Tales From the South

**Gnome** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by TrojanMan

15 man NC. gang bridged onto my cynabal.

they failed to kill me and proceeded to tell me how terrible of a pilot I was (for not dying for them).

Asking why they weren't doing anything else...

"we're bored"

You bother asking that when you know we do it because you will run here and whine?

Oh wait...

**Velonad** · 2011-12-16

The Darkside/SoT Armor Arty Lokis raping the shit out of Oracles.

Can't say I'm surprised.

**n0th** · 2011-12-16

-A- had 50ish Oracles + support (KLMT- local 110-ish) so cant say we were all too sure of victory. We thought they would kite and blap our guardians.

But then they jump in and proceed to orbit gate (lol?) while losing 6 Oracles/minute. They then tried to gain range but it was too late. Fight lasted like 4 minutes, after that it was just catching stragglers/chewing on tackled Damnation+Loki.

http://kb.ds-alliance.com/battle/b3087/
http://a-killed.me/?a=kill_related&kll_id=581674

**Rene Winter** · 2011-12-16

Obviously the space dick was petitioned because the balls needed to be bigger in order to make an accurate representation.

**thatsthejoke** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Velonad

The Darkside/SoT Armor Arty Lokis raping the shit out of Oracles.

Can't say I'm surprised.

Unlike, say, NCDOT who brings shield AC canes.

Also, word is Sort almost lost 2 command ships in the same night to the same fleet.

http://a-killed.me/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=581891

**Analogic Disturbance** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by thatsthejoke

Unlike, say, NCDOT who brings shield AC canes.

Also, word is Sort almost lost 2 command ships in the same night to the same fleet.

http://a-killed.me/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=581891

TS:

XXX: Primary is YYYY
XXX: No wait
XXX: HERE'S VINCE, KILL THAT MOTHERFUCKER NOW

**Propagandas** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by thatsthejoke

Unlike, say, NCDOT who brings shield AC canes.

Also, word is Sort almost lost 2 command ships in the same night to the same fleet.

http://a-killed.me/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=581891

if only he didnt have 10 tech posses to fund them command ships :CC

**thatsthejoke** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Propagandas

if only he didnt have 10 tech posses to fund them command ships :CC

isk > skill. errday.

**Dragon** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by thatsthejoke

isk > skill. errday.

Yup thats true but still no isk in the world would make -A- engage us regularly... Props to Mukk he is awesome as he loves to fight and is a good sport no matter the outcome I am just terrible at this game.

**thatsthejoke** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Dragon

Yup thats true but still no isk in the world would make -A- engage us regularly

Wtf does that even mean? lol.

**Fedaykin055** · 2011-12-16

He wants to fornicate with the regularly?

**Lorren Canada** · 2011-12-16

Dragon, I think you're confused as to which side your on here

**Smelly Old Vet** · 2011-12-16

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**Player of no importance** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Smelly Old Vet

Why would anyone even try to tank a Tier3 BC?

Brawling close range setups on Tier3 BCs makes my head hurt. It provides zero benefits (none) over Tier2 BCs, and because of better tracking + drones Tier2 cruisers will out-damage them while also having 3 times more tank. These people who came up with this idea are idiots.

EFT Warrior nooblars: "Look at that high DPS figure. This thing rapes in any situation!"

That would probably be the same people that came up with MM's fail fucking fits in Delve that we had to put up with. *cough* MV/hirr EFT warriors *cough*

**thatsthejoke** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Player of no importance

That would probably be the same people that came up with MM's fail fucking fits in Delve that we had to put up with. *cough* MV/hirr EFT warriors *cough*

I don't see any -A- FC regulars on that BR...Mukk wouldn't have made the close-range gate orbit mistake to be sure.

**Gnome** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by thatsthejoke

I don't see any -A- FC regulars on that BR...Mukk wouldn't have made the close-range gate orbit mistake to be sure.

FREE MUKKBAROVIAN!

Content: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3RgN1A9I8c

**Loremaster680** · 2011-12-16

it was Maka, though there was never an orbit gate order so whoever was doing that was doing their own shit

**Grath** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Smelly Old Vet

Why would anyone even try to tank a Tier3 BC?

Brawling close range setups on Tier3 BCs makes my head hurt. It provides zero benefits (none) over Tier2 BCs, and because of better tracking + drones Tier2 cruisers will out-damage them while also having 3 times more tank. These people who came up with this idea are idiots.

EFT Warrior nooblars: "Look at that high DPS figure. This thing rapes in any situation!"

Thats like saying Hellcats are bad, when in fact abbadons rape face.

The set up they're running is essentially a 'poor mans' Abbadon gang, its not bad. It has healthy HP, pretty good damage, and mega pulse tracking backed up by a tracking comp that makes it slightly better.

We looked at them, and the set up is fairly solid, but we can't really think of anything that you'd use those for that we wouldn't just take abbadons for instead. But because our abbadon load out is like, 350 million before insurance payout, and those things are like, 120 million before insurance payout, we could see where they'd be attractive to an alliance thats not mega space rich.

**Smelly Old Vet** · 2011-12-16

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**Grath** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Smelly Old Vet

- Abaddon has 5%-25% resist bonus, and great base armor which makes it an excellent tank, this is why hellcat fleets are successful.
- Tier3 BCs use battleship guns but move faster than other battlecruisers. This actually has negative effect on their damage potential. In a close range setup their speed is actually to their detriment. Not surprised at all the fleet in the kill link above didn't manage to kill a single ship.

This is why brawling with Tier3 BCs is a terrible idea. Even a prophecy will outperform an oracle in this role if you're concerned about the isk.

Except you're wrong.

A fleet of these burns through a hurricane fleet in no time flat, while tanking the cane fleet nicely. I believe in one engagement I've seen where cane vs oracle numbers were nearly matched, one of the oracles tanked 146k damage before it died, in that same time the entire cane fleet got wiped out.

In gang they come out just slightly over 70k efhp with a little tweak to what they're running, with their current fleet fit its slightly under 60k, so not that bad, at retard dps.

You don't burn with your mwd on firing your guns, you simply orbit an anchor at and shoot, with a tracking script in your tcomp.

Lastly, those Lokis have a base 93% em resist, the FC was stupid to engage them in lasar ships to begin with, coupled with the fact that they run an afterburner and sig tank the bs. It would have gone the same with nearly any BS fleet that didn't have painters, webs, and a high kinetic damage output.

tl'dr you're dumb as shit and seem to not 'get' how fitting, or generally eve mechanics work.

Originally Posted by Smelly Old Vet

This is why brawling with Tier3 BCs is a terrible idea. Even a prophecy will outperform an oracle in this role if you're concerned about the isk.

This is also in the running for the stupidest statement made in the thread

**John Caffeine** · 2011-12-16

Why aren't they just using Armageddons instead of Oracles if they want close range brawling, but can't afford Abaddons?

**Grogoth** · 2011-12-16

I'm a bitter old vet that has been playing EFT for 9 years and therefore my opinions are more valid on ships that were released 2 weeks ago.

Also, I suck dicks

**Grath** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by John Caffeine

Why aren't they just using Armageddons instead of Oracles if they want close range brawling, but can't afford Abaddons?

I can't say for sure (because I can't be bothered to read the fitting thread on their forums right now) but I assume its part of the Battlecruiser craze.

If i had to guess it would be:

1) Most alliances went through the drake thing so shit tons of dudes have BC5

2) Swapping over from drakes to Oracles is pretty easy overall, its like, amarr frig 4 and amarr cruiser 4 skills, plus some light gunnery work (a lot of dudes are using t1 guns if you look)

3) The loss of a BC is somehow easier to swallow over the loss of a BS for these alliances (even though in this case due to gun costs its still pretty fucking high).

**Combat Scrub** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Grath

Except you're wrong.

A fleet of these burns through a hurricane fleet in no time flat, while tanking the cane fleet nicely. I believe in one engagement I've seen where cane vs oracle numbers were nearly matched, one of the oracles tanked 146k damage before it died, in that same time the entire cane fleet got wiped out.

In gang they come out just slightly over 70k efhp with a little tweak to what they're running, with their current fleet fit its slightly under 60k, so not that bad, at retard dps.

You don't burn with your mwd on firing your guns, you simply orbit an anchor at and shoot, with a tracking script in your tcomp.

Lastly, those Lokis have a base 93% em resist, the FC was stupid to engage them in lasar ships to begin with, coupled with the fact that they run an afterburner and sig tank the bs. It would have gone the same with nearly any BS fleet that didn't have painters, webs, and a high kinetic damage output.

tl'dr you're dumb as shit and seem to not 'get' how fitting, or generally eve mechanics work.

This is also in the running for the stupidest statement made in the thread

But Grath ...

Originally Posted by Smelly Old Vet

what do I know I am a bitter old vet who's been doing this shit since 2003. Eventually hivemind metagame tends to catch up to my thinking. I even argued for hellcat fleets back in 2007, but noone listened.

**Smelly Old Vet** · 2011-12-16

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**Smelly Old Vet** · 2011-12-16

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**Ymir** · 2011-12-16

I can confirm that Old Vets are indeed smelly.

**Combat Scrub** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Smelly Old Vet

Grath needs his cock sucked too. You should get on it.

If you were a "bitter old vet" in Kugu, you'd know I don't suck Grath's dick. But I also don't tolerate self-righteous idiots who try to justify all their claims with "I've been playing since 2003"

The Tier 3 BCs aren't just glass cannons, but hey, I'm sure you've flown thousands of them in the years you've played EVE...

**Smelly Old Vet** · 2011-12-16

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**Grath** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Smelly Old Vet

Anyways, I think you're referring to a fight between Canes and Oracles where Oracles won but they had twice the fleet size. Properly fit canes will rape an equal oracle fleet with the setup you're advocating here you jobber.

I challenge that statement, and literally dare you to prove it. You can get any 50 dudes you want, I'll run the exact same oracle set up they're running right now, and we'll put a 2 billion isk bet on the line with Chribba.

The fleets were no less than 8 in number difference, the cane fleet was 'properly set up', as in it was a standard welp cane fleet, nobody else runs canes so if you want to pull some super set up out of your ass you're literally a shit talking fucking retard.

The canes did the right thing, and tried to come in close, only you're a mouth breather who lives off a spread sheet instead of going in game to see that tracking scripted mega pulse II's track BC's like nobodies business, and many a cane dies when facing 8-900 dps from 30 or more abbadons, its like alpha fleet, only with more lights.

You are literally just going to sit here and argue without ever backing your shit up so I'm now just going to start a completely biased campaign to neg rep your stupidity into the ground because I'm tired of arguing with a wall that obviously only plays in simulators and tries to scale what happens one on one with ships to what happens in fleets, and still just doesn't get that the mega pulse lasar is simply the single best BS short range (lol 90km short range) gun in the game and does things that your stupid spread sheets can't quite quantify.

**Malcore** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Smelly Old Vet

But what do I know I am a bitter old vet who's been doing this shit since 2003. Eventually hivemind metagame tends to catch up to my thinking. I even argued for hellcat fleets back in 2007, but noone listened.

This is why you are retarded. In 2007 2 titans would roll over any close range BS fleet, logistics were practically non-existent, and sniping apocs would ownzone the shit out of you from 200km away. Mechanics have changed considerably over the last 4 years and have only recently (in the grand scheme of EVE) have close range brawling battleships become extremely effective.

**Doink9731** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Smelly Old Vet

Grath needs his cock sucked too.

Wrong again. If you were a bitter old vet you'd know this was not the case.

We blow him constantly.

**Smelly Old Vet** · 2011-12-16

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**Doink9731** · 2011-12-16

MY HINDSIGHT IS 20/20

**Grath** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Smelly Old Vet

I have never been wrong.

Except right now, where literally every single word you say is wrong.

I currently envision you as one of the fathers of the triple tanked DD fit that died in a fire because it tanked 3 dd's then had 200 sniper apocs warp in and just rape the fuck out of it because it was too fat and slow to get out of its own way.

**Smelly Old Vet** · 2011-12-16

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**Grath** · 2011-12-16

Thanks to thedisto for hooking me up, now, fuck face, lets sit and have a talk me and you.

Heres the fucking battle report dick head: http://kb.pleaseignore.com/?a=kill_r...&kll_id=311085

The logi's got out for the most part, but that was after every fucking BC on the field had a dick shoved in its mouth by the oracle fleet

Here's one of the Oracles that died: http://kb.pleaseignore.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=311059
Heres' another one: http://kb.pleaseignore.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=311085

If you take the time to look at the BR and run the time line, 3 of them died when the canes landed and enaged before the reps could cycle, but once the reps were up and running the oracles tanked fine, amazing, even while outnumbered.

The cane fleet was bigger.

It dropped ON the oracles.

It got obliterated.

Now you'll say something about "lolTEST" or something equally retarded, but the mistake they made in that fight was simple, they engaged in what they were in. There were a few other set ups they run that would have raped that, but pound for pound that oracle fleet will obliterate another t3 fleet. Add a firewall and it'll do to drakes what hellcats do.

**Smelly Old Vet** · 2011-12-16

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**John Caffeine** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Smelly Old Vet

Less than 30% of that fleet composition were Oracles. It was a better fleet composition overall too, with proper command bonuses. Not to mention TEST pilots usually have shit skillpoints (I like TEST, but it's true). In any case Cane fleet still did better than the Oracle fleet in the above engagement where Oracle fleet didn't manage a single kill. That's pretty laughable.

I'm sorry, but I got the impression you think an equal sized Hurricane fleet would've gotten a kill against Darkside's Tech3 fleet.

**Dysphonia** · 2011-12-16

To add to Grath's post; the majority of the oracles that died died early, with the fleet at almost 0 on them, when they were aggressed and bubbled on a gate (after I lost a few of the canes in a silly mistake). What the battle report doesn't show is the few people who I called primary who didn't die, and were then ignored as primary; be it due to range or rep issues. Oracle fleets are pretty nasty. I'll actually happily ignore command bonuses for the purposes of this, and point out that their SFIs were just heavy tackle. In addition, even with several of their oracles dead, they made really short work of my cane at the end; they do damm sexy DPS. Also, in addition to very respectable EHP, remember their small sig radius, and not /terrible/ speed.

Never again will I touch oracles with welpcanes. It was either that or artycanes/drakes, and I didn't feel like intentionally sitting in their optimals. Possibly a mistake, but it happens.

**Grath** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Smelly Old Vet

Less than 30% of that fleet composition were Oracles. It was a better fleet composition overall too, with proper command bonuses. Not to mention TEST pilots usually have shit skillpoints (I like TEST, but it's true). Those two rapier pilots played a key role too actually out-damaging Oracles in many of the kills, but more importantly webbing.

In any case Cane fleet still did better than the Oracle fleet in the above engagement where Oracle fleet didn't manage a single kill. That's pretty laughable.

So, should i go through and quote all your posts in a row so you can see where you lost the objective ability to admit you were possibly wrong, or can you work it out yourself?

Because right now your argument is on roller skates to make it easier to move around.

**Smelly Old Vet** · 2011-12-16

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**Grath** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Dysphonia

Never again will I touch oracles with welpcanes. It was either that or artycanes/drakes, and I didn't feel like intentionally sitting in their optimals. Possibly a mistake, but it happens.

Totally not your fault, there was just as much potential for me or somebody else to engage that wrong and get our ass kicked as its something new and slightly unexpected.

Most people are like fuck head up here and think lolt3 tank, when those oracles actually kind of jump out and tank on you while dishing out fuck loads of DPS. It was bound to be somebody that found out, you just got the unlucky draw. Your fleet was bigger, and well stocked but it just didn't know to expect what those oracles do, engaging at the time was the obvious choice, in hindsight its of course wrong but just about everybody would have made the same call.

I mean listen to this fucking douchebag, according to him a prophecy does a better job than an oracle against a cane fleet so he DEFINITELY would have engaged that and got his shit pushed in too.

**Grath** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Smelly Old Vet

Why the fuck did you let Rapiers live?

I don't think you get the dps levels we're talking about here, the fight was over pretty quick

**Dastommy** · 2011-12-16

whoooaaaaaa.............. These call outs make this thread so much better.

Go on please

**Dysphonia** · 2011-12-16

Originally Posted by Grath

I don't think you get the dps levels we're talking about here, the fight was over pretty quick

Yeah, it wasn't long at all. A few minutes until I just said get out if you can, and then a few of us got just picked off by the SFI's webs, less by the rapiers in practice. Also it was my first time leading a fleet that size, I made mistakes, deal with it.

And yeah, I had no real idea what to expect when it came down to it; I expected them to be a longer range fleet, but they do great DPS up close too. Honestly, at the end of the day I'm not actually that annoyed at how it turned out.

**Smelly Old Vet** · 2011-12-16

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**Teak** · 2011-12-16

This argument was over as soon as Smelly made the Prophecy claim. That was fan-fuckin'-tastic self-ownage. Every post since has been beating a dead horse.