Happy Eid-ul-Fitr 1429H

[k]

For those who celebrated Ied*, Happy Ied, may this year Ramadhan be a blessing and hopefully we all came out as a better person than before.

Let us learned from our mistakes and do our best in the next year to come. Bless you all.

Kugutsumen

* Eid ul-Fitr, or abbreviated simply as Eid, is a principal Islamic holiday that marks the end of Ramadan, the month of fasting. In Arabic, Fitr means "to break" and therefore symbolizes the breaking of the fasting period and of all evil habits. The holiday follows the month of Ramadan (usually October in the Gregorian calendar), falling on the first day of Shawwal (the tenth month in the Islamic calendar). As with all months in the Islamic calendar, it begins with the sighting of the new moon. For this reason there may be regional differences in the exact date of Eid, with some Muslims fasting for 29 days and some for 30 days.

[Propolis]

Honestly, this isn't an insult to you or your beliefs, how do you think that not eating during the day for 30 days is any good?

I am an atheist and personally I believe religion in general (not just islam) is just stupid. Belief in some sort of higher being, fair enough, but a set of rules which, at the end of the day, were created by a MAN (human) which "claimed" he spoke with God/Allah/whatever, and are just idiotic at times, just seems a bit silly to me.

Anyways, Happy Ied!

[Jake]

/me looking forward to the religion debate (shitfest) that is incoming

[theTwilitehour]

Honestly, this isn't an insult to you or your beliefs, how do you think that not eating during the day for 30 days is any good?

I am an atheist and personally I believe religion in general (not just islam) is just stupid. Belief in some sort of higher being, fair enough, but a set of rules which, at the end of the day, were created by a MAN (human) which "claimed" he spoke with God/Allah/whatever, and are just idiotic at times, just seems a bit silly to me.

Anyways, Happy Ied!

Symbolism.

[Berious]

Honestly, this isn't an insult to you or your beliefs, how do you think that not eating during the day for 30 days is any good?

I think the fasting is to focus your mind for some self-reflection. Something more people could do with. An unexamined life is not worth living and all that. You're also supposed to give to charity and stuff. Bit like new years resolutions but taken a lot more seriously.

Not a Muslim though so just guessing.

[Fartman]

how do you think that not eating during the day for 30 days is any good?

pretty sure its only during the day

[k]

Honestly, this isn't an insult to you or your beliefs, how do you think that not eating during the day for 30 days is any good?

Anyways, Happy Ied!

People start eating again right after dusk (around 6PM where I live) and they eat again right before dawn. Some people will go to bed at dawn or wake up half an hour before.

While the sun is up in the sky, no food, no water, no smoke, no drugs, no anger, no yelling and no sex

Fasting is an exercise in self-control and discipline. You're in control of your emotion, your body, etc.
Some of us have never known or completely forgotten what it is to be poor; hunger is a good reminder.

If your work or your health prevents you from fasting and if you are really wealthy, you are supposed to give food to poor people, orphans, etc... It is also the custom for employees to get a 13th month of salary.

Hunger and thirst completely override any craving or addiction. I managed to stop smoking 6 years ago during ramadhan;

I am a sufi muslim and the opposite of a pious person but I like Ramadhan. I believe that the only thing that match the definition of an omni(potent|scient|present) god is evolution/universal darwinism...

Most people are not really logical if not ignorant. It is easier to use superstition and religion. When I try to explain why people should not reuse password or use shitty passwords, people just nod and ignore me... but if I tell them it is bad luck or they will go to hell... then i get excellent results. I try to enforce the use of the seatbelt in my family... people didn't listen until I made a fatuah (religious edict) and now everyone follow my rule.

Imam Kugutsumen

[Berious]

Are you allowed to jerk off because holding it in for 30 days would be pretty harsh

[Slayton Ford]

I am a sufi muslim and the opposite of a pious person but I like Ramadhan.

Ok, coming from a American who is a non-practicing Catholic, maybe you can explain something to me. How is the sufi sect different then other forms of Islam (ie Wahhabi, Suni, Shia, etc).

Also, I once hear that although Indonesia is the worlds most populated muslim country, the only thing about fundamentalism that muslims are concerend with is the fun part. How true is this?

[Cippalippus]

Happy Eid-ul-Fitr!

On a related note, this will mean that the kebab house close to my office is going to be open again during lunch time The guy said that it's too painful to prepare food and not eat at the same time.

[evildotcom]

i fasted last year when my flatmate was doing it, its not easy

[Fig]

I remember reading somewhere that Muslims actually gain more weight during Ramadahn because once the sun goes down, the meals they do eat are loaded with carbs so they have enough energy to make it through the next day without going crazy. Just always thought that was an amusing little fact, if it is at all true.

[Rotor]

I kinda doubt it, I have muslim friends and it sucks because I can't eat with them or near them, or talk about sex or anything else...

[k]

I remember reading somewhere that Muslims actually gain more weight during Ramadahn because once the sun goes down, the meals they do eat are loaded with carbs so they have enough energy to make it through the next day without going crazy. Just always thought that was an amusing little fact, if it is at all true.

It's true but low carb diet are more and more popular... In Asia, they have a hard time giving up on rice though.

[k]

Ok, coming from a American who is a non-practicing Catholic, maybe you can explain something to me. How is the sufi sect different then other forms of Islam (ie Wahhabi, Suni, Shia, etc).

Also, I once hear that although Indonesia is the worlds most populated muslim country, the only thing about fundamentalism that muslims are concerend with is the fun part. How true is this?

Here are some notes from http://www.muslimhope.com/Sufis.htm:

Sufiism says that true religion is inner truth, not outer practice.

Strict Islamic Law and the five pillars of Islam are like a "schoolmaster" that Sufis say is fine for others, but they have gone beyond the need for it. Instead, Sufis follow books that other Muslims do not.

Kugu: in fact, there is a verse of the qu'ran in which Muhammad says that god prefers people who do good things around them than people who are complete assholes but respect all the rules... etc. I told that to my mother in law when she was challenging me saying that my wife wasn't a good muslim so I read her she that verse; the next day, she called for a religious council with the elders of the family and never challenged me again about religious. . Actually whenever I tell a fellow muslim that I am sufi they usually avoid talking with me about islam as they guess I know the qu'ran better than them.

People can be One with God is the key belief of Sufiism. Thus a Sufi who is "one with God" could be considered Allah himself, because he is one with Allah. This is similar to the heretical Christian mysticism of the Middle Ages, who emphasize experience and say they themselves could be God.

Kugu: as I said above ... I believe that evolution as in universal darwinism, life, genetic programming as in computer science is the only plausible thing around us that matches the definition of a god who's everywhere and can do everything...


Pleasure or Intoxicating experience is a distinctive of Sufiism. For some this means just an emotional experience. This is often compared to being drunk with wine, and other Sufis do drink wine and get drunk. Sufis can excuse the many references to wine and even taverns in their religion as being a metaphor for spiritual ecstasy. After all, even the hadiths say Muslims will drink wine in Heaven. However, many of them do believe it is OK to drink alcohol too. A few Sufi sects smoke Hashish as part of their religion, but the majority do not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism

I recommend this really cool book, The Sufies by Idries Shah and prefaced by Robert Graves (I, Claudius, The White Goddess, ...). The chapter entitled, "The Subtleties of Mulla Nasrudin" is a really fun read (my main eve character was called after mullai.)

http://rapidshare.com/files/13619485..._Shah.pdf.html or https://www.amazon.com/Sufis-Idries-Shah/dp/0385079664

[Carebear]

Ok, coming from a American who is a non-practicing Catholic, maybe you can explain something to me. How is the sufi sect different then other forms of Islam (ie Wahhabi, Suni, Shia, etc).

Also, I once hear that although Indonesia is the worlds most populated muslim country, the only thing about fundamentalism that muslims are concerend with is the fun part. How true is this?

I think the Quran is standard book all muslims beleive in, but after the Quran, different people long after the event created or wrote different books baised on whatever helped their method of rule or understanding or agenda. All these different sects are baised upon stuff that was written long after the Quran, and quite often, are the complete reverse of the Quran, just like you get sects of christianity. (so those talaban guys who say they follow God's will are like those KKK guys who think they are promoting god's will - both are religious nutters). So the stuff you see on media is not anything to do with islam, its more to do with some book some political guy's wrote 300 years after the quran

My old professor converted to islam from Roman Catholic due to a lot of scientifical biblical errors not existing in the muslim faith (e.g evolution theory, speed of light, age of earth, life existing on earth before Adam & eve, life on other worlds etc)

Its worthwhile reading up, even if you never plan to become a muslim, since its intresting stuff, especially on their views of Jesus.

[theTwilitehour]

Its worthwhile reading up, even if you never plan to become a muslim, since its intresting stuff, especially on their views of Jesus.

Sunni and Shia actually believe that different people were "heirs" to being the Caliph of the Muslim religion. Sufi's are not distinct from these two branches (which might be likened to the catholic vs protestant split in some ways, although it was a question of personality as opposed to a question of faith vs acts) but rather take a more mystical bent, and believe they can move closer to divinity in this life through various practices, a sort of self transformation. The poet Rumi is pretty famous and an approachable way to get a glimmer of the Sufi faith.

On a personal note, I find it amusing you choose to post ignorantly on something where so much data is easily available, you'd rather just say whatever you believe to be true rather than do any referencing of data and source checking to make sure you're right. I guess you're the equivalent of fox news for us here at Kugutsumen though.

[Carebear]

Sunni and Shia actually believe that different people were "heirs" to being the Caliph of the Muslim religion. Sufi's are not distinct from these two branches (which might be likened to the catholic vs protestant split in some ways, although it was a question of personality as opposed to a question of faith vs acts) but rather take a more mystical bent, and believe they can move closer to divinity in this life through various practices, a sort of self transformation. The poet Rumi is pretty famous and an approachable way to get a glimmer of the Sufi faith.

On a personal note, I find it amusing you choose to post ignorantly on something where so much data is easily available, you'd rather just say whatever you believe to be true rather than do any referencing of data and source checking to make sure you're right. I guess you're the equivalent of fox news for us here at Kugutsumen though.

If you read what I wrote, you would note that I said about stuff that came about "baised on whatever helped their method of rule or understanding or agenda".

Not saying that its right or wrong, since after all, a Roman Emperor created the beginnings of what is the catholic church today. King Henry declared himself head of Protestant church when the catholic church declined to let him divorce his frence wife (then was due to the political scenario, as french king would take it as a insult and the pope was almost hostage to the French king at that time)

Anyhow point is simple. A lot of sect's exist in all religions and some sects might be nutters (e.g KKK sect of Christianity for example), but that does not mean that the actual religion itself is full of nutters.

Unless what you mean is that everyone is a nutter?

[Princess Guard]

I don't mean to offend anyone's religion with my ignorance, but I was taught that Sufi's were like the Jesuits of Islam, and in fact Jesuits borrow some concepts outright from Sufi mysticism. Or something. It's been awhile since I cared.

[akira117]

Religion/Mythology is stupid.

I think you should have something better to do with your time.

[peon]

Fasting for 30 days during daytime is good for you if you're slightly obese.

Also I (still) think that religions are somewhat irrelevant, it's the belief itself that matters. Certainly religions may offer a channel to express your belief in higher power/whatever, but religion itself is unfortunately stand alone system which in some cases can devour in people who are mostly just corrupt or weak and have nothing to do with the belief.

[Agathor]

Few years back in rehab , I tok what made sence for me from that AA book.
Forgive everybody that had done wrong to me helped me the most...

So religion has its up sides , to bad that most people use it to there personal gain. Money or power.

Insane ramblings of a madman has become the crowd control...
The crowd control that has lasted for 2000 years.

Mind you it was sponsored by the roman emperors and they cleverly put a man under there control as the head of that religion. The Pope.

I wonder if kugu will admit that Islam was founded basically on the old testament, therefor its a brance of Judaism.

[Vinata]

I don't mean to offend anyone's religion with my ignorance, but I was taught that Sufi's were like the Jesuits of Islam, and in fact Jesuits borrow some concepts outright from Sufi mysticism. Or something. It's been awhile since I cared.

I doubt Jesuits borrow anything from other religions. A lot of what Jesuits have been doing since the Inquisition is making up for the mistakes they made. Catholicism received quite a shock when they found out that some of their literal interpretations of the Bible were incorrect, and the Church found itself forced to either deny facts or to recognize that humans can never truly correctly interpret the word of God. Currently Catholicism is (as remarked by a Lutheran friend of mine) the most progressive and regressive branch of Christianity due to their beliefs in theistic evolution (supported by scientific fact) and the idea that birth control is murder (supported by an interpretation of a vague verse that most Protestant groups believe says birth control is ok but abortion isn't) Because of the role the Jesuits had in the Inquisition they've dedicated themselves to seeking the truth of the world as it relates to the truth of the word, and are some of the most educated religious people in the world. I'm agnostic and I'd rather have a Jesuit teacher than a secular one. Jesuits have a religious drive to know and spread the truth as it is, and not as it is interpreted.

It is late(?) and I am not completely sober, so I may have fucked up some/a lot of that up. Jesuits are my favorite types of devout Christians and the Sufi seem like pretty cool Muslims (a religion I know nothing about).


As for religion being stupid, it has its reasons for continued existence. For some people the idea that there is a loving and caring deity overlooking the universe and making things (both good and bad) happen for a reason is comforting. For some people it is the only thing that lets them sleep at night.

[Carebear]

I wonder if kugu will admit that Islam was founded basically on the old testament, therefor its a brance of Judaism.

I think just like the bible is the next part which comes after the old testement, the muslims beleive that the Quran is the next part that comes after the bible. I.E Judism -> Christianity -> Islam .

I guess you can add Zorocastroism (or however its spelt) to the list of monothestic religions as well.

So I think I would be right if I said that all these Abraham religions kind of follow on from each other. Only Christians and Muslim's Beleive in Jesus though, so I would not exactly call it a extention of Judism.

[Propolis]

pretty sure its only during the day

Wow, please re-read my post a few times. I mean, its not like i did clearly say "not eating during the day for 30 days"


Nice little discussion so far anyways.

[Vinata]

I think just like the bible is the next part which comes after the old testement, the muslims beleive that the Quran is the next part that comes after the bible. I.E Judism -> Christianity -> Islam .

I guess you can add Zorocastroism (or however its spelt) to the list of monothestic religions as well.

So I think I would be right if I said that all these Abraham religions kind of follow on from each other. Only Christians and Muslim's Beleive in Jesus though, so I would not exactly call it a extention of Judism.

None of the Abrahamic religions believe the ones that come after them contain any truth at all, from what I've been able to tell.

[k]

I like the Tao Te King.

[Hubris [banned]]

haaaaaaa i am going to torcher you now!!!!!!

[Agathor]

Dam you kugu !!! making me google stuff and learn shit lol :P

nice evasion by the way hehe.

[k]

it is night here already you fail.

[Carebear]

None of the Abrahamic religions believe the ones that come after them contain any truth at all, from what I've been able to tell.

Indeed, but they do beleive in concepts of the previous one. E.G Christians beleive in jewish concepts and that jeudism was the correct religion for that previous time period. Muslims beleive in christian concepts and that christanity was the correct religion for that previous time period.

I think what confuses a lot of people is the Catholic church legalising Pork and booze (and human flesh for the first crusaders) etc, even though the bible forbid it. This happened after the original christain sects though.

So what is the correct religion if any? Well, nobody knows, but you can avoid false ones. Just read up on all of them and then remove any that is not scientifically accurate (baised on fact rather than science theory - e.g sun is not a chariot or dragon etc etc)