*Ouch*
I mean, even given that the holders were a little outclassed....ouch
*Ouch*
I mean, even given that the holders were a little outclassed....ouch
We knew what the end result would be, but the opportunity to face one of the best was an experience many of us have been hoping for since you guys moved into Nakah. It's the only way we'll learn and get our acts together. The best part is the magnanimity shown by the victors. Looking forward to more fights with you.Originally Posted by John Caffeine
Just had a great fight with CVA and the other Providence Holders. Huge props to you guys for bringing a proper fight and having the balls to put caps on field. I hope the result will be more even next time, I fear our fleet was a bit too top-heavy considering the support fleet you guys had, but good show regardless.
http://rooksandkings.com/killboard/?...d&kll_id=38161
I'm not gonna write a battlereport, but I'm sure someone will post one on Failheap, and I'd love to see one from the CVA perspective.
Mistakes were made.Not a single loss for your side ?
More accurately our caps jumped in a bit late - one in particular had taken a toilet break just as the enemy gang jumped to us. By the time they got on field our sub-caps had already taken a pounding. Also while we had been baiting I don't think our FC quite expected what eventually landed on us (especially the DPS put out by the Bhalgorns)...
Personally (as I was in the subcap fleet) I had no idea that Roooks and Kings were involved as we (subcap fleet) were just told we were baiting Pure Madness. Apparently other people knew that Rooks and Kings were working with Pure Madness due to a drop earlier in the day. If I had known that Rooks & Kings were involved then would have recommended more caution
Basically we got schooled by the best hotdrop team in the game...
Fraps or it never happend gentlemen
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
as requested:Fraps or it never happend gentlemen
[spoiler=spoiler your videos, some ppl have nosy bosses]
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=fake edit:]
just jealous because i was not there
[/spoiler]
Damn. I was so bored in game on Saturday I didn't log yesterday. OTOH, I'd probably have lost a pest I can't afford to replace right now.
Got this on eve kill. Same R&K and pure madness fleet beat another fleet from provi block few hours earlier of the engagement you guys are talking about:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=14384240
As I said:
Personally (as I was in the subcap fleet) I had no idea that Roooks and Kings were involved as we (subcap fleet) were just told we were baiting Pure Madness.Apparently other people knew that Rooks and Kings were working with Pure Madness due to a drop earlier in the day.
Fraps or it never happend gentlemen
Also several new posts on PRN, mostly cva videos from July + PDDC joining CVA announcement.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[ 2010.10.10 04:06:20 ] Easley Thames > GUYS DO NOT SHOOT CVA --- FOLLOW PRIMARIES
[ 2010.10.10 04:06:26 ] Easley Thames > (never thought i'd say that)
http://myanimelist.net/profile/rovern88
http://providenceregion.blogspot.com/
Just had a 'good fight' with -A-
Or primarily drake gang of around 80 went on a roam and bumped into a SoCo fleet of around 150.
We retreated a jump and FC decided we would stay and fight it out.
First part of the fight actually went very well for us with our reps apparently holding and SoCo ships dying regularly. Then -A- dropped in a few triage carriers and things took a turn for the worse...
Numbers wise we got pwned but the Machariel kill (god knows what that pilot was thinking) went some way to equalising the ISK deficit.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=14404809
Was fun...
OMG That mach fit!
I am really hoping this is a newer toon that at the last minute decided to join in his pve ship. Make of few changes and off you go. But...pve ships dont do well in pvp usually. Especially where the character doesnt really have the skills to fit it properly.
Lesson learned?
Reason why that same ppl should had advise caution into using caps on that fight, not that caps aren't easy replaceble, but loosing a dread or carrier isn't the same as a Bs.
To some people they are the same, and some education systems taught us that every space career starts with being at the receiving end of quite a few relentless spankings.
The difference between "fail" and "honourable" is a thin line : if you are the fc of a dread gang whose pilots have been flying together for a while in general (but are a bit rusty in using combined cap/subcap fleets) and you also know they will not cry about a big loss despite the fact that your adversaries will most likely leave no room for mistakes, then you can go for it nevertheless for "the learning experience".
As an fc i would have run away on hearing that RnK are involved, because ppl don't trust me anyway and it would nail the final 12 inch into my rather voluminous coffin.
As a fleet member however i'd have no problem suiciding a dread with this lot. Mainly because i love flying with them, and because isk and pride don't matter to me, unlike to others apparently that were not there and are now giving hindsight advise on the forums. (which is my domain, goddammit, get off my turf).
lol
One would hope lessons were learned but even as a PVE ship, it's dumb. I can fit every battleship I can fly with T-2 guns. I've used T1 while the skills were training but never ever a faction BS. Not even a fleet phoon because it's just too damned expensive as a hull not to spend the extra isk (or training time) to get it properly fitted.
Now that I've said this, I'm sure I'll be moving one of my three year old ships around and get popped before I realized I was dual tanked and had long and short range hybrids on a ruppy.
So I killed some CVA the other day. They're still bad :c
You'd think EVE would learn the lesson that NRDS simply does. not. work.
Now, GDSI is a life style I can live by (green do smoke it).
Nope.
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Explain "work". You might easily have said you killed -A- peeps so NBSI doesn't work, either.
The fact of CVA being the oldest Alliance in game and in control of an entire region in EVE should be enough to prove that NRDS can work. It gives hard work and is a diplomatic nightmare but it does work.
You seem to be confusing lack of combat efficiency with Diplomatic approach.The casual game play style that rules in CVA leads to the 1st one, even if in some days when the right people are online, at the same hour, and the planetary alignment is correct, you can have a really nasty surprise when facing a CVA fleet.
Regarding the NRDS policy, it's a success since a ton of corps and alliances experienced the taste of 0.0 in Providence. A lot of FC's and PVP players started their careers in Providence, all granted by this CVA policy.
One thing is certain, CVA might not be at the moment what was a few years ago, even if recently they seem to be increasing their activity with roaming gangs departing from Providence on a regular basis, but they are the living proof that NRDS works, and will probably be working when CCP shuts down Tranquility.
Vague blathering doesn't support your assertion.
Link or it never happened.
CVA's survival is largely due to Providence being a shithole. To dust off an old chestnut, "we didn't want that region anyway". They've been displaced multiple times, and usually move back in when the evicter leaves the area out of boredom. It's really down to them RPing as the masters of a crappy region that they have managed to retain a semblance of... anything.
That said, all power to them for continuing with NRDS - they must really enjoy RPing to put up with that shitty RoE and I wish them all the best with it. They at least seem to be having fun in EVE
The ROE is really what makes it more fun. While it sometimes sucks not being able to shoot first, we do have plenty to shoot at.
I've only been in CVA a month but I have yet to see any real RP going on.
I was about to reply to those posts, but I see you already did it for me. NRDS doesn't work. NRDS makes you a laughing stock (which is what CVA is) to the other big players in EVE. It screams, "Hey! I'm weak but have lots of space and money! Come kill my caps! Also come gank our renters and blues! We can't shoot your obviously-innocent-no-harm-meant-seriously roaming gang until we see you pull some shit so come to our space and kill us today! We're sure you need that dictor and pilgrim for PVE!" When people see an alliance adopt NRDS their usual reaction is "lol, NRDS."
[CENTER][SIZE=7]SMOKE [COLOR=#008000]WEED[/COLOR] EVERY [COLOR=#008000]DAY [/COLOR][/SIZE]
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Wrong friend. They have proven before that they do not need Providence to exist and have trusted allies.
Even if they would loose Providence again and were never able to reclaim it they would still have more fun playing this game then 99% of the groups out there.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
And yet we enjoy it well enough. Since it works for us in providing a framework that makes out gameplay enjoyable, it does work. Providence is a great place for new players and older but casual players to hang out.
LOL you called us rich.
Pretty much this. I was very critical of Aralasis' use of the Fabian strategy in a video game but his idea ended up not only working but being replicated by the SC (and worked for them as well). I wanted FCON to remain near Provi but I didn't like the idea of not fighting that overwhelming force. I was totally wrong in my belief.
Late Edit.
Wrote Hardin instead of Aralis. I don't know why since I know it was Aralis' policy. Corrected.
I still stand corrected on the rightness of the strategy. It actually did work.
The whole RP and CVA thing is just something that has attached itself to them seemingly over the years. It is a popular thing for people to mock CVA for, much akin to people saying Test is bad at Eve, -A- is shit and Goons can only blob. None of these things is actually really true when it comes down to the wire, it's just something enemies and third parties throw out when discussing these groups.
[ 2013.05.11 03:30:09 ] Jace Vorrin > THEMICK MCCOY SENDS HIS REGARDS :smug:
Confirming having lots of space and money, losing caps, and having renters/blues ganked in their space are traits that apply only to NRDS. Share the crack.
He also said you had renters
But yes, regardless of what you think of CVA or their military capability or their reason for existing, I don't think one can doubt the value that having an NRDS 0.0 region has provided. Many people over the years have gotten their first taste of 0.0 in Providence. And it provides a relatively safe, welcoming home for corps or individuals that want to try 0.0 but don't want to join up with an alliance/bloc or become renters.
For a duder that post a whole lot in Providence related threads your ignorance is all the more puzzeling.
Aralis was never into "yer old english" type IGS roleplaying, nor did he say much in local.
His approach was Roleplay thru ingame action aka Deliverance Project"
And your "lol you called us rich" plus some other comments kinda tells me you are like a fair chunk of Providence dwellers, incapable of being creative or developing methods of making isk etc.
Aralis was amazingly bad at gauging the ability of Citadel, thinking everyone was as committed as he was.
Manny/AAA did him a service showing him just how wrong he was. What left Providence with Aralis is the vibe of "Amarr in 0.0", but Equinox is holding on to the core roleplay; Deliverance.
The infighting and squabbles are starting to resemble the decadence that started to show at the end of Old Providence mk 1.
Don't agree with this... A lot of old timers have returned - been a lot of good fights lately and morale is actually pretty high. Yep some retarded inflated egos fucking around on the forums (but that has always been the case) - I am staying out of it...
Eq has stated the CVA 'line' clearly and what will probably happen again (as has happened in the past) is that one or other of the groups currently smacking each other stupidly will have enough and fuck off... and CVA will roll on...
Oh, I make money well enough, right up to the moment I manage to all of my possessions. That said, I've also been up north. Since all money (game and real) is only a representation of relative wealth, the holders are pretty space poor in the scheme of things. While I am probably as wealthy or more wealthy than the average eve player, I don't for a minute thing I can claim to be loaded since my buying power is far less than that of say, Zagdul or DBRB.
As I said, "I've only been in CVA a month". Sharing my experience is nowhere near the same as claiming a large body of historical knowledge. In my month long time as an actual member, I haven't seen any RP. That's pretty much all I've said about the subject.
Hey, if I bring gangs and small fleets to wherever you stage out of (where is that, anyway?) will you form up and have goodfites?
Sure! I die spectacularly well. Not sure about gangs, though as I'd probably disband it by accident LOL. I'll give you a hint where to find me. It's part of the title of this thread.
What sorts of 'squabbles' have been going on between the holders?
On another note, how's relations between the holders and -A- been lately? I know it's largely irrelevant now that they're tied up in a war, but generally speaking, what's the tone like there?
Let me put it this way, both -A- and CVA are FAMOUS for their non-existing diplomacy skills. That being said, I overheard someone say that -A- had asked CVA to show for that 49- timer, and CVA said "No!".
So who knows, -A- had the nerve to ask, but it was a clear no at the same time which is understandable.
I think if people wanna brawl with CVA and provi-dudes going to pi5 and then i7s, or just G7AQ. That should get you atleast reported in intel well enough.
CVA values independence over pretty much all else. As much people bitch about the superbloc nips and naps, CVA stands out as one of the very few space holders who stay out of alliance blobs.
I had also heard that -A- requested CVA show up at 49- but I dismissed it as a rumor since I couldn't really pinpoint a source (IIRC someone said it on TEST comms or jabber during the final timer fight that -A- didn't show up to)
I think it's for the best that they opted not to. Better not to get involved in blocs; they're really one of the few quasi-independent alliances left, or at least just in a very small bloc. I doubt -A- will do anything to retaliate but who knows.
Really though I just asked as, from what I understand, the early 2010 war when "Old Provi" was unseated was sparked by LFA trying to take territory in northern Catch, -A- said no and took D-G, and then stuff happened and the rest is history. IIRC, CVA didn't want to go on an offensive but LFA started taking space anyway, and -A- got mad that CVA didn't yank their leash?
Then I recall a long while later, -A- handed CVA the better part of the NNLX-K constellation in Catch and some leadership figures in the alliance regretted kicking CVA out of Provi. (which they still have, though ROL has a system in it)
Correct me on any/all of that if I'm wrong, my memory sucks and I wasn't too heavily involved in Eve during some of that. But yeah, I was just curious how things were going between the two. Just an odd relationship. And I was inquiring about any "squabbles" because the bloc coming apart is the last thing Providence needs. I think they've learned from history that they need to keep their allies on a short leash.
From all the stuff I've read you sound pretty accurate Aokisensei. I think now -A- and Provi folk just farm each other for small to medium gang warfare.
Just hitchin' a ride on my older brother's ass
Is reasonably accurate. LFA were ambitious and pushed at Aralis to help them take more space. That said Aralis himself was always happy to 'push' CVA out of its comfort zone from time to time (usually for good reason and successfully). In this case most CVA old timers (including me) felt that provoking -A- at that point was just silly as we really had no significant sov warfare experience. However Aralis was the boss and had made calls before that people disagreed with and subsequently turned out well, so most people backed him - even if they felt it was a mistake. Also it is worth pointing out that we had poked -A- sov before and what usually happened was Evil Thug would kick our arses and take a couple of our systems to demonstrate how awesome -A- were and the leave it at that after teaching us a lesson - many assumed that 'worst case' that would be the same again.
The gigantic disaster this time was that the CVA attack coincided with a Goons attack on -A-. This was deliberately 'spun up' in the forums (particularly by Butterdog / Ushra'Khan) into a HUGE DEAL and from what I can tell a lot of ordinary -A- members took great offence at the idea that CVA had apparently abandoned its neutrality to team up with Goons to 'stab them in the back' so to speak (especially as -A- had been so generous in not abusing the CVA disbandment that happened a few months prior).
The fact is that CVA did not have an agreement with Goons. Yes some conversations probably did happen in the same way that -A- may have asked us to show up in -49 (I don't know if that is true or not as am not doing anything 'leadership related' at the moment). However, the plan for the attack for more living space in Northern Catch had been discussed and debated for months prior to Goons being on the scene.
While it might be the case that Aralis may have decided to make use of the Goons offensive for our own purposes there was never any formal agreement between us and Goons.
Nevertheless this is not how it came across on the forums (here included) (we were gigantically out PR'd) so subsequently -A- went into complete revenge mode...
Even then there was an offer from -A- diplos to cease and desist after the DG disaster but it was framed in such a way that CVA could not accept it as it put limitations on our freedom to operate as we saw fit in the future - and as others have pointed out we value our 'independence'.
Most other 0.0 alliances would probably (and pragmatically) accepted the deal to save their space and then broken whatever agreement they had made at some later (more convenient) point. The thing is Aralis never broke his word so could not accept any deal which would tie his hands...
That may sound stupid in an 'internet spaceships' game but is how Aralis and CVA rolled!
...and in relation to the 'squabbles' it is not so much issues between CVA and Holders at the moment.
Most of the Holders now are pretty sane and most contribute significantly to the 'Deliverance' project (aka NRDS Provi).
The squabbles being referred to now are more internal CVA issues driven by a few 'leet' groups who are (according to others in the alliance) disrespecting the history and roleplay heritage of CVA and pushing a more 0.0 typical 'shape up or ship out' agenda.
This is opposed by older CVA members (particularly those who did not fuck off after we were ejected from Provi the first time) and the more RP oriented groups (who also tend to be more casual) who feel that RP / NRDS / Deliverance is what defines CVA and makes us unique. Their viewpoint generally is: "You knew this was what CVA was when you joined, so either play along or ship out".
It is a tension that comes to the surfaces every few years and usually ends when the individuals or corporations pushing for change (who generally think they are indispensable) get frustrated and leave. Or alternatively (as sometimes happens - often prompted by outside pressure) everyone calms down, realises they are being gigantic pricks to each other and that it is still possible to improve the alliance while still maintaining its RP roots. Then normal service is resumed for a while.
Has happened before - will happen again. Too much drama for a game (but I guess that is what makes it special)!
The "leet" group isnt really pushing for what you say. Providence is the same as back in the days except they (CVA) have lost their Code of conduct. If you want to be part of a solid pvp outfit while giving no fucks bout conduct, you would leave CVA, like many has done over time. To me CVA is set apart from the rest of EVE thru; NRDS, Deliverance Project and a bare MINIMUM public conduct. If you want to be a sperging troller you can join pretty much any other 0.0 alliance in the game.
CVA used to set the standard and enforce it back in the days. Not anymore tbh.
As much as it pains me to say it, Codo in Yulai Federation is one of the few that keeps the old ways with regards to conduct (if you ignore him being quite the loonie in many other areas).
Actually you are right as many old timers also push for 'better standards' - so it is not so black and white. And I agree with you on a 'code of conduct' - which is tied into the RP way of looking at things. Unfortunately many of those who consider themselves indispensable to the alliance right now laugh at 'lolRP' and 'codes of conduct' and don't realise those two things are what makes CVA unique and gives it its resilience...
Isn't the "leet" group mainly just pissing off the leaders by doing good job of provoking -A-? That's the only friction I've noticed in alliance chat (tho I'm not really active and in the wrong timezone to see much). It really doesn't seem that serious to me.
Don't think Eq gives two hoots about pissing off -A- or not. There is some fricton betwen the lolrpers and those who seem to want to do whatever they want (including deliberately going out of their way to piss other ally members off). But you are right I don't think it is that significant/serious in the grand scheme of things...
The Eden Trolling International Corporation is trying hard to get us invaded or provoke a schism, but to no avail thanks to most of us being lost in Zombieland or Karkand.
To be honest, comitting to NRDS is already a huge part of roleplaying, and a very time consuming matter if you try to convince all guests and allies of it#s importance and keep your own people on a leash at the same time. I may or may not have given out false information about our ROE in the past, but never on purpose..
I repeatedly try to want to live in providence because its different, but i constantly get annoyed by retarded blues/neutrals and tend to just go 'fuck this'.
Being different is good.
Heard from some people that there was drama with a couple northern provi holders, but in the end it was pretty minor and more blown out of proportion than anything.
That may or may not be what other people were referring to. It seems like that happens sometimes though, just with any coalition in Eve. There will be disagreements, then someone will be forced out, or just leave the area. (the Broken Toys thing for example)
[ 2013.05.11 03:30:09 ] Jace Vorrin > THEMICK MCCOY SENDS HIS REGARDS :smug:
If they just asked, that was a pretty significant concession from -A-. Their usual approach to diplomacy tends to the be threaten people.
I can't for the life of me remember the details of the deal that -A- offered at the time, but I do recall being suportive of Aralis' position in rejecting it. It really was terrible diplomacy though: -A- offered a deal that CVA would never accept, CVA rejected it and -A- were left with no choice but to burn Providence.
I am kind of glad I had the opportunity to die on my feet, as it were - FCON did try their damnedest to fight for 9-FOB. Every player should have the chance to fight to last rather than slink quietly into the night.
Just once though. I mean, doing it again would be masochistic.
The words vegetable garden come to mind.
The 9-F0B battle was hella fun. We were so close to delaying it being taken.
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