I'm trying to write something that I'm not sure my english can bend into, since it's not my native language. But I'll try my best, please bare with me.
I want to correct a serious misunderstanding we have against Goonfleet. We are fueling their war machine, that works totally opposite that conventional force in EVE has in past worked. Goonfleet lives out of controversy, your misery, flaming e-honor and making good manners their own personal joke. Something Awful, is the best site in the world for controversial humor and that is where they recruit 99% of their pilots in newbie drives they uphold. What is important to understand is that they are kinda like ultimate capitalistic sociecty that likes to hang with each other, forcing those out who dosn't fit their humoristical model. That includes, making fun of everything possible, without boundaries.
Few examples to give you perspective. Last night we killed "their" carrier. We laughed at its fit in local for them. Any normal corp would be ashamed due that fit, that was very horrible. If it was any other corp in eve, that would have damaged their fighting moral. But in goonfleets case, our smack and that carriers bad fit was turned into a benefit, instantly. They smacked their own carrier pilot twice harder than we could have ever done. In their eyes, he was an idiot who never deserved to play in goonfleet. A guy who can't read FAQs, guy who can't fit a fucking carrier. A guy who should be playing in LV so people would aid him and give him support(in their opinion), not a GF member who should read FAQs, understand game mechanics and play well if he intends to fly such ship. Thus our smack hurt them none, it gave us idea that all GF carriers are fitted that way, but infact, he was most likely someone who was not too liked in GF in the first place, poor sob who tried to act as usefull entity of the hive, but failed in it. No one bothered to even check if his fit was combat ready and now hes laughing stock of the whole alliance. Ofcourse shooting the carrier gains us advantage. They lose resources, they lose isk, killing a ship especially cap ship provides US with benefit. But we can instantly LOSE that benefit if we try to make fun off it, since they out of all people can make it look like good for their alliance, instead of bad thing. Becouse we let them. Becouse we INTERACT with them. Do not interact with them, do not comment in local, just shoot. I will explain why, just keep on reading.
Reason why GF loves t1 frigs and cruisers, is not that they could not or does not have ISK to play any better, but the fact that if you play with better gear,
you are expected to know how to use it, to the point of perfection. These guys drive from beign good, abusing others and making fun of everything, including their own members who do not fit into "good player" gategory. That forces their members to learn the game fast, and well. No one in GF want's to be the idiot who their friends laugh at.
Why they call their members spacejews, hitlers, why remedial likes ham so much, becouse hes fat fuck and naming their stations after world war 2 consentration camps is due just to the fact that they absolutely love to hurt feelings. To them, you are playing a internet spaceship game and taking it too seriously, getting all offended about nothing. That is the goonfleets biggest foult, they are double facing even to each other. At the same time when they laugh at us holding such matters such as fair play and political corectness important in internet spaceship game, they themself spend countless of hours playing the same internet spaceship game.
See the double moral standards here? They laugh at people playing with "honor and integerity" while at same, on the background demanding exactly same from their own members who play countless of hours of the same game as those do who hold that "honor and integerity".
Goonfleet is ultra capitalistic in its gameplay. They don't subsitutede their own members, they even demand isk for own corp mates scouting from system to system, saying its a good way for newb to make isk. They demand alot and if you fail in gameplay, they make you an living example of "sucker", without remorse that we have used to give to those players who make mistakes. Making mistakes, is allowed for those who fly shit, aka basic t1 fitted cruisers and frigates, since they don't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. What is important for Goonfleet is that those, the "MASS" of goonfleet logs in for every major fight their have, for fun. That gives their the number advantage, but the point is that their MASS does not log in, if they are not provided with something to laugh at. Their community works in the fact that they can laugh at other people and if there is no other people to laugh at, they will joke about each other or flame their own members in their various chat channels.
Shit absolutely has to be fun in GF all the time.
That leads to important point to understand. When you petition them for spamming stupid shit in local, when you talk with them in local, you interact with them, you are providing their MASS of players something to laugh at, something that makes them community, something that they think is fun and they are making you mad and angry over and internet game, aka they think they are succeeding in their act of ...
griefing.
Last night of "omgz, goons lag us" crated ultimate momentum inside goonfleet MASS to log in, since they think: "lol at those LV faggoooots, they take this soooo seriously, I will be here tomorrow just make them feel bad again, lolol, btw, you are a fat space jew lol"
You don't belive me? Straight from the space general bullshit, convo between Remedial and GM you called in last night:
Quote:
GM Sunshine > Good evening
Remedial > Hi there, what's up
GM Sunshine > We have been recieving several petitions regarding your members spamming local during combat
GM Sunshine > and we would like you to stop this this instant
Remedial > Totally false. We only fofofo one line each, and only after we win a battle
GM Sunshine > regardless
Remedial > If you check the chatlogs compared to LV killmails, you'll see that I am telling the truth
GM Sunshine > stop this
Remedial > I also don't control every single goon in GoonSwarm. I typed fofofo and then everybody else did
GM Sunshine > you are there figure head and leader, if you are unable to get them to do stop this, then who is?
Remedial > Well, you could always go to the offenders and talk to them personally rather than holding me accountable every time a goonswarm member gets petitioned
Remedial > I mean, I just love having a GM tell me to stop 2500 different players from performing an action
Remedial > But it's pretty much beyond my control. I don't even have a mic on TS right now
Remedial > Really you should probably just delete local entirely, as that's clearly why LV is losing the war in Detorid
GM Sunshine > local chat and LV's ability is not up for discussion here, your members behaviour is
GM Sunshine > let's stick to that
Remedial > Ok: you are a GM, I'm some fat guy on the internet in charge of a SPACE GUILD. I think you should go to people who break rules and bust their balls, not mine. I don't get to enforce rules because you know, fat guy on the internet.
Remedial > So when somebody renames a station to DEAD FAGGOTS or somebody screams "SMOSKE SUCKS" in #BobChat or somebody spams local with Fofofo, I really shouldn't be the person you convo.
GM Sunshine > you may not run the internet, but for all intents and purposes, you run Goonswarm
Remedial > Ok, I'll post a thread telling people not to spam fofofo on Eve-O.
GM Sunshine > how you get your members to stop this is not my concern, just do it
Remedial > Ok, so if "my guys" keep doing it, does that mean you're going to ban my account for non-compliance with an impossible order?
Remedial > Or will you just start gagging offenders in local so they can't spam
Remedial > PS voting option #2
GM Sunshine > I will not warn you for this in any way or form
GM Sunshine > regardless if you do comply this time or not
Remedial > Living up to your name every day, sweetcheeks!
GM Sunshine > but your actions will affect future decisions
Remedial > I'd like to elevate this complaint please
Remedial > Can I talk to your manager?
Remedial > Is he wearing a nametag?
Remedial > Or like a special hat or something
GM Sunshine > you can file a petition
Remedial > Should I file it under stuck?
GM Sunshine > you can do that
Remedial > I love you GM Sunshine, you're my favorite GM in this chatroom
GM Sunshine > considering I'm the only GM in here, I'll take that with a pinch of salt
Remedial > /emote takes off his shirt.
Remedial > 16/m/FL
Remedial > u??
GM Sunshine > Immortal, male, Game masters
Remedial > /emote puts on his robe and wizard hatt.
Remedial > /emote massages ur master.
Remedial > OH GOD BEES BEES GET THEM OFF
You just gave them another reason to be proud of their alliance leader. Hes calling GM a faggot and hes doign it right by the boundaries of EVE rules. Hes not getting banned, hes playing right on the spot here.
Remedial then proceeds to post this on their forums, making him look like a hero in their eyes. AKA the funniest guy on the fucking internet, while making LV looking like whiny fucks who deserve all the grief and fucking around. You are making sure that their MASS will log on next day becouse we gave them EXACTLY what they need, Fun in local, Fun ingame, a Society where they can laugh others. You managed to play into their hands exactly like they wanted. Why?
Becouse you did not understand who you are fighting against.
For them, the laughter of anything is the best shit they can get ingame. You showing them stuff like "gf" in local, you trying to respect them, you trying to hate them, or post something in EVE-O or in local, makes them think they are doign the right thing. You start to care what they think of you. Do not fall into this pit.
There is nothing you can say in local or eve-o that they could not make fun at. If their member fails in something, dies in gatecamp or has noob fit or says something stupid, they will just make more fun of that member internally. Each time you call them fags or blobbers or newbs, they will just laugh and think "gos, that guy is so fucking arrogant and I make him sad and think I'm useless by beign here... YES THATS BTW EXACTLY WHAT I WANT!!!, gonna log in tomorrow too to fag these guys up!"
How the fuck do you fight goonfleet then if they are acting like this then?
It is infact, much more easier than you would have ever realized.
1. Ignore them in local. Do not write there. Do not read it. Do not comment on them. Do not laugh at their fits, do not be fooled into thinking they have something to "lose". If some of them play bad, ignore it, since if you make fun of that member, it will just fuel their internal machine of making fun of that player, forcing their other members to play twice better. When 300 people are laughing how fucking idiot someone is, making example of one of their own members as laughingstock of bad gameplay, it teaches others VERY FAST to be fuck good. No one wants to play bad and become example of shit in their own community. Each time we expose some of their noobs play like shit, rest of their noobs run to their eve-Wikipedia/eve-o faqs to learn more about the game so they don't make the same mistake and end up as loser-guy in their alliance.
2. Do not give a fuck about their childless acts. Just petition them in silence and give them NO COMMENTARY to act on. The GM will deal with it, you have no reason to get involved, you have NO REASON to care about them. Just petition and ignore them. Let the guns speak, and only the guns. MAke sure you petition about RIGHT matters too. Petitioning someone for a 24 hour ban for bad language, DOES not hurt GF as alliance, it will make that person a hero in their eyes and LV something to fag over even more. Shoot em! Don't give them something to act on.
3. Goonfleet lives on fact that somethign to "FAG" is constantly happening. After our primetime is over, having some fleet trying to do "something" in the system will just make them intrested. "LOL LOOK AT LOSERVOLTERRA, we have 300:1 advantage AND THEIR EHONOR MAKES THEM SIT IN POS BOUBBLE WHILE WE FAG THE GATEEES!!!!" To counter this, leave the fucking system in US TZ, if there is nothing you can do against thier numbers. Go shoot their carebears in KZF, go fuck them around, making them feel miserable of sitting in a dull fucking system, shooting POS's that are boosted back to full or replaced on our primetime. Make them do that for a fucking month of boredom and you will see GF shaking in its foundations. Give them smack or something to laugh at on local while they camp a shitty gate. Lose ships on their gatecamps, giving them activity is even more retarded. Making them fire a single shot, makes a night worthwhile for their "MASS". Read this like: "OMGAZ WE MANAGED TO FUCK UP SOMEONE LOOL".
Do not give them free kills.
4. Attacking them in small gangs in KZF, 1v- miners and their ratting grounds when we are not holding our systems (early before our primetime, late into US timezone) will create chaos in their ranks and frustration. That will force them to not to be able to CYCLE their four 400 man strong SQUADS daily into ISK making and back into station camp, wearing them down faster than anything else. And same rules apply, do not read local, do not give them "GF's, aka good fights", ACT like they would not be there. Act like they are fucking RAT NPCS you pop and mole looking for next bounty. That will aggravate them more than anything else. Fuck, leaving AFK covert ops in their best ratting systems creates an internal whine worth of 100 cruiser kills.
5. During our primetime, do not give them advantage. As LV member, ALWAYS be there to boost our POS's, in the best equipment you have. Make sure that they will not fucking touch our dreadnaughts or carriers or T2 BS Fleet with UNIMAGENARY casulties from their side.
1500EVT-0100EVT HAS TO BE OURS. Be online, be in your best shit and fight like no tomorrow. That is the time we boost our POS's, shoot theirs into reinforced and make fucking sure NO FORCE IN EVE ONLINE is able to even fuckign think of taking our shit down. After our primetime ends, go out and harash their flanks, harash their isk machine and do not give them single fucking free kill. NPC them like they would be rats. Make them sit at the fucking pos shooting at it in their imagenary gatecamps.
This is what I have to say, and belive me, I'm fucking right. Stop giving them shit that they think is fun. Start ignoring their flamebaits and think them as RATS. NPC rats don't reply back if you flame them, and if you don't reply to them, they will lose intrest.
Put a fucking round of 1200 arties or 425 antimatter through their fucking useless hulls and ignore everything else they do to aggravate you and this war is ours. Give their mass of players a reason to think "lol-this-is-fun-cockfaggotry", they will all be online tomorrow again.
cflux out.
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This is all fine and well saying this, and mostof it is true, however i think you could have put this a little less demanding, you can interact with enemies ands till play the game to the best of our ability, goonswarm a people, like us, they do the same as us and they get their own kicks the same as us, just because you or any other person does not approve of the way they do things thats too bad because other people may well think the same of you, they are following their nature, this view of other alliances especially goonswarm being less than human and to be treated differently to what they are, which is bored humans paying real money to play a game and wanting to get their moneys worth is wrong to take, let them do whatever they want and just play the damn game, dont try and ban other people from talking in local it will never work especially if you are talking about their morale, if you smack them they say yeah whatever blah blah and then die, if you ignore them they say oh you cant think of anything to say haha we just pwnt you in words and they still get their kicks, you wont change that, local is as i have maintained for 3 years, a channel that was invented and put into the game soley for the purpose of talking in, you can sit and speak to enemies and still be civil, smacktalk is wrong but general chat there is nothing wrong with, as someone on ts put yesterday very well, "i pay 35 quid for this game and if i want to talk i shall, as long as it is not offensive or rude i shall do what i want" Cyvvok was and still is taken the piss out of on the Eve-O forums for attempting to "blacklist" or "put down" people who did things he didnt like, stopping people play the game the way they play, people try to hard to make LV look like some glorious honour uplifting godlike guild of ancient swordsmen who silently take the world by storm and could kill you with one evil stare, you only see that in movies, in reality we are all a great bunch of pvpers who dont care what anybody else has to say because we will still shoot the shit out of them, we occasionally get bored and like to talk to our enemies because they are just playing the game like us, and not all are as bad as the fat fuck remedial, he is extremely cheeky and i agree with you someone should tell him not to shut the fuck up in local, but to pipe down with the cheek, but i have never seen an LV pilot make us look like him, if you take the piss out of them they may shrug it off, thats a good thing, it shows that they are human, but at the end of the day this IS a computer game and not real life, you getting as wound up about this as you are doing is also playing into their hands and is what they want, it causes chaos and rifts internally with LV when we all start arguing about what we should or shouldnt do with what we pay real money for, which we cant afford to have, if you dont want to read smack dont read local yourself, i have seen people in authoritive positions in LV smack a lot, and then tell other people not to, just let people do what they want and get on with killing goons, we cant afford to stop and take internal rifts now we are facing all of the enemies in eve and have no friends alliance wise
i do however immensely agree with you that remedial is a fat bastard and that we should let the guns speak, just not completely for us
none of the above is meant to be abusive or negative towards the poster, just my 2 cents, as we really cannot afford to be having internal rifts and people getting pissed off with other alliance members right now while we are about to take the survival test, just get your HB pencils and knuckle down
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Indeed. You are very right. There should be no abuse towards any LV player if he wants to smack. As you very well say, we each pay for this game, this is still just a game and we gotta have our fun. So I definetly do not want any argument with smacking or not smacking, more than if you insist on smacking, it better be fucking good smack - and the smack has to be made while knowing what smack does inside GF and how it works. When you know how your opponent reacts, you can actually make smack that can possibly hurt them a little, making less positive sideffects in their community.
I just wanted to express, what actually happens inside goonfleet, so that people know what their actions leads to, not that certain action would be "wrong".
I out of all people, consider Eve just to be a game, but what I do not consider fun is LV members not beign up to date how our opponent works, since that makes the game annoying to play, when not everyone is up to date how opponets work inside. This leads to ignorance and ignorance leads to failure. Atleast in my opinion, you gotta know what your enemy is like from the inside. Alot of good people make their actions and acts not based on knowledge, but due past experiences. Idea of this post is to explain why past experience does not work that well against Goonfleet, giving people a new viewpoint on the matters.
Now I hope, that was point of my post, that our guys get a view inside goonfleet, so they know how its like. Nothing more, nothing less.
Hell, I'm myself known to be ruthless local smacker to the point Klezz often gags me with a sharp convo saying, "cflux, you have one fucking second to shut the fuck up or I will pod your sorry ass". (he has 40msp over my 20mps and his fits pwn mine, so fuck you klezz! u bully!)
So my intention was not to make LV inhumane warmachine, but to give people a viewpoint, what goes inside that hostile alliance that is knocking our doors. I think its important. Giving out rules and limits to our players, was not my intention.
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Agreed. Though, you do give them too much credit. They cannot turn every failure into celebration and this will be terribly evident soon enough. Being noobs, they can rejoice over the simple ganks and such that many of our senior members no longer get a rush out of.
Also, I absolutely love how hard Remedial acts online. lol I told 'em in local I'd like to go out to lunch with him if he's ever in town, and I'm dead serious. I'd get a real kick out of it.
Mittani, convince him to come to Gainesville!
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Excellent analysis of some teenagers unwilling to grow up.
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on a side note, they name their POS's after concentration camps??? is that for real! surly they cant get away with that??
They didn't get away with that, it was petitioned (scalding pass, kzf was the station I think) and then later changed to "remedials concentration camp" and even that was petitioned and changed. I just used it as a reference.
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I would be perfectly happy never saying a word to Goons in local if it denies them their kicks. And since we know there are spies reading our boards, it might not hurt to keep the comments on our own forums neutral and factual, instead of something emotionally-charged that they can feed on.
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COMMON GUYS!!!!
Lets start playing the PRO-GAME again.
LET THEM FEAR US
LET THEM START LOOSING FUN.
KILL THEM.....DONT SMACK THEM., OR EVEN TALK TO THEM
God damit......we are LV. Lets fuck them up with LV-style.
God damit......in 2 month after this war is over, I want to say to BoB "who are u?"
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Sort of related to this, I am wondering if it would be better in the long run to take our time winning the DG/OW thing. I suspect that they don't really have the patience for a month long back and forth, especially if we keep up the pressure in their home systems during US TZ.
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Agreed, in all Points.
And Chalsto, if we have a 0 local talk/enemy talk policity, HOW you wanna aks BoB who they are
Thanks to Cflux for this very good Post, if it wasnd the best if ever read i am sure it was the longest one
About the roaming gangs after our Prime time, i allways loved smaller Squad Warfare instead of POS sitting, anyway.
Thats really a strategy i like.
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A great post and in fact some very good constructive discussion.
I take no interest in local other than to count hostiles and as a member of LFC I dont talk in local if a hostile is present and Smack is for those with no IQ its the LFC way.
I think that just killing them pettitioning them when they exploit or break the rules is the way to go and to ignore their stupidity will hurt them.
As to meeting remedial for lunch, I have been in a restaurant with Remedial in close proximity and was definatly put off my food. I have to thank those that reminded me he was not worth giving a good kicking too as they were right he is only worthy of my contempt and should be ignored.
Silence apart from the roar of my guns is how we shall defeat the goons
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Great post cflux. I agree with your conclusions and suggestions for how to treat Goons. Ignoring them completely and no interaction.
The first part of your post - how your think the Goons are, think and operate - is disturbing me deeply. Even if you are only 75% correct, I simply cannot put my mind to that kind of thinking and behavior.
It disgusts me and bring me memories of the RL scumbags I have come across in my life. My reaction to those has been to turn my back and walk away in disgust. I will not walk away from this as we have a job to do in LV, but if I followed my feelings about this, I would have no interaction at all with such lamers, not even shoot or kill them.
Sure, most of them are probably kids or got a mindset of a kid, but I'm worried that a large part of the EVE players in general have that kind of mindset. Wondering what kind of game I'm playing here in EVE, disturbing.
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Originally Posted by Subject: EWWWW 7 Dreads lost 1 killed ? Maybe 15 dreads lost
So what happend .. ???
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