Local chat: for all your local discussion needs

[lothos]

Give local 30 second delay, increase rat bounties by 20-40%
OR
REMOVE local, increase rat bounties by 100%

Wow, what a fucking amazingly difficult problem

Actually that is a pretty awesome change.

[Quesa]

Right now local chat is not as OP tool as some players tend to portrait it, and the reason is - pve part in nullsec is incredibly tedious and boring, after a hour or so of non-stop grinding people tend to lose focus and quite often you wont be noticed for 10-20 seconds after entering local.
..and those local chat changes would completely eliminate that part, so no more free ratter kills unless you make effort of placing cloaky cynoalt in ratting system.

For those who want to eliminate local chat completely - you maybe forgetting about mining, those cute little miners in their juicy hulks are totally vulnerable to anything with nearly no way to protect themselves. Now, maybe, just maybe, you would like to consider changes in drone regions, removal of non-named t1 loot from drop tables and noticable efforts of CCP in banning publicly available mining bots' users.

Ironic statement?

Local is and always has been the best in-game tool for intel.

[Grim]

Not sure if anyone said this before, but what about adding the ability for recons to "hack" gates? Warp to gate, use hacking module, based on skills and a dice roll you get 30s-5min. of no local updates in the system that gate goes to. So the person next door will see no change in local when you jump in, and will have to rely on dscanning, assuming he doesnt read intel, or your gang took the time to hack each gate and were really quick.

So you need specialist ships in your small gang, you could hack gates constantly during fleet fights to mess up local counts, and a small buff to dscan would fit nicely with this as well.

[Marivauder]

I don't see local chat change discussions working, becuase it's allways two sides, one side that doesn't want local changed so they can rat in piece, while the other side want to kill thes ratters

[Zagdul]

Another dude who missed the point.

Well done sir. Well done.


e:You fuel the fire by lumping the people who don't want the change with people who want to rat in peace.

I don't want the change because I want more retards in null sec to shoot at. Removing local will only help to keep those retards out and under the umbrella of empire / CONCORD.

Also, removing local makes PvP more work. How do you propose you find targets, with current mechanics and not breaking the game entirely, without a local, on a daily basis?

[Manfred Hideous]

Another dude who missed the point.

Well done sir. Well done.


e:You fuel the fire by lumping the people who don't want the change with people who want to rat in peace.

I don't want the change because I want more retards in null sec to shoot at. Removing local will only help to keep those retards out and under the umbrella of empire / CONCORD.

Also, removing local makes PvP more work. How do you propose you find targets, with current mechanics and not breaking the game entirely, without a local, on a daily basis?

How many people besides Grath are still talking about an outright local ban? There've been some decent ideas here that nerf local without removal.

[Securitas]

Another dude who missed the point.

Well done sir. Well done.


e:You fuel the fire by lumping the people who don't want the change with people who want to rat in peace.

I don't want the change because I want more retards in null sec to shoot at. Removing local will only help to keep those retards out and under the umbrella of empire / CONCORD.

Also, removing local makes PvP more work. How do you propose you find targets, with current mechanics and not breaking the game entirely, without a local, on a daily basis?

I suggested this earlier zagdul. Preserve instant updating of numbers of people in space, just not their standings/names. Yes, a massive coalition like CFC will find it hard to coordinate so the fleet might be blue.

http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread...l=1#post391974 Here

[Zagdul]

How many people besides Grath are still talking about an outright local ban? There've been some decent ideas here that nerf local without removal.

Dude, I was arguing that he's lumping people together and that I am of a third party who believes it should remain so there are more targets for me to shoot. Not only that, but it should actually be made easier.

Shit, radar with blips, bleeps and boops, that flash and alerts when dudes are hostile (negative standings) and nearby.

No really, I want absolute morons in space in null sec. More of them. You put 100 more ratters in a constellation in null, for the 95 who pay attention to the there's 5 who wont and give me something to kill. I would also like an early warning system so I can see how many bad dudes are two systems out, screw this shit where it's only my system.

If they've got 100, shit I might need to ping for more dudes in my 20 man gang. If I can get 100, I'll engage.

[Mira Z]

No really, I want absolute morons in space in null sec.

I'd say you've made a good start with FA then

[tgr]

How many people besides Grath are still talking about an outright local ban? There've been some decent ideas here that nerf local without removal.

The only idea I've seen which is on the "nerf local" agenda which I can see not being a complete assfuck, is the "delay local until you uncloak from gatecloak" (not "cloaked = gone from local"). All the rest of them will imply that I'll most likely not be building a hulk and mining with it, because the effort of doing so outweighs the idea of just going "meh, done with fleet work for today, time to go back to crusader kings 2".

I'm still thinking that if we were to make any changes to "local", it would be to remove local from all of nullsec, but give sov holders the ability to replace it with an anchorable module which does more or less the same thing. That way there's an actual benefit to putting up sov somewhere, but it can be interdicted. People who do incursions to other people's space won't have the same benefit of it being their home terf. And NPC null would be without local, so those who are so desperate for small gang warfare can get their no-local on all they want.

[Zagdul]

I suggested this earlier zagdul. Preserve instant updating of numbers of people in space, just not their standings/names. Yes, a massive coalition like CFC will find it hard to coordinate so the fleet might be blue.

http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread...l=1#post391974 Here

The idea isn't bad and would discourage people who enjoy pvp having a fuckton of blues. I could get on board with it.

I'm still a big fan of keeping all current systems the same and not showing up till after you decloak. Standings and all show up, but damn, for a roaming gang to have 30 seconds (or is it 45?) in a system would be awesome.

[Securitas]

Good idea TGR, make it a level 5 module equivalent to a cynojammer though so you have to be somewhat selective about where you put it instead of spamming it everywhere.

[Zagdul]

I'd say you've made a good start with FA then

iceburn!

[Zagdul]

Good idea TGR, make it a level 5 module equivalent to a cynojammer though so you have to be somewhat selective about where you put it instead of spamming it everywhere.

As long as we're not charged for it I'm on board.

[Grim]

I would also like an early warning system so I can see how many bad dudes are two systems out, screw this shit where it's only my system.

I am pretty sure this already exists, its called an intel channel.

Anything beyond that is retarded, because we need more fog of war, not less.

[Securitas]

As long as we're not charged for it I'm on board.

Well it'd cost the same as a cynojammer probably. The service it'd provide (compared to no local) would be worth it though, IMO.

In this hypothetical "new system" you'd have to think about the baseline as being no intel at all. So isn't an all-seeing god eye worth a couple billion a month?

[Marivauder]

have the local cloak delay in all systems, althought have a infractrusture upgrade which makes it not delay although they can't be fitted with the ratting upgrade


i'm just throwing ideas around here

[Grim]

As long as we're not charged for it I'm on board.

The point of making it level 5 would be to make it so expensive that you place them wisely.

[tgr]

Good idea TGR, make it a level 5 module equivalent to a cynojammer though so you have to be somewhat selective about where you put it instead of spamming it everywhere.

You do realize that there are somewhat hard limits to how many ratters a system can sustain?

[Grim]

have the local cloak delay in all systems, althought have a infractrusture upgrade which makes it not delay although they can't be fitted with the ratting upgrade


i'm just throwing ideas around here

Having an upgrade tree would be cool. Force people to make choices on what upgrades they want in a system, kind of like implants. They might need to add more options for ihub upgrades to make this work, but it would make space more specialized, and not just a slap everything on and call it a day.

Edit: TGR, while there are limits to how many anoms are in a system, this can always be changed by CCP to reflect the changes we are discussing here. So from my pov its not a key issue for this discussion.

[Mira Z]

Or you could tie it to something like military 5 so it couldn't be placed in systems that were unused. Either way, intel black holes that allow entire fleets to disappear are a nice idea.

[tgr]

"guys guys we must have a ratting CTA so we can anchor the "show local" module! Guys? Guys?"

[Securitas]

"guys guys we must have a ratting CTA so we can anchor the "show local" module! Guys? Guys?"

Come on in the CFC the fleet would be full of Tengus in minutes

[Grim]

"guys guys we must have a ratting CTA so we can anchor the "show local" module! Guys? Guys?"

Wouldn't it work like the mining upgrades though? You have to have x many kills per day to keep it online. That would be a good thing actually, forcing people to rat in key pipes and border systems.

[tgr]

Come on in the CFC the fleet would be full of Tengus in minutes

Yes, because the entire EVE is like the CFC, right?

[tgr]

Wouldn't it work like the mining upgrades though? You have to have x many kills per day to keep it online. That would be a good thing actually, forcing people to rat in key pipes and border systems.

I would literally start killing babies if I were in an alliance which had ratting CTAs.

[Grim]

I would literally start killing babies if I were in an alliance which had ratting CTAs.

Well your in luck, and your alliance doesnt have CTAs at all. They have all hands on deck wake up early to reinforce moon operations instead.

But seriously, you get what you pay for, whether its in isk or effort. And given the vast wealth of many alliances effort is probably a better metric for keeping upgrades than simple sov costs.

[Mira Z]

Wouldn't it work like the mining upgrades though? You have to have x many kills per day to keep it online. That would be a good thing actually, forcing people to rat in key pipes and border systems.

That's exactly what I meant.

And forcing people to rat in those systems to maintain intel means that they are more accessible targets for a roaming gang.

[tgr]

I can see it now, somewhere in the south:

"Hey, can we get the intelligence module up in system x?"
"No, we already have it up in 2 systems go rat there."
"But, it's full!"
"Do you realize it costs 600m/month pr system to pay for it? We can't afford more systems!"
"God null is so gay, I'm going back to empire."

[Manfred Hideous]

That's exactly what I meant.

And forcing people to rat in those systems to maintain intel means that they are more accessible targets for a roaming gang.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[Grim]

I can see it now, somewhere in the south:

"Hey, can we get the intelligence module up in system x?"
"No, we already have it up in 2 systems go rat there."
"But, it's full!"
"Do you realize it costs 600m/month pr system to pay for it? We can't afford more systems!"
"God null is so gay, I'm going back to empire."

But when they rebalance tech everything will be good. Right? RIGHT??

[Jm24]

Hi there,

Local haters lets discuss fair. if local changes please remove all statistics from the API and ingame map browser such as real time cyno use, npc kills, jumps, pilots in space, kills. People want Eve to be more hardcore with no intel, sure. Fair is fair, remove everything and give a 4 hour delay to info from the API.

QQ I can't see where that supercap fleet cynos to instantly, or map wormholes for pve activity

[Arrador]

Hi there,

Local haters lets discuss fair. if local changes please remove all statistics from the API and ingame map browser such as real time cyno use, npc kills, jumps, pilots in space, kills. People want Eve to be more hardcore with no intel, sure. Fair is fair, remove everything and give a 4 hour delay to info from the API.

QQ I can't see where that supercap fleet cynos to instantly, or map wormholes for pve activity

and nerf the address book.

[fargon]

Do we really need unique names we choose? Removing character, corp and alliance names in favor of random numbers will make it harder to track who's good and who's bad and infinitely easier to shoot "blues".

Really, it's the logical next step.

[Manfred Hideous]

The internet, on which we play is too powerful. Nerf the intarwebs.

Oh, the EU already is. GJ guys!

[Fix Lag]

and nerf the address book.

Yeah, unless it's mutual, you should have to use locator agents to determine if someone is active. I think that would be an interesting and welcome change. No-effort players, you may now QQ.

[Securitas]

I can see it now, somewhere in the south:

"Hey, can we get the intelligence module up in system x?"
"No, we already have it up in 2 systems go rat there."
"But, it's full!"
"Do you realize it costs 600m/month pr system to pay for it? We can't afford more systems!"
"God null is so gay, I'm going back to empire."

Pretty much any system in EVE (especially if it's full) can easily pay 600m/month in taxes if you rat in it.

[Fix Lag]

Pretty much any system in EVE (especially if it's full) can easily pay 600m/month in taxes if you rat in it.

Enthusiastically rat, maybe. I ain't ratting in a -0.1 system. The payout sucks.

[Securitas]

Enthusiastically rat, maybe. I ain't ratting in a -0.1 system. The payout sucks.

If you're in some pet alliance with no better space you will. The point is that even with a 600m/mo price on local nobody is going to refuse to install it in a system where people actually rat.

[Fix Lag]

If you're in some pet alliance with no better space you will.

I try to think of myself as smarter than the average idiot. One of the determinants of that when it comes to Eve Online is whether or not one belongs to a publord renter gimp-collective.

[Manfred Hideous]

I try to think of myself as smarter than the average idiot. One of the determinants of that when it comes to Eve Online is whether or not one belongs to a publord renter gimp-collective.

-.1 space really isn't quite as bad as it used to be. It's bad relative to the lowest trusec but worlds better than a few years ago.

[Mira Z]

If you're in some pet alliance with no better space you will. The point is that even with a 600m/mo price on local nobody is going to refuse to install it in a system where people actually rat.

The true price should really be the required activity level anyway - Making sure enough people are PvEing away to keep it online.

[tgr]

Honestly, linking it to ratting or mining level is just about the gayest idea I've seen yet, beyond the "make it cost 600m/month" idea. It's a convenience module more than anything else, not a strategic one. It's there to make life not suck all the dicks on the way to the parking lot for those amongst us who want to partake in the space empire sagas without going full-on wormhole grognard, we have wormholes for that already. And with my suggestion, we'd have NPC nullsec as well for those who want to pretend they're manly men amongst a bunch of fat neckbearded fucks. And as such it should be either free to use, or very cheap, like 1m/day cheap or less.

And if Grath wants to move his spacedicks around without being seen, then golly gee he can go shoot or hack the module in a non-NPC system and move his fleet through. We'd still be unable to tell how many faggots they have in any given NPC system, or in systems owned by people who don't like us.

"Free intel" problem solved.

[Manfred Hideous]

The only idea I've seen which is on the "nerf local" agenda which I can see not being a complete assfuck, is the "delay local until you uncloak from gatecloak" (not "cloaked = gone from local"). All the rest of them will imply that I'll most likely not be building a hulk and mining with it, because the effort of doing so outweighs the idea of just going "meh, done with fleet work for today, time to go back to crusader kings 2".

I'm still thinking that if we were to make any changes to "local", it would be to remove local from all of nullsec, but give sov holders the ability to replace it with an anchorable module which does more or less the same thing. That way there's an actual benefit to putting up sov somewhere, but it can be interdicted. People who do incursions to other people's space won't have the same benefit of it being their home terf. And NPC null would be without local, so those who are so desperate for small gang warfare can get their no-local on all they want.

I like the idea of a delay and the Idea Securitas put forth. Actually I really like the one he threw in.

[Grim]

I like the idea of a delay and the Idea Securitas put forth. Actually I really like the one he threw in.

Yeah, despite the dramatics of TGR and company a delayed local (~30s) would be way cool.

[tgr]

Yeah, despite the dramatics of TGR and company a delayed local (~30s) would be way cool.

And this has nothing to do with wanting to "move around fleets without being seen", as grath came up with, it literally just reeks of "I want to gank ratters and/or miners".

[Grim]

And this has nothing to do with wanting to "move around fleets without being seen", as grath came up with, it literally just reeks of "I want to gank ratters and/or miners".

Grath was being overly dramatic too with his "everyone sees me everywhere I go its not fair" routine. Active people in space should see hostile fleets active in their systems, and report it in intel to their compatriots. Thats not the issue.

With a slight delay in local people will probably know if an enemy force is active in their area, and have to work harder and be more alert to get additional info/avoid being ganked.

And yes, I am shameless in my desire to kill more ratters/miners when they wont form up to face roaming fleets.

[Mira Z]

Honestly, linking it to ratting or mining level is just about the gayest idea I've seen yet

Oh come on, it's not like keeping the ratting level high in core jewing systems is an issue.

Making it a module if you can just go ahead and install it everywhere means no real change, except for an added layer of entirely unnessecary complexity. That and the chance for industrialists to fleece alliances out some isk building the damn things.

Personally I like the idea that if you want to have a damn huge space empire then you're going to have trouble developing it as easily as a small compact one.

[Iratus]

And yes, I am shameless in my desire to kill more ratters/miners when they wont form up to face roaming fleets.

This is the part you fail to grasp.

They won't even form up to a fleet when there's full reinbursement... what makes you think they'll stick around nullsec when the chance of being ganked increases as much as it would with a local nerf? They are carebears and jews. They'll get ganked a few times and then switch back to their lvl4 grinding carreer (it's not like it's less entertaining than ratting) because of risk aversion. So you get two weeks of of fat killboards and a barren wasteland after that.

[tgr]

Oh come on, it's not like keeping the ratting level high in core jewing systems is an issue.

No, it's a gay link which makes no fucking sense. Linking it to sov level 1 makes sense.

Making it a module if you can just go ahead and install it everywhere means no real change, except for an added layer of entirely unnessecary complexity. That and the chance for industrialists to fleece alliances out some isk building the damn things.

Except it adds something which you can kill to annoy the locals, so if they get sufficiently annoyed they might even form up. Or they'll just use the normal defense and wait until you leave and rep it back up/install a new one.