire week of TZ war, suiciding theirs capfleet on an friday... right before the first weekend of this war and which was expectable an good turnout, but it was just an massive one in USTZ.
Although if it already ended, well dominion it is still 1 month away... so goonswarm will have to bitch on forums one entire month, oh noes what will happen.
Edit: to last post, how RZR and MM is always refered as NC (when NC actually is comprised by something like 15k chars, at the time was around 13k or something) is above me, its just 2 fucking entities that happen to be the head of NC
hahaha look at all these new accounts showing up.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/QmauB.gif[/IMG]
And Sys-K had AAA/Stainwagon/Atlas "holding their hands" in this case too. Talking about people needing their allies to operate as a sign of weakness is a stupid CAOD gimmick that isn't grounded in reality because NOBODY is really capable of anything themselves any more. Please, stop.
dbrb is going on vacation, it's likely a troll. dbrb probably wasn't solely responsible for it, the entire directorate is ineffectual plus retarded and karttoon just lets them do whatever stupid shit they want to do because he isn't really interested in anything past empire jihad
Sigh, people always seem to go attack people with lots of friends then wonder why they get blobbed to hell...
Atlas just uprooted RA from insmother again.
inb4killingdeadallianceslol
He wasn't stripped of his FC position or kicked out of the corp, though his supposed ragequit is probably a troll.
He was stripped of being in charge of the FC program, something which probably has to do with the fact that he's been consistently doing the exact opposite of what's needed to get new decent FCs.
in before being the exception rather then the rule?
Let me put it this way: If Stainwagon, without AAA/ROL/Atlas support, decided to invade Fountain, what do you think would happen?
was actually in response to the atlas guy... (cross posting ftl)
the less support they got, the faster the offensive would be halted.
they didn't do it by themselves
They had help from RA
Kartoon said that they expected to be blobbed in a forum post on the goon forums.
CThey had help from RA
And they are all better posters then you
UNL was stricken with a severe lack of active leadership at the time and since there was no one to step up and okay a move they didn't have one or even really pull back their forces from the PS systems. The other coalition members (Goonswarm, RA, XIX, whatever) should have pushed their directors harder to make a decision even without an active leader. I mean it was fucking obvious that they were in an undefendable area with their space as spread out and far south as it was.
Badges of Honor: Three probations, one reversed.
why do you hate me soAnd they are all better posters then you
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/QmauB.gif[/IMG]
Wait, when was this?
Badges of Honor: Three probations, one reversed.
GS did push them. They wanted the good fights~
Back before ROL/AAA turned and we were defending Esoteria against Stainwagon.
I know it was on the last few pages, but the discussions here are getting better and better with each day passing. I think kugu and this thread particularly are starting to shape up as the next meaningful platform for discussion. And we all have to thank Alex for that. I know I registered because of this thread and the huge hype it generated within the russian forum community.
Anyway, it still amazes me how little people actually know about and more importantly comprehend AAA. Even after its public exposure days during Jake's "SUPERFRIENDS" days on CAOD, groups such as Goonswarm (known for their super solar spy master) do not know basic things about their newborn mortal enemy.
I still clearly remember a discussion on TS with AAA's old-club boys on the matter of public exposure. Famous EVE-RU porn star Blaster Worm then said "Keep a low profile lads, enemies fear an opponent they do not know more".
But I guess, unveiling a few things won't hurt - particularly misconceptions that can actually offend people's e- and rl- egos.
DKOD is a former IAC corporation, which at some point in time merged with another old, old, old-school IAC corp - FIRMA. They have since been members of AAA. Their composition is EU and US.
PPN is a former Stain Empire, German-speaking corporation, which was born from the merger of two German corporations - one of them Prodigy Enterprises, the other's corp name unfortunately I do not remember. They have been members of AAA since forever.
VVS Corporition (yes, they spelled "corporation" wrong) is a Russian-speaking corporation whose history I do not know. They have, too, been members of AAA since the dawn of time.
Now, that "poll" that seliana mentioned a few pages ago may or may have not been taken place. But I remember waving around a link to a graph, that I compiled from data readily available on Dotlan, labeled "AAA Demographics". It was a 2 minute work with Excel that basically showed that AAA is now predominantly EU and US-centered with around 60% to 40% in favor of United States of Europe and America members.
AAA is an outstanding internet spaceships entity that, if nothing else, is EVE's first major example of Russians and Europeans/Americans coexisting together, and more importantly, kicking e-ass all around the place. It is the imperialistic globalist's wet dream come true.
That was mostly correct except for a few parts that were not. (PPN was formed from three merged corps, the extremely old version of Curse Alliance was the first powerful and important Russian/others alliance, etc.)
Badges of Honor: Three probations, one reversed.
sry, nop. old school RA (2004/2005 era) had a rather sizable US/EU English-speaking wing back in the day.
REUNION was a consolidation of alot of the English speaking corps. others member corps, like Alcatraz,
went on to form TNT.
I know a few R.N guys from the US (and that's all there was when they joined AAA), but there's not a whole lot of them. As for Curse Alliance, it might hold some truth, I started playing in 2007.
Everyone hates DBRB and he can shrug all that shit off like water off a duck's back so they made him the scape goat, neat. Also ZAF lost a station system to Leguinae Romanaia? Neat. (No, I'm not going to use that stupid fucking nickname, go fuck yourselves.)
What a fucking crock, I can point out more than a few things in there that are probably lies but why bother. Oh well, these are the supposedly"invincible"
Badges of Honor: Three probations, one reversed.
Oh and look, Finfleet joined IT.
Badges of Honor: Three probations, one reversed.
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